163 réponses à ce sujet

[kromm71]

Ulysseslotro wrote...

Athenau wrote...

Well I thought they got a 1.25 bonus as short range but your right it doesn't. He had two days to perfect that time. I did it in an hour. As far as Revenant killing faster than Widow; well keep dreaming.

You're seriously retarded if you think the Widow kills faster at close range. I've taken down two guys in one adrenaline rush and another during the cooldown with the Revenant (and yes this is on insanity).

You're seriously mentally ill.  You defend Revenant like you have Stockholm Syndrome over it.  Vids prove Widow a faster killer.

Excellent banter back and forth Ulysses and Athenau.  I had tears rolling down my cheeks from laughing so hard.  I thoroughly enjoyed this thread. 

Cudos to the poster that commented that this thread has gotten silly by Even this forum's standards, where the debate of silly is generally accepted and considered reasonable, productive and somehow beneficial.

Athenau should get points for generally being slightly less silly than the majority of posters (myself included) except of course for the fact that he could not abide by Ulysses extreme silliness of insisting that silly videos somehow grant legitimacy to defending a silly position in a silly debate.  How does time in a speed run in a memorized arena prove the superioty of a single weapon when both are completely disparate?  In a single player game no less?

Ulysses should be awarded points for getting out of bed in the morning and trying.  He made this thread and would not take no or outright dismissal for an answer. 

I actually have to kind of half-ass agree with Ulysses comment on why play a soldier as a half-assed vangaurd or half assed infiltrator.  But I think the point may more accurately be made that the soldier was a purest class in ME1 and the Vangaurd a hybrid.  In ME2, the soldier appears to be a more generalist class while the Vanguard is more "pure" CQC.

My first playthrough was with a Vangaurd and she did extremely well at close range and it was kind of nail bitting fun to be extremely aggressive, but she lacked at longer ranges.  The soldier is not nearly impressive at CQC, but is quite competently equipped to deal with a variety of encounters.

So back to Ulysses  point that "rev"ing it up with a Soldier in CQC is kinda half-assed Vanguardish.  It can be done but won't be as fun as a "pure" Vangaurd.  The soldier has to turtle up too often which breaks agressive continuity and point blank smgs with their high rate of fire are quite rude and not easliy dismissed.

[rumination888]

blank1 wrote...

Effectiveness is just as subjective as "fun," when effective to one person may mean versatility and ammo capacity, and just as easily mean speed of enemy death to another.

Ammo capacity, versatility, etc. in a vacuum is meaningless. The goal of the game is to get from one point to the other, and to do so generally means you have to kill enemies. Ammo capacity and versatility all play a role in the speed at which you accomplish that.

rt604 wrote...

Were your teammates miranda and thane?

Yes.

[sinosleep]

@Rumination888 holy ****ing **** was that soldier video absolutely friggen INSANE.

*bows* 

Modifié par sinosleep, 01 mars 2010 - 04:48 .

[SpezXVII]

rumination888 wrote...

Vanguards are only godly at short range. Likewise, Infiltrators are godly at long range. A well-played Soldier is great at short, medium, and long range. That is the Soldier's strength.

www.youtube.com/watch

And that is exactly how a Soldier should  be played. You have all those weapons for a reason. No single weapon in the game is a "world-ender" but when you utilize each for their strengths, you can acheive an incredible synergy and dominate. Bravo.

Modifié par SpezXVII, 01 mars 2010 - 04:54 .

[blank1]

rumination888 wrote...

blank1 wrote...

Effectiveness is just as subjective as "fun," when effective to one person may mean versatility and ammo capacity, and just as easily mean speed of enemy death to another.

Ammo capacity, versatility, etc. in a vacuum is meaningless. The goal of the game is to get from one point to the other, and to do so generally means you have to kill enemies. Ammo capacity and versatility all play a role in the speed at which you accomplish that.

rt604 wrote...

Were your teammates miranda and thane?

Yes.

I think you're failing to see this objectively (irony is ironic). The definition of "effectiveness" is not rigid in "how fast did I get from point A to point B." It could also be judged by how often you died. In speaking of weapon effectiveness, that could also be judged by how reliant another weapon is upon another weapon in order to be fully useful -- IE, the Widow isn't a stand alone game destroyer. You still require something with higher capacity. The Revenant, however, makes every other weapon optional. It could be judged that this is a truer sign of "effectiveness," or otherwise.

Even if you wanted to speak from the postion of "Point A to Point B" in the fastest amount of time possible, assuming that one doesn't skip parts with Adrenaline Rush, Cloak, or Charge, it's still easily arguable that a Soldier wielding a Revenant would clear it faster... or perhaps not? There's no real evidence, and even if there were a video, there's no way to quantify player skill.

Basically, this argument sucks.

[blank1]

sinosleep wrote...

@Rumination888 holy ****ing **** was that soldier video absolutely friggen INSANE.

*bows* 

I liked how he walked over his Viper while shooting the whole time to the Scion. :3

[rumination888]

blank1 wrote...

I think you're failing to see this objectively (irony is ironic). The definition of "effectiveness" is not rigid in "how fast did I get from point A to point B." It could also be judged by how often you died. In speaking of weapon effectiveness, that could also be judged by how reliant another weapon is upon another weapon in order to be fully useful -- IE, the Widow isn't a stand alone game destroyer. You still require something with higher capacity. The Revenant, however, makes every other weapon optional. It could be judged that this is a truer sign of "effectiveness," or otherwise.

Even if you wanted to speak from the postion of "Point A to Point B" in the fastest amount of time possible, assuming that one doesn't skip parts with Adrenaline Rush, Cloak, or Charge, it's still easily arguable that a Soldier wielding a Revenant would clear it faster... or perhaps not? There's no real evidence, and even if there were a video, there's no way to quantify player skill.

Basically, this argument sucks.

I somewhat agree, but when people argue about how X will clear faster than Y, then it ceases to be subjective. Thats clear cut, hence; it can be quantified.

[blank1]

If we're speaking about *that* part, yes. But I found it amusing that the instance of the Collector Ship platform stage was somehow translated into the Widow being better than the Revenant in the scope of the entire game. I find the whole argument silly, but I'm posting on an internet forum about a science fiction game infested with furries. I'm not really too concerned with appearing silly.

Modifié par blank1, 01 mars 2010 - 05:13 .

[atheelogos]

Sflopssy wrote...

I say choose a different class. Of all the assault rifles, I feel the vindicator to be the best. It's only drawback being ammo consumption. The revenant is a very nice gun. The damage is nice as well as the ammo count. But it just isn't accurate enough for my taste (even during adrenaline rush). I have the upgrades as well which helps to a degree. After the first couple of rounds, the shots don't go quite where I want them too. I wish I had chosen the widow.
I am being very picky based just on accuracy though. If your already that far through, I suggest seeing it through. Then try a different class for a new challenge. Its just one tool of destruction in a game filled lots many more that are just as fun.

Yeah same here. I'm starting my soldier over so I can get the widow. After that I'll do my insanity run.

[Sflopssy]

This thread has almost come full circle. I wonder what the topic creator decided to do with his play through.

[JaegerBane]

Sflopssy wrote...

This thread has almost come full circle. I wonder what the topic creator decided to do with his play through.

Played an engineer

[Mossa_missa]

If you going to use the Widowe roll infiltrator... Revenant is way to good to pass on as soldier.

[Urazz]

rumination888 wrote...

blank1 wrote...

I think you're failing to see this objectively (irony is ironic). The definition of "effectiveness" is not rigid in "how fast did I get from point A to point B." It could also be judged by how often you died. In speaking of weapon effectiveness, that could also be judged by how reliant another weapon is upon another weapon in order to be fully useful -- IE, the Widow isn't a stand alone game destroyer. You still require something with higher capacity. The Revenant, however, makes every other weapon optional. It could be judged that this is a truer sign of "effectiveness," or otherwise.

Even if you wanted to speak from the postion of "Point A to Point B" in the fastest amount of time possible, assuming that one doesn't skip parts with Adrenaline Rush, Cloak, or Charge, it's still easily arguable that a Soldier wielding a Revenant would clear it faster... or perhaps not? There's no real evidence, and even if there were a video, there's no way to quantify player skill.

Basically, this argument sucks.

I somewhat agree, but when people argue about how X will clear faster than Y, then it ceases to be subjective. Thats clear cut, hence; it can be quantified.

Not only that but the platform section of the collector ship is easily more designed to maximize the effectiveness of the widow since you don't really have to move much at all when using just a sniper rifle for that part.

But that wasn't even why people were arguing why the revenant was better for soldiers than the widow.  The argument is that the revenant with the other weapons a soldier can carry is better suited for the different scenarios than relying on the Widow/Vindicator.

I'd like to see a video of how someone with the Widow/Vindicator does against that big group of husks at the end of the level.

[Spyndel]

You know, Im always amazed when people say the kickback on the Revenant was too much for them. It seems a pretty easy thing to me to compensate for...its almost like theyre playing a different game from me. I'm no master video game shootist by any measure by any stretch.



And then it occurred to me, maybe they are. I imagine the Rev is perhaps a bit more frustrating to control on the console version with an analog stick, and that kind of syrupy console shooter feel, than it is on the PC with the PC's naturally superior control scheme for shooters. Maybe its a platform difference.



Anyone have the opportunity to play both versions? Maybe the Rev really does suck on some versions of the game.

[blank1]

Recoil control does seem like it would be more difficult on an Xbox controller.



I pulse the Revenant in long 4-5 shot bursts, and maintain high accuracy all the way out to medium range. The reticule doesn't really bloom until 5 shots, so if you let off for just a moment, it resets the whole reticule... it's not even proper "burst" firing, it's like sightly controlled full auto.



I'm thinking I should make a Soldier video on that platform, but I don't want to be bothered to actually get to that point with *another* Soldier, just to quit at that point :x. If anything, it wouldn't show how OP the Revenant is, it would show how OP Adrenaline Rush is. 50% damage mitigation, 50% time dilation, 100% damage boost.

[RighteousRage]

Urazz wrote...

I'd like to see a video of how someone with the Widow/Vindicator does against that big group of husks at the end of the level.

I beat it without once dying, in a few seconds (didn't count), with this setup. As in, I have never died with this setup on this scene - ever.

[A Fhaol Bhig]

I keep on saying over and over,

Rev'=Good in many situations, especially close close to medium, and amazing at short range.

Widow=good in many situations if you have the cover, and amazing at long range.

Strengths and weaknesses for each.
End of story.

Spyndel wrote...

You know, Im always amazed when people say the kickback on the Revenant was too much for them. It seems a pretty easy thing to me to compensate for...its almost like theyre playing a different game from me. I'm no master video game shootist by any measure by any stretch.

And then it occurred to me, maybe they are. I imagine the Rev is perhaps a bit more frustrating to control on the console version with an analog stick, and that kind of syrupy console shooter feel, than it is on the PC with the PC's naturally superior control scheme for shooters. Maybe its a platform difference.

Anyone have the opportunity to play both versions? Maybe the Rev really does suck on some versions of the game.

No, you just suck with the analog stick I guess. Because I use the xbox, and I don't have any problem landing headshots. (I don't mean that in an offensive way, I'm just saying that your more used to PC than Console)

naturally superior control scheme? Personal opinion, I've seen you to be a reletivly unbiased person until you posted that remark. What changed? I can do just fine on a PC and the Console, I have no difference in skill whatever one I play, and I rarely ever play PC because Mine isn't powerful enough to play most games, so its just when I'm at a friends house. I kill as many people as I do on a console version. The difference is preference, not whats better.

[King Eselred]

rumination888 wrote...

Vanguards are only godly at short range. Likewise, Infiltrators are godly at long range. A well-played Soldier is great at short, medium, and long range. That is the Soldier's strength.

www.youtube.com/watch

That video is awesome.  Soldiers are the best.  The Revenant is a beast, and I love using the Viper to rapid-fire down some far-away targets.

~90 seconds to clear the platforms on Insanity.  Bravo.

[A Fhaol Bhig]

King Eselred wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

Vanguards are only godly at short range. Likewise, Infiltrators are godly at long range. A well-played Soldier is great at short, medium, and long range. That is the Soldier's strength.

www.youtube.com/watch

That video is awesome.  Soldiers are the best.  The Revenant is a beast, and I love using the Viper to rapid-fire down some far-away targets.

~90 seconds to clear the platforms on Insanity.  Bravo.

That was an amazing run, but this tops even that.


Vangard on insanity, killing the geth colossus by himself XD

off-topic I know, but its so cool >.>

Modifié par A Fhaol Bhig, 01 mars 2010 - 10:33 .

[JaegerBane]

A Fhaol Bhig wrote...

King Eselred wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

Vanguards are only godly at short range. Likewise, Infiltrators are godly at long range. A well-played Soldier is great at short, medium, and long range. That is the Soldier's strength.

www.youtube.com/watch

That video is awesome.  Soldiers are the best.  The Revenant is a beast, and I love using the Viper to rapid-fire down some far-away targets.

~90 seconds to clear the platforms on Insanity.  Bravo.

That was an amazing run, but this tops even that.


Vangard on insanity, killing the geth colossus by himself XD

off-topic I know, but its so cool >.>

That video was possibly too awesome.

[Spyndel]

Spyndel wrote...

You know, Im always amazed when people say the kickback on the Revenant was too much for them. It seems a pretty easy thing to me to compensate for...its almost like theyre playing a different game from me. I'm no master video game shootist by any measure by any stretch.

And then it occurred to me, maybe they are. I imagine the Rev is perhaps a bit more frustrating to control on the console version with an analog stick, and that kind of syrupy console shooter feel, than it is on the PC with the PC's naturally superior control scheme for shooters. Maybe its a platform difference.

Anyone have the opportunity to play both versions? Maybe the Rev really does suck on some versions of the game.

No, you just suck with the analog stick I guess. Because I use the xbox, and I don't have any problem landing headshots. (I don't mean that in an offensive way, I'm just saying that your more used to PC than Console)

naturally superior control scheme? Personal opinion, I've seen you to be a reletivly unbiased person until you posted that remark. What changed? I can do just fine on a PC and the Console, I have no difference in skill whatever one I play, and I rarely ever play PC because Mine isn't powerful enough to play most games, so its just when I'm at a friends house. I kill as many people as I do on a console version. The difference is preference, not whats better.

I'm sorry bud, I didnt mean to kick sand in the face of your console, but its widely recognized that a mouse keyboard scheme is superior and more responsive for twitch aiming in shooters by its nature, just as a traditional console controller is going to be superior  for other types of button mashing or platforming games.  Its not really an "opinion", so much as something thats taken for granted.


Im not putting down consoles, I own several, and there are certain types of games I wouldnt even consider playing on the PC.  But just because you do *just fine*, doesnt mean certain platforms have strengths others dont. And nobody in their right mind would go to a LAN tournament and game against players using mouse and keyboard FPS controls with a gamepad.

I was just trying to figure out if maybe there was a legitimate reason for a lot of people saying the kickback on the REv was too much for them. I couldnt understand it since it seems easy to me, but I thought I may not be seeing the larger picture, because the majority of people here are probably playing the console version.

Modifié par Spyndel, 01 mars 2010 - 10:42 .

[sinosleep]

@A Fhaol Bhig



I don't want this to degrade into a console vs PC debate but I have to chime in here. There's a reason that games like Left 4 Dead have to use a button instead of simply using the joy stick in order to do a quick 180. A thumbpad tries to duplicate on a half inch surface with your thumb what you can do on a whole desk of space and your entire hand. It comes close, but it is NOT the same thing. It's simply not possible.



And before anyone tries to start some ****, I have every console AND a gaming rig, so no it's not fanboyism.

[A Fhaol Bhig]

JaegerBane wrote...

A Fhaol Bhig wrote...

King Eselred wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

Vanguards are only godly at short range. Likewise, Infiltrators are godly at long range. A well-played Soldier is great at short, medium, and long range. That is the Soldier's strength.

www.youtube.com/watch

That video is awesome.  Soldiers are the best.  The Revenant is a beast, and I love using the Viper to rapid-fire down some far-away targets.

~90 seconds to clear the platforms on Insanity.  Bravo.

That was an amazing run, but this tops even that.


Vangard on insanity, killing the geth colossus by himself XD

off-topic I know, but its so cool >.>

That video was possibly too awesome.

I know! this guy is way awesome!

[A Fhaol Bhig]

sinosleep wrote...

@A Fhaol Bhig

I don't want this to degrade into a console vs PC debate but I have to chime in here. There's a reason that games like Left 4 Dead have to use a button instead of simply using the joy stick in order to do a quick 180. A thumbpad tries to duplicate on a half inch surface with your thumb what you can do on a whole desk of space and your entire hand. It comes close, but it is NOT the same thing. It's simply not possible.

And before anyone tries to start some ****, I have every console AND a gaming rig, so no it's not fanboyism.

...I was just saying it comes down to preference. I wasn't accusing anyone of anything, and if it sounded like I did, I worded my sentance wrong. He acted superior, and I wanted to point out a person can do just as good on any system. It comes down to what you like better.

[sinosleep]

@Fhaol Bhig

I didn't think your post implied that, I was just preemptively nipping that line of logic in the bud. Discussion on controller/mouse/keyboard comparisons always seem to devolve into console vs pc name calling wars. So I just thought I'd go ahead and show photo evidence that considering the money I've spent on my tv and consoles, there's no damned way I'm some kind of console hating PC fanboy.