92 réponses à ce sujet

[Wild Still]

I think the role selections were perfect, never thought of it first time around though... I had a bad suicide mission...

[Alamar2078]

I basically agree with Bioware on this one.



I do think that the choice of "who to lead the crew back" should matter more than it does. Honestly I wouldn't trust anyone other than Thane with that job. Who else has a great chance of leading an unarmed crew back safely? He could stealth around ... lead the crew around trouble instead of hitting it head on or possible take out any trouble silently without raising an alarm to get the crew killed.

[Arhka]

I agree with all the roles. I just wish that you played as the characters assigned to those roles akin to KoToR 1/2

[IoCaster]

Garrus made sense to me as a squad leader. Jacob and Miranda weren't particularly obvious though. That's why so many people got that choice wrong. The problem I had was that Bioware never really sold me on the premise that Miranda had any combat leadership ability. She managed the Lazarus Project. Big whoop, so that makes her an effective combat leader? The only talent she displayed to me in the game was an extraordinary aptitude for self promotion. She certainly didn't show me any ability to inspire confidence and/or loyalty among the other squad members.  We simply had to take it on faith that since her passive talent equates to leader that should suffice. Jacob was a more reasonable guess for some players, but I can certainly understand why some folks didn't find him to be particularly inspiring either. 

The tech choice shouldn't have presented much of a dilemma for most people. It's even pointed out by Miranda that the ideal choice should have tech ability which would seemingly exclude Thane or Mordin as good prospects. It was pretty obvious that Tali or Legion were the better choices for that task.

The biotic bubble choice was so damn obvious that anyone that messed it up gets no sympathy from me. Samara and Jack were the best biotics available on the squad. Why anyone would choose a second tier biotic squad member is beyond my comprehension.

The escort choice wasn't really obvious because there was no way to know what kind of opposition they would be encountering along the way. Everyone had to make a blind choice there. Some people sent a lightweight warrior like Tali or Mordin to presumably evacuate them along with the crew. Other folks sent back a stalwart like Grunt or Zaeed so that the crew would have a reasonable level of protection if needed. The indicators weren't presented in a really obvious fashion.

The implications of the 'holding the line' segment weren't particularly obvious either because at that point most people would be inclined to grab their two favorites and go. If those two were the surviving heavyweights of your squad there was no obvious indication that the rest of them would be in more danger than otherwise. How many people were surprised that they lost Mordin there while everyone else made it to safety? After it was explained in a dev post it all seems so blindingly obvious, but on an initial playthrough, not so much.

Modifié par IoCaster, 01 mars 2010 - 07:10 .

[ExtremeOne]

Bioware made the right choice in making the pipes strictly for a tech person. even though I wonder what in those pipes require a tech master

[MaaZeus]

Miranda is strong biotic, but still within human standards which are still weak compared to Asari who's life pretty much depend on Biotics (even their reproduction is based on "psi-powers"). She obviously cannot hold the bubble. Jack is exception for humans as she was already a biotic prodigy, and further enhanced by very brutal experiments. She is on par, or atleast close to Asari in raw biotic power, at the cost of her mental stability though.





Garrus is genius in group tactics, the way he managed to ****** every merch bands on omega without single loss of life is proof enough. He was just backstabbed, not his fault.

Miranda and Jacob are not exactly obvious choices. Though Miranda did self promotion and I believed her. But if you think about it, even before Lazarus project she has done all kinds of things from leading troops to whatever.



Jacob is even more obscure. Only thing that hints he is good leader is when he says that he is one of Mirandas top lieutenants (meaning he IS an officer and leads troops). And then he shoots it down by saying that he is just a Soldier. Even Miranda has doubts if you choose him for first Fire Team leader by saying "lets see if you are up to the task" or something. Luckily he was despite his own self doubt.



Tali is a thinker. While she does sort of lead troops and is respected among her people, their missions are vastly different and not exactly military kind. I think she more likely organised them, planning objectives etc... but in fight situations left tactical thinking to experienced soldiers like Kal'Reegar. She tells what they should do and leave it to others how to do it. Not a tactician.



Tali and Legion for Tech expert is SO obvious choice that it isnt even funny.



About escort, it might seem not so obvious choice, but if you think about it Mordin does make sense. First, he is a doctor, and people you rescued clearly need one (Chakwas included). Also he is a spec-ops, not a frontline fighter. Things like staying hidden while escorting people are exactly his kind of job.



Only thing I find bit questionable is Zaeeds unability to lead men. Yeah, he is mostly a sole survivor, but he still has more than enough experience leading men, more than Jacob possibly. He afterall was the founder of Blue Suns with Vido. Vido was doing to background paper work, but Zaeed lead the men on fights etc... If he was always just a selfish sole survivor, Blue Suns would have never gotten big when he was in charge.

[MaaZeus]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Bioware made the right choice in making the pipes strictly for a tech person. even though I wonder what in those pipes require a tech master

Its not the pipes, its just a way to get in. its hacking the doors to let both squads in too that requires tech expert.

[Sialater]

Garrus is the only one Miranda doesn't **** about if you choose him, then (cause I don't remember her objecting when I chose him)? She still complains even about Jacob?

[Pinkflamingo22]

People who think Zaeed should make a good leader, clearly have no idea of his past. Bioware is right. End of story.

[IoCaster]

MaaZeus wrote...

But if you think about it, even before Lazarus project she has done all kinds of things from leading troops to whatever.

I'm seriously curious. Where does this come from? Did I miss some dialogue choices that presented a detailed list of her many accomplishments, on or off the battlefield. I don't recall all of the evidence, that is presented in the game, that would lead anyone to believe the hype. Are some people kind of just filling in the blanks with imaginary abilities because they like her so much? Or maybe the background stuff is in that iPhone game that I never played or something. If that's the case then I wish they had found a way to include this information within the game (ME2) itself so that I would have some idea of how capable she's supposed to be. Judged solely on her dialogue in the game she didn't come across as very impressive as a leader. I'll give her plenty of credit for being an even bigger braggart than Zaeed though. 

At this point I'm going to just stop bashing Miranda. I'm sure many of the good people on this forum have grown weary of my ceaseless campaign of hating on her and rightfully so. My only excuse is that I was so disappointed in how her character was written that it really grated on me. I had such high hopes for her from the very beginning when she was revealed and was truly devastated by how she turned out. Please pardon my bitterness and I apologize to anyone I've offended. 

[Cloaking_Thane]

So Jacob can lead both teams successfully then?



That is pretty surprising.

[anmiro]

 I had no problem with Bioware's assessment of the characters capabilities. I think a lot of the people who say differently aren't looking at their character very objectively. Further more, I think if Bioware had let any and every character fill these roles without any consequences the choices would have carried no weight what so ever.

On the subject of Tali being as a capable a leader as Garrus:

Mutiny- revolt against constituted authority
Betray- to help the enemy 

I'm a huge Tali fan, I think as far Quarian's go, Tali is one of the most experienced, but not as a leader. Tali's squad died on Freedom Progress because Tali failed to assert  her authority. She gave them an order and they didn't listen and she couldn't stop them. Mutiny and betrayal are not the same thing. Garrus has a command presence. When he gives order people listen. If some one steps out of line Garrus has ability to put them back on. Tali has potential and I think she will grow into a Leader, but she is young and shes not there yet. Garrus makes much more sense in my opinion.

[MaaZeus]

IoCaster wrote...

MaaZeus wrote...

But if you think about it, even before Lazarus project she has done all kinds of things from leading troops to whatever.

I'm seriously curious. Where does this come from? Did I miss some dialogue choices that presented a detailed list of her many accomplishments, on or off the battlefield. I don't recall all of the evidence, that is presented in the game, that would lead anyone to believe the hype. Are some people kind of just filling in the blanks with imaginary abilities because they like her so much? Or maybe the background stuff is in that iPhone game that I never played or something. If that's the case then I wish they had found a way to include this information within the game (ME2) itself so that I would have some idea of how capable she's supposed to be. Judged solely on her dialogue in the game she didn't come across as very impressive as a leader. I'll give her plenty of credit for being an even bigger braggart than Zaeed though. 

At this point I'm going to just stop bashing Miranda. I'm sure many of the good people on this forum have grown weary of my ceaseless campaign of hating on her and rightfully so. My only excuse is that I was so disappointed in how her character was written that it really grated on me. I had such high hopes for her from the very beginning when she was revealed and was truly devastated by how she turned out. Please pardon my bitterness and I apologize to anyone I've offended. 

There is nothing direct, but I remember her talking that whenever Illusive Man wants something important done, (like Lazarus Project) he tends to choose Miranda because of her skills. This is just my memory though. And Jacobs self doubts also indicate that Miranda does most of the thinking and planning. Even though he is supposed to be Mirandas top lieutenant, Jacob says that "he is just a soldier".

Perhaps books or other games might give more clues, but as I said, Miranda is still quite obscure choice with only hints about her capability. Jacob is even more obscure with only one clue and even that he shoots it down with self doubt.

Modifié par MaaZeus, 01 mars 2010 - 08:42 .

[IoCaster]

MaaZeus wrote...

There is nothing direct, but I remember her talking that whenever Illusive Man wants something important done, (like Lazarus Project) he tends to choose Miranda because of her skills. This is just my memory though. And Jacobs self doubts also indicate that Miranda does most of the thinking and planning. Even though he is supposed to be Mirandas top lieutenant, Jacob says that "he is just a soldier".

Perhaps books or other games might give more clues, but as I said, Miranda is still quite obscure choice with only hints about her capability. Jacob is even more obscure with only one clue and even that he shoots it down with self doubt.

I really wish that the writers had done a better job with her character. I wanted to believe that she was awesome, but the evidence just wasn't there. Oh well, 'better luck next time'.

[Lord_Tirian]

anmiro wrote...

Mutiny and betrayal are not the same thing. Garrus has a command presence. When he gives order people listen. If some one steps out of line Garrus has ability to put them back on. Tali has potential and I think she will grow into a Leader, but she is young and shes not there yet. Garrus makes much more sense in my opinion.

Not only that, but Garrus' loyalty mission (Paragon way) makes clear that Sidonis only betrayed him after he was threatened/blackmailed into the betrayal and he still regretted it (he didn't even care if Garrus would shoot him) - *and* they went through the trouble to separate Garrus from his team before killing the team - this implicitly says they Garrus as leader of the team scared the hell out of them and they needed to remove him before they were able to kill the team. And Sidonis still regretted it, which shows that Garrus didn't totally misjudge him.

[Snowraptor]

if they were all able to do everyones job then you really only needed five people on your team, some may seem stupid but thats strategie, mind you jacob surviving a gunshot as team leader but zaeed couldnt makes no sence to me, and they both had loyalty

[BattleVisor]

R34P3RR3D33M3R wrote...

I mostly agree with their role distribution.
The only thing I don't completely agree with is Garrus being a suitable leader while Tali isn't. They both led teams in the past. Both their teams ended up dead. I find they should either both be viable leaders, or neither of them.

Aha what a Tali fanboy!

[Collider]

I just wish there was a segment or more than used Thane, Zaeed, Grunt, and Mordin. Technically you can use any of those to escort the crew, but that's hardly a specialized role.