163 réponses à ce sujet

[A Fhaol Bhig]

Ulysseslotro wrote...

A Fhaol Bhig wrote...
your a hypocrite, your doing the exact samething as him.

Whatever fanboi.  They have no proof so your just defending their opinion based on your own bias. 

You mean fanboy right? Because I find it difficult to take someone seriously when they try to insult me with a mispelled word.

Again, your doing the exact samething. Your defending your opinion, based on your own bias. You are doing the exact thing you accuse us of doing. Maybe you should stop being a hypocrite.

[Athenau]

Ulysseslotro, please just go away. We get it. You really like your Widow, and you have an emotional investment in proving that your choice is the best one. That's cool and all, but you're also pretty bad at the whole "debating" and "using logic" thing, so it's probably best if you just cut your losses and stopped derailing threads with your inane arguments.

[A Fhaol Bhig]

Atmosfear3 wrote...

A Fhaol Bhig wrote...

Atmosfear3 wrote...

Ulysseslotro wrote...

Athenau wrote...

Well I thought they got a 1.25 bonus as short range but your right it doesn't. He had two days to perfect that time. I did it in an hour. As far as Revenant killing faster than Widow; well keep dreaming.

You're seriously retarded if you think the Widow kills faster at close range. I've taken down two guys in one adrenaline rush and another during the cooldown with the Revenant (and yes this is on insanity).

You're seriously mentally ill.  You defend Revenant like you have Stockholm Syndrome over it.  Vids prove Widow a faster killer.

Vids prove nothing.  All these supposed vids are taking place on the platforms.  Anybody can speed run through that, its irrelevant for the rest of the game.

How about a speed run through the final part of the Reaper IFF mission with the Widow?

Or, wait, is that more tailored for the Revenant than the widow?

I guess its like using the platforms part which favors sniping, over close/medium range as your example.

Forgive me, perhaps I used a poor choice of words.  What I meant to say is that weapons are effective depending on the situation.  There are weapons that are good for certain parts of the game and weapons that are good for general purposes.  The revenant is that weapon.  The vids prove nothing except that a situation which favors snipers is true.  Theres not dispute about that.  To gauge the entirety of the game that the widow is perfect for every situation is just plain ignorant.

Nonononono!
I wasn't agruing against you! I was agreeing with you! I was just backing you up XD

sorry for the misunderstanding.

Modifié par A Fhaol Bhig, 28 février 2010 - 09:43 .

[Spyndel]

Ulysseslotro wrote...

I don't want to debate if infils are better or not than Soldier.  Any class with Widow kills faster than any class with Rev.  Soldier still one shot tons of **** with Widow, and when they run out of that ammo they can switch to Vindicator or vice versa and still kill faster than a "bursting" Rev soldier.

Wow. So, you want to go on record as saying its remotely in the ballpark of a rational comparison, to take the perfomance a class that is designed to be the best in the game with that particular weapon, to an entirely different class with a different skillset, as any kind of "evidence" that that weapon has some sort of greater value in the hands of that *other class*.

Far out.


Ill tell you what though. Imma go ahead and toss *that* vid, not that the vids prove anything as to the relative overall value of either weapon. That leaves your subsequent attempt vid in a map that is designed to be favorable to sniping, at roughly 20 seconds better than RamsenC's casual attempt vid. If you want to take that as evidence of anything, thats fine, but to me, it says more about the value of practicing a given area over and over.

[Athenau]

There are a lot of places in the game where you can abuse sniping (by taking advantage of the limited enemy awareness radius for example). But the thing is, taking a better sniper rifle just makes an easy fight easier. If you have the luxury to snipe, then any of the sniper rifles is going to get the job done, just some will take longer than others.

On the other hand, using a suboptimal weapon in close combat means that you'll probably die.

Spyndel:

Wow. So, you want to go on record as saying its remotely in the
ballpark of a rational comparison, to take the perfomance a class that
is designed to be the best in the game with that particular weapon, to
an entirely different class with a different skillset, as any kind of
"evidence" that that weapon has some sort of greater value in the hands
of that *other class*.

It's not even a question of skillset.  Soldiers make great snipers, but you can't make speedrun comparisons with other classes  since adrenaline rush dilates time.  When a soldier in rush is taking more than 4 seconds per shot (rush duration on insanity) vs ~2.4 seconds for an infil well...I mean, wtf?  How could someone even think that was a good idea?

Modifié par Athenau, 28 février 2010 - 09:53 .

[A Fhaol Bhig]

Spyndel wrote...

Ulysseslotro wrote...

I don't want to debate if infils are better or not than Soldier.  Any class with Widow kills faster than any class with Rev.  Soldier still one shot tons of **** with Widow, and when they run out of that ammo they can switch to Vindicator or vice versa and still kill faster than a "bursting" Rev soldier.

Wow. So, you want to go on record as saying its remotely in the ballpark of a rational comparison, to take the perfomance a class that is designed to be the best in the game with that particular weapon, to an entirely different class with a different skillset, as any kind of "evidence" that that weapon has some sort of greater value in the hands of that *other class*.

Far out.


Ill tell you what though. Imma go ahead and toss *that* vid, not that the vids prove anything as to the relative overall value of either weapon. That leaves your subsequent attempt vid in a map that is designed to be favorable to sniping, at roughly 20 seconds better than RamsenC's casual attempt vid. If you want to take that as evidence of anything, thats fine, but to me, it says more about the value of practicing a given area over and over.

I can now picture the guy, staying up for 2 days straight, just prove us "fanbois" wrong.

[Shvabic]

As a Soldier you just have to take the Rev, which can be upgraded to 6/6 like no other weapon and is totally exclusive to your class.

With Adrenaline Rush you can utilize the Viper SR damn fine while you're gonna have to reload your Widow before AR runs out and waste time.



Yes, the Widow may still be better than the Viper, but if you choose it, you have no Revenant for CQC or medium range combat.



I will enjoy the Widow on my Infiltrator, not my Soldier.

[A Fhaol Bhig]

To be honest I didn't use Adrenaline that much, because I wasn't used to hot keys so I wouldn't really know >.>

[Spyndel]

Athenau wrote...


It's not even a question of skillset.  Soldiers make great snipers, but you can't make speedrun comparisons with other classes  since adrenaline rush dilates time.  When a soldier in rush is taking 4 seconds per shot (rush duration on insanity) vs ~2.4 seconds for an infil well...I mean, wtf?  How could someone even think that was a good idea?

Well, INF get infinite slo mo with no cooldown when sniping.  Not to mention nearly double the damage with the wepaon in question.   But it just goes to show, its an entirely invlaid comparison for what he wants to do.  Not that any of the vids were even in the ballpark of scientific, but comparing Infiltrator Widow vs Soldier Rev, is just...wow.

Anyways, this has gotten remarkably silly now, even by the standards of this board, where we debate silly as a general rule.

[A Fhaol Bhig]

Spyndel wrote...

Athenau wrote...


It's not even a question of skillset.  Soldiers make great snipers, but you can't make speedrun comparisons with other classes  since adrenaline rush dilates time.  When a soldier in rush is taking 4 seconds per shot (rush duration on insanity) vs ~2.4 seconds for an infil well...I mean, wtf?  How could someone even think that was a good idea?

Well, INF get infinite slo mo with no cooldown when sniping.  Not to mention nearly double the damage with the wepaon in question.   But it just goes to show, its an entirely invlaid comparison for what he wants to do.  Not that any of the vids were even in the ballpark of scientific, but comparing Infiltrator Widow vs Soldier Rev, is just...wow.

Anyways, this has gotten remarkably silly now, even by the standards of this board, where we debate silly as a general rule.

Touche.

[Athenau]

Fun fact, the Viper is actually the highest dps sniper rifle in the game, if you tap the trigger to max the fire rate.

Viper: 4 rounds per second, 81 damage per shot, 12 round mag. It takes 3 seconds to empty the mag, and 1.5 seconds to reload for 972 damage over 4.5 seconds, or 216 dps.

Widow: .86 seconds per round (70 ROF), 364 damage per shot, 1 round mag. It takes .86 seconds for the shot and an additional 1.5 second for the reload, so 364 damage over 2.36 seconds or 154 dps

Of course, it's much easier to get the peak damage output from the Widow than it is the Viper, but it goes to show that you're hardly gimped by choosing the latter.

Spyndel:

Well, INF get infinite slo mo with no cooldown when sniping. 
Not to mention nearly double the damage with the wepaon in question.  
But it just goes to show, its an entirely invlaid comparison for what
he wants to do.  Not that any of the vids were even in the ballpark of
scientific, but comparing Infiltrator Widow vs Soldier Rev, is
just...wow.

Soldiers get +140% damage with heightened AR, which is why people say they're awesome at sniping.  And the infil slomo doesn't really matter since you only fire one shot, but the AR slowdown does matter since you fire the one shot and now you're stuck in the slooow reload animation until rush runs out.

But yeah, it is a silly comparison and should never have been made.

Modifié par Athenau, 28 février 2010 - 10:01 .

[Ulysseslotro]

Atmosfear3 wrote...

Forgive me, perhaps I used a poor choice of words.  What I meant to say is that weapons are effective depending on the situation.  There are weapons that are good for certain parts of the game and weapons that are good for general purposes.  The revenant is that weapon.  The vids prove nothing except that a situation which favors snipers is true.  Theres not dispute about that.  To gauge the entirety of the game that the widow is perfect for every situation is just plain ignorant.

I never said Widow is better in the IFF.  As a Soldier I have a flamethrower and a nice shotgun.  I also have Conc strike which one shots husks and  I got grenades too.  I have a TON of anti-IFF weapons as a Soldier.  Grabbing the Rev because it is the best weapon for HUSKS is just plain ignorant.  I can kill the Scions from long range with Widow.  There is so many ammo clips on that mission it is actually counter-intuitive to say Revs huge ammo clip is an advantage in this mission.

Rev Fanbois have been saying 'Rev is perfect in every situation for everything.'  That is the ignorance I have been disputing.  'The Rev kills everything faster than any other weapon.'  "No weapon matches it"   I've been countering this ignorance with actual proof.  If you or they can not accept reality then I can not help you and it is just a waste of my typing skills.

Modifié par Ulysseslotro, 28 février 2010 - 10:00 .

[rumination888]

When I made the Widow + infiltrator speedrun I specifically mentioned that the part favored sniping, BUT, a Soldier + Revenant can still do it slightly faster. I'm sad to see such a thread turn up and use that video as some sort of justification that Widow > Revenant for Soldiers.

So, to recrtify the situation, I will make a Soldier video clearing that section slightly faster without the use of the Widow.

[Athenau]

Rev Fanbois have been saying 'Rev is perfect in every situation for everything.' That is the ignorance I have been disputing. 'The Rev kills everything faster than any other weapon.' "No weapon matches it" I've been countering this ignorance with actual proof. If you or they can not accept reality then I can not help you and it is just a waste of my typing skills.

No one on this thread has been saying anything of sort. You, on the other hand, have claimed that the Widow kills faster at close range, and that the Widow kills faster period.



Protip: When your posts are a matter of public record, it's best not to lie about them.

[Spyndel]

No more vids! Please. REv will always be better for me personally, because I dont feel right running into a room with a Widow and saying, "Say Hello to My Lil Freng!!"

[A Fhaol Bhig]

Ulysseslotro wrote...

Atmosfear3 wrote...

Forgive me, perhaps I used a poor choice of words.  What I meant to say is that weapons are effective depending on the situation.  There are weapons that are good for certain parts of the game and weapons that are good for general purposes.  The revenant is that weapon.  The vids prove nothing except that a situation which favors snipers is true.  Theres not dispute about that.  To gauge the entirety of the game that the widow is perfect for every situation is just plain ignorant.

I never said Widow is better in the IFF.  As a Soldier I have a flamethrower and a nice shotgun.  I also have Conc strike which one shots husks and  I got grenades too.  I have a TON of anti-IFF weapons as a Soldier.  Grabbing the Rev because it is the best weapon for HUSKS is just plain ignorant.  I can kill the Scions from long range with Widow.  There is so many ammo clips on that mission it is actually counter-intuitive to say Revs huge ammo clip is an advantage in this mission.

Rev Fanbois have been saying 'Rev is perfect in every situation for everything.'  That is the ignorance I have been disputing.  'The Rev kills everything faster than any other weapon.'  "No weapon matches it"   I've been countering this ignorance with actual proof.  If you or they can not accept reality then I can not help you and it is just a waste of my typing skills.

...I'm sorry to stoop to insults...but are you bloody stupid?

I never said, that you said the widow was better in the IFF. I specifically choose that mission because it would be one  that the Rev' would be amazing at. It was mocking your choice of a mission where the Widow, is amazing at.

And I can kill scions, from close to medium range with any weapon.

How would it be counter-intuitive to have lots of ammo? like

Marine: Big fight coming up men! Bring as little ammo as you can!

That would be counter-intuitive, having lots of ammo on a mission where you will expend lots of ammo is not counter-intuitive. Quite the opposite.

I've never said the Rev' was perfect for every situation, and I don't really recall anyone saying it was. I recall people saying stuff along the lines of "it's the best over-all weapon" not because it's perfect for every situation, but for most fights it does really well. And thats a personal opinion, if you think the Widow is better, than you think its better. No big deal, get over it.

Also, you have no proof, just a video slanted in the widow's favor.

Modifié par A Fhaol Bhig, 28 février 2010 - 10:07 .

[A Fhaol Bhig]

Spyndel wrote...

No more vids! Please. REv will always be better for me personally, because I dont feel right running into a room with a Widow and saying, "Say Hello to My Lil Freng!!"

with an accent like that?

of course not!

[Spyndel]

Athenau wrote...

Rev Fanbois have been saying 'Rev is perfect in every situation for everything.' That is the ignorance I have been disputing. 'The Rev kills everything faster than any other weapon.' "No weapon matches it" I've been countering this ignorance with actual proof. If you or they can not accept reality then I can not help you and it is just a waste of my typing skills.

No one on this thread has been saying anything of sort. You, on the other hand, have claimed that the Widow kills faster at close range, and that the Widow kills faster period.

Protip: When your posts are a matter of public record, it's best not to lie about them.

To be fair, I did say that the Rev was suitable for nearly any situation in the game aside from distant enemies you are physically prevented from reaching. I said that once you get the Rev, your Game becomes about the Rev, with comparatively little weapon juggling, unless you're just sniping rocketeers for kicks. I believe I said it kills everything, it kills fast (not "fastest"), and it never runs out of bullets.

And then I went on to say that could be a bad thing if you prefer to mix it up more than you prefer the practicality of an always-on god weapon, so it might not be the best fit for everyone.


I believe if you're particularly fevered, you might be able to extrapolate what he just said from what I said.

[Sabresandiego]

The revenant is the coolest gun in the game. It looks and sounds awesome and makes you feel like rambo. Its only drawback is poor accuracy. Having the accuracy upgrade is a must or the weapon sucks. Try to engage enemies in close to medium range and the revenant will chew them up. Long range you need to burst fire or switch to a sniper. Revenant is my favorite gun in the game, I wish my vanguard could use it.

[A Fhaol Bhig]

Spyndel wrote...

Athenau wrote...

Rev Fanbois have been saying 'Rev is perfect in every situation for everything.' That is the ignorance I have been disputing. 'The Rev kills everything faster than any other weapon.' "No weapon matches it" I've been countering this ignorance with actual proof. If you or they can not accept reality then I can not help you and it is just a waste of my typing skills.

No one on this thread has been saying anything of sort. You, on the other hand, have claimed that the Widow kills faster at close range, and that the Widow kills faster period.

Protip: When your posts are a matter of public record, it's best not to lie about them.

To be fair, I did say that the Rev was suitable for nearly any situation in the game aside from distant enemies you are physically prevented from reaching. I said that once you get the Rev, your Game becomes about the Rev, with comparatively little weapon juggling, unless you're just sniping rocketeers for kicks. I believe I said it kills everything, it kills fast (not "fastest"), and it never runs out of bullets.

And then I went on to say that could be a bad thing if you prefer to mix it up more than you prefer the practicality of an always-on god weapon, so it might not be the best fit for everyone.


I believe if you're particularly fevered, you might be able to extrapolate what he just said from what I said.

Bolded.

But not every situation, like he claimed we were saying.

[Athenau]

It looks and sounds awesome and makes you feel like rambo

Thread over, we can all go home now.

[Atmosfear3]

Ulysseslotro wrote...

I never said Widow is better in the IFF.  As a Soldier I have a flamethrower and a nice shotgun.  I also have Conc strike which one shots husks and  I got grenades too.  I have a TON of anti-IFF weapons as a Soldier.  Grabbing the Rev because it is the best weapon for HUSKS is just plain ignorant.  I can kill the Scions from long range with Widow.  There is so many ammo clips on that mission it is actually counter-intuitive to say Revs huge ammo clip is an advantage in this mission.

Rev Fanbois have been saying 'Rev is perfect in every situation for everything.'  That is the ignorance I have been disputing.  'The Rev kills everything faster than any other weapon.'  "No weapon matches it"   I've been countering this ignorance with actual proof.  If you or they can not accept reality then I can not help you and it is just a waste of my typing skills.

So you have both the flamethrower and the grenade launcher? Or are we playing a different game because I don't recall through my 6 playthroughs where Shepard gets grenades. Also, I never said anything about husks, why would you even bring that up? Also its irrelevant how many ammo clips are lying around, its how much each magazine holds.
The rev is not perfect for every situation but it is good for every situation.  Reread that as many times as you like for it to sink in. And please, don't brag about your typing skills.  Don't even go there.

[Spyndel]

Athenau wrote...

Soldiers get +140% damage with heightened AR.

Really?  Where is that documented, if you dont mind my asking?  That makes me want to reroll another soldier.

[JaegerBane]

Ulysseslotro wrote...
I never said Widow is better in the IFF.  As a Soldier I have a flamethrower and a nice shotgun.  I also have Conc strike which one shots husks and  I got grenades too.  I have a TON of anti-IFF weapons as a Soldier.  Grabbing the Rev because it is the best weapon for HUSKS is just plain ignorant.  I can kill the Scions from long range with Widow.  There is so many ammo clips on that mission it is actually counter-intuitive to say Revs huge ammo clip is an advantage in this mission.

I think the issue here is that no-one is actually claiming that the Rev is the perfrect weapon for every situation. It *is*, however, the weapon that maintains the highest level of effectiveness at any range. Clearly the widow will presumably prove to be a better long range sniping weapon but, as has already been mentioned, claiming the widow is a better weapon because it's better at sniping doesn't really make any sense.

More to the point, no-one is claiming the Rev is the best weapon purely to deal with husks. It happens to be very good against husks, the point being made is that it happens to very good at lots of other things too.

Rev Fanbois have been saying 'Rev is perfect in every situation for everything.'  That is the ignorance I have been disputing.  'The Rev kills everything faster than any other weapon.'  "No weapon matches it"   I've been countering this ignorance with actual proof.  If you or they can not accept reality then I can not help you and it is just a waste of my typing skills.

Your 'actual proof' proves the Widow is a better sniper weapon than the Rev is. I don't think anyone on here would be the surprised that a Sniper Rifle is better than a Machine Gun for Sniping, so I'm not really sure why you keep banging on about it. The Widow loses out at short and medium ranges due primarily to a mixture of ammo capacity and lack of multipliers. But that isn't really surprising either. This isn't a case of 'accepting reality', this is a case of common sense and maths. The DPS and damage multiplier points are pretty conclusive.

[A Fhaol Bhig]

Thank you Bane.