119 réponses à ce sujet

[BattleVisor]

X2-Elijah wrote...

Wormholes are the best bet for FTL travel, as they are technically permitted in contemporary physical universe.

Wormholes = pure fantasy

[Tamahome560]

Lmaoboat wrote...

ace1221 wrote...

ah, but do we know for sure there is no substance like in EEZO? in science there are no answers only more questions. however, it does seem quite fantastical

Do we know for sure there is not a china teapot revolving about the sun between Earth and Mars in an elliptical orbit?

Read you wikipedia     It's not official though and probbably does not exist  really ...


On a serious note : With the physics models we have as of today, Mass Relays would not be possible but models change over time so we cannot tell for sure that they aren't possible.

Edit: Sorry I messed up the hyperlink ... 

Modifié par Tamahome560, 28 février 2010 - 10:06 .

[Shadowrun1177]

BattleVisor wrote...

X2-Elijah wrote...

Wormholes are the best bet for FTL travel, as they are technically permitted in contemporary physical universe.

Wormholes = pure fantasy

Uhm Wormholes aren't pure fantasy, niether are they fact. Right now they have not been proven to exist or not, they are only hypothetical which means they could exist but they may not it hasn't been proven one way or the other yet. Time and science wil prove them one way or the other if we live to see it proven or disproven time will tell on that too.

Modifié par Shadowrun1177, 28 février 2010 - 10:14 .

[adam_grif]

Ok, this is where I get a little fuzzy about it. Are both ships travelling at 0.866c away from the same relative start point in opposite directions? If so, isn't the time dilation equal for both, and therefore wouldn't they both observe their clocks to tick at the same speed? If not, why? I got to Advanced Physics in Uni at 2nd year, but this stuff did my head in and I dropped it, and admit to never fully grasping relativity properly, so please bear with the fool and entertain my silly questions.

Mmmn, I'm repeating it as it was explained to me (I'm something of a layman like yourself). I've seen multiple professional sources use similar examples to the one I just gave, so I'm assuming that no, they don't experience things simultaneously. As I understand it, it's your velocity that is important for the time dilation calcs, not speed, and velocity by definition has a direction component.

hey if time slows down when your traveling faster ill live for long.... shame it wont be happening

Aww. Don't be like that. If you get into a rocket ship that goes at 0.99999999 times the speed of light or so, you can traverse the entire visible universe in your lifetime, but when you slow back down and return to Earth, more than 30 billion years will have passed on Earth.

Everything is possible, in the universe. The elements we discovered are only on earth, theres also dark matter that scientists have absolutely no idea what it is.

The statement "everything is possible" can be easily disproven using logic.



Consider:



If anything is possible, then impossibility is impossible. If impossibility is impossible, then not anything is possible.

It's not official though and probbably does not exist really ...

Your link goes to Neutronium, which is just a collection of neutrons. I hate to be the one to break it to you, but neutrons are not electrically active in any way, so trying to pass a current through it to create mass effect fields would be an exercise in futility.

[adam_grif]

Oh, and in case anybody is wondering, getting to other stars is no problem. It's just slow.



For a Realistic ™ space craft, don't expect it to exceed 10% of lightspeed. Antimatter drives like the Valkyrie can get up to .92, but getting to high relativistic velocities is dangerous because interstellar hydrogen is suddenly rushing up against your hull with astounding energies, bombarding you with deadly radiation.

[vometia]

ReconTeam wrote...

You know, some people are so pessimistic. I'll be killing giant space bugs while your saying that wormhole over there shouldn't technically exist. I'll send you a corpse.

It's true.  People also said you'd suffocate if you could travel at more than 60mph (or was it 30?)  That said, I hedge my bets and hold my breath while travelling, even if it does mean I've gone a funny shade of purple by the time I arrive.

[max_ai]

TheUnusualSuspect wrote...

adam_grif wrote...

Two spaceships, A and B are moving apart from each other at 0.866 times the speed of light. This is chosen for convenience' sake. It reults in a time dilation factor of two, which means that the from A's perspective, B's clock is ticking at half speed and vice versa.

Ok, this is where I get a little fuzzy about it.  Are both ships travelling at 0.866c away from the same relative start point in opposite directions?  If so, isn't the time dilation equal for both, and therefore wouldn't they both observe their clocks to tick at the same speed?  If not, why?  I got to Advanced Physics in Uni at 2nd year, but this stuff did my head in and I dropped it, and admit to never fully grasping relativity properly, so please bear with the fool and entertain my silly questions.

Since the ships move in constant speed then they'll observe their clocks just as you'd observe your own clock, but if ship A wants to measure the clock of ship B (or its location) then relative effects come in.
A measures the speed of B to be roughly 0.99c

Anywho special relativity isn't very helpful for such scenarios (if they were to happen), because ships tend accelerate, and special relativity doesn't take that into account. You need to account for red shift and stuff (who's red-shifting, who's not), basically it's general relativity already, which is by far more complicated.

[superimposed]

BattleVisor wrote...

X2-Elijah wrote...

Wormholes are the best bet for FTL travel, as they are technically permitted in contemporary physical universe.

Wormholes = pure fantasy

Bad science to dismiss them.

So far they are unlikely, but if time travel is plausible, surely shrinking space is.

[adam_grif]

vometia wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

You know, some people are so pessimistic. I'll be killing giant space bugs while your saying that wormhole over there shouldn't technically exist. I'll send you a corpse.

It's true.  People also said you'd suffocate if you could travel at more than 60mph (or was it 30?)  That said, I hedge my bets and hold my breath while travelling, even if it does mean I've gone a funny shade of purple by the time I arrive.

False analogy. Just because some moron claimed that you would suffocate going at high speeds doesn't mean that the scientific community was behind that idea or that there was any strong theoretical basis for it to happen.

Don't compare it to the sound barrier or flying to the moon, because "naysayers" does not equal "theoretically impossible". People who claimed we'd never make it to the moon were expressing engineering concerns, not physical ones.

This is a massively important distinction to make, since Newton and Einstein never said jack about being able to go to the moon or exceed the sound barrier. TWe'd been to Orbit, so getting to the moon was a matter of cleverly designing your rocket to go that extra mile with passengers on board.

Compare to exceeding lightspeed, which is something that doesn't make sense, physically. There was never a fundamental physical law that states "you can't go to the moon", but there is one that states "you can't go faster than light". And we've tested it, rigerrously. You know about particle accelerators? Well, it turns out that the exact effects predicted by relativity, gaining mass as you approach the speed of light, is real! And that no-matter how much energy you pump in, you can't ever get it to go that extra mile.

The aforementioned FTL = time paradox connection is the result of the interaction of a few different effects of relativity, all of which have been confirmed in experimentation. The GPS satellites have to be resynchronized with Earth time regularly because they slowly desynch thanks to gravitational time dilation.

This link may shed some additional light onto the subject.

[max_ai]

adam_grif wrote...

Compare to exceeding lightspeed, which is something that doesn't make sense, physically. There was never a fundamental physical law that states "you can't go to the moon", but there is one that states "you can't go faster than light". And we've tested it, rigerrously. You know about particle accelerators? Well, it turns out that the exact effects predicted by relativity, gaining mass as you approach the speed of light, is real! And that no-matter how much energy you pump in, you can't ever get it to go that extra mile.

The aforementioned FTL = time paradox connection is the result of the interaction of a few different effects of relativity, all of which have been confirmed in experimentation. The GPS satellites have to be resynchronized with Earth time regularly because they slowly desynch thanks to gravitational time dilation.

FTL =/= time paradox.
More than that in fact, FTL was already tested in labs, around two decades ago.
No theory claims that you can't go faster than light, but relativity theory tells that a normal particle can't go at the speed of light. Those are two different things.
This is still bad news for FTL travel, because the engines increase the speed in a continuous way. So, if FTL travel was possible it couldn't be achieved with any engine you might think of.
There are other problems with FTL still, but that's not for the forums.

[vometia]

adam_grif wrote...

False analogy. Just because some moron claimed that you would suffocate going at high speeds doesn't mean that the scientific community was behind that idea or that there was any strong theoretical basis for it to happen.

Perhaps my facetiousness wasn't appreciated, but it was more aimed at imagination than scientific principle.  Though the latter could sometimes do with a bit more of the former, I suspect: scientists can sometimes be a bit too set in their ways.

I shall be travelling at more than 30 mph this afternoon.  Wish me luck.

[Kurt M.]

Rodriguer2000 wrote...

 seems crazy but its the only way i see us traveling to distant planets lol real life mass relays

Humanity will rot in Earth. Period.

We even lack the technology to regurarly travel thought our own solar system (and it doesn't matter anyway, as there aren't garden worlds here apart from the Earth). We'll never have the tech required to travel around our nebula for sure, and much less to travel around the Milky Way. At most we could colonize the Moon, Mars, and a few Jupiter moons, and the latter option is already extremely improbable. Again, it doesn't matter, because nearly all the resources would need to come from Earth anyway.

I've the theory that maybe if religions wouldn't have existed (they've been a BIG slowdown in science), and humanity wouldn't have been so stupidly selfish, then maybe by now we'd have at least regular travel thought our solar system, a few viable colonies, and Helium-3 engines. And with such a good base, we would still be in trouble.

The only *REALISTIC* chance we have is that any other sapient species find us and teach us how to space-travel, much like the hanar did to the drells. If not, we'll end like them. And it's highly improbable, too

[adam_grif]

No theory claims that you can't go faster than light, but relativity theory tells that a normal particle can't go at the speed of light. Those are two different things.

Relativity says that the speed of massless particles and fields in a perfect vacuum is C and that since mass increases with velocity (particularly high velocities), it can never hope to exceed it.

C is also the maximum speed at which physical information may be transmitted. This is important, because:

More than that in fact, FTL was already tested in labs, around two decades ago.

I'm assuming you're discussing quantum teleportation (because that's the one most often brought up). I didn't think I needed to define it above, but when people say "FTL is impossible", what they actually mean by "FTL" is:

Information propagating at a speed greater than C.

Quantum entanglement, virtual particles, hypothetical tachyons and so on, which are phenomena that "go faster than light", do not transmit information at a speed greater than C. Here, "information" is defined as 'the ability to exert a causal influence'. For QE specifically, see the No-Communications Theorem.

I just found that Wiki has some things to say on the subject too (makes for an interesting read).

Make sure you read all of the Superficially and Actually FTL phenomena on the page, and take note that none of them can be used to violate the SoL for information transfer.

[Annjul666]

maybe in future if we dont kill each other. i think that posibility of having such universe like mass effect or star wars is pretty high. who knows, what the humanity will invent by there, or what technology will we obtain from aliens. we are not that lucky to see that coming, however.
now lets get down to the ground, shall we?

Modifié par Annjul666, 28 février 2010 - 11:12 .

[locowolfie]

As far as i know FTL by way of speed is improbible not impossible. You can go faster that light in theory, but it whould need an infinite amount of energy which is not avalibly to us at this time.
Also the time dilation that would occure makes it an unrealistic mode of transport. The fact that if you whould travel to proxima centauri (the closest star to earth) wich is 4,22 light years away by the time you got back to earth around 9 years would have passed.

However the more realistic way would be to fold space in on itself, or a space fold drive if you will.
this would function on the theory of the Einstein-Rosen bridges

Modifié par locowolfie, 28 février 2010 - 11:34 .

[silverfoxIII]

Interesting stuff, i love reading about space,ftl etc who doesn't find it fascinating.

[max_ai]

adam_grif wrote...
Make sure you read all of the Superficially and Actually FTL phenomena on the page, and take note that none of them can be used to violate the SoL for information transfer. 

That's cute , sadly I don't consider wiki as a reliable source of information.
Anywho, you don't have to resort to semi-theoretical particles, you can take much simpler example, like phase velocity of certain waves.
Alas, in all those cases information does not transfer. And if this is what you were talking about then yes, it's true you can't transfer information at FTL speeds, otherwise causality problems arise.

[GenericPlayer2]

locowolfie wrote...

As far as i know FTL by way of speed is improbible not impossible. You can go faster that light in theory, but it whould need an infinite amount of energy which is not avalibly to us at this time.
Also the time dilation that would occure makes it an unrealistic mode of transport. The fact that if you whould travel to proxima centauri (the closest star to earth) wich is 4,22 light years away by the time you got back to earth around 9 years would have passed.

However the more realistic way would be to fold space in on itself, or a space fold drive if you will.
this would function on the theory of the Einstein-Rosen bridges

I think if we ever get the tech to travel that fast, we would probably have developed AIs by then to function as crew and pilots. We would rely on machines for exploration given the travel time involved and other unknowns.

[adam_grif]

max_ai wrote...

adam_grif wrote...
Make sure you read all of the Superficially and Actually FTL phenomena on the page, and take note that none of them can be used to violate the SoL for information transfer. 

That's cute , sadly I don't consider wiki as a reliable source of information.
Anywho, you don't have to resort to semi-theoretical particles, you can take much simpler example, like phase velocity of certain waves.
Alas, in all those cases information does not transfer. And if this is what you were talking about then yes, it's true you can't transfer information at FTL speeds, otherwise causality problems arise.

I would be very disappointed if you did just trust wiki blindly, but fortunately you don't have to. The page is sourced

Regardless, the information part is the real kicker. Without it, we're stuck with retroactively concluding that "oh, yes, it did in fact go faster than c", but with no method for actually doing anything useful with it in speed terms.

Not sure if it's on that list or not, but iirc electrons tunnelling can be coaxed into FTL also, but with the same no information transfer caveat.

[SnakieHelah]

There is a theory that light has mass, if so FTL might be possible, but not now, we can't even travel around or own solar system, and since some people here said we will rot in earth, that is like saying Cavemen will rot in caves. If you know what I mean.

[superimposed]

Gladiador2 wrote...

Rodriguer2000 wrote...

 seems crazy but its the only way i see us traveling to distant planets lol real life mass relays

Humanity will rot in Earth. Period.

We even lack the technology to regurarly travel thought our own solar system (and it doesn't matter anyway, as there aren't garden worlds here apart from the Earth). We'll never have the tech required to travel around our nebula for sure, and much less to travel around the Milky Way. At most we could colonize the Moon, Mars, and a few Jupiter moons, and the latter option is already extremely improbable. Again, it doesn't matter, because nearly all the resources would need to come from Earth anyway.

I've the theory that maybe if religions wouldn't have existed (they've been a BIG slowdown in science), and humanity wouldn't have been so stupidly selfish, then maybe by now we'd have at least regular travel thought our solar system, a few viable colonies, and Helium-3 engines. And with such a good base, we would still be in trouble.

The only *REALISTIC* chance we have is that any other sapient species find us and teach us how to space-travel, much like the hanar did to the drells. If not, we'll end like them. And it's highly improbable, too

It took us over 200 years since the Industrial Revolution to get a manned Rocket to the Moon. It took us only forty years after that to make a manned Rocket to Mars Plausible. Technology grows at an exponentially increasing rate.

[Ecael]

The only *REALISTIC* chance we have is that any other sapient species find us and teach us how to space-travel, much like the hanar did to the drells. If not, we'll end like them. And it's highly improbable, too

Probabilities suggest that this is the likely fate of humans. Current celestial bodies in our own solar system apart from Earth do not have the definitive resources to support human development.

[locowolfie]

GenericPlayer2 wrote...

locowolfie wrote...

As far as i know FTL by way of speed is improbible not impossible. You can go faster that light in theory, but it whould need an infinite amount of energy which is not avalibly to us at this time.
Also the time dilation that would occure makes it an unrealistic mode of transport. The fact that if you whould travel to proxima centauri (the closest star to earth) wich is 4,22 light years away by the time you got back to earth around 9 years would have passed.

However the more realistic way would be to fold space in on itself, or a space fold drive if you will.
this would function on the theory of the Einstein-Rosen bridges

I think if we ever get the tech to travel that fast, we would probably have developed AIs by then to function as crew and pilots. We would rely on machines for exploration given the travel time involved and other unknowns.

but we are still human its in our nature to want to "see" the galaxy with our own eyes. besides the whole point is that it would still take to long, i mean the centauri system is the closest and that whould already take close to 10 years (if you count that the moment you start traveling its an instant exeleration to the speed of light is attained)

[Hellhawx]

With the exception of futuristic technology in Mass Effect. The game is holds true to what is realistic. The only unrealistic item is Eezo, its effect and cause of Mass Effect fields, which all surrounds Dark Energy.

Dark Energy does exist in real life. It is being studied. Nothing is known about it except that it may exist in black holes. Will some sort of tech similar to Eezo ever be discovered, probably not a chance. Will we ever be able to travel Light Speed? Probably not. At least in Mass Effect, they keep science realistic even under the fiction of FTL travel (like red shift, etc.)