36 réponses à ce sujet

[Abyss_666]

I wanted to ask a question to you about tanking.For my next playthrough I'm thinking about going another route for alistair.I usually built him as a dex tank but this time I'm thinking about going con tank with him.I know the advantages of both builds con tank has lots of health and dex tank avoids most attacks.Another advantage of building alistair as a con tank are the con boosts he gets when you raise his approval
so what's your oppinion on dex tank vs. con tank?

[RavenousBear]

If you have The Stone Prisoner DLC, Shale is a Con tank. In my opinion, Dex tanks > Con tanks with a Dex tank you pump points into dexterity which also increases your attack score.

[Abyss_666]

Caak7i wrote...

If you have The Stone Prisoner DLC, Shale is a Con tank. In my opinion, Dex tanks > Con tanks with a Dex tank you pump points into dexterity which also increases your attack score.

not on console unfortunately

[RavenousBear]

Dexterity does increase your attack score on consoles, the damage is where it is bugged. Every 2 points spent on Dexterity increases your attack score by 1 point.

[Matheau]

There really isn't that much benefit to Con tanks. Warriors are going to end up with a decent amount of health, no matter what. The ability to completely negate an attack with high Dexterity is going to virtually always outweigh having higher Constitution.

[kasanza]

Why not just put your points into strength? That way you armor can be in the 40's and your damage will be in the 80's to 100, plus that gives high attack. Seems like the all around best choice for any warrior... even defensive Shale rocks when designed this way.

[Abyss_666]

Caak7i wrote...

Dexterity does increase your attack score on consoles, the damage is where it is bugged. Every 2 points spent on Dexterity increases your attack score by 1 point.

ohh right I confused attack score with damage for a moment.Alright so judging from the replys I should just build him as a dex tank again right?Any points in will because of the templar spec?

[kasanza]

Seriously, I just push dex to 26 for board and sword requirements. The rest I put into strength and once Alistair wears massive armor, can't be flanked and maxes out Shield Wall, he never dies. He's the only companion I never micro-manage and he always hits for over 60 and sometimes 80 or 90. His defense will end up being slightly over 100 with Shield Wall, and higher with the champion aura. Remember, with strength that will help your team kill enemies alot quicker.

[Abyss_666]

kasanza wrote...

Seriously, I just push dex to 26 for board and sword requirements. The rest I put into strength and once Alistair wears massive armor, can't be flanked and maxes out Shield Wall, he never dies. He's the only companion I never micro-manage and he always hits for over 60 and sometimes 80 or 90. His defense will end up being slightly over 100 with Shield Wall, and higher with the champion aura. Remember, with strength that will help your team kill enemies alot quicker.

but the main job of a tank isn't to deal damage it's being able to take damage so no strength pumping

[RavenousBear]

Abyss_666 wrote...

kasanza wrote...

Seriously, I just push dex to 26 for board and sword requirements. The rest I put into strength and once Alistair wears massive armor, can't be flanked and maxes out Shield Wall, he never dies. He's the only companion I never micro-manage and he always hits for over 60 and sometimes 80 or 90. His defense will end up being slightly over 100 with Shield Wall, and higher with the champion aura. Remember, with strength that will help your team kill enemies alot quicker.

but the main job of a tank isn't to deal damage it's being able to take damage so no strength pumping

Depending on your other characters your tank has to deal some damage because a character doing more damage than the tank creates more aggro.

[mosspit]

Abyss_666 wrote...

kasanza wrote...

Seriously, I just push dex to 26 for board and sword requirements. The rest I put into strength and once Alistair wears massive armor, can't be flanked and maxes out Shield Wall, he never dies. He's the only companion I never micro-manage and he always hits for over 60 and sometimes 80 or 90. His defense will end up being slightly over 100 with Shield Wall, and higher with the champion aura. Remember, with strength that will help your team kill enemies alot quicker.

but the main job of a tank isn't to deal damage it's being able to take damage so no strength pumping

@ kasanza,I agree with abyss.  What mode are you on? For me on nm, alistair had 53 bare dex and only had about 110 def. That makes 26 dex hitting 100+ def unbuffed a little exaggerated. With regular mobs, everyone can go all-out dmg mode since mobs die fast and deals little. On bosses where they hit in excess of 60 to a buffed tank + battles are drawn, dex/def is helpful in decreasing incoming dmg for the tank. If you wanted dmg, i think a dw will be a better choice but its not my call.

Caak7i wrote...

Depending on your other characters your tank has to deal some damage because a character doing more damage than the tank creates more aggro.

Taunt + threaten makes it so a tank does not have to high damaging. Taunt ensures regular mobs die before they gather enough threat to switch target to your dpser. For elites/bosses, a tank with threaten targeting them is sufficient. Let out a second taunt if they switch targets.

[RavenousBear]

[quote]mosspit wrote...

[quote]Abyss_666 wrote...

[quote]kasanza wrote...

Seriously, I just push dex to 26 for board and sword requirements. The rest I put into strength and once Alistair wears massive armor, can't be flanked and maxes out Shield Wall, he never dies. He's the only companion I never micro-manage and he always hits for over 60 and sometimes 80 or 90. His defense will end up being slightly over 100 with Shield Wall, and higher with the champion aura. Remember, with strength that will help your team kill enemies alot quicker.[/quote]
but the main job of a tank isn't to deal damage it's being able to take damage so no strength pumping[/quote]

@ kasanza,I agree with abyss.  What mode are you on? For me on nm, alistair had 53 bare dex and only had about 110 def. That makes 26 dex hitting 100+ def unbuffed a little exaggerated. With regular mobs, everyone can go all-out dmg mode since mobs die fast and deals little. On bosses where they hit in excess of 60 to a buffed tank + battles are drawn, dex/def is helpful in decreasing incoming dmg for the tank. If you wanted dmg, i think a dw will be a better choice but its not my call.
[/quote]


[/quote]Shield Wall only adds 5 defense I think when the Shield Tree is completely filled, perhaps Kasanza meant to say shield defense which adds 15 defense I think, although with only 26 dexterity I do not know how you get up to 100 defense even with items like Thane Helmet and Buckle of the winds which add 3 defense a piece.

[quote]Caak7i wrote...

Depending on your other characters your tank has to deal some damage because a character doing more damage than the tank creates more aggro.
[/quote]

[quote]mosspit wrote...
Taunt + threaten makes it so a tank does not have to high damaging. Taunt ensures regular mobs die before they gather enough threat to switch target to your dpser. For elites/bosses, a tank with threaten targeting them is sufficient. Let out a second taunt if they switch targets.
[/quote]

[/quote]I thought Threaten was bugged or something where it has little effect in-game. I use taunt on Alistair and sometimes the enemy will break free sometimes if you and Alistair and targetting different enemies.  It is not a huge problem, but you should not rely taunt 100% of the time.

Modifié par Caak7i, 28 février 2010 - 05:50 .

[mosspit]

Caak7i wrote...

I thought Threaten was bugged or something where it has little effect in-game. I use taunt on Alistair and sometimes the enemy will break free sometimes if you and Alistair and targetting different enemies.  It is not a huge problem, but you should not rely taunt 100% of the time.

To my knowledge, threaten does work but is not as effective as taunt. If you are talking about different targets between tank and the dpser, high dmg on the tank will also not work to hold threat in this case. I was also basing this on ingame experience.

Modifié par mosspit, 28 février 2010 - 08:41 .

[Masticetobbacco]

don't even put a single point into con, all out dex it



toughness will suffice for a larger healht pool

[Ryngard]

Abyss_666 wrote...
but the main job of a tank isn't to deal damage it's being able to take damage so no strength pumping

Except that you need 42 STR to wear the massive dragonbone tank armors.

Then balancing DEX/CON is what I do. That way they dodge and have high HP. It works fine for me...

[Abyss_666]

Ryngard wrote...

Abyss_666 wrote...
but the main job of a tank isn't to deal damage it's being able to take damage so no strength pumping

Except that you need 42 STR to wear the massive dragonbone tank armors.

Then balancing DEX/CON is what I do. That way they dodge and have high HP. It works fine for me...

35 strength is enough you can get the rest with items

[Foune]

kasanza wrote...

Seriously, I just push dex to 26 for board and sword requirements. The rest I put into strength and once Alistair wears massive armor, can't be flanked and maxes out Shield Wall, he never dies. He's the only companion I never micro-manage and he always hits for over 60 and sometimes 80 or 90. His defense will end up being slightly over 100 with Shield Wall, and higher with the champion aura. Remember, with strength that will help your team kill enemies alot quicker.

Which difficulty mode do you play? I've played aswell with a pure-strength tank, tho that was on easy-normal, anything can be done with that made decently.

[DJ0000]

I guess a high con tank could be useful for a blood mage. Harsh but effective.

[Foune]

Gear with spell resistance is useful for a blood mage, not con.

[mosspit]

Vladiostroke wrote...

Gear with spell resistance is useful for a blood mage, not con.

But why??? Manaclash will send all non-boss mage into oblivion.

[DJ0000]

Vladiostroke wrote...

Gear with spell resistance is useful for a blood mage, not con.

What I meant was that, with a high con tank in your party, a blood mage could use them as a battery.

[dkjestrup]

Con tanks are rubbish. Don't let high HP fool you. Getting around 40-50 dex and rest strength is viable though, with Mage support (Glyph of Warding, Heroic Defense, Rally (perhaps even stacked)) you will be practically unhittable anyways.

[Oak Tree Leaf]

Maybe I missed it through my skim, while having a dex tank would make it great for avoidance...



Don't you still need con for special occasions? like when a dragon picks you up and munches on your no no parts?



Not entirely sure what comes into play there, I imagine high armor and health, no? Not sure dexterity does much there.



I think when ogres pick you up and smacks you around, I don't think dexterity helps you there either?

[UberuceIAm]

Once a tank has enough defensive ability to survive being the aggro magnet, things which increase offensive ability become worthwhile.



Con doesn't increase your offensive abilities, but Dex does, so Dex wins.



It could be argued that Con increases a party's offensive ability because a HP-sink can walk into the Inferno-type persisting AOE spells and dance with the enemy inside it. However, that situation crops up less often than normal melee.

[Anonymouswizard]

I'd say con into the early 20's, then dex all the way. I suggest one point in strength and two in dex after level 12 or earlier.