163 réponses à ce sujet

[Ulysseslotro]

rumination888 wrote...

When I made the Widow + infiltrator speedrun I specifically mentioned that the part favored sniping, BUT, a Soldier + Revenant can still do it slightly faster. I'm sad to see such a thread turn up and use that video as some sort of justification that Widow > Revenant for Soldiers.

So, to recrtify the situation, I will make a Soldier video clearing that section slightly faster without the use of the Widow.

Well here are the rules.  You can use HAR only.  You have to finish off opponents.  You can not leave them for your Squad to kill.  This is a test of weapon vs weapon not squad vs squad.  You can not use heal.  You can only use Reverant and Mantis.  You can not use squad skills.  You can not move from your initial position.  This is as much a test of how protected you are as much as it is how much damage you can dish out.

[rumination888]

Spyndel wrote...

No more vids! Please. REv will always be better for me personally, because I dont feel right running into a room with a Widow and saying, "Say Hello to My Lil Freng!!"

No more vids? TOO LATE!
Already recorded!

Ulysseslotro wrote...

Well
here are the rules.  You can use HAR only.  You have to finish off
opponents.  You can not leave them for your Squad to kill.  This is a
test of weapon vs weapon not squad vs squad.  You can not use heal. 
You can only use Reverant and Mantis.  You can not use squad skills. 
You can not move from your initial position.  This is as much a test of
how protected you are as much as it is how much damage you can dish out.

What?
I controlled my squadmates when I made the Infiltrator speedrun.
Why wouldn't I control my squadmates when I made my Soldier speedrun?

Modifié par rumination888, 28 février 2010 - 10:36 .

[A Fhaol Bhig]

Ulysseslotro wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

When I made the Widow + infiltrator speedrun I specifically mentioned that the part favored sniping, BUT, a Soldier + Revenant can still do it slightly faster. I'm sad to see such a thread turn up and use that video as some sort of justification that Widow > Revenant for Soldiers.

So, to recrtify the situation, I will make a Soldier video clearing that section slightly faster without the use of the Widow.

Well here are the rules.  You can use HAR only.  You have to finish off opponents.  You can not leave them for your Squad to kill.  This is a test of weapon vs weapon not squad vs squad.  You can not use heal.  You can only use Reverant and Mantis.  You can not use squad skills.  You can not move from your initial position.  This is as much a test of how protected you are as much as it is how much damage you can dish out.

Their are rules?

So if they shoot someone, and it dies, like they are programmed to, the video is disqualified?

No heal? what if you get shot and you heal naturally? oh no! disqualification

Rev' and mantis? gosh, I don't suppose thats why other weapons are in the game right?

No squad skills? shoot, what if they use them by themselves?

Damage? Well both have high damage, don't know what you are getting at.

Your being a hypocrite again, your getting over obessive with your postion, which is exactly what you accused us of eariler.

[Kronner]

Ulysseslotro wrote...

Well here are the rules.  You can use HAR only.  You have to finish off opponents.  You can not leave them for your Squad to kill.  This is a test of weapon vs weapon not squad vs squad.  You can not use heal.  You can only use Reverant and Mantis.  You can not use squad skills.  You can not move from your initial position.  This is as much a test of how protected you are as much as it is how much damage you can dish out.

WTF?
Who plays like that? Fact is, aggressive Soldier with Revenant kills faster than Soldier with Widow in majority of the combat scenarios in the game.

[A Fhaol Bhig]

Kronner wrote...

Ulysseslotro wrote...

Well here are the rules.  You can use HAR only.  You have to finish off opponents.  You can not leave them for your Squad to kill.  This is a test of weapon vs weapon not squad vs squad.  You can not use heal.  You can only use Reverant and Mantis.  You can not use squad skills.  You can not move from your initial position.  This is as much a test of how protected you are as much as it is how much damage you can dish out.

WTF?
Who plays like that? Fact is, aggressive Soldier with Revenant kills faster than Soldier with Widow in majority of the combat scenarios in the game.

Next he's going to say, you can only use 13 shots

[JaegerBane]

Ulysseslotro wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

When I made the Widow + infiltrator speedrun I specifically mentioned that the part favored sniping, BUT, a Soldier + Revenant can still do it slightly faster. I'm sad to see such a thread turn up and use that video as some sort of justification that Widow > Revenant for Soldiers.

So, to recrtify the situation, I will make a Soldier video clearing that section slightly faster without the use of the Widow.

Well here are the rules.  You can use HAR only.  You have to finish off opponents.  You can not leave them for your Squad to kill.  This is a test of weapon vs weapon not squad vs squad.  You can not use heal.  You can only use Reverant and Mantis.  You can not use squad skills.  You can not move from your initial position.  This is as much a test of how protected you are as much as it is how much damage you can dish out.

How is this a test of weapon versus weapon? 'You cannot move from your initial position'?

You do realise that this is fundementally biased towards anything that is superior at long range? If you used the same criteria on the IFF then the Widow would be considered less effective then the bloomin' Predator, as not moving means you only kill, at best, 13 husks. The rest you'd have to smack them to death due to lack of thermals.

[A Fhaol Bhig]

JaegerBane wrote...

Ulysseslotro wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

When I made the Widow + infiltrator speedrun I specifically mentioned that the part favored sniping, BUT, a Soldier + Revenant can still do it slightly faster. I'm sad to see such a thread turn up and use that video as some sort of justification that Widow > Revenant for Soldiers.

So, to recrtify the situation, I will make a Soldier video clearing that section slightly faster without the use of the Widow.

Well here are the rules.  You can use HAR only.  You have to finish off opponents.  You can not leave them for your Squad to kill.  This is a test of weapon vs weapon not squad vs squad.  You can not use heal.  You can only use Reverant and Mantis.  You can not use squad skills.  You can not move from your initial position.  This is as much a test of how protected you are as much as it is how much damage you can dish out.

How is this a test of weapon versus weapon? 'You cannot move from your initial position'?

You do realise that this is fundementally biased towards anything that is superior at long range? If you used the same criteria on the IFF then the Widow would be considered less effective then the bloomin' Predator, as not moving means you only kill, at best, 13 husks. The rest you'd have to smack them to death due to lack of thermals.

I mean, if you want to see who's faster, you don't place one person 100ft behind the other and say go.

[Ulysseslotro]

rumination888 wrote...

Spyndel wrote...

No more vids! Please. REv will always be better for me personally, because I dont feel right running into a room with a Widow and saying, "Say Hello to My Lil Freng!!"

No more vids? TOO LATE!
Already recorded!

Ulysseslotro wrote...

Well
here are the rules.  You can use HAR only.  You have to finish off
opponents.  You can not leave them for your Squad to kill.  This is a
test of weapon vs weapon not squad vs squad.  You can not use heal. 
You can only use Reverant and Mantis.  You can not use squad skills. 
You can not move from your initial position.  This is as much a test of
how protected you are as much as it is how much damage you can dish out.

What?
I controlled my squadmates when I made the Infiltrator speedrun.
Why wouldn't I control my squadmates when I made my Soldier speedrun?

Because it is not about the squadmates.  It is about the weapon.  You have to eliminate all variables that don't apply to the Weapon.  Squadmates abilities are variables that have no bearing on the output of the Rev or Widow.  That's what I did with my test even though the Rev Soldier was using everything he could possibly do and more.

[Siven80]

I dont understand what Ulysseslotro wants us to well...understand, other than that the Widow is a great Sniper weapon...which is common sense.

I think everyone knows both are great weapons, and no one is saying the Revenant is constantly better than the Widow in all areas of the field. But it is better than the Widow in short and medium ranges... again common sense.

So really he's very confusing

[JaegerBane]

Ulysseslotro wrote...
 You have to eliminate all variables that don't apply to the Weapon. 

In this case you cannot impose a condition on staying put. This variable directly applies to weapons as not all weapons are long range.

Seriously, it makes about as much sense as to impose a condition that you're not allowed to reload.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 28 février 2010 - 10:49 .

[fightingmonkey94]

Rev is a close to mid range weapon the widows is long range they are desinded for different situations so Ulysseslotro how can you call it a fair general purpose test if you perform said taste in a situation best suited to snipers. All this proves is that the widow is better at long range as it was decinded to be

[rumination888]

Ulysseslotro wrote...

Because it is not about the squadmates.  It is about the weapon.  You have to eliminate all variables that don't apply to the Weapon.  Squadmates abilities are variables that have no bearing on the output of the Rev or Widow.  That's what I did with my test even though the Rev Soldier was using everything he could possibly do and more.

If its not about the squadmates, then RamsenC already proved the Revenant is better than the Widow on a Soldier.
AverageGatsby came in the thread showing how fast an Adept could do it while utilizing squadmates. I wanted to show how the other classes could do it even faster by utilizing squadmates. That was the entire point of my Infiltrator speedrun, not that the Widow was better than the Revenant on a Soldier.

http://social.biowar...8/index/1400165

[Ulysseslotro]

JaegerBane wrote...

Ulysseslotro wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

When I made the Widow + infiltrator speedrun I specifically mentioned that the part favored sniping, BUT, a Soldier + Revenant can still do it slightly faster. I'm sad to see such a thread turn up and use that video as some sort of justification that Widow > Revenant for Soldiers.

So, to recrtify the situation, I will make a Soldier video clearing that section slightly faster without the use of the Widow.

Well here are the rules.  You can use HAR only.  You have to finish off opponents.  You can not leave them for your Squad to kill.  This is a test of weapon vs weapon not squad vs squad.  You can not use heal.  You can only use Reverant and Mantis.  You can not use squad skills.  You can not move from your initial position.  This is as much a test of how protected you are as much as it is how much damage you can dish out.

How is this a test of weapon versus weapon? 'You cannot move from your initial position'?

You do realise that this is fundementally biased towards anything that is superior at long range? If you used the same criteria on the IFF then the Widow would be considered less effective then the bloomin' Predator, as not moving means you only kill, at best, 13 husks. The rest you'd have to smack them to death due to lack of thermals.

Well if you want to play as a half-assed Vanguard you may aswell play a Vanguard.  They can take stuff down fast and have protection and speed with charge.  So Rambo Revs must fight great from short, medium and long range for them to be all around great assault rifle.  They can't though, as soon as your in a long range fight you suck ballz.  In a medium ranged fight you still do pathetic damage.  It is when you play like a Vanguard that you do alot of damage with Rev.

This doesn't make Rev > than other weapons.  It just means there is a half-assed Vanguard someone could choose to play.  And that is what this entire thread boils down too.  I am saying that I don't think he should play the game a 2nd time with Soldier and pick up the Rev because he could just play the Vanguard class and get a better experience from that.  Or better yet choose an Engineer or Adept and have a completely new and different experience.

[Spyndel]

rumination888 wrote...

Ulysseslotro wrote...

Because it is not about the squadmates.  It is about the weapon.  You have to eliminate all variables that don't apply to the Weapon.  Squadmates abilities are variables that have no bearing on the output of the Rev or Widow.  That's what I did with my test even though the Rev Soldier was using everything he could possibly do and more.

If its not about the squadmates, then RamsenC already proved the Revenant is better than the Widow on a Soldier.
AverageGatsby came in the thread showing how fast an Adept could do it while utilizing squadmates. I wanted to show how the other classes could do it even faster by utilizing squadmates. That was the entire point of my Infiltrator speedrun, not that the Widow was better than the Revenant on a Soldier.

http://social.biowar...8/index/1400165

Rumination, he made a subsequent attempt after his intial vid where he didnt miss as many shots that beat RamsenC's time by roughly 20 seconds.  Hence, his "proof".

[edit] Ramsen did note that the sequence unfolded differently for some reason, so the time comparisons arent completely valid (if its even possible to have any kind of validity in this exercise).

Modifié par Spyndel, 28 février 2010 - 11:09 .

[kingghost111]

Just here to say that if you're a solider you should mos def grab the Revenant and get the accuracy upgrade(s). That + full incinerate ammo + full dmg upgrades = win. If the spray is too wide you're probably at long range and need to switch to the Viper anyway... that's when I adrenaline rush and just get headshots

Modifié par kingghost111, 28 février 2010 - 11:09 .

[Ulysseslotro]

rumination888 wrote...

Ulysseslotro wrote...

Because it is not about the squadmates.  It is about the weapon.  You have to eliminate all variables that don't apply to the Weapon.  Squadmates abilities are variables that have no bearing on the output of the Rev or Widow.  That's what I did with my test even though the Rev Soldier was using everything he could possibly do and more.

If its not about the squadmates, then RamsenC already proved the Revenant is better than the Widow on a Soldier.
AverageGatsby came in the thread showing how fast an Adept could do it while utilizing squadmates. I wanted to show how the other classes could do it even faster by utilizing squadmates. That was the entire point of my Infiltrator speedrun, not that the Widow was better than the Revenant on a Soldier.

http://social.biowar...8/index/1400165

I beat RamsenC's time without using squadmates.  It proved Widow > Rev on Soldier.  Your run was just icing on the cake to that point.

[rumination888]

Ulysseslotro wrote...

Well if you want to play as a half-assed Vanguard you may aswell play a Vanguard.  They can take stuff down fast and have protection and speed with charge.  So Rambo Revs must fight great from short, medium and long range for them to be all around great assault rifle.  They can't though, as soon as your in a long range fight you suck ballz.  In a medium ranged fight you still do pathetic damage.  It is when you play like a Vanguard that you do alot of damage with Rev.

This doesn't make Rev > than other weapons.  It just means there is a half-assed Vanguard someone could choose to play.  And that is what this entire thread boils down too.  I am saying that I don't think he should play the game a 2nd time with Soldier and pick up the Rev because he could just play the Vanguard class and get a better experience from that.  Or better yet choose an Engineer or Adept and have a completely new and different experience.

Vanguards are only godly at short range. Likewise, Infiltrators are godly at long range. A well-played Soldier is great at short, medium, and long range. That is the Soldier's strength.

www.youtube.com/watch

Ulysseslotro wrote...

I beat RamsenC's time without using
squadmates.  It proved Widow > Rev on Soldier.  Your run was just
icing on the cake to that point.

You beat him by using Widow + Vindicator. RamsenC did it with Revenant only. I gaurantee that if he switched to the Viper for parts of the battle, he'd beat your 2nd time easily.

Modifié par rumination888, 28 février 2010 - 11:15 .

[Siven80]

Ah i understand Ulyss now......he doesnt know how to use the Revenant with a soldier so its bad is basically what he's saying.

[JaegerBane]

Ulysseslotro wrote...
Well if you want to play as a half-assed Vanguard you may aswell play a Vanguard.  They can take stuff down fast and have protection and speed with charge.  So Rambo Revs must fight great from short, medium and long range for them to be all around great assault rifle.  They can't though, as soon as your in a long range fight you suck ballz.  In a medium ranged fight you still do pathetic damage.  It is when you play like a Vanguard that you do alot of damage with Rev.

This doesn't make Rev > than other weapons.  It just means there is a half-assed Vanguard someone could choose to play.  And that is what this entire thread boils down too.  I am saying that I don't think he should play the game a 2nd time with Soldier and pick up the Rev because he could just play the Vanguard class and get a better experience from that.  Or better yet choose an Engineer or Adept and have a completely new and different experience.

*scratches head*

Ulysses, I have to admit that I haven't got the faintest idea as to what you're talking about. I'm not quite sure how the concept that different weapons have different effective ranges, or even the ability to move, translates as playing as a half-assed Vanguard'. Nor do I understand how playing as Engineers or Adepts has any relevance.

In comparison to a Sniper Rifle, the rev doesn't exactly shine at long range. It doesn't 'suck ballz' however - so long as the gun is fired in bursts it's actually reasonable, and it's very high damage multipliers, combined with it's relatively high base damage per shot for a fully automatic weapon, mean that it's a good choice fro practically any range. It's adequate for longer ranged fighting (thought not quite as effective as a Sniper Rifle) and it is superior to practically everything else at short to medium range.

That's the issue. The fact that it's effective at every kind of range.

[A Fhaol Bhig]

fightingmonkey94 wrote...

Rev is a close to mid range weapon the widows is long range they are desinded for different situations so Ulysseslotro how can you call it a fair general purpose test if you perform said taste in a situation best suited to snipers. All this proves is that the widow is better at long range as it was decinded to be

EXACTLY!

[Spyndel]

rumination888 wrote...


www.youtube.com/watch

Ulysseslotro wrote...

I beat RamsenC's time without using
squadmates.  It proved Widow > Rev on Soldier.  Your run was just
icing on the cake to that point.

You beat him by using Widow + Vindicator. RamsenC did it with Revenant only. I gaurantee that if he switched to the Viper for parts of the battle, he'd beat your 2nd time easily.

SAY JELLO TO MY LIL FRENG!!!!

[RighteousRage]

Let's be perfectly honest though, the revenant is utter trash at long range. Considering this game is about people with guns and not lightsabers (cough cough Athenau) I would reckon that the weapon which is superior at longer ranges would make more sense. But yes, you are right, if you're 5 feet away from your enemy, the revenant will most likely kill it faster than the widow so there is no comparison.

P.S. before you flame this post, yes I realize you can make up for the lack of widow with the viper or incisor, just as you can make up for the lack of revenant with a vindicator or shotguns

Modifié par RighteousRage, 28 février 2010 - 11:21 .

[JaegerBane]

RighteousRage wrote...

Let's be perfectly honest though, the revenant is utter trash at long range.

...if fired on full auto.

[Kronner]

rumination888 wrote...

Vanguards are only godly at short range. Likewise, Infiltrators are godly at long range. A well-played Soldier is great at short, medium, and long range. That is the Soldier's strength.

www.youtube.com/watch

Great vid, what level are you? 16 or so?

[rumination888]

Kronner wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

Vanguards are only godly at short range. Likewise, Infiltrators are godly at long range. A well-played Soldier is great at short, medium, and long range. That is the Soldier's strength.

www.youtube.com/watch

Great vid, what level are you? 16 or so?

19, exact same as my Infiltrator speedrun.