10273 réponses à ce sujet

[KitsuneRommel]

Terror_K wrote...

That's even stupider than breathing masks protecting you from the effects of exposure to space, normal clothes stopping bullets and storing a Geth in the A.I. core of your ship.

Clothing is an artistic licence just like chainmail bikinis. About the Geth. It might be that the AI core is the best shielded place in the ship. After all if he wanted to try to hack the ship he could use any of the terminals around.

Besides not even ME1 is sensible about that when it comes to old abandoned mines. I don't know about you but I'd keep my helmet on in those cases (where are they keeping the helmets anyway?)

[Lumikki]

Terror_K wrote...

When you all pile into a shuttle at the worst time and go absolutely nowhere just so Collectors can attack The Normandy. That's even stupider than breathing masks protecting you from the effects of exposure to space, normal clothes stopping bullets and storing a Geth in the A.I. core of your ship.

You are right, ME2 story was not so well writen, it could have done better. So, You are disapointed to it. I was not disapointed, but I do also see that it could have been better. I hope they do better in ME3.

In general ways both ME games had they good and bad points. In the end both of them where excelent games. Lets hope ME3 will be better and they learned from both games. They tried to fix some ME1 mistakes with ME2, but they did go too far in some stuff.

I think three biggest problems in ME2 has compared to ME1:

1. Too simplified squad customation, like weapons, armors, powers/skill choises and modications.
2. Too many squad members related missions, what left main story little weak.
3. The mineral mining system.

I think two biggest problems in ME1 has compared to ME2:

1. Inventory system with alot of junk items did not work so well.
2. Combat system wasn't so good, it's like pistol was the best choise to everyting. Just run and shoot them style. No real tactics was needed, until special bigger mob situations.

Modifié par Lumikki, 18 mai 2010 - 09:39 .

[uberdowzen]

Terror_K wrote...

It's a lore change however that has created plot holes, mostly in relation to Jacob's father and Zaeed (who himself has a backstory that seems contradictory and doesn't quite gel, which is why I choose to believe its mostly BS), on top of the fact that its just such a flimsy idea that itself is filled with holes and ridiculousness.

Yeah, I picked up on the thermal clips being dropped on Jacob's Loyalty mission, but what's wrong with Zaeed's?

When you all pile into a shuttle at the worst time and go absolutely nowhere just so Collectors can attack The Normandy. That's even stupider than breathing masks protecting you from the effects of exposure to space, normal clothes stopping bullets and storing a Geth in the A.I. core of your ship.

Yeah, that'd work if you were allowed to go on one mission with just the shuttle, otherwise it doesn't really work. On the other hand, Bioware have never been great at team organisation (in Jade Empire, your party of up to nine companions packs into one tiny flyer) so it's not like this is something that they haven't done before.

Also, those last three things are just nitpicking. And yet again, they're not plot holes.

[uberdowzen]

Also, I suspect the reason there are so many more plot holes in ME2 than in ME1 is that the people who dislike ME2 are going out of their way to find them. I'm not the one to do it (my brain just skims over plot holes in anything for some reason) but I suspect if someone went over the whole of ME1 they'd find just as many glaring plot holes.

[Lumikki]

uberdowzen wrote...

Also, I suspect the reason there are so many more plot holes in ME2 than in ME1 is that the people who dislike ME2 are going out of their way to find them. I'm not the one to do it (my brain just skims over plot holes in anything for some reason) but I suspect if someone went over the whole of ME1 they'd find just as many glaring plot holes.

That's how I see it too.

There is different between first time player playing game and notice that there is something totaly wrong here in story plot, like what the hell just happen. Then there is people who after playing game get disapointed and then starts to complain about every small detail. It's good that we find possible problems and give feedback, but there is also limit where it goes beyond reason. When player just complain anything what they can, to justify they dislike or liking of something else.

Modifié par Lumikki, 18 mai 2010 - 10:35 .

[CroGamer002]

Lumikki wrote...

uberdowzen wrote...

Also, I suspect the reason there are so many more plot holes in ME2 than in ME1 is that the people who dislike ME2 are going out of their way to find them. I'm not the one to do it (my brain just skims over plot holes in anything for some reason) but I suspect if someone went over the whole of ME1 they'd find just as many glaring plot holes.

That's how I see it too.

There is different between first time player playing game and notice that there is something totaly wrong here in story plot, like what the hell just happen. Then there is people who after playing game get disapointed and then starts to complain about every small detail. It's good that we find possible problems and give feedback, but there is also limit where it goes beyond reason. When player just complain anything what they can, to justify they dislike or liking of something else.

I could give top 10 list of plotholes from both games and most of them would be minor.
But since many of them are spoilers I won't do it here.

[Zahxia]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

BTW, I see very few actual "plot holes" in the entire Mass Effect story to date. Now Dragon Age, that's a different story. You have to give Mass Effect a lot of credit, at least they don't have to use Epilogue slides at the end.

Mass Effect does a great job standing on it's own in-game story.

Just my opinion.

Mass Effect 2 didn't have anything to stand up on. It relied entirely on fan service as well as novels and comics only a percentage of Mass Effect players have read. The characters are strong but ultimately the antagonists fall flat for a few key reasons:

1) They only resonate with those who read the novels
2) The developers blabbing about Shepard's death months beforehand. No one took it seriously and instead brushed it aside as something that simply let you change Shepards looks and class. It took something personal and powerful and made it as mundane as looting a corpse.
3)While Saren's big plan didn't hold up to scrutiny in ME1 the Collector's plan is mind-numbing in comparison. They're making a _______ ______ out of _______ _______ for crying out loud. Not only is that pointlessly convoluted and unfeasable but goes against everything established  in ME1.(No spoilers forum fill the blanks yourself)
4) They lack the presence or personality of ME1s antagonists. When your enemy is basically a bunch of drones people will treat them as target practice and nothing more. The Geth were also pervasive in ME1s galaxy you not only confronted them in main storyline but you occasionally bumped into their other plans while doing sidequests. Then there's Harbringer who is only revealed in the final cutscene.

It's no wonder Harbringer is now nothing more than a meme.

[Terror_K]

uberdowzen wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

It's a lore change however that has created plot holes, mostly in relation to Jacob's father and Zaeed (who himself has a backstory that seems contradictory and doesn't quite gel, which is why I choose to believe its mostly BS), on top of the fact that its just such a flimsy idea that itself is filled with holes and ridiculousness.

Yeah, I picked up on the thermal clips being dropped on Jacob's Loyalty mission, but what's wrong with Zaeed's?

He has at least one old story where he refers to his old gun using up almost all his thermal clips; a gun that doesn't have thermal clips in a story that took place before they supposedly existed. Aside from that, I find it rather hard to believe that any human, let alone Zaeed, formed The Blue Suns all the way back in a time when humans were hardly on the galactic scene.

When you all pile into a shuttle at the worst time and go absolutely nowhere just so Collectors can attack The Normandy. That's even stupider than breathing masks protecting you from the effects of exposure to space, normal clothes stopping bullets and storing a Geth in the A.I. core of your ship.

Yeah, that'd work if you were allowed to go on one mission with just the shuttle, otherwise it doesn't really work. On the other hand, Bioware have never been great at team organisation (in Jade Empire, your party of up to nine companions packs into one tiny flyer) so it's not like this is something that they haven't done before.

Also, those last three things are just nitpicking. And yet again, they're not plot holes.

I didn't say they were plot holes. Those last three are just bad writing and/or design. ME1 set up what seemed like a fairly plausible universe, but there are a few small factors in ME2 that step slightly into the bounds of bad modern action movies. Nothing overly major, as most still holds up fairly well, but there's little niggles like that which make ME2 seem a little farcical and as if they were going for style over substance in some areas.

[CroGamer002]

Terror_K wrote...

uberdowzen wrote...

Terror_K
wrote...

It's a lore change however that has created plot holes,
mostly in relation to Jacob's father and Zaeed (who himself has a
backstory that seems contradictory and doesn't quite gel, which is why I
choose to believe its mostly BS), on top of the fact that its just such
a flimsy idea that itself is filled with holes and
ridiculousness.

Yeah, I picked up on the thermal clips
being dropped on Jacob's Loyalty mission, but what's wrong with
Zaeed's?

He has at least one old story where he refers to
his old gun using up almost all his thermal clips; a gun that doesn't
have thermal clips in a story that took place before they supposedly
existed. Aside from that, I find it rather hard to believe that any
human, let alone Zaeed, formed The Blue Suns all the way back in a time
when humans were hardly on the galactic scene.

Then Shepherd becoming Spectre is plothole.

Modifié par Mesina2, 18 mai 2010 - 11:29 .

[Iakus]

LimberRain wrote...

Why are a lot of people attacking the final boss? They made it a VERY BIG point in ME1 to point out that the logic of the reapers is seriously warped/unknowable by our standards. How can we expect to understand the logic of organic machine creatures that have existed for 10's of millions of years? Maybe the first reaper was built by a madman and imprinted with an unstable personality. Maybe they are just crazy.... I do not see why that is an impossibility

Because once we figured out what the Conduit was in ME 1, What Sovereign was planning on doing made sense.  The motives are still a mystery, warped/unknowable logic and all.  Still, crazy, not stupid.  In ME 2 , the Collectors' project still makes no sense.  What were the Collectors trying to accomplish?  How does this help bring back the Reapers?  How in fact were they planning on finishing it?  Oh, and why did the tube thingees'  armor thingees keep turning on and off?  What is this, some kind of video game?

[Burdokva]

Ugh, can't wait for my exams to pass and I have more time after work - I've been watching old Mass Effect videos on YouTube the last few days and I got that urge to play it again. After two full runs of Mass Effect 2, I can't force myself for a third one. Not right now, at least, and not until I beat the original again.



Even though I know every quest and uncharted world like the back of my hand. Probably making the same choices as the five times I've already played it, just so I can make another clone of my original Shepard for the sequel. I guess it's a testament how strong the first one was, especially compared to a great sequel. It's was an instant classic.



Just watch the intro in HD and tell me you don't feel the need to play that again!:







iakus, to your question, some time ago I posted a theary (over at the Storyline forum) that the Reapers are actually concious machines that are... er, created (?) by an entire civilization. Essentially, a single biomechanical being that's the entire culture and history of a spacefaringrace ("we are each a nation, independent, free of all weakness"). Whatever their ultimate goal is, I don't think any organic can properly understand it, as the Reapers are fundamentally diffrent beings than us.

[Iakus]

uberdowzen wrote...

Also, I suspect the reason there are so many more plot holes in ME2 than in ME1 is that the people who dislike ME2 are going out of their way to find them. I'm not the one to do it (my brain just skims over plot holes in anything for some reason) but I suspect if someone went over the whole of ME1 they'd find just as many glaring plot holes.

There is likely truth to this.  i said a while back that if a story is entertaining, I can forgive a lot in a game.  And I did not find the story here entertaining.

It might be easier to explain my position if I said what I would have found more entertaining.  To me , ME2 would have been light-years better if they had:

Cut the number of recruits in half.

Some of the recruitment/loyalty quests handled differently based on ME 1 choices. For example, if you Paragoned Garrus in ME 1, he'd have gone back to the Council nad become a Spectre himself.  Otherwise, he'd become a vigilante. 

Another example:  Thane's target could have depended on who you did or did not help in ME 1: Nassana Dantius, Helena Blake, Schells, Mallene Calis, Ethan Jeong, or a "none of the above" option of some asari

Some quests could be pretty much the same with some voicover work being different, others could be complete alternate missions.  It just seems wrong that the only substantive difference choices make are a few really quick sidequests.

Add three "Investigate the Collectors" mission before Horizon.  Gather evidence, tech for Mordin to study, rumors and info, that sort of stuff.

Post Horizon:  Add six "Take the fight to the Collectors" quests.  Wherin you fight the Collectors in the Terminus systems.  Disrupt their trades, blow up bases, hack their computers.  Basically pushing them back through the Omega 4 Relay.

Longer Suicide Mission, putting skills of more squad mates to use.  And yes, different boss, please.

Granted this is really just armchair quarterbacking and it's easy to say what you want when you have no idea how much in time or resources it would take, or even if it's feasable.  Still, this is the sort of game I'd expected as a true sequel to ME 1

[Iakus]

Burdokva wrote...

Ugh, can't wait for my exams to pass and I have more time after work - I've been watching old Mass Effect videos on YouTube the last few days and I got that urge to play it again. After two full runs of Mass Effect 2, I can't force myself for a third one. Not right now, at least, and not until I beat the original again.

Even though I know every quest and uncharted world like the back of my hand. Probably making the same choices as the five times I've already played it, just so I can make another clone of my original Shepard for the sequel. I guess it's a testament how strong the first one was, especially compared to a great sequel. It's was an instant classic.

Just watch the intro in HD and tell me you don't feel the need to play that again!:



iakus, to your question, some time ago I posted a theary (over at the Storyline forum) that the Reapers are actually concious machines that are... er, created (?) by an entire civilization. Essentially, a single biomechanical being that's the entire culture and history of a spacefaringrace ("we are each a nation, independent, free of all weakness"). Whatever their ultimate goal is, I don't think any organic can properly understand it, as the Reapers are fundamentally diffrent beings than us.

Yeah, playing Me 1 wants me t play ME 1 again.  ME2... makes me want to play ME 1 again.  As Garrus would say "That's probably not a good thing"

I think I recall reading a theory like that, but that doesn't answer the question of "Why now?"  It would tip the Alliance to the Collectors' loyalties, and it's unlikely they'd get enough materials without invading Citadel space.  As it is, the Alliance is already suspicious.  Just slow to act.

[oshilee]

I loved the game, but here some story issues i didnt think was that great.



- The politics of ME1 for some reason know longer matter in ME2. Eg, If u go back and get your spector status back, it doesnt matter, you have to follow rules of other planets, and no1 cares if your a spector.



- I thought gaining the respect of the councial and having a human on it would change ALOT, but, they still dont listen to humans, and basicly ignore him. (i choose the commander to be on it. it may be different if you chose the other one.) So it was kind of pointless.



- The overal story, although good. I feel didnt really add anything beyond extra detail here and there. For example, (talking about the story, beyond characters) if you skipped ME2, and went from ME1 to 3, it wonted really matter to much, Uve done nothing to stop the reapers.

I dont know if i explaned the third point that well; sorry D:



urm, all i got so far. All just opinion. :3

[TJSolo]

uberdowzen wrote...

Also, I suspect the reason there are so many more plot holes in ME2 than in ME1 is that the people who dislike ME2 are going out of their way to find them. I'm not the one to do it (my brain just skims over plot holes in anything for some reason) but I suspect if someone went over the whole of ME1 they'd find just as many glaring plot holes.

A person could go out of their way to find holes in swiss cheese too. In other words an active search is not creating the holes.
You can continue to raising suspecting notions of how many plot holes a person could find in ME1 and 2 but ME1 is not some archaic language or practice peopel only have suspicions of how it worked. ME1 is fully accessible, it  has less plotholes then ME2.

[bas273]

I'm willing to forgive many bad parts about Mass Effect 2, like the storyline, romance build-ups, planet scanning... but there's one thing that really bothers me.
What's the point of being able to receive emails if you can't send them? Why the hell can't I send an email to Ashley if she's my LI? If this would be real, I would kick Miranda and Jacob off the ship, send an email to Ashley that I'm going to pick her up and revoke my Spectre status at the Citadel.
The only reason Bioware we are not able to do this is because Bioware wants us to be TIM's slave and cheat on Ashley after Horizon.
There you go. Lack of freedom.
I know this has been brought up a lot of times. Srry, I'm just a bit annoyed.

Modifié par bas273, 18 mai 2010 - 07:26 .

[KitsuneRommel]

bas273 wrote...

There you go. Lack of freedom.
I know this has been brought up a lot of times. Srry, I'm just a bit annoyed.

My current renegade adept didn't want any of the aliens on board the alliance ship. Apprently being a spectre doesn't mean you don't have to obey politicians and you have to buy your own spectre gear. What a rip off.

[TJSolo]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

bas273 wrote...

There you go. Lack of freedom.
I know this has been brought up a lot of times. Srry, I'm just a bit annoyed.

My current renegade adept didn't want any of the aliens on board the alliance ship. Apprently being a spectre doesn't mean you don't have to obey politicians and you have to buy your own spectre gear. What a rip off.

Having to buy spectre gear is such a downer good thing this aspect is improved in ME2. Cerberus spent +4 billion credits on the Lazarus Pjoect and SR-2 yet Shepard is still buying star charts, upgrades, and N7 parts.
Improvement? IMPROVEMENT!

[Iakus]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

bas273 wrote...

There you go. Lack of freedom.
I know this has been brought up a lot of times. Srry, I'm just a bit annoyed.

My current renegade adept didn't want any of the aliens on board the alliance ship. Apprently being a spectre doesn't mean you don't have to obey politicians and you have to buy your own spectre gear. What a rip off.

While Cerberus not only won't sell you gear, you have to make your own upgrades and scavenge the raw materials to build the gear yourself  to boot 

[Ecael]

TJSolo wrote...

KitsuneRommel wrote...

bas273 wrote...

There you go. Lack of freedom.
I know this has been brought up a lot of times. Srry, I'm just a bit annoyed.

My current renegade adept didn't want any of the aliens on board the alliance ship. Apprently being a spectre doesn't mean you don't have to obey politicians and you have to buy your own spectre gear. What a rip off.

Having to buy spectre gear is such a downer good thing this aspect is improved in ME2. Cerberus spent +4 billion credits on the Lazarus Pjoect and SR-2 yet Shepard is still buying star charts, upgrades, and N7 parts.
Improvement? IMPROVEMENT!

Shepard should have joined the STG.

[uberdowzen]

TJSolo wrote...

A person could go out of their way to find holes in swiss cheese too. In other words an active search is not creating the holes.
You can continue to raising suspecting notions of how many plot holes a person could find in ME1 and 2 but ME1 is not some archaic language or practice peopel only have suspicions of how it worked. ME1 is fully accessible, it  has less plotholes then ME2.

My point is that the only major plot hole in ME2 is the part where everyone piles into the shuttle to go nowhere. I'm vaguely willing to forgive this as a) there is a theory that this is a flashback to before the last mission, doesn't really work but is plausible and it's there to set up a situation not to resolve one. I'm less willing to forgive plot holes ine ME1, for example, how does the Normandy get back to the citadel so quickly after Shepherd reached the conduit on Ilos. I personally have a bigger problem with that plot hole because it's trying to resolve a situation whereas the one in ME2 is creating a situation. They're both unacceptable, but I find it easier to forgive ME2s. And also I hadn't noticed either of those plot holes until someone pointed them out to me.

[KitsuneRommel]

TJSolo wrote...

Having to buy spectre gear is such a downer good thing this aspect is improved in ME2. Cerberus spent +4 billion credits on the Lazarus Pjoect and SR-2 yet Shepard is still buying star charts, upgrades, and N7 parts.
Improvement? IMPROVEMENT!

But they also pay you!

I fly around the galaxy opening boxes and looting corpses only to sell the stuff to a guy (who's apparently extremely wealthy) on my own ship so that I could afford something good. Yeah, I'm suspending my disbelief. It's just a game.

[uberdowzen]

I'd also like to point out that the latest patch for the Xbox version of ME2 (soon coming to PC) fixes the planet scanning.

[DarthRomance]

bas273 wrote...

I'm willing to forgive many bad parts about Mass Effect 2, like the storyline, romance build-ups, planet scanning... but there's one thing that really bothers me.
What's the point of being able to receive emails if you can't send them? Why the hell can't I send an email to Ashley if she's my LI? If this would be real, I would kick Miranda and Jacob off the ship, send an email to Ashley that I'm going to pick her up and revoke my Spectre status at the Citadel.
The only reason Bioware we are not able to do this is because Bioware wants us to be TIM's slave and cheat on Ashley after Horizon.
There you go. Lack of freedom.
I know this has been brought up a lot of times. Srry, I'm just a bit annoyed.

That would be cool if you could do that and carry on a text dialogue or message system with your girlfriend.  Oh well. 

[TJSolo]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

Having to buy spectre gear is such a downer good thing this aspect is improved in ME2. Cerberus spent +4 billion credits on the Lazarus Pjoect and SR-2 yet Shepard is still buying star charts, upgrades, and N7 parts.
Improvement? IMPROVEMENT!

But they also pay you!

I fly around the galaxy opening boxes and looting corpses only to sell the stuff to a guy (who's apparently extremely wealthy) on my own ship so that I could afford something good. Yeah, I'm suspending my disbelief. It's just a game.

Well I guess ME1 needs a mission complete screen inorder to tell players who is paying them after every completed assignment.

The guy on the ship runs a store; he is able to buy/sell things for profits. That is how stores work.
Oh you are opening boxes and looting corpse, for shame. It is a good thing ME2 improved that. Now you get to hack a corpse's bank account for credts, steal for safes, and still pick up weapons.
Improvement? IMPROVEMENT!