79 réponses à ce sujet

[TJSolo]

Inarai wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

"ME1) A bunch of guns that do exactly the same thing as other guns to varying degrees of efficacy.
ME2) A handful of guns that fill a similar role in very different ways, plus upgrades to those guns to get the same variance in effficacy seen in the last game without some insanely bloated inventory."

Without your belittling and ingoring what made the first system function; depth in ME1s weapon system is greater.
Of course if you have to include with all your ME1 statements trite (dis)qualifiers then ME1 will forever be lacking, which in terms of options it is not.

The upgrade system in ME2 functions to scale the weapons, like how ME1 did with the damage value.
The way ME2 weapons function differently can just be a combination of weapon mods from ME1 that effect RoF and burst damage. The weapon mod system allowed for a larger mix.
As for visual variety in ME1 there were 3 distinct shapes to each weapon with 4-5skins per. While in ME handguns and SMGs only have 2 appearances, Snipes 3 appearances(4 with DLC), shotguns have 3 appearances, and ARs have 5 appearances.
Even if you want to bar skins from consideration that only leaves ARs having more variety in ME2.
There isn't a heavy class in ME1 to compare.

And the idea of the last few posters is that more handguns and SMGs are needed. If you want to agree more shotguns are needed, which count is already at 3, it would reason(?) that you would agree handguns and SMGs at a count of 2 need more as well.

All I'm saying is that anything added should be substantive - actually adding something, not being more for the sake of more.  And no, you really couldn't get these differences of mods - or was there a burst fire mod I didn't know about?  They altered the base functioning of weapons, more than mods would do.

You could add weapon mods to increase damage and increase overheating, resulting in burst fire but with a cooldown, really not recommended. Equipping explosive rounds in snipers, shotguns, and ARs led to some interesting and short fights.
Or you could equip weapon mods to slow your RoF and have 1-3 bursts on a weapon like an AR.
The weapon mods in ME1 really offered a mix of things you could do, moreso than the incremental 10% damage upgrades of the sequel.

The request isn't to add a 3rd pistol identical to the Carnifax or SMG just like  the Tempest.
Using ME2s weapon rules give the players more weapons which following those rules would mean a distinct performance apart from the others.

[Riot Inducer]

Inarai wrote...
Hey, charge shots are an ancient classic.  The Plasma Pistol would be a shameless ripoff if charge shots weren't such a staple of sci-fi.

I'd enjoy such a weapon.

Also, that shotgun...  Would that be like Carnage from ME1, or what?

The charged shotgun blast would be a bit like the Eviscerator's shot, this way it could be used as both a up close weapon and a relatively ranged weapon should you need it too, also the boosted damage would mean that you could charge it up to "one shot" more powerful foes up close. It's a bit difficult to describe but essentially it would be kinda like having the scimitar except you can use up half the clip for an eviscerator-like range/damage shot. 

Although the idea of bringing back the carnage ability is very nice too, might even be better than what I was thinking. 

[nteger]

I'd like to see modular weapons kind of like the N7 armor. Just make sure the mods actually give meaningful bonuses/penalties. Instead of having the choice between a slow-firing, high damage pistol and a quick firing, low damage pistol, I'd like to be able to pick and choose the aspects of the weapon.

[Murmillos]

where is my medium medium hand gun!

[Inarai]

TJSolo wrote...

The request isn't to add a 3rd pistol identical to the Carnifax or SMG just like  the Tempest.
Using ME2s weapon rules give the players more weapons which following those rules would mean a distinct performance apart from the others.

An example would help you greatly.

[TornadoADV]

Inarai wrote...

Andy_Haugh wrote...

Inarai wrote...

The other issue in ME1 is that all the guns were really the same with different numbers.  Not great.  Better now.  Not perfect.  Perfection unattainable.  Improvement notable all the same.

The weapons also had different appearances in addition to the different numbers, therefore they are different (each class of weapon had roughly 10 unique model/skin combinations). Saying they are "the same but different" doesn't make any sense here.

Inarai wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

The first game the guns were different because of the numbers, that was stated. Weapons weren't handled that way in ME2.

ME2s selection in some areas is a bit too frugal.

That "difference" is effectively not a difference, it has no depth.  Here, there's depth.  I'd like to see them expand the choices over time, but they don't need anything NEAR to how many ME1 had.  7 or 8 of a given type would almost definitely be overdoing it.

Well, you can have that opinion if you want, but it just isn't true. Removing a vast number of choices actually adds depth? It sounds like you must be an L2, I remember Dr. Chakwas saying that "insanity" was one of the side effects of using this implant...

Seriously, look at this comparison between pistols in ME1/ME2, and tell me what gives more "depth":

ME1) 2 unique weapon models, 4 to 5 skins for each, and 5 to 10 sets of stats for each.
ME2) 2 unique weapon models, 1 skin for each, and 1 set of stats for each.

Also, ME1 had up to 3 mod slots per weapon. With that said, I will agree with you that anything beyond 7 or 8 different guns is unnecessary, but it is nice nevertheless.

There are opinions, and then there are facts. ME1 has more "depth" in it's weapons selection, and that is a fact. Sorry, but sometimes the truth hurts

Actually having substantive difference, like, say, difference in the way they function, adds depth.  Visual difference isn't substantive difference.  It improves things when substantive difference exists - without that, not really relevant.  So:

ME1) A bunch of guns that do exactly the same thing as other guns to varying degrees of efficacy.
ME2) A handful of guns that fill a similar role in very different ways, plus upgrades to those guns to get the same variance in effficacy seen in the last game without some insanely bloated inventory.

Conclusion: More depth.

More guns, doing different things would be good, though.  Suggestions?  Perhaps a large clip shotgun with decent rate of fire:  12 shots, perhaps.  Less damage a shot perhaps, but handy none the less if it still staggers well enough.

LOL what? ME1 had massively more depth in guns then ME2 by dint of the mods each weapon could be out-fitted with.

Modifié par TornadoADV, 01 mars 2010 - 10:25 .

[Poison_Berrie]

TornadoADV wrote...
LOL what? ME1 had massively more depth in guns then ME2 by dint of the mods each weapon could be out-fitted with.

Too be honest weapons were primarily choosen on DPS followed by heat when the DPS weren't far apart. And there was always one that was superior to others in the same class, cumulating in the SPECTRE gear. Most mods were nothing more than weapon bonuses with the exception of the damage "Rail" mods, which had drawbacks.
They added a bit more depth, but nothing massive.

Still I would like to see them implemented in a way that's more in style with the current system (i.e. not being able to overpower or overcome a weapons drawbacks).

[M 3 i m 0 n]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

TornadoADV wrote...
LOL what? ME1 had massively more depth in guns then ME2 by dint of the mods each weapon could be out-fitted with.

Too be honest weapons were primarily choosen on DPS followed by heat when the DPS weren't far apart. And there was always one that was superior to others in the same class, cumulating in the SPECTRE gear. Most mods were nothing more than weapon bonuses with the exception of the damage "Rail" mods, which had drawbacks.
They added a bit more depth, but nothing massive.

Still I would like to see them implemented in a way that's more in style with the current system (i.e. not being able to overpower or overcome a weapons drawbacks).

Ok Berrie, but we can't say that the ME1 system doesn't work and the new 1... ehm... work. And so many people likes the new system just because it's more "simple"...   Cmo'n guys! The weapons stats!!! I'm the only 1 that miss the weapons stats? I'm the only 1 that miss a little bit realism? ...  The first time i've see the weapons in ME1 and the overheating system i felt like: "Wow! This can be really possible? Maybe... YES!". But now... The clips... umm...    I don't wan't to say a word.

Modifié par M 3 i m 0 n, 01 mars 2010 - 06:52 .

[BlightWalker]

M 3 i m 0 n wrote...

Poison_Berrie wrote...

TornadoADV wrote...
LOL what? ME1 had massively more depth in guns then ME2 by dint of the mods each weapon could be out-fitted with.

Too be honest weapons were primarily choosen on DPS followed by heat when the DPS weren't far apart. And there was always one that was superior to others in the same class, cumulating in the SPECTRE gear. Most mods were nothing more than weapon bonuses with the exception of the damage "Rail" mods, which had drawbacks.
They added a bit more depth, but nothing massive.

Still I would like to see them implemented in a way that's more in style with the current system (i.e. not being able to overpower or overcome a weapons drawbacks).

Ok Berrie, but we can't say that the ME1 system doesn't work and the new 1... ehm... work. And so many people likes the new system just because it's more "simple"...   Cmo'n guys! The weapons stats!!! I'm the only 1 that miss the weapons stats? I'm the only 1 that miss a little bit realism? ...  The first time i've see the weapons in ME1 and the overheating system i felt like: "Wow! This can be really possible? Maybe... YES!". But now... The clips... umm...    I don't wan't to say a word.

The stats are still there, check the game files if you want.

[M 3 i m 0 n]

BlightWalker wrote...

M 3 i m 0 n wrote...

Poison_Berrie wrote...

TornadoADV wrote...
LOL what? ME1 had massively more depth in guns then ME2 by dint of the mods each weapon could be out-fitted with.

Too be honest weapons were primarily choosen on DPS followed by heat when the DPS weren't far apart. And there was always one that was superior to others in the same class, cumulating in the SPECTRE gear. Most mods were nothing more than weapon bonuses with the exception of the damage "Rail" mods, which had drawbacks.
They added a bit more depth, but nothing massive.

Still I would like to see them implemented in a way that's more in style with the current system (i.e. not being able to overpower or overcome a weapons drawbacks).

Ok Berrie, but we can't say that the ME1 system doesn't work and the new 1... ehm... work. And so many people likes the new system just because it's more "simple"...   Cmo'n guys! The weapons stats!!! I'm the only 1 that miss the weapons stats? I'm the only 1 that miss a little bit realism? ...  The first time i've see the weapons in ME1 and the overheating system i felt like: "Wow! This can be really possible? Maybe... YES!". But now... The clips... umm...    I don't wan't to say a word.

The stats are still there, check the game files if you want.

Lol, congratulation! .... i hope u're kidding me. But maybe not. Maybe u miss the problem.

[TJSolo]

BlightWalker wrote...

M 3 i m 0 n wrote...

Poison_Berrie wrote...

TornadoADV wrote...
LOL what? ME1 had massively more depth in guns then ME2 by dint of the mods each weapon could be out-fitted with.

Too be honest weapons were primarily choosen on DPS followed by heat when the DPS weren't far apart. And there was always one that was superior to others in the same class, cumulating in the SPECTRE gear. Most mods were nothing more than weapon bonuses with the exception of the damage "Rail" mods, which had drawbacks.
They added a bit more depth, but nothing massive.

Still I would like to see them implemented in a way that's more in style with the current system (i.e. not being able to overpower or overcome a weapons drawbacks).

Ok Berrie, but we can't say that the ME1 system doesn't work and the new 1... ehm... work. And so many people likes the new system just because it's more "simple"...   Cmo'n guys! The weapons stats!!! I'm the only 1 that miss the weapons stats? I'm the only 1 that miss a little bit realism? ...  The first time i've see the weapons in ME1 and the overheating system i felt like: "Wow! This can be really possible? Maybe... YES!". But now... The clips... umm...    I don't wan't to say a word.

The stats are still there, check the game files if you want.

The PC has all files inadvertently accessible, of course there are numbers behind the scenes.In implementation though the stats on the guns are not on display or a player concern.

[M 3 i m 0 n]

TJSolo wrote...

BlightWalker wrote...

M 3 i m 0 n wrote...

Poison_Berrie wrote...

TornadoADV wrote...
LOL what? ME1 had massively more depth in guns then ME2 by dint of the mods each weapon could be out-fitted with.

Too be honest weapons were primarily choosen on DPS followed by heat when the DPS weren't far apart. And there was always one that was superior to others in the same class, cumulating in the SPECTRE gear. Most mods were nothing more than weapon bonuses with the exception of the damage "Rail" mods, which had drawbacks.
They added a bit more depth, but nothing massive.

Still I would like to see them implemented in a way that's more in style with the current system (i.e. not being able to overpower or overcome a weapons drawbacks).

Ok Berrie, but we can't say that the ME1 system doesn't work and the new 1... ehm... work. And so many people likes the new system just because it's more "simple"...   Cmo'n guys! The weapons stats!!! I'm the only 1 that miss the weapons stats? I'm the only 1 that miss a little bit realism? ...  The first time i've see the weapons in ME1 and the overheating system i felt like: "Wow! This can be really possible? Maybe... YES!". But now... The clips... umm...    I don't wan't to say a word.

The stats are still there, check the game files if you want.

The PC has all files inadvertently accessible, of course there are numbers behind the scenes.In implementation though the stats on the guns are not on display or a player concern.

Bro, here people miss the real problem (imho). ME2 is a perfect game 4 console.

[BlightWalker]

Is it really that much of a problem to you not seeing numbers on a screen?

[M 3 i m 0 n]

BlightWalker wrote...

Is it really that much of a problem to you not seeing numbers on a screen?

Eheh, wan't u really understand?

[lukandroll]

I think we are getting nowhere...

The point is, even if there is a right amount styles on weapons, it fall short compared to other games...

I mean go play RE4 or RE5, those games offer more customization in the guns that ME2 in its entire career...

Its rather simply, we need more unique guns, or we need better mods/customization for the guns that are already released

[TJSolo]

BlightWalker wrote...

Is it really that much of a problem to you not seeing numbers on a screen?

On my first playthrough with an Infiltrator. I was running around with a Mantis, one shotting things. I find a Viper which auto equips to me and the description states it is an upgrade to the Mantis. I look at the ammo and magazine, then think cool more.
When I actually use it it takes the three rounds it holds to do half the damage the Mantis did.

I thought something was wrong. It wasn't until someone posted the PC versions weapon file that it became obvious that for the extra ammo and magazine the Viper gave up damage per shot.

So yes not having numbers or displayable stats can lead to confusion when something states it is an upgrade but it is only functionally different, not a direct improvement.

Modifié par TJSolo, 01 mars 2010 - 07:52 .

[Poison_Berrie]

BlightWalker wrote...

Is it really that much of a problem to you not seeing numbers on a screen?

It could help you in choosing weapons. As it stands you only really get a feel for what the weapon is capable of after you tried it. Stats could help you compare the weapons available, it would certainly be appreciated to get a some indication of the differences.
It is perhaps less necessary in ME 2 than it was in ME 1, but I do kind of miss it.

EDIT: I don't think people like it because it's simpler. They like it because they feel the system is less cluttered with junk and/or though few the weapons available are unique in the way the work and handle and which makes them more unique.

Modifié par Poison_Berrie, 01 mars 2010 - 07:52 .

[addiction21]

nteger wrote...

I'd like to see modular weapons kind of like the N7 armor.

Something like this. My hope is that if they keep this system for ME3 they bring along all the guns and add more. Then on top of it add a mod system with a couple slots for each gun to add something in.  Like something that would add 2 pellets to the shotgun or another that tightens its spread.
Keep the unique feel of the weapons and add some customazation to it.

[M 3 i m 0 n]

lukandroll wrote...

I think we are getting nowhere...
The point is, even if there is a right amount styles on weapons, it fall short compared to other games...
I mean go play RE4 or RE5, those games offer more customization in the guns that ME2 in its entire career...
Its rather simply, we need more unique guns, or we need better mods/customization for the guns that are already released

Bro, lukan, u know that we CAN'T compare the games. Just think that BioWare have removed the granades!!!! LOL!!!
No granades in the future? Umm... But, maybe, in the future, we shouldn't have so may tipes of weapons. Ok. It can be possible. But i think that i can use my brain, my hands too, and customize them. As i want. Or i can go 2 a craftmaster lol!

Modifié par M 3 i m 0 n, 01 mars 2010 - 08:30 .

[M 3 i m 0 n]

addiction21 wrote...

nteger wrote...

I'd like to see modular weapons kind of like the N7 armor.

Something like this. My hope is that if they keep this system for ME3 they bring along all the guns and add more. Then on top of it add a mod system with a couple slots for each gun to add something in.  Like something that would add 2 pellets to the shotgun or another that tightens its spread.
Keep the unique feel of the weapons and add some customazation to it.

WHY WE HAVE 2 WAIT 4 ME3????  Nosense! I want a big expansion (call it "a big DLC" if u prefer) 4 ME2 that improve a new (old, lol!)/better system! And trust me, BioWare CAN do that. The question is: "Want BioWare... ?"

Modifié par M 3 i m 0 n, 01 mars 2010 - 08:38 .

[danielassault]

The weapon system is flawed in a few ways:



1) No stats for weapons

2) DLC weapons are given to you for free. These are powerful weapons that should be bought in stores or found in the game. Otherwise, it makes most weapons in their category worthless.

3) 2 Handguns and 2 SMGs is a joke. They need more variety.

4) There just isn't enough verity with most weapons, which brings me back for the dire need in stats.

[Poison_Berrie]

M3im0n:

Numbers are not acceptable replacement for words.



Also the only reason BioWare would do that is as a test-bed for ME 3. Though internal play-testing is still preferred for that sort of stuff.

BioWare or any other company won't change the gameplay to such an extent in a released game.

[addiction21]

danielassault wrote...

The weapon system is flawed in a few ways:

1) No stats for weapons
2) DLC weapons are given to you for free. These are powerful weapons that should be bought in stores or found in the game. Otherwise, it makes most weapons in their category worthless.
3) 2 Handguns and 2 SMGs is a joke. They need more variety.
4) There just isn't enough verity with most weapons, which brings me back for the dire need in stats.

1. Not really a problem for me.
2. I did not find that to be the case. The only weapon I myself use is the shotgun. The sniper rifle even if you line up a head shot you end up missing 1 or 2 of the shots because of the recoil. It is a beast in garrus's hands.
3. YES!!!
4. To me stats do not add variety but are just a grind. Its more of a gear treadmill in my eyes.

[Poison_Berrie]

addiction21: Stats do not need to be anything more than what makes this gun different from the other.

How it fires (automatic, burst, one shot), how much ammo you have for it and perhaps some way to classify the damage in a basic way (low, medium, high).

[M 3 i m 0 n]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

M3im0n:
Numbers are not acceptable replacement for words.

Also the only reason BioWare would do that is as a test-bed for ME 3. Though internal play-testing is still preferred for that sort of stuff.
BioWare or any other company won't change the gameplay to such an extent in a released game.

Berrie, i don't know what to say, bro. If u're right when u say that this is a test... well, lol, this is unacceptable! But it sounds good, because this can't be a game ( flamesss)! I'm not speaking about a big change: the first thing the BioWare can do is to add more customization. This is really simple. They have done it whit NWN (whit an expansion). So they can do it again. I know that BioWare will never change the gameplay right now... lol but let me hope that all is possible!!!!