401 réponses à ce sujet

[Corti78]

Neither. But if I had to choose it would be Kaidan. Someone that actually cares about femshep vs someone that see's her as nothing more than a "prize". It also doesn't help that Jacob says he wasn't good enough for Miranda but he's somehow good enough for Shepard? I think not.

Personally I don't mind Kaidan/Jacob being friends for femshep but I only see Liara or Garrus as her possible LI.

Modifié par Corti78, 01 mars 2010 - 12:31 .

[RiverRat]

Err. If the only options are those two? Shep still has her fingers...



Of those two, however... I guess Kaidan. If nothing else I still picture being able to kill Carth at the end KotOR with him around. It gives me a warm tingly feeling... What? I'm talking about the blood.

[ThatDancingTurian]

yoshibb wrote...

And no, Kaidan is not a whiner. He offers Shepard advice, Shepard asks about his backstory, Kaidan tells Shepard how he killed a turian by kicking him in the face, Shepard asks if there is anyway to help him get over it and Kaidan says he got over it a long time ago.

Actually, you don't even have to prompt him and he just starts going off about stupid BaAT all the time. "YANNO, this reminds me about Brain Camp!" Don't care, Kaidan.

[Nyx]

For me, it depends entirely on how I role-play my Shepard. On one Shepard, who's an intergalactic renegade badass, she needs someone who can step up their game, and confront her without bawling when she's out of line. And Jacob fits the bill as a paragon sidekick who's opinions and pragmaticism she can at least respect, even if an agreement is not met. Considering Jacob's involvement with Cerberus, you know he's keen enough to handle controversy while remaining calm and focused.

Kaidan, on the other hand, is perhaps more suitable to a wider pool of diverse Shepards. He can almost be paired off with anybody, except those who are extremely renegade, downright aggressive, or unforgiving without something good to hold on to. He may be unappealing as a love interest because the others are much more adventurous than he is. Other than that, the Kaidan romance doesn't have a lot of flaws, IMO. 

[cpolisch]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

yoshibb wrote...

And no, Kaidan is not a whiner. He offers Shepard advice, Shepard asks about his backstory, Kaidan tells Shepard how he killed a turian by kicking him in the face, Shepard asks if there is anyway to help him get over it and Kaidan says he got over it a long time ago.

Actually, you don't even have to prompt him and he just starts going off about stupid BaAT all the time. "YANNO, this reminds me about Brain Camp!" Don't care, Kaidan.

ARE YOU SERIOUS?  You had to PROMPT Garrus into SidonisBETRAYEDMYTEAMIAMABADPERSON.  No.  He didn't shut up about it in ME2.  If you are going to say Kaidan whined... I mean what did the rest of everybody do?  No.  Alot of your squad in ME2 didn't tell you about their lives right off because they were freakin criminals who've spent their entire lives on their own, though when they did open up, they whined 3 times as much as anyone in ME1.

Kaidan by a long shot, Jacob is just... not sincere.  The way he talks, the way Shepard talks to him, it just seems like Bioware did it as one big joke.

And as for females liking Kaidan more than males............. he wouldn't be a love interest character if it were the OTHER WAY AROUND.

[dreman9999]

Pannamaslo wrote...

LN19 wrote...

Pannamaslo wrote...

IMO Thane or Garrus. Jacob's romance is resembling a bad porn dialog and Kaidan is a whiny woos.

But if I had to choose I between the two I would say Jacob- less whining.

Elaborate?

IMO he is. Starting from his VA (I hated Carth) , through terrible haircut to his lines about  bad childhood, how humanity should be good for aliens and JOKER IS WAITING FOR YOU ON THE BRIDGE. Not to mention he dies too often comparing to other squadmates. Also he is just boring. Whiny woos I say. Sorry. 

Max out his barrer and push and give him the regen mod and everything is solved.

[The Angry One]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Heavy risk, but the priiiiiiize...

*throws assorted rotten fruits and vegetables*

[syllogi]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

yoshibb wrote...

And no, Kaidan is not a whiner. He offers Shepard advice, Shepard asks about his backstory, Kaidan tells Shepard how he killed a turian by kicking him in the face, Shepard asks if there is anyway to help him get over it and Kaidan says he got over it a long time ago.

Actually, you don't even have to prompt him and he just starts going off about stupid BaAT all the time. "YANNO, this reminds me about Brain Camp!" Don't care, Kaidan.

He tells Shepard his story about Brain Camp because he wants to make a point about the mission; namely that aliens are much like humans, not all of them are the same.  He also doesn't want Shepard to lose control like he did.  He cares about Shepard, so he tries to relate his past to the present situation in order to make his points.  That is not whining, unlike other squadmates, who complain about their past without reason.

Most people apparently just heard Carth's voice and never listened to what Kaidan had to say.  You really don't have to talk to him at all, but some of us find him pretty interesting.

[dreman9999]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

yoshibb wrote...

And no, Kaidan is not a whiner. He offers Shepard advice, Shepard asks about his backstory, Kaidan tells Shepard how he killed a turian by kicking him in the face, Shepard asks if there is anyway to help him get over it and Kaidan says he got over it a long time ago.

Actually, you don't even have to prompt him and he just starts going off about stupid BaAT all the time. "YANNO, this reminds me about Brain Camp!" Don't care, Kaidan.

I'm replaying ME curretly and He doesn't tell you anything unless you ask and you can always opt out of it if you want.

[ThatDancingTurian]

cpolisch wrote...

ARE YOU SERIOUS?  You had to PROMPT Garrus into SidonisBETRAYEDMYTEAMIAMABADPERSON.  No.  He didn't shut up about it in ME2.  If you are going to say Kaidan whined... I mean what did the rest of everybody do?  No.  Alot of your squad in ME2 didn't tell you about their lives right off because they were freakin criminals who've spent their entire lives on their own, though when they did open up, they whined 3 times as much as anyone in ME1.

Given that the Sidonis thing initiates a mission, of course you didn't have to prompt him. Kaidan's was all superfluous backstory, and yet he refuses to bring anything else to the table despite saying he's 'over' it.

I think the annoying part for me though wasn't that, but the fact that you had to drag him kicking and screaming through the relationship plot. Where Shep and Ashley are having cute, teasing conversations right before the final cutscene, Kaidan is once again forcing FemShep to tell him everything is going to be alright and that their relationship won't change anything, as if that's solely her responsibility. Basically he didn't take responsibility for the relationship at all and didn't make any decisions for himself. I don't think he's whiny, just a pushover that constantly forces FemShep to be the aggressor.

While I think women primarily make up Kaidan's fanbase, I don't think it's safe to say 'most' women like Kaidan. He's not that popular, and I too have seen a lot of women (myself included) that can't stand him.

EDIT: Typo'd.

Also, while I don't think Carth's voice suited him, I did listen to what Kaidan had to say (hey, I listened to Carth enough to really, really enjoy his romance). I tried giving him a shot, he just didn't deliver.

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 01 mars 2010 - 01:12 .

[Nyx]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

yoshibb wrote...

And no, Kaidan is not a whiner. He offers Shepard advice, Shepard asks about his backstory, Kaidan tells Shepard how he killed a turian by kicking him in the face, Shepard asks if there is anyway to help him get over it and Kaidan says he got over it a long time ago.

Actually, you don't even have to prompt him and he just starts going off about stupid BaAT all the time. "YANNO, this reminds me about Brain Camp!" Don't care, Kaidan.

True, but he is not impervious to Shepard's attempts to straighten him out, and push him away from 'the little black raincloud' as she calls it. Part of the reason why I believe he can't get over the BaAT incident is because he wasn't able to face what had happened without berating his actions, including holding himself to moral and self-possessed standards that was simply not available to him at the time. He couldn't accept that he was a victim to youthful irrationality, so he decided to shun out his all human needs instead. As Kaidan is a man of integrity, I can see why this would affect him this much. "I should have done more... I should have been more responsible." Many of us want to do the right thing, but none of us are capable of avoiding mistakes 100% of the time! Sometimes, you don't know it is the wrong decision until you make it. Moral idealism can blind anyone, preventing them from seeing the gray in between the black & white. Just ask Garrus.

Modifié par Nyx.Aeterna, 01 mars 2010 - 01:16 .

[dreman9999]

TeenZombie wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

yoshibb wrote...

And no, Kaidan is not a whiner. He offers Shepard advice, Shepard asks about his backstory, Kaidan tells Shepard how he killed a turian by kicking him in the face, Shepard asks if there is anyway to help him get over it and Kaidan says he got over it a long time ago.

Actually, you don't even have to prompt him and he just starts going off about stupid BaAT all the time. "YANNO, this reminds me about Brain Camp!" Don't care, Kaidan.

He tells Shepard his story about Brain Camp because he wants to make a point about the mission; namely that aliens are much like humans, not all of them are the same.  He also doesn't want Shepard to lose control like he did.  He cares about Shepard, so he tries to relate his past to the present situation in order to make his points.  That is not whining, unlike other squadmates, who complain about their past without reason.

Most people apparently just heard Carth's voice and never listened to what Kaidan had to say.  You really don't have to talk to him at all, but some of us find him pretty interesting.

I agree but Kaiden's problem is that he is not mr.action.He's not dramatic and non-agressive, aka too nice. He's an ok guy but he's too easy to step on and most guy's(like me) are too pro dominance to try to understand him at first.
Jacob is too layed back. Needs more story and impact. He's the fallow guy. I realy liked him until he bacame mr, bro hug then he got boring.

[thegoldfinch]

dreman9999 wrote...
I realy liked him until he bacame mr, bro hug then he got boring.

The bro hug he did at the end was a huge facepalm for me. Just... just... really? Really Jacob?

EDIT: You know, I haven't seen any Jacob fangirls... like, well, ever. There must be at least one out there, right?

Modifié par pixieface, 01 mars 2010 - 01:24 .

[Sialater]

Llandaryn wrote...

Jacob vs Kaiden which one is better for female Shepard?

As a friend, Kaidan (in ME1). Because he's solid and dependable and as wooden as pinocchio.

But then he screws you over on Horizon in ME2, so then obviously Jacob's better, because he's your new bro.

If you're talking about romances, I can't compare. All in all, I'd say Kaidan's the friend who'll follow you to the edge and try to pull you back if you fall over, but not at the expense of himself. Jacob's waiting for you to fall and he'll quite happily catch you and pick up the pieces. But it you want to jump, and want somebody to jump with you, Garrus is the better friend.

A good friend will bail you out of jail, the best friend is sitting next to you in the cell saying, "THAT was fun!"

[yoshibb]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

yoshibb wrote...

And no, Kaidan is not a whiner. He offers Shepard advice, Shepard asks about his backstory, Kaidan tells Shepard how he killed a turian by kicking him in the face, Shepard asks if there is anyway to help him get over it and Kaidan says he got over it a long time ago.

Actually, you don't even have to prompt him and he just starts going off about stupid BaAT all the time. "YANNO, this reminds me about Brain Camp!" Don't care, Kaidan.

He's using his own personal experiences to relate to your current problems. It is a way of giving advice. 

And what about Garrus since we are talking about whining?

ME1: I work for CSec, but I hate it because of all these stupid rules. Why can't I just kill whoever I want? But I didn't quit because my father would get mad at me so I'll just sit here and whine about it to you. Frankly, if you hadn't come along I probably would still be there.

Oh and there's this salarian scientist that got away, do you think you could help me take care of it. I'd really like to shoot him. We're not shooting him? Why? Look at him being all evil and experimenting on people. Alright, we'll do it your way. I guess it makes sense. I promise to do things differently from now on. 

ME2: Oh hey, Shepard turns out I didn't listen to a thing you said and I started my own group that kills people we deem evil without going through justice system. But then this bastard guy betrayed me, do you think you could help me take care of that, too? I have to shoot that guy too. I can't believe you didn't let me shoot that Harkin guy though. Who's gonna bring that guy to justice? And by justice I mean cut his balls off for fun.

Why don't you let me shoot him? I want my revenge. Oh fine, whatever. We'll let him go. I guess he really is just is a shell of himself. I guess your right Shepard. Now away with you, I must finish these calibrations! 

For the record, I like Garrus. I get why he wants to do this and I don't mind that he vents on me. But if we compare him to Kaidan it's no contest of who's the bigger whiner. All it seems like Garrus does is complain, ask you to fix his mistakes, complain about how you go about fixing his mistakes, and then says he gets it only to go back to his old ways as soon as you leave him.


    

[crimsonrhodelia]

LN19 wrote...

yoshibb wrote...


And no, Kaidan is not a whiner. He offers Shepard advice, Shepard asks about his backstory, Kaidan tells Shepard how he killed a turian by kicking him in the face, Shepard asks if there is anyway to help him get over it and Kaidan says he got over it a long time ago.

That's right, no personal mission needed because, unlike the majority of Shepard's companions, he's got his **** straight. But yet in a crew filled with people talking about their fathers and mothers and daughters and sons and revenge plots and betrayals, he's the whiner?!

This

Seriously! I can't agree with yoshibb's post enough! I really, REALLY don't get how Kaidan ever ended up with this "whiner" reputation. Seems to me the only reason people think that is because they associate Carth, whom they found whiny, with him. Kaidan FTW.

[syllogi]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
Given that the Sidonis thing initiates a mission, of course you didn't have to prompt him. Kaidan's was all superfluous backstory, and yet he refuses to bring anything else to the table despite saying he's 'over' it.

I think the annoying part for me though wasn't that, but the fact that you had to drag him kicking and screaming through the relationship plot. Where Shep and Ashley are having cute, teasing conversations right before the final cutscene, Kaidan is once again forcing FemShep to tell him everything is going to be alright and that their relationship won't change anything, as if that's solely her responsibility. Basically he didn't take responsibility for the relationship at all and didn't make any decisions for himself. I don't think he's whiny, just a pushover that constantly forces FemShep to be the aggressor.

While I think women primarily make up Kaidan's fanbase, I don't think it's safe to say 'most' women like Kaidan. He's not that popular, and I too have seen a lot of women (myself included) that can't stand him.

EDIT: Typo'd.

Also, while I don't think Carth's voice suited him, I did listen to what Kaidan had to say (hey, I listened to Carth enough to really, really enjoy his romance). I tried giving him a shot, he just didn't deliver.

I didn't find that he was being "dragged" through the relationship plot, and since some people find him actually "pushy" when it comes to the romance, it seems like just a matter of perspective.

I saw Kaidan as being extremely cautious and careful, as he should be, since he was expressing interest in a superior officer.  While some people argue that romancing Ashley or Kaidan is unprofessional, I found the way Kaidan's romance was handled to be realistic and well done.  He won't indulge in a threesome with Shepard and Liara because if he's going to put his entire career on the line, it's going to be for a real relationship, not just a fling.  He behaves like a mature adult about the whole thing, which was new and refreshing for a female love interest in a video game.

It's all about preference, and I'm glad people got new choices in ME2, if they weren't interested in Kaidan or Liara.  Female characters often get the short end of the stick when it comes to love interests in games, but for me, Kaidan was the first video game character I really cared for, and he's still the best to me.

[ThatDancingTurian]

pixieface wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
I realy liked him until he bacame mr, bro hug then he got boring.

The bro hug he did at the end was a huge facepalm for me. Just... just... really? Really Jacob?

EDIT: You know, I haven't seen any Jacob fangirls... like, well, ever. There must be at least one out there, right?

Aww, I liked the bro hug. Jacob's the type of guy that my FemShep would hang out with, maybe grab a pizza and watch a dramedy medical buddy action flick (they're all the rage!) or a sports game or something... But he's definitely friend-zoned. His romance was just... ::shudders:: So bad I don't even want to think about it.

@Yoshibb: The difference is, Garrus would say, 'Saleon deserves to die. We should go and kill him.' and then you have to have a discussion on the right thing to do. Kaidan would go, 'So, there's this evil guy named Saleon.. I don't know.. What do YOU think we should do, Shepard? D8' ... Laaaame. When Garrus has issues, it's about things he's struggling with in the here and now. It's part of the plot. Kaidan is just living in the past and bringing up his own crap for no reason. He's just... boring. 

EDIT: I'm not going to say anything else about Kaidan. I really don't want to flame-bait here, honestly, I just can't be objective when it comes to him because I dislike him so much. I understand other people like him, but I just... can't. So, I'm not going to say anything disparaging anymore.

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 01 mars 2010 - 01:36 .

[Unata]

WilliamShatner wrote...

The correct answer is Liara.

I agree, Jacob is an idiot who's only thought is to "Space it" or "Bad idea" and Kadian will be saying "Not tonight dear, I've a headache" all the time due to L2 Biotics, Femshep really has rotten LI's, although Garrus has a great personality, just can't bring myself to kiss a skeleton.

[Joisan]

Kaidan is the only one for my femShep. He sees her as the woman she is inside while the rest of the galaxy just sees her as a symbol, as the Illusive Man so aptly puts it. All due respect to the Garrus and Thane fans, my Shepard didn't give either of them a backwards glance. Kaidan has been there for her through thick and thin and if that isn't good for Shepard then I don't know what is!

Modifié par Joisan, 01 mars 2010 - 01:34 .

[Aisynia]

Markinator_123 wrote...

Something I noticed is that the majority of Kaidan fans are females. Most males (like myself) can't stand him.

He's great looking, sensitive, and thoughtful.

[cpolisch]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

cpolisch wrote...

ARE YOU SERIOUS?  You had to PROMPT Garrus into SidonisBETRAYEDMYTEAMIAMABADPERSON.  No.  He didn't shut up about it in ME2.  If you are going to say Kaidan whined... I mean what did the rest of everybody do?  No.  Alot of your squad in ME2 didn't tell you about their lives right off because they were freakin criminals who've spent their entire lives on their own, though when they did open up, they whined 3 times as much as anyone in ME1.

Given that the Sidonis thing initiates a mission, of course you didn't have to prompt him. Kaidan's was all superfluous backstory, and yet he refuses to bring anything else to the table despite saying he's 'over' it.

I think the annoying part for me though wasn't that, but the fact that you had to drag him kicking and screaming through the relationship plot. Where Shep and Ashley are having cute, teasing conversations right before the final cutscene, Kaidan is once again forcing FemShep to tell him everything is going to be alright and that their relationship won't change anything, as if that's solely her responsibility. Basically he didn't take responsibility for the relationship at all and didn't make any decisions for himself. I don't think he's whiny, just a pushover that constantly forces FemShep to be the aggressor.

While I think women primarily make up Kaidan's fanbase, I don't think it's safe to say 'most' women like Kaidan. He's not that popular, and I too have seen a lot of women (myself included) that can't stand him.

EDIT: Typo'd.

Also, while I don't think Carth's voice suited him, I did listen to what Kaidan had to say (hey, I listened to Carth enough to really, really enjoy his romance). I tried giving him a shot, he just didn't deliver.

He was not forcing her to reassure him, he was cautious.  That's alot different  from being whiney.  Kaidan took the romance very seriously and didn't wanna mess around and screw it up.  That doesn't make him whiney.  It makes him different from Ashley, sure, but they aren't SUPPOSED to be interchangeable.

And to use the mission thing as an excuse for Garrus is unfair, just because they didn't have loyalty missions in ME1 doesn't mean that their backstories were less important, Bioware just took it in a new direction. 

[Jaron Oberyn]

They're both "girly men" as my good terminator buddy Annold would say.

[Joisan]

Markinator_123 wrote...

Something I noticed is that the majority of Kaidan fans are females. Most males (like myself) can't stand him.

Probably because he doesn't fit into your definition of what you think a "real man" is or should be.  But I would take a real life Kaidan over a "real man" any day of the week, and I know I'm not the only one.

Edit: And how in Andraste's name did Garrus get dragged into this?  I thought this was between Jacob and Kaidan, and there's just no contest there in my opinion.

Modifié par Joisan, 01 mars 2010 - 01:38 .

[shnellegaming]

I'm female and I say neither, Garrus all the way. I actually still have not romanced Jacob. I just feel that all the things FemShep says to him are too forward. I just can't bring myself to go that route.



I still do like Kaiden though. Just Garrus is a better fit.