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[Helios969]

One of the most intriguing companions in the game, not enough discussion (by my estimation) is made regarding Sten. (Probably because he is not a love interest.)
 
He is introduced to us as a murderer, having slaughtered an entire family of innocents. An act that is more barbaric than anything we know about Zevran or Leliana. He makes no attempt to deny this, nor does he make up excusses. I do not specifically recall if he says so, but his tone seems remorseful.
 
He comes to Fereldan to learn about the Blight, so he claims. Yet there can be little doubt he and his Qunari companions are also gathering intelligence on Fereldan for a future invasion – a conflict that will result in the loss of thousands if not tens of thousands of lives.
 
So much effort is made toward justifying the other companion’s behavior that many are ignoring someone that represents a threat with the potential to be every bit of destructive to Fereldan as the Blight. His people are obviously ethnocentric, which may be their primary motivation for conquering other peoples.  Perhaps even enslaving them.
 
Sten is a Six, in terms of Enneagram of Personality. Sixes: Loyalist, Devil's Advocate, Defender [Fear]. Sixes long for stability above all else. They exhibit unwavering loyalty and responsibility, but are prone to extreme anxiety and passive-aggressive behavior. Their greatest fear is to lack support and guidance. There are two types of sixes, phobic and counter phobic. Phobic sixes will have a tendency to run from or hide from what they fear, while a counter phobic six is more likely to attack or confront said fear.
 
Yet despite all I know about him, most of which is bad, I find him an interesting and likeable character.  (Some of the best and funniest lines in the game come from Sten.)  I’m intrigued, perhaps because he is the least vocal companion – an enigma that makes me want to know more.  He is perhaps the easiest to lead by simply being direct and decisive.

[Sabriana]

You are right. Sten is very hard to justify in an RPing way. Why would the Warden take him with her? Leliana makes a good case, even Zevran does, but Sten doesn't say much. My PC knows he admits his crime freely. There seems to be some remorse, but she can't figure out what exactly he feels remorse for. The only positive thing he has going for him is that he waited until the 'cops' came and got him, he made no attempt at cover-up or trying to flee.

The other positive is that all three companions (Morrigan, Alistair, Leliana) plead for him for different reasons, but none elaborate.

Granted, my PC needs all the help she can get, but having a mass-murderer behind her is not very, shall we say, comfortable. Especially because he won't give a reason for the slaughter.

I guess my only reason for having my PC accept him is the aforementioned. His willingness to pay for his crimes, the three companions pleading for him, and his acceptance of death. He doesn't even want her to get him food or water, he just wants it to end.

It was still an odd feeling to give him arms and armor, and trotting behind the PC. I must admit that I left him at camp for a while the first play-through, just because of that. Now I'm of course metagaming, and I accept the reasons he should be recruited. I can't simply un-learn what I found out about him through the first time around.

[Helios969]

Plus, logically, if our interest is doing right by Fereldan, it would have been better to let him starve or get munched on by the Darkspawn.

[KendallX23]

Well if two wardens a dog,an apostate and a "sister" can't keep him i ncheck until u find out more about him..then they all need a better job.I know Qunari are big strong warriors but please...he is not invincible..plus the fact that he is so big dosen't seem likely that he will attack in your sleep.That's my first impression in my first walkthrough.As an RP..i took him for more melle power and redemption...

[CalJones]

There's quite a long thread on why anyone would want to release Sten from the cage over on the Awakenings forum (obviously it's in the wrong place there, but still).



I like Sten a lot as well. He's made me laugh several times (especially his reaction if you take him to Andraste's ashes - golden) and he's one of the easiest to get high approval with. The thing with Sten is that he has a strong sense of honour. You know he won't stab you while you sleep, and he won't betray you, which you can't say of Zevran or even Leliana (not until you get to know them, anyway. And even them I'm not sure I can ever really trust Leliana given that she's an Orlesian spy).



Whether you think Sten should die for murdering the farmers is another matter. He feels regret, but that won't bring them back, so to speak. However, I personally am a big fan of redemption and believe it's the right thing to do to bring him along. It's also the Warden way - many of the Wardens (including several of the origins characters) are criminals who would otherwise die, or suffer some other unwholesome fate. I don't see recruiting Sten any different to Duncan recruiting Daveth or the CE, DC, DN or Mage origin characters.

[Helios969]

KendallX23 wrote...

Well if two wardens a dog,an apostate and a "sister" can't keep him i ncheck until u find out more about him..then they all need a better job.I know Qunari are big strong warriors but please...he is not invincible..plus the fact that he is so big dosen't seem likely that he will attack in your sleep.That's my first impression in my first walkthrough.As an RP..i took him for more melle power and redemption...

I don't worry about him betraying me.  I trust him in that regard right up there with Alistair.  I'm thinking more along the lines of after he returns to his people and reports Fereldan's strengths and weaknesses.

[AndreaDraco]

O.O Another justifying thread?



I think that this one will be more civil and toned-down in comparison with the other twos!

[Helios969]

AndreaDraco wrote...

O.O Another justifying thread?

I think that this one will be more civil and toned-down in comparison with the other twos!

I hope so.  That is my sincere desire.  Just a thread where we can speculate on the pros and cons of Sten, and discuss hypothetical consequences of bringing him into our party.

[KendallX23]

Helios969 wrote...

KendallX23 wrote...

Well if two wardens a dog,an apostate and a "sister" can't keep him i ncheck until u find out more about him..then they all need a better job.I know Qunari are big strong warriors but please...he is not invincible..plus the fact that he is so big dosen't seem likely that he will attack in your sleep.That's my first impression in my first walkthrough.As an RP..i took him for more melle power and redemption...

I don't worry about him betraying me.  I trust him in that regard right up there with Alistair.  I'm thinking more along the lines of after he returns to his people and reports Fereldan's strengths and weaknesses.

            That won't be a problem..seeing how when Sten is there..Ferelden has no strengths...then again he seems more interested in the darkspawn..even in the beginning..when i got him out of the cage i only though of more arm power..a dangerous one

[Sabriana]

I did worry about him turning on my PC. Logically speaking, and from a RPing standpoint, the PC took a great risk, even with her other allies keeping an eye out. According to the templars my PC spoke to, it was a horrific blood-bath.

Later on the PC will learn far more, however, he will challenge her leadership in Haven. If her standing with him is high, there will be a strong discussion, if not, he'll challenge her for a duel. He has reasons, he simply thinks the PC is wasting time and effort, but he will turn on her. The outcome differs depending on the respect he has for the PC.

[KendallX23]

erm..are u sure..he didn't turn on me..nor did he challenge me..i was at 100 with him at that time..and friendly

[Helios969]

Sabriana wrote...

I did worry about him turning on my PC. Logically speaking, and from a RPing standpoint, the PC took a great risk, even with her other allies keeping an eye out. According to the templars my PC spoke to, it was a horrific blood-bath.
Later on the PC will learn far more, however, he will challenge her leadership in Haven. If her standing with him is high, there will be a strong discussion, if not, he'll challenge her for a duel. He has reasons, he simply thinks the PC is wasting time and effort, but he will turn on her. The outcome differs depending on the respect he has for the PC.

Interesting.  I never had him challenge me to a fight.  I've got to try that.  Usually, I'm just blunt, rudely so, leave no dispute who's in charge, and he gets back in line.  Sten approves +5.

[Aynslie]

He stayed and waited for the authorities to arrest him and didn't fight back. Immediately on my first character when I heard this I thought he had went berserker rage on the family, to me it did sound right a way that he had snapped. When he realized what had happened he stayed and accepted any punishment the village had for him. He is also seeking atonement and he sees dying as atonement for his crime. Instead, my character saw that since he wants to die anyway he could be useful fighting the darkspawn instead of sitting in the cage. This way he could get redemption by saving a foreign land from a great evil. He does seem to regret what he did, in a Qunari sense of the word. Later when he tells you why he killed the family it is still very weird because the Qunari are very alien to us. And sure enough he had freaked out. All in all I found the slaughter to be a rare and isolated event for Sten and wasn't worried that he wouldn't behave, even from the beginning.

[Sabriana]

Take him to Haven when you go for the very first time. The conversation choice for the PC after his bit about the archdemon is very funny. I don't want to spoil it for you, but it had me laughing out loud.

I don't know about the approval limit. I usually do Redcliffe -> Tower -> Haven, so his approval was definitely not in the higher regions, but enough to have him back down when told to.

There are several outcomes, depending on the PC/Sten relationship.

As for his role in Ferelden, yes, I agree, hearing "I hope I won't see you on the battlefield" was a "saywhot?" moment for me as well.

[ejoslin]

With any of your party members, the most important thing is will they help you defeat the blight. In many cases, the PC is a murderer as well (not the human noble or the mage, but the other origins can play out that way) and an extremely skilled fighter who is recruited because they ARE skilled fighters and because, well, they have nothing else to lose.



I try to view recruiting through that filter. Sten pretty obviously wants redemption, whether through being eaten by the darkspawn, or, well, fighting the darkspawn. Sten does make my warden a bit nervous, but not because she is worried that he may kill her in her sleep. Had Sten not wanted to be in that cage, he would not have been.



Hmmm, I am probably rambling here, but these are just a couple of random thoughts about Sten.

[Ponce de Leon]

Helios969 wrote...
He is introduced to us as a murderer, having slaughtered an entire family of innocents. An act that is more barbaric than anything we know about Zevran or Leliana. He makes no attempt to deny this, nor does he make up excusses. I do not specifically recall if he says so, but his tone seems remorseful.

He tells you that what he did is without excuses. He knows what he did, and he admits it. He could have easilly killed the people coming to take him, but he did not. He indeed found some kind of regret.

He comes to Fereldan to learn about the Blight, so he claims. Yet there can be little doubt he and his Qunari companions are also gathering intelligence on Fereldan for a future invasion – a conflict that will result in the loss of thousands if not tens of thousands of lives.
 

I don't think he's gathering information. That would probably be a waste of time. And he doesn't lie either, has no intention to do so. He also admits that sooner or later the Qunari would invade Ferelden. He was following his order. Like a disciplined soldier would do.

So much effort is made toward justifying the other companion’s behavior that many are ignoring someone that represents a threat with the potential to be every bit of destructive to Fereldan as the Blight. His people are obviously ethnocentric, which may be their primary motivation for conquering other peoples.  Perhaps even enslaving them.

I don't think they'd enslave people. He's the first one to tell that everyone has it's place in life, and whether or not they like it, they will still be that. To put it in his way : If a farmer was enslaved, he would still be a farmer, but turned into a slave. 
I guess the qunari would just conquer the lands because they feel their Qun is the ideal way to follow one life. Bloodshed would be a waste of resources, and if you make people loyal to you (out of fear, or if you are simply right), you will just get stronger.

Yet despite all I know about him, most of which is bad, I find him an interesting and likeable character.  (Some of the best and funniest lines in the game come from Sten.)  I’m intrigued, perhaps because he is the least vocal companion – an enigma that makes me want to know more.  He is perhaps the easiest to lead by simply being direct and decisive.

He did bad, yes. He admits it too. But what would you do if you lost the one thing that gives you meaning in life? He failed as a soldier, he failed his leader, he failed what was given to him, a hand to strike a blow to the enemies, a companion to always have at your side, a soul.
My guess is that Sten, is much more deep than most companions out there. That's what I like of him. And he's also something never seen in fantasy.

[errant_knight]

Helios969 wrote...

Plus, logically, if our interest is doing right by Fereldan, it would have been better to let him starve or get munched on by the Darkspawn.

Not really. At that point in the game, there's only two wardens, (plus a dubious swamp witch), and we've just found out that there's a price on our heads. We need fighters rather badly. We may or may not have encountered Leiliana, but her usefulness is pretty debatable from what we know at the time.

The Qunari are legendary fighters. There's no doubt that Sten would be useful, and while his actions are shocking, there seems to be no doubt that he posesses a certain honesty and code of honor that makes it believable that he would serve the cause to the best of his abilities, and thus serve Fereldan.

Adding him to the party at that time is completely reasonable. Rather than dying in the cage, he's willing to die for your cause, and is seeking atonement.

Moving to what we know later in the game, Sten feels that his honor is irrevocably besmirched by his action, while neither Leiliana or Zevran feel that spying or assasination touch on honor at all.

He also says that he's there to find out about the blight, not as an advance force for an invasion. He believes that a war is inevitable, but that's not his purpose. I suspect that he thinks a war is inevitable with each and every country on Thedas. It's what the Qunari do. As to lettiing him go back, having him return and tell the Arishok that a small, seemingly weak country is no such thing is a plus, not a minus. Instead of Fereldan looking like easy pickings, it becomes a force to be reckoned with and respected.

If Sten rises in rank, which I think he will, a highly placed person who has favorable views of Fereldan, and the wardens, could also be a good and valuable thing. And he owes us a favor.

Modifié par errant_knight, 28 février 2010 - 05:50 .

[Sabriana]

It does depend on the player and the current PC of that player how to view Sten. My mage was not very happy about his behavior in the tower. The whole 'cutting out tongues, putting them on leashes' and his remark that the tower is far grander than anything the Qun put their mages in did not sit well with her.

She has never before seen a Qunari, how could she, she was a prisoner of the Chantry, and was in the tower from childhood on. So any explanations about 'this is how the Qun are' have no bearing to her. She doesn't know anything about them.

As the game progresses, he does start to respect my PC, and she gets a deeper insight into him. His 'crumbly sweet things' conversation was endearing. But he does have the habit of viewing everything through narrow lenses. Because that's simply what Qunari do. My mage does not know that, not in the beginning.

[Helios969]

errant_knight wrote...

[If Sten rises in rank, which I think he will, a highly placed person who has favorable views of Fereldan, and the wardens, could also be a good and valuable thing. And he owes us a favor.

I considered this.  Yet when I ask if he thought the Qunari would invade Fereldan? His response was "in time."  Then something like "no use dwelling on what may or may not happen in the future."

Sten is awesome though.  One of my favorite banters is when Leli catches him looking at flowers and proceeds to tease him relentlessly with "big softy."  There's obviously much more going on beneath the surface than we get to see.

I hope there is an expansion pack that allows us to explore Par Vollen, ideally with Sten as a companion.

[Highdragonslayer]

The Qunari people believe that they are the harvenger's of your perfection, that's why they're so aggresive.

[errant_knight]

Helios969 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

[If Sten rises in rank, which I think he will, a highly placed person who has favorable views of Fereldan, and the wardens, could also be a good and valuable thing. And he owes us a favor.

I considered this.  Yet when I ask if he thought the Qunari would invade Fereldan? His response was "in time."  Then something like "no use dwelling on what may or may not happen in the future."

Sten is awesome though.  One of my favorite banters is when Leli catches him looking at flowers and proceeds to tease him relentlessly with "big softy."  There's obviously much more going on beneath the surface than we get to see.

I hope there is an expansion pack that allows us to explore Par Vollen, ideally with Sten as a companion.

Yes, I think he believes that the very nature of the Qunari makes war inevitable, and that things are as they are, unchanging. He sees that is not always the case, though, as he travels with the warden. Knowing Sten, I think he'll have to think about that for a good long time before he gets a handle on it, and it may not be something he feels able to articulate to his Arishok, but I think it may make a difference in the long run.

[Greifvogel]

Maviarab wrote...

Why do any of the characters need to be justified at all?

They needn't. But as they are flawed yet potentially appreciable, they're, as germans often say, Gesprächstoff.

[Helios969]

Greifvogel wrote...

Maviarab wrote...

Why do any of the characters need to be justified at all?

They needn't. But as they are flawed yet potentially appreciable, they're, as germans often say, Gesprächstoff.

Is that how it translates?