92 réponses à ce sujet

[Markinator_123]

What I mean is do you believe that there is someone who SHOULD be able to perform a specific role well and game wise they don't. For instance, a friend mine told me that Mordin should be able to go into the vents (which I think is ridiculous by the way because Mordin's expertise is in biology.). However, game wise sending him into the vents leads to his death. Likewise, people have said that Samara and Zaeed should make good leaders. Personally, i 100% agree with Bioware's assessment of the suicide mission. I just want to know if anyone has a compelling argument for why a character should be able to perform a role despite the fact they can't do it gamewise (at least not well anyway).

PS: This also goes for a particular person who is a good at role game wise who you think shouldn't be.

Modifié par Markinator_123, 28 février 2010 - 09:36 .

[Gill Kaiser]

Not really. I agreed with Bioware's assessments.

[R34P3RR3D33M3R]

I mostly agree with their role distribution.

The only thing I don't completely agree with is Garrus being a suitable leader while Tali isn't. They both led teams in the past. Both their teams ended up dead. I find they should either both be viable leaders, or neither of them.

[Markinator_123]

R34P3RR3D33M3R wrote...

I mostly agree with their role distribution.
The only thing I don't completely agree with is Garrus being a suitable leader while Tali isn't. They both led teams in the past. Both their teams ended up dead. I find they should either both be viable leaders, or neither of them.

Garrus was betrayed. His vigilante team was doing pretty well on Omega until Sidonis's portrayal. Tali's team just got slaughtered period.

[Missouri Tigers]

Markinator_123 wrote...

R34P3RR3D33M3R wrote...

I mostly agree with their role distribution.
The only thing I don't completely agree with is Garrus being a suitable leader while Tali isn't. They both led teams in the past. Both their teams ended up dead. I find they should either both be viable leaders, or neither of them.

Garrus was betrayed. His vigilante team was doing pretty well on Omega until Sidonis's portrayal. Tali's team just got slaughtered period.

To add to that, Tali didn't exactly have control over Prazza and his men.  She was in charge, but as she said, "Prazza and his men rushed ahead, I told them not to."

[R34P3RR3D33M3R]

Markinator_123 wrote...

R34P3RR3D33M3R wrote...

I mostly agree with their role distribution.
The only thing I don't completely agree with is Garrus being a suitable leader while Tali isn't. They both led teams in the past. Both their teams ended up dead. I find they should either both be viable leaders, or neither of them.

Garrus was betrayed. His vigilante team was doing pretty well on Omega until Sidonis's portrayal. Tali's team just got slaughtered period.

Tali's team on Freedom's Progress got slaughtered because one of her team messed up and the others followed him, this is not so much different from Garrus' teammate messing up.
Her second team on Haestrom was extremely outnumbered and going against a Colossus and several Geth dropships. I highly doubt Garrus would've done much better in that situation.

[R34P3RR3D33M3R]

Missouri Tigers wrote...

To add to that, Tali didn't exactly have control over Prazza and his men.  She was in charge, but as she said, "Prazza and his men rushed ahead, I told them not to."

Yes, Prazza was an idiot, that is made perfectly clear in the game.
In the suicide mission, when Shepard says "Tali is in charge." , the others would likely do what he says and follow her command. At least, if you did all the loyalty missions.

[Gill Kaiser]

In both cases, Tali's team was a recon team attempting to extract Veetor/the sun data with as little fighting as possible. Every time they actually got into a fight, they were slaughtered (not their fault on Haestrom, but still).

Garrus' team was specifically attacking badass mercenary operations with spec op strikes and guerilla tactics. Garrus' team was unstoppable until they were betrayed.

I like Tali, but she's a thinker, not a fighter. She has no military training.

Modifié par Gill Kaiser, 28 février 2010 - 09:40 .

[The Angry One]

R34P3RR3D33M3R wrote...

Missouri Tigers wrote...

To add to that, Tali didn't exactly have control over Prazza and his men.  She was in charge, but as she said, "Prazza and his men rushed ahead, I told them not to."

Yes, Prazza was an idiot, that is made perfectly clear in the game.
In the suicide mission, when Shepard says "Tali is in charge." , the others would likely do what he says and follow her command. At least, if you did all the loyalty missions.

Prazza being an idiot is Tali's justification. A true leader would make that ****** fall into line. He clearly didn't respect Tali as a military leader, and Tali doesn't have much experience leading anything other than engineer teams.

[Skilled Seeker]

Tali led teams for recon missions and not hit squads which is what the fire team on the suicide mission is.

[R34P3RR3D33M3R]

Okay, I see the point. I completely agree with BioWare too, then.

[Leftnt Sharpe]

I did find it a bit odd that Zaeed couldn't lead the fire-team successfully but Jacob could.

[Markinator_123]

Leftnt Sharpe wrote...

I did find it a bit odd that Zaeed couldn't lead the fire-team successfully but Jacob could.

Zaeed is way too selfish to make a good leader. Haven't you heard his stories? He is usually a sole survivor.

[Skilled Seeker]

Leftnt Sharpe wrote...

I did find it a bit odd that Zaeed couldn't lead the fire-team successfully but Jacob could.

Missions where Zaeed leads end up with him being the only survivor. Jacob however used to own his own ship and did covert operations for the Alliance much like Shepard.

[shinobi602]

I completely agree with Bioware's assessment.

[shinobi602]

I completely agree with Bioware's assessment.

[Ecael]

An Engineer Shepard should have been capable of making it through the vents, assuming that you can directly take control of another character in the meantime to lead Shepard's main squad. This should have also been the case with an Adept Shepard and the biotic Barrier. The Barrier can also be held by a Vanguard or a Sentinel, but that would cause a team member to die.

Modifié par Ecael, 28 février 2010 - 09:53 .

[The Angry One]

Ecael wrote...

An Engineer Shepard should have been capable of making it through the vents, assuming that you can directly take control of another character in the meantime to lead Shepard's main squad. This should have also been the case with an Adept Shepard and the biotic Barrier.

Yeah but that'd be too much like hard work, man.

[Gill Kaiser]

The only thing that made no sense during the suicide mission is that if you brought Samara or Jack along in your party during the biotic barrier section, they couldn't take over from the barrier-person when they got tired.

[Druss99]

I think they got it pretty much spot on. Only thing I think was off was disloyal squad members getting themselves killed, I thought it should be more likely that they would get someone else killed by not covering them and being out for themselves.

[Ecael]

The Angry One wrote...

Ecael wrote...

An Engineer Shepard should have been capable of making it through the vents, assuming that you can directly take control of another character in the meantime to lead Shepard's main squad. This should have also been the case with an Adept Shepard and the biotic Barrier.

Yeah but that'd be too much like hard work, man.

Creating extra dialogue for Shepard and placing another team member in command does not necessarily require too much effort. Technology to perform the latter has existed since the first game of the trilogy.

[Skilled Seeker]

Shepard is leading the operation. Therefore he has to directly oversee the team's decisions and he can't do that while being stuck in a vent or using his energy to keep a biotic barrior afloat. Also Shepard is the most important person being the commanding officer so getting him to risk his life while there are other crew members that can do the same thing isn't a smart move.

[Schneidend]

The Angry One wrote...
Prazza being an idiot is Tali's justification. A true leader would make that ****** fall into line. He clearly didn't respect Tali as a military leader, and Tali doesn't have much experience leading anything other than engineer teams.

This, Tali's team died from a lack of leadership skills. Garrus' team died because his leadership skills weren't present to save them. Had Garrus been around when the mercs attacked, he and his team would have been invincible.

[Fjordgnu]

I didn't quite understand why Grunt didn't work as the second team leader. They say it's a distraction, so you'd think he'd be ideal. Or maybe that does work, and I just messed up the other choice, I admit I don't remember.



I also didn't picture Tali infiltrating. I mean, in retrospect, I can see why she would work, getting the broken door, as I imagine that is well within the Quarian area of expertise, but for the vents themselves ... Thane was the natural choice for me, and Legion the second time.

[Zulmoka531]

People really don't give Garrus enough credit for what he and his team did on Omega....



Anyways the only surprise I had was that Miranda (even though I never used her for this part) couldn't maintain a "good" biotic bubble. She never really shuts up about herself through the game.