58 réponses à ce sujet

[Beholderess]

I honestly tried to play renegade, but started to feel bad pretty soon. Heh, I am quite an idealist in real life, and been delighted that ME does not force one to choose the "lesser of two evils" as modern games tend to...ME2 is different( But even there I've tried to be as paragon as possible.



Though ocassional renegade action makes sence, espetially when you are dealing with some really unlikeable people=) A pity that persuasion skills are tied so closely to paragon/renegade meter. It would be nice to be able to use ocassional renegade-style threat in dialogue without commiting random acts of jerkery and/or sacrificing innocents to get enough renegade points.

[Zyrious]

As i stated in another post regaurding this: Bioware did not design you to pick all paragon or all renegade options. They intended to pick and choose. You can play different kinds of Renegades. You can be a racist renegade, or a tolerant renegade. You can play a cerberus loving renegade, or a renegade who despises TIM and is looking forward to the first oppertunity to backstab him.

Make use of neutral middle options and the occasional paragon option to shape your Shepard into who YOU want him to be. Personally, i am almost always renegade. I usually have mostly renegade points when i play my first playthrough, where i just make decisions based on what i would do.

Quite honestly i find Paragon shep too boy-scoutish and naive at times.

Modifié par Zyrious, 28 février 2010 - 05:20 .

[Severian75]

I have yet to be able to finish a renegade playthrough on either ME or ME2. ME2 isn't as bad as the first one, which was usually just chaotic douchebag reply, but at least many of the renegade replies make sense in the context of the game this time around.



My biggest problem with most renegade choices in the first game and some in the second game isn't the sometimes uncalled for jackassery (though that can be an issue at times), it's how out of place some of the replies are for who Shepard was prior to the game and what he is trying to accomplish in the game.



Shepard was a decorated soldier prior to becoming a spectre (no matter what origin you choose).. That is why he was chosen as a candidate. Someone who makes a habit of responding in the way the majority of the replies in the first game would never have made it to the position he is in.



Sure, you can role-play Shep as a certain type of person that would do or say the renegade things, but in all honesty, that person couldn't have existed prior to the game nor would he be undertaking the missions and within the game. He could very well be doing the main mission, but would not be doing the side missions at all or following within the constraints of the game world itself. (ie... no matter what rationale there might be for Tali to join you in the first game, a racist, **** Shepard would not bring a "Gypsy" alien aboard the alliance's most advanced war-ship.)



Sure, a lot of the paragon options are naive and extreme, but at least a person with those types of traits could exist in the established world and with the established personal history.

[Severian75]

Edit: Wrong post quoted..

I just have to jump in ad point out that they did in fact design the game to be played by choosing all one side or the other. Especially ME2. If you do not go all the way (or nearly all the way) in one direction, a good majority of the red/blue dialog will not be available. Especially the dialog needed to keep the peace between Jack and Miranda/Tali and Legion.

Modifié par Severian75, 28 février 2010 - 05:24 .

[buttcrackofdoom]

I felt so bad after beating up Mouse.  It was so uncalled for.

[Zyrious]

Severian75 wrote...

Severian75 wrote...

I have yet to be able to finish a renegade playthrough on either ME or ME2. ME2 isn't as bad as the first one, which was usually just chaotic douchebag reply, but at least many of the renegade replies make sense in the context of the game this time around.

My biggest problem with most renegade choices in the first game and some in the second game isn't the sometimes uncalled for jackassery (though that can be an issue at times), it's how out of place some of the replies are for who Shepard was prior to the game and what he is trying to accomplish in the game.

Shepard was a decorated soldier prior to becoming a spectre (no matter what origin you choose).. That is why he was chosen as a candidate. Someone who makes a habit of responding in the way the majority of the replies in the first game would never have made it to the position he is in.

Sure, you can role-play Shep as a certain type of person that would do or say the renegade things, but in all honesty, that person couldn't have existed prior to the game nor would he be undertaking the missions and within the game. He could very well be doing the main mission, but would not be doing the side missions at all or following within the constraints of the game world itself. (ie... no matter what rationale there might be for Tali to join you in the first game, a racist, **** Shepard would not bring a "Gypsy" alien aboard the alliance's most advanced war-ship.)

Sure, a lot of the paragon options are naive and extreme, but at least a person with those types of traits could exist in the established world and with the established personal history.

I just have to jump in ad point out that they did in fact design the game to be played by choosing all one side or the other. Especially ME2. If you do not go all the way (or nearly all the way) in one direction, a good majority of the red/blue dialog will not be available. Especially the dialog needed to keep the peace between Jack and Miranda/Tali and Legion.

Actually not true. I have frequently maxed out my renegade bar and still had half a paragon bar. It's not that hard, though you do definetly have to lean one way or the other. Plus, for instance - I failed the renegade check on Tali/legion once, and chose Tali's side, then talked to legion and was able to regain his loyalty with a renegade check there.

It's even easier with a ME-1 import and 100% research. Like i said, it's why both Paragon and Renegade line's can seem inconsistent. You ARENT meant to pick all top or all bottom options. For instance, in ME 1, i was full renegade but was never a racist.

[TheUnusualSuspect]

I think it's all about "getting into character". As I'm customising my Shep's face, I'm thinking about what my Shep's value systems are going to be, and tend to stick to that. I've played pure Paragon paths, and about 90% Renegade paths.



What I found somewhat refreshing was one time I started up a new game, using a game editor and setting my Paragon + Renegade points to 2000 each, and then just played the game without the concern of having to "meta-game" the mechanics in order to achieve sufficient para/rene points to trigger various options. To me, that whole mechanic is false. If Shep wants to handle a situation a certain way, why should he be prevented from doing so just because has hasn't been "bad enough" or "good enough" consistently enough? That's false/fake restrictions in and of itself.



I really enjoyed that play-through, where I was free to simply play Shepard without any meta-gaming concerns. I could choose to be Rene or Para as the situation suited my personal view of how I wanted to play Shepard, rather than have my option choices be limited by an artificial game mechanic. (Yes, I know the choice are always limited by what's coded, but having more choices is better than the game forcing less choices on you).

[ssgstank]

Well the reason I like to play as a renegade is it allows me to do stuff I would get arrested for in real life like smackin the crap out of the crime boss when he won't answer Thanes Questions and besides how manny times a day do you meet some one who could use a good punch in the face and you just can't do do it.

[Speakeasy13]

I find it hard to be renegade ALL THE TIME, the same way I find it hard to be paragon ALL THE TIME. I don't want to be a jerk to people I respect, and I don't want to always trust people and let live people who CLEARLY deserves to die.

My Shepard generally maintains a cold exterior to strangers and people I distrust, oh and Jacob too; but is quite capable of being friendly and caring towards people he trusts like Garrus, Wrex, Tali and Miranda.

You're a hero and you can be a jerk as the same person at the same time. That's realism. Why do you must stick with just one side of the spectrum when most if not all of us are somewhere in the middle?

PS: I generally like Joker but I would've called him a crippled ass if I were Shepard too. He got me killed, after all.

Modifié par Speakeasy13, 28 février 2010 - 05:50 .

[Dark Glasses]

I dunno about you, but I like Renegade options.

[Mokthr]

Severian75 wrote...

I have yet to be able to finish a renegade playthrough on either ME or ME2. ME2 isn't as bad as the first one, which was usually just chaotic douchebag reply, but at least many of the renegade replies make sense in the context of the game this time around.

My biggest problem with most renegade choices in the first game and some in the second game isn't the sometimes uncalled for jackassery (though that can be an issue at times), it's how out of place some of the replies are for who Shepard was prior to the game and what he is trying to accomplish in the game.

Shepard was a decorated soldier prior to becoming a spectre (no matter what origin you choose).. That is why he was chosen as a candidate. Someone who makes a habit of responding in the way the majority of the replies in the first game would never have made it to the position he is in.

Sure, you can role-play Shep as a certain type of person that would do or say the renegade things, but in all honesty, that person couldn't have existed prior to the game nor would he be undertaking the missions and within the game. He could very well be doing the main mission, but would not be doing the side missions at all or following within the constraints of the game world itself. (ie... no matter what rationale there might be for Tali to join you in the first game, a racist, **** Shepard would not bring a "Gypsy" alien aboard the alliance's most advanced war-ship.)

Sure, a lot of the paragon options are naive and extreme, but at least a person with those types of traits could exist in the established world and with the established personal history.

I thought you could refuse to let both Tali and Garrus join your crew. I don't remember where this was, but someone did say that they didn't let Tali or Garrus join up with them when Tali/Garrus asked to come along and that they had left them on the Citadel.

I've never done this myself (Tali and Garrus are too cool lol) but from the options you have when talking to them i thought you could actually refuse to bring them.

[vigna]

AAAhhhhhhh, Manuel.....

[Mokthr]

vigna wrote...

AAAhhhhhhh, Manuel.....

lol i always punched Manuel whether i was renegade or paragon. Just can't resist :innocent:

[Vendrac]

TheUnusualSuspect wrote...

I think it's all about "getting into character". As I'm customising my Shep's face, I'm thinking about what my Shep's value systems are going to be, and tend to stick to that. I've played pure Paragon paths, and about 90% Renegade paths.

What I found somewhat refreshing was one time I started up a new game, using a game editor and setting my Paragon + Renegade points to 2000 each, and then just played the game without the concern of having to "meta-game" the mechanics in order to achieve sufficient para/rene points to trigger various options. To me, that whole mechanic is false. If Shep wants to handle a situation a certain way, why should he be prevented from doing so just because has hasn't been "bad enough" or "good enough" consistently enough? That's false/fake restrictions in and of itself.

I really enjoyed that play-through, where I was free to simply play Shepard without any meta-gaming concerns. I could choose to be Rene or Para as the situation suited my personal view of how I wanted to play Shepard, rather than have my option choices be limited by an artificial game mechanic. (Yes, I know the choice are always limited by what's coded, but having more choices is better than the game forcing less choices on you).

Yeah I totally agree with that. I actually had to restart one of my characters because I had imported from my previous ME 2 completion (which was originally a ME 1 import)  and I hadn't realized that the paragon/renegade points never carried over. Too bad I only realized what had happened when I got up to the Miranda/Jack fight.

Still I think the Mass Effect games are doing it better than other games in the past. Many more shades of gray rather than strictly black/white. That's one of the reasons I've had a problem with playing all evil in the past.

My main Shep is generally a nice guy, especially to his friends, but (as my sig suggests) he won't give a second thought to taking someone out if they threaten the lives of those he cares for or himself. Some of the choices still aren't easy though. I think the toughest one for me in ME 2 was Garrus. Ultimately I went with talking to him first, and letting Garrus take the shot at the very end. Sidonis actually thanks you, rather somber but not really cold-blooded any more.

Modifié par Vendrac, 28 février 2010 - 06:13 .

[Acero Azul]

 i actually found it easier to keep everyone loyal being an ass

[EverteMax]

For me, Renegade > Paragon. For times when I feel like I just can't renegade...I pick the neutral option. Paragon dialogues and outcomes are seriously weak this time round. It was better in ME1.

[eternalnightmare13]

I love playing renegade.

[TheBlackBaron]

I'd definitely say it's more realistic to draw from both sides of the spectrum - in real life very few people are either a saint or an **** to everybody they meet. Zyrious hit the nail on the head when he talked about mixing options to build specific kinds of Paragons and Renegades and a more believable character.

To use Tali's trial as an example, I find it perfectly in-character for Shepard to give her a much needed hug one moment and then cuss out the Admiralty Board the next.

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 28 février 2010 - 06:24 .

[Cypher0020]

mostly paragon with a sprinkle of renegade... some options are ok... like shooting out the screen with Veetor, or blowing up the tank on Miranda's quest.... and for the life of me I do NOT understand why popping the mech's head off in Garrus's recruitment mission is renegade! Its a damn robot!



Other options, like beating the s*** outta Mouse is being 100% asswipe. I clicked that to experiment and couldn't believe how brutal that was, and how bad Mouse obviously felt.



Felt like such an ass, I reloaded and charmed/sweet talked him the second time around

[Multifarious Algorithm]

I roll paragon overall, but thanks to the glorious invention of interrupts (and the fact that ME2 paragon still punches people in the face) I get to do the things even paragon Shepard would do - such as stab people in the back with electrical cutting torches.

[aeetos21]

Renegade is definitely a lot more fun than paragon:



"Hehe, I can't believe that actually worked."

[ScooterPie88]

Wraith_3 wrote...

I tried to start a renegade playthrough, but I like playing the hero too much. After the first renegade option has you tell Ashley that you will go "save the cripple" I felt more like an a**hole than a bad guy. I also dislike the fact that in the Bioware games I've played (ME & KOTOR) the "bad guy" is just a jerk, not really a bad guy. 

That is exactly how I feel.  I like watching my friends and brother play renegade or get people killed just so I can see what happens and because I think some of the renegade stuff is damn funny but I do have a hard time doing it myself.  I never played through ME1 as a renegade  and I doubt ME2 will be any different I just have a hard time playing the bad guy.  However some renegade stuff is quite funny to watch. And I agree with you the renegade options generally make you feel like a jerk to your team and everyone around you.  Rather that a sense of evil you get a sense of petty jerk.  Except for a few cases none of your decisions are truly "evil."

Modifié par ScooterPie88, 28 février 2010 - 06:38 .

[dantesfire10]

I cant even watch Paragon actions.  SOOOO effin corny.

I really can ONLY play Renegade cause IMO it fits character sooo much more, especially in ME2. 

I really dont understand why you shouldnt pull a gun on someone whos jus jerkin you around.

[JamieCOTC]

Corvus754 wrote...

I have a really hard time playing renegade. Some of the conversation options are things I can Identify with, but other times, it's just...
You look back and you realize you made yourself look like a douche.

I suppose that means all renegades eventually become like Udina. 

[dantesfire10]

as*hole is synonomous with badass, get over it.

Modifié par dantesfire10, 28 février 2010 - 06:42 .