10273 réponses à ce sujet

[Su33nf]

Darth Drago wrote...

Su33nf wrote...

Well, to be somewhat fair about that last point... the collectors were suppost to be largely unknown and rarely seen..... the geth had a huge force and were everywhere....

Yet everyone you talk to knows about the Collectors (quite well actually) but C-Sec hasn’t a clue what a Geth looks like? Its also somewhat implied in the game that there could be more collector ships unless that is just more bad writing. The Collectors are also active during the game since at least once you hear one of your crew mentioning another colony that got hit.

Lol, yes.... C-Sec allowing you to walk around with a geth and not doing anything about it... not even saying anything was highly disappointing..... there should have been something said... only in my case... Anderson said...
"Geth arn't a threat anymore, thats why you can walk around with your thorpy"

I'm like come on... the developers could have done something with that senirario

but.... it is mention quite a few times in the game that very few people have met the collectors... and that they were rarely seen....  one dialog was like, they thought the collectors were a scare tactic that was told so humans wouldn't go out in the terminious systems....

[Su33nf]

bjdbwea wrote...

Su33nf wrote...

The thing I don't get is... if you start a new game without import... why did the developers make everything renegade and the anti-hero route.....

That's an interesting question indeed. It's almost as if they think that a majority of their players plays these games like Serious Sam, without caring for anyone nor the story. I hope that's not true.

Yeah, the only game out of Kotor 1 & 2 and Mass Effect 1 & 2 that I completed an evil character on was Kotor 1... because it felt like the story really changed a lot.... 

Kotor 1 - Saving the Galaxy or Ruling the Galaxy.... 

since the difference wasn't quite that drastic with the others... When playing through the story of mass effect 1 & 2, I always took the paragon route because it just seemed like it would fit the story more.

[spacehamsterZH]

Su33nf wrote...
The thing I don't get is... if you start a new game without import... why did the developers make everything renegade and the anti-hero route.....

My guess is they went with whatever choices had the least number of characters from ME1 alive so that new players wouldn't constantly run into people that acted like they're supposed to know them. Makes sense. It's, y'know, for n00bs, so if you're not a n00b, don't use it.

Although the point could be made that your welcome on Tuchanka is actually MORE confusing for new players this way because a lot of characters are talking about something you don't remember doing. That part always struck me as odd. But maybe the idea was to reward people for playing ME1 and making certain choices.

[Su33nf]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

Su33nf wrote...
The thing I don't get is... if you start a new game without import... why did the developers make everything renegade and the anti-hero route.....

My guess is they went with whatever choices had the least number of characters from ME1 alive so that new players wouldn't constantly run into people that acted like they're supposed to know them. Makes sense. It's, y'know, for n00bs, so if you're not a n00b, don't use it.

Although the point could be made that your welcome on Tuchanka is actually MORE confusing for new players this way because a lot of characters are talking about something you don't remember doing. That part always struck me as odd. But maybe the idea was to reward people for playing ME1 and making certain choices.

Hmm, I guess that does make sense.... just it makes the game kind of a bit more hollow on the reneged path.... but I mean regardless of what you do... you still run into liara, and ashley or that other guy and they still act like they know shaperd right? and new players wouldn't really know them ether.. right?

Just think ME2 should have had a better character creation kit that would allow a player to review a bit of the info on ME1's story and fully pick between the decisions one might have made in the first game....

[Iakus]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

smudboy wrote...

I, and a talented team of cheerleaders spent 5 days with that magnifying glass, and could only find Mordin, a few commentaries by Okeer, and because TIM said so.

And the ME1 squad was with you because...?

Ashley:  Eden Prime survivor, reassigned to the Normandy

Kaiden: Officer of the Normandy, part of Eden Prime shore party

Tali:  discovered hard proof linking Saren and Benezia to the Geth as well as first mention of the Reapers.  Stays with you because anything involving the geth is a Bad Thing and wants to help stop it.

Garrus:  Already suspected  Saren was dirty and was conducting is own investigation.  You two join forces.

Liara: Benezia's daughter and Prothean expert. rescued by Shepard to deny Saren her Prothean expertise.  She also stays because she wants to know why Benezia is working for Saren and because se is fascinated by Shep's contact with the Prothean beacon (as well as potential LI)

Wrex:  Was hired by the Shadow Broker to kill Fist after Fist betrayed Tali to Saren (wow that came out a bit convoluted).  You find out later Wrex had worked a job for Saren once, and every other merc on that job ended up dead a sort time later. 

Every member of the ME 1 squad has a link to Saren or the geth.

[bjdbwea]

Su33nf wrote...

Hmm, I guess that does make sense.... just it makes the game kind of a bit more hollow on the reneged path.... but I mean regardless of what you do... you still run into liara, and ashley or that other guy and they still act like they know shaperd right? and new players wouldn't really know them ether.. right?

Right. You wouldn't really understand Star Wars either if you didn't watch the episodes in order. BioWare promised to make a trilogy, so they should just have expected that everyone had played part 1 first, or at least informed themselves about what was going on.

The game would have been a lot better, and they could have kept the whole old crew too. And I actually think this was the intention, but at some point someone (probably EA) insisted on significant changes to draw in new players, especially shooter fans and casual gamers.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 22 mai 2010 - 08:33 .

[finnithe]

iakus wrote...

KitsuneRommel wrote...

smudboy wrote...

I, and a talented team of cheerleaders spent 5 days with that magnifying glass, and could only find Mordin, a few commentaries by Okeer, and because TIM said so.

And the ME1 squad was with you because...?

Ashley:  Eden Prime survivor, reassigned to the Normandy

Kaiden: Officer of the Normandy, part of Eden Prime shore party

Tali:  discovered hard proof linking Saren and Benezia to the Geth as well as first mention of the Reapers.  Stays with you because anything involving the geth is a Bad Thing and wants to help stop it.

Garrus:  Already suspected  Saren was dirty and was conducting is own investigation.  You two join forces.

Liara: Benezia's daughter and Prothean expert. rescued by Shepard to deny Saren her Prothean expertise.  She also stays because she wants to know why Benezia is working for Saren and because se is fascinated by Shep's contact with the Prothean beacon (as well as potential LI)

Wrex:  Was hired by the Shadow Broker to kill Fist after Fist betrayed Tali to Saren (wow that came out a bit convoluted).  You find out later Wrex had worked a job for Saren once, and every other merc on that job ended up dead a sort time later. 

Every member of the ME 1 squad has a link to Saren or the geth.

I really love this part of ME1, because looking back, it never made any sense at all.

Ashley, Kaiden and Wrex make sense, as the first two are ordered to stay with you and the latter is a veteran merc who I would want on my team. Liara is a Prothean expert, so I would want her on my ship, though I wonder where she got her combat training.

But Tali? She's an extremely young Quarian. Sure she has reasons to go against the Geth, but its entirely unrealistic that she's so gifted in combat by that point. I also wonder why the Council so readily accepted her evidence.

Garrus too is just a C-Sec agent, and also pretty young.

Shepard's part of the Alliance as well, I wonder why they wouldn't give him a few more soldiers. He was after all, protecting their colonies. I felt that Bioware was trying to hammer home that there was no one who believed you in ME1, but the Alliance certainly seemed willing to provide you with huge amounts of funding, as well as the Normandy SR-1 and all its crew. 

I also don't understand why people hate the ME2 UI. It's a bit more minimalistic, and I wish they had added the minimap, but besides that and the identifier showing exactly how much shields your teammates have left, nothing is omitted. 

[Iakus]

bjdbwea wrote...

Right. You wouldn't really understand Star Wars either if you didn't watch the episodes in order. BioWare promised to make a trilogy, so they should just have expected that everyone had played part 1 first, or at least informed themselves about what was going on.

QFT

The game would have been a lot better, and they could have kept the whole old crew too. And I actually think this was the intention, but at some point someone (probably EA) insisted on significant changes to draw in new players, especially shooter fans and casual gamers.

I'm not too broken up over not having everyone back for ME 2, it's understandable if people move on, or they want to hold someting back for ME 3.  I would have appreciated a little more interaction with the old squad though. (They are your firnds after all)  Plus  I'm a little miffed that a certain person's (people's?) response to Shepard's reappearance.  I do think that they introduced a few too many new characters into the new squad.  Drew too much attention away from the threat.  And EA may have had a little something to say about their costuming choices...

[Mister Mida]

iakus wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

Right. You wouldn't really understand Star Wars either if you didn't watch the episodes in order. BioWare promised to make a trilogy, so they should just have expected that everyone had played part 1 first, or at least informed themselves about what was going on.

QFT

The game would have been a lot better, and they could have kept the whole old crew too. And I actually think this was the intention, but at some point someone (probably EA) insisted on significant changes to draw in new players, especially shooter fans and casual gamers.

I'm not too broken up over not having everyone back for ME 2, it's understandable if people move on, or they want to hold someting back for ME 3.  I would have appreciated a little more interaction with the old squad though. (They are your firnds after all)  Plus  I'm a little miffed that a certain person's (people's?) response to Shepard's reappearance.  I do think that they introduced a few too many new characters into the new squad.  Drew too much attention away from the threat.  And EA may have had a little something to say about their costuming choices...

I find it a bit unrealistic that your former crew of Mass Effect 1 didn't do something to continue Shepard's work. Instead of continueing to find some way to defeat the Reapers they all go their seperate ways like Mass Effect 1 never happened.

[bjdbwea]

You're right about there being too many companions. What was the point? If you have less companions, you can dedicate more attention to every single one (and except for Mordin they all could've used it), plus you might have more time for a better story.



They should've kept the whole ME 1 crew, add the Tali and Garrus romance, plus Jacob, Miranda and Mordin. Why? Not because they're my favourites, Jacob certainly isn't. But because they're the only ones relevant to the story. Would have added one new romance for male and female Shepard too, and overall that's more than enough.

[Mirthadrond]

Almost finished with my 1st ME2 run, and I got to say: gameplay wise, ME2 is better than ME1. I like the beefed up action.

Cant say I'm miss the massive inventory, but I miss the weapon mods themselves.

Ammo as a power? Not my favorite change. I'd rather see other skills/powers developed.

Like accuracy, weapon scanners, medicine...etc.



Miss the mako/exploration, but the planets were rather dull in ME1, so not a huge loss.

[Iakus]

finnithe wrote...

I really love this part of ME1, because looking back, it never made any sense at all.

Ashley, Kaiden and Wrex make sense, as the first two are ordered to stay with you and the latter is a veteran merc who I would want on my team. Liara is a Prothean expert, so I would want her on my ship, though I wonder where she got her combat training.

But Tali? She's an extremely young Quarian. Sure she has reasons to go against the Geth, but its entirely unrealistic that she's so gifted in combat by that point. I also wonder why the Council so readily accepted her evidence.

Garrus too is just a C-Sec agent, and also pretty young.

Shepard's part of the Alliance as well, I wonder why they wouldn't give him a few more soldiers. He was after all, protecting their colonies. I felt that Bioware was trying to hammer home that there was no one who believed you in ME1, but the Alliance certainly seemed willing to provide you with huge amounts of funding, as well as the Normandy SR-1 and all its crew. 

I also don't understand why people hate the ME2 UI. It's a bit more minimalistic, and I wish they had added the minimap, but besides that and the identifier showing exactly how much shields your teammates have left, nothing is omitted. 

Liara doesn't have a lot of combat training that I know of, as her skills list shows.  But she is a natural biotic (as all asari are)  If it seems a little odd that she suddenly knows how to use them in combat conditions, well, a wizard taught her

Tali was on her Pilgrimage, so she's old enough to be considered an adult by her people.  Quarians receive training and gifts of, among other things, weapons and armor before going on their Pilgrimage.  A trained soldier?  No.  A gifted specialist with self-defense training?  Why not? 

I figure the Council went over the data she found and deemed it genuine.

I always got the impression that Garrus was "middle management"  in C-Sec.  Not a rookie, but not a real power in the organization either.  C-Sec is a paramilitary operation, not just a police force (they deal with piracy and terrorist attacks, as well as street crime)  He is also former turian military.

The thing is, few people in ME 1 believed Shepard.  Technically, is mission was to hunt down a rogue Spectre and be quiet about it.  Thus one stealth ship, fully crewed, as a compromise to sending a fleet. 

[Mister Mida]

iakus wrote...

Liara doesn't have a lot of combat training that I know of, as her skills list shows.  But she is a natural biotic (as all asari are)  If it seems a little odd that she suddenly knows how to use them in combat conditions, well, a wizard taught her
 

When you talk to her in Mass Effect 1, she tells you that on occasion she ran into pirates and scavengers while doing her research and that her biotics were enough to handle them. So she had some practice at least before she and Shepard met.

[Iakus]

Mister Mida wrote...

I find it a bit unrealistic that your former crew of Mass Effect 1 didn't do something to continue Shepard's work. Instead of continueing to find some way to defeat the Reapers they all go their seperate ways like Mass Effect 1 never happened.

I got the impression that they wanted to, but no one would listen to them (yeah the universe took Stupid Pills, another thing that bugged me about ME 2)  Except for Wrex and Anderson,  no one was in a position to do anything about it.  And even they can only do so much.

[DarthRomance]

Garrus could not get ahead because he was damn hothead. He only cared about bringing down suspects which is why he is dedicated to tracking down Saren. He was clearly very skilled so makes a valuable asset to your team- former candidate for Spectre training even! Besides, Spectres work alone and in small groups. Yeah I am playing ME1 again so I know this stuff...

[Iakus]

DarthRomance wrote...

Garrus could not get ahead because he was damn hothead. He only cared about bringing down suspects which is why he is dedicated to tracking down Saren. He was clearly very skilled so makes a valuable asset to your team- former candidate for Spectre training even! Besides, Spectres work alone and in small groups. Yeah I am playing ME1 again so I know this stuff...

Yeah I forgot he was considered for Spectre candidacy.

I actually expected he would be a Spectre in ME 2 if you paragoned him.  Oh well.

[DarthRomance]

iakus wrote...

DarthRomance wrote...

Garrus could not get ahead because he was damn hothead. He only cared about bringing down suspects which is why he is dedicated to tracking down Saren. He was clearly very skilled so makes a valuable asset to your team- former candidate for Spectre training even! Besides, Spectres work alone and in small groups. Yeah I am playing ME1 again so I know this stuff...

Yeah I forgot he was considered for Spectre candidacy.

I actually expected he would be a Spectre in ME 2 if you paragoned him.  Oh well.

yeah that was the first thing I expected.  I guess maybe he was too much of a hothead to do what he said he was gonna do in ME1.  Or EA just forgot what happens in the first game.  I mean let's assume he is on the ship with you at the beginning (never saw him so don't know if he was or not) so the ship gets blown up.  My take is he would go into the Spectres, become one and try to find out about the Collectors out of his typical vendetta.  Instead he is just trying to track down lowly mafia guys.  I don't really agree with that direction so that was a disappointment.  

[Onyx Jaguar]

Adriano87 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Ecael wrote...

BTW, I'd prefer the first picture any day for ME3. Because, it's colder and grittier, more sci-fi-ish. Also the hud is more explicit and informative.

you're right, though the second has better graphic (and it doesn't matter) the first is more a glorious sci-fi

Also I support both (their mixture), Clips system and Cool-Down System for ME3 ... more thougher it be it'll be better 

The games need less hud if what you are going for is Sci-Fi

Or they should give an option to turn off the hud

Or use gameplay mechanics, different helmets/interfaces = different huds, no headwear = no hud

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 22 mai 2010 - 10:28 .

[Tempest]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

It makes me sad and nostalgic to think of all the cool things Wrex had to say, and then to think of what little conversation options the default squadmembers had available in ME2.

Only the major quests in ME1 give your squadmates something to talk about too. Pasting from another thread:

I just hit 29 (and now my Lift duration is 0.8 seconds longer!) on my
ME1 adept and I haven't done any of the 3 main worlds yet. You know what
the game has been about? Sniping enemies from afar and attacking carbon
copy bunkers and mines full of random boxes and enemies. Kaidan has had
nothing to talk about since I left the citadel, Ashley gave her alien
hate speech, Wrex and Tali played mr and ms Codex and only Garrus has
had more to say. We even got to do his side quest.

Now FINALLY I got something more out of Wrex and we're doing his armor quest. I don't even bother going to Kaidan anymore since he obviously doesn't want to talk to me.

Missing the mark just a little.  Yes, communication between party members was not perfect  in ME1(I like how Uncharted 2 did their party member chats).  There were even complaints that the ME1 Normandy seemed almost sterile of activity/movement of people in the ship, from which this is also true.   But ME1 was still ahead of ME2's communication between Squadies.  If you took the elevator ride with your squadies in ME1 there was a chance that your squadies would talk to each other, I always looked forward to the chance of seeing your squadies talk to each other like they may actually be living creatures.  I wanted MORE of those communication between squadies in ME2, but it was cut down even more compared to ME1.

Even IF ME1 had the members say little to nothing when they got together it was, and still is, a huge step ahead in socialization/communication between your members "compared" to ME2.  Again, ME1 squadie chat was not as good as it could have been, but FAR better than what they gave us in ME2.

[SkullandBonesmember]

bjdbwea wrote...

Su33nf wrote...

Hmm, I guess that does make sense.... just it makes the game kind of a bit more hollow on the reneged path.... but I mean regardless of what you do... you still run into liara, and ashley or that other guy and they still act like they know shaperd right? and new players wouldn't really know them ether.. right?

Right. You wouldn't really understand Star Wars either if you didn't watch the episodes in order. BioWare promised to make a trilogy, so they should just have expected that everyone had played part 1 first, or at least informed themselves about what was going on.

The game would have been a lot better, and they could have kept the whole old crew too. And I actually think this was the intention, but at some point someone (probably EA) insisted on significant changes to draw in new players, especially shooter fans and casual gamers.

bjdbwea wrote...

You're right about there being too many companions. What was the point? If you have less companions, you can dedicate more attention to every single one (and except for Mordin they all could've used it), plus you might have more time for a better story.

+1

Mirthadrond wrote...

Almost finished with my 1st ME2 run, and I got to say: gameplay wise, ME2 is better than ME1. I like the beefed up action.

ME2 gave us TOO MUCH of it. Plenty were content with the action in ME1.

Tempest wrote...

Missing the mark just a little.  Yes, communication between party members was not perfect  in ME1(I like how Uncharted 2 did their party member chats).  There were even complaints that the ME1 Normandy seemed almost sterile of activity/movement of people in the ship, from which this is also true.   But ME1 was still ahead of ME2's communication between Squadies.  If you took the elevator ride with your squadies in ME1 there was a chance that your squadies would talk to each other, I always looked forward to the chance of seeing your squadies talk to each other like they may actually be living creatures.  I wanted MORE of those communication between squadies in ME2, but it was cut down even more compared to ME1.

Even IF ME1 had the members say little to nothing when they got together it was, and still is, a huge step ahead in socialization/communication between your members "compared" to ME2.  Again, ME1 squadie chat was not as good as it could have been, but FAR better than what they gave us in ME2.

Character interaction hasn't been simplified/cut. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT! If anything it's been improved on.

[uberdowzen]

Orchomene wrote...

Where do you find figures comparing consoles and PC market ? I've seen many games multi plateform that old more on PC than on any console. I'm not talking about specific console games that have been ported to PC after but one that were developed for both.

In the glorious days of old PC versions probably did sell just as well if not better than console versions. Nowadays, you'd be lucky if the PC version sells a third of the number of copies the console versions do.

[Tempest]

Squadie interactions with each other was not improved on compared to ME1. Shepard talking to Squadies has, but not squadies with squadies, THIS was simplified. Having to force a squadies to talk is not the same. Illium, Citadel, Omega, Chuchanka, all these planets/locations had spots where you forced your squadies to give a point of view. They rarely gave it willingly unless you go to the right location on push the button to have them talk. You did not have that in ME1. The second got on the elevator they did it on their own without pushing a button to force them (pushing the elevator up/down button not the same). As said ME1 was not perfect but still better at Squadie/Squadie talk than ME2.



In ME1 you could have Wrex talk with Liandra, Kaiden with Ashley, Garrus with Tali. There wasn't much of that in ME2, there was even less. Miranda/Jack, Tali/Legion no where near the same. That is what I meant by simplified.

[MassEffect762]

Mister Mida wrote...

I find it a bit unrealistic that your former crew of Mass Effect 1 didn't do something to continue Shepard's work. Instead of continueing to find some way to defeat the Reapers they all go their seperate ways like Mass Effect 1 never happened.

Good point.

Seems to me Bioware wanted to save the best for last, the whole army building scenario.

I feel it saved them time and money in ME2 but will come back to haunt them in ME3, all the added characters aren't going to make it easy with each story/characters end game.(if they decide to raise the bar)

[uberdowzen]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Mirthadrond wrote...

Almost finished with my 1st ME2 run, and I got to say: gameplay wise, ME2 is better than ME1. I like the beefed up action.

ME2 gave us TOO MUCH of it. Plenty were content with the action in ME1.

And plenty more weren't. The extra combat in ME2 is not instead of dialogue and character development, it's instead of Mako exploration.

<rant>
The reason I dislike the UCWs so much is that they add nothing to the game. People say that they add a feeling of exploration to the game but I completely disagree. A game that did exploration very well (and would only be an OK game without it) is Diablo. The reason exploration is so satisfying in that game is two fold:

1) The dungeons are randomised. You never know what to expect. ME1's UCWs are not randomised so after the first playthrough they simply become a chore. Plus you always go in knowing what to expect: some basic 3D terrain, maybe a bunker, some geth and some minerals.

2) Fog. When you enter a Diablo dungeon you can't instantly see the whole thing. Part of Diablo's fun is not knowing what is coming up. ME1 you always know what is coming up, because you saw it on the map when you first landed.

Honestly, the main plot of ME1 and the UCWs feel like completely different games. On one hand you have awesome, well scripted environments like Feros and Noveria with good action and well done conversations and cinematics. And then on the other hand you have some terrible looking planets almost totally devoid of dialogue, anything particurly interesting to look at while you cruise across another empty plain and fun. And when you finally did reach an anomaly, it was one of three dungeons that you'd fought through 10 times (and none of them were that great the first time) with crates in different positions. I mean at least when DAO did it they were just 2 minute long encounters, not quite a large part of the game.
</rant>

Sorry, 'bout that...

[smudboy]

It's been suggested I post here, so I am:

(1 of 6) ME2: A Plot Analysis