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[Aisynia]

TeenZombie wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
Given that the Sidonis thing initiates a mission, of course you didn't have to prompt him. Kaidan's was all superfluous backstory, and yet he refuses to bring anything else to the table despite saying he's 'over' it.

I think the annoying part for me though wasn't that, but the fact that you had to drag him kicking and screaming through the relationship plot. Where Shep and Ashley are having cute, teasing conversations right before the final cutscene, Kaidan is once again forcing FemShep to tell him everything is going to be alright and that their relationship won't change anything, as if that's solely her responsibility. Basically he didn't take responsibility for the relationship at all and didn't make any decisions for himself. I don't think he's whiny, just a pushover that constantly forces FemShep to be the aggressor.

While I think women primarily make up Kaidan's fanbase, I don't think it's safe to say 'most' women like Kaidan. He's not that popular, and I too have seen a lot of women (myself included) that can't stand him.

EDIT: Typo'd.

Also, while I don't think Carth's voice suited him, I did listen to what Kaidan had to say (hey, I listened to Carth enough to really, really enjoy his romance). I tried giving him a shot, he just didn't deliver.

I didn't find that he was being "dragged" through the relationship plot, and since some people find him actually "pushy" when it comes to the romance, it seems like just a matter of perspective.

I saw Kaidan as being extremely cautious and careful, as he should be, since he was expressing interest in a superior officer.  While some people argue that romancing Ashley or Kaidan is unprofessional, I found the way Kaidan's romance was handled to be realistic and well done.  He won't indulge in a threesome with Shepard and Liara because if he's going to put his entire career on the line, it's going to be for a real relationship, not just a fling.  He behaves like a mature adult about the whole thing, which was new and refreshing for a female love interest in a video game.

It's all about preference, and I'm glad people got new choices in ME2, if they weren't interested in Kaidan or Liara.  Female characters often get the short end of the stick when it comes to love interests in games, but for me, Kaidan was the first video game character I really cared for, and he's still the best to me.

Well said, I really like Kaiden a lot. Definitely the most out of the available LIs, seconded by Thane.

Now if only Zaeed..

[crimsonrhodelia]

Aisynia wrote...

Markinator_123 wrote...

Something I noticed is that the majority of Kaidan fans are females. Most males (like myself) can't stand him.

He's great looking, sensitive, and thoughtful.

Exactly. I'm a big fan of the "still waters run deep" type and Kaidan certainly fits the bill. He's intelligent, rational but sensitive, mature and confident without being arrogant, and, though he might want to consider looking into a new hairdresser, he's the hottest pixelated guy this side of Alistair. What's not to love?

[Collider]

Just adding my two cents on this discussion about LI's. Everyone sees something different in their favorite LI - arguing about them is almost like arguing about what color is the best. I hate to see people start to dislike each other because they don't share the same opinion about whatever squad mate. Just my two cents.

[yoshibb]

Joisan wrote...

Markinator_123 wrote...

Something I noticed is that the majority of Kaidan fans are females. Most males (like myself) can't stand him.

Probably because he doesn't fit into your definition of what you think a "real man" is or should be.  But I would take a real life Kaidan over a "real man" any day of the week, and I know I'm not the only one.

Edit: And how in Andraste's name did Garrus get dragged into this?  I thought this was between Jacob and Kaidan, and there's just no contest there in my opinion.

It's like when there's a discussion about Miranda vs. Ashley. Someone always comes in and goes 'Tali FTW' 

[Apollo Starflare]

Garrus.



Oh wait... If we are talking humans, then definitely Kaidan. I've never understood why so many people (usually guys?) have a problem with him. In fact I found him to have one of the more interesting backstories in ME1. Oh and I'm a guy, but my main Shep is female.



I did like the bro hug though.

[dreman9999]

crimsonrhodelia wrote...

LN19 wrote...

yoshibb wrote...


And no, Kaidan is not a whiner. He offers Shepard advice, Shepard asks about his backstory, Kaidan tells Shepard how he killed a turian by kicking him in the face, Shepard asks if there is anyway to help him get over it and Kaidan says he got over it a long time ago.

That's right, no personal mission needed because, unlike the majority of Shepard's companions, he's got his **** straight. But yet in a crew filled with people talking about their fathers and mothers and daughters and sons and revenge plots and betrayals, he's the whiner?!

This

Seriously! I can't agree with yoshibb's post enough! I really, REALLY don't get how Kaidan ever ended up with this "whiner" reputation. Seems to me the only reason people think that is because they associate Carth, whom they found whiny, with him. Kaidan FTW.

Oh my god.....He's the most emotionly stable person in all of Mass Effect......No wonder he's boring.

[dreman9999]

crimsonrhodelia wrote...

Aisynia wrote...

Markinator_123 wrote...

Something I noticed is that the majority of Kaidan fans are females. Most males (like myself) can't stand him.

He's great looking, sensitive, and thoughtful.

Exactly. I'm a big fan of the "still waters run deep" type and Kaidan certainly fits the bill. He's intelligent, rational but sensitive, mature and confident without being arrogant, and, though he might want to consider looking into a new hairdresser, he's the hottest pixelated guy this side of Alistair. What's not to love?

BlaH....That just TOO nice..It would be better if he had a chip on his sholder,  a raging alcoholic and hit's you, too.......What a man.

[crimsonrhodelia]

dreman9999 wrote...

crimsonrhodelia wrote...
Seriously! I can't agree with yoshibb's post enough! I really, REALLY don't get how Kaidan ever ended up with this "whiner" reputation. Seems to me the only reason people think that is because they associate Carth, whom they found whiny, with him. Kaidan FTW.

Oh my god.....He's the most emotionly stable person in all of Mass Effect......No wonder he's boring.

I did the troubled daddy issue thing with my ex-boyfriend for three and a half years, I'll happily give "boring whiner" a shot.

ETA: 

dreman9999 wrote...
BlaH....That just
TOO nice..It would be better if he had a chip on his sholder,  a raging
alcoholic and hit's you, too.......What a man.../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png

I like you, dreman9999!

Modifié par crimsonrhodelia, 01 mars 2010 - 01:56 .

[Aisynia]

crimsonrhodelia wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

crimsonrhodelia wrote...
Seriously! I can't agree with yoshibb's post enough! I really, REALLY don't get how Kaidan ever ended up with this "whiner" reputation. Seems to me the only reason people think that is because they associate Carth, whom they found whiny, with him. Kaidan FTW.

Oh my god.....He's the most emotionly stable person in all of Mass Effect......No wonder he's boring.

I did the troubled daddy issue thing with my ex-boyfriend for three and a half years, I'll happily give "boring whiner" a shot.

ETA: 

dreman9999 wrote...
BlaH....That just
TOO nice..It would be better if he had a chip on his sholder,  a raging
alcoholic and hit's you, too.......What a man.../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png

I like you, dreman9999!

lol

[Eclesis]

Between those two? Jacob, I guess, since he's still alive. Liked Ashley better as a character than Kaidan, so... yeah.



Don't get where the "whiny" thing comes from though; can't say I'd apply that label to any of the ME characters. You're supposed to never talk about your background and leave psychic!Shepard to somehow magically figures it out?

[Nyx]

Sialater wrote...

Llandaryn wrote...

Jacob vs Kaiden which one is better for female Shepard?

As a friend, Kaidan (in ME1). Because he's solid and dependable and as wooden as pinocchio.

But then he screws you over on Horizon in ME2, so then obviously Jacob's better, because he's your new bro.

If you're talking about romances, I can't compare. All in all, I'd say Kaidan's the friend who'll follow you to the edge and try to pull you back if you fall over, but not at the expense of himself. Jacob's waiting for you to fall and he'll quite happily catch you and pick up the pieces. But it you want to jump, and want somebody to jump with you, Garrus is the better friend.

A good friend will bail you out of jail, the best friend is sitting next to you in the cell saying, "THAT was fun!"

I usually won't comment on other characters in the wrong thread, but this is why Mr. Vakarian is my number one love interest. He is much more than a LI, he's also my main Shepard's best friend, her trusted confidante.

For some reason, I develop real soft spots for characters who risk their limb just to demonstrate the extent of their loyalty to someone. It's not always the smartest thing (like Garrus entering the plague zone) to do, but knowing how far they'd go for someone they trust is very comforting to me. And as the inevitable happens, Liara is now considered one of my preferred LI's.  

dreman9999 wrote...

[Kaidan]'s an ok guy but he's too easy to step
on and most guy's(like me) are too pro dominance to try to understand
him at first.

Yeah, my domineering renegade Shepard would, too, step all over him. Ouch. For her, only Jacob or Thane can keep up. Garrus is a little too accepting of Shepard's BS, which I don't want for this character.  

dreman9999 wrote...
 Needs more story and impact.
He's the fallow guy.

I agree. If they expanded on his character like they did in ME: Galaxy, Jacob would have greater potential. There's still ME3 (and possibly DLCs) to look forward to, so who knows what direction their relationship ends up growing into.

[yoshibb]

dreman9999 wrote...

crimsonrhodelia wrote...

LN19 wrote...

yoshibb wrote...


And no, Kaidan is not a whiner. He offers Shepard advice, Shepard asks about his backstory, Kaidan tells Shepard how he killed a turian by kicking him in the face, Shepard asks if there is anyway to help him get over it and Kaidan says he got over it a long time ago.

That's right, no personal mission needed because, unlike the majority of Shepard's companions, he's got his **** straight. But yet in a crew filled with people talking about their fathers and mothers and daughters and sons and revenge plots and betrayals, he's the whiner?!

This

Seriously! I can't agree with yoshibb's post enough! I really, REALLY don't get how Kaidan ever ended up with this "whiner" reputation. Seems to me the only reason people think that is because they associate Carth, whom they found whiny, with him. Kaidan FTW.

Oh my god.....He's the most emotionly stable person in all of Mass Effect......No wonder he's boring.

Everyone in this game is always asking you to do something for them. When someone doesn't do that it's kind of a thumbs way up kind of thing. Like someone saying, "No, I'm fine, Shepard. But what about you? That whole saving the galaxy must be pretty rough." 

[yoshibb]

double post

Modifié par yoshibb, 01 mars 2010 - 02:05 .

[Joisan]

Nyx.Aeterna wrote...

I agree. If they expanded on his character like they did in ME: Galaxy, Jacob would have greater potential. There's still ME3 (and possibly DLCs) to look forward to, so who knows what direction their relationship ends up growing into.

That's not the problem most people I know have with Jacob.  The main problem with Jacob is that some of his and Shepard's romance dialogue sounds way over-the-top sleazy.  The Kaidan/Shepard love scene made me melt with how tasteful and romantic the dialogue leading up to it was.  You get the sense that these two genuinely care about each other and are in a mature, committed relationship.  The Jacob love scene felt more like a booty call.

[crimsonrhodelia]

yoshibb wrote...
Everyone in this game is always asking you to do something for them. When someone doesn't do that it's kind of a thumbs way up kind of thing. Like someone saying, "No, I'm fine, Shepard. But what about you? That whole saving the galaxy must be pretty rough." 

Exactly! I was honestly extremely pleasantly surprised when I got to that point that Kaidan said he'd gotten over it, especially after having played BW games in the past. I feel like Kaidan's the only person, certainly in ME1, since I've read Thane/Jacob do this to some extent in ME2, to express concern about you and how you're handling everything that's happening.

The impression I got that Jacob's romance is more of a hook up than an actual relationship is certainly not helped by his calling you a tease and telling you he loves you if you choose to reject him before going through the relay. Seems like the same tired old lines probably some of the women here have heard before.

ETA: There just doesn't seem to be enough dialogue between Shep and Jacob to even suggest he'd come to the point of actually loving her. I laughed when I saw that line.

Modifié par crimsonrhodelia, 01 mars 2010 - 02:13 .

[Sharn01]

I say Liara, and my wife is torn between Garrus and Liara

But just between Kaiden and Jacob, then Kaiden, by light years. Kaiden is at least a straight shooter who is reliable.

Jacob is some loser who join's Cerberus, and unlike the majority of Cerberus worker's, he know's or at least has some idea of what they really are. If he is as talented as the game tries to make people believe he is, his services could have been just as beneficial if not moreso elsewhere.

That is just the person Jacob is, that is not even counting how awful not only is the romance of the character, but any interaction with the character whatsoever. Forced flirting right from the start that causes many femShep player's to just ignore his character completely. 

Then we get to the fact that Jacob is not good enough for Miranda, but he is plenty good for femShep. so basicly this is Jacob: Yo Shepard, I got shot down by Miranda and ain't gonna try again because I am obviously not good enough for her, but you just a skanky ho, lets get it on.

The worst part is, that is about how tasteful the whole romance is as well.

Oh, yes, I almost forgot, Jacob's upper body is overdone, in the romance scene he apparently swell's to a larger size when taking off his shirt as well, but from the waist down he is built like a 12 year old girl.

Modifié par Sharn01, 01 mars 2010 - 02:22 .

[Tamyn]

Looks: Kaidan > Jacob

Voice: Kaidan > Jacob

Personality: Kaidan > Jacob

Dialogue: Kaidan > Jacob

Overall: Thane > Garrus > Kaidan > Liara > Jacob

Modifié par Tamyn, 01 mars 2010 - 02:21 .

[Sialater]

yoshibb wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

crimsonrhodelia wrote...

LN19 wrote...

yoshibb wrote...


And no, Kaidan is not a whiner. He offers Shepard advice, Shepard asks about his backstory, Kaidan tells Shepard how he killed a turian by kicking him in the face, Shepard asks if there is anyway to help him get over it and Kaidan says he got over it a long time ago.

That's right, no personal mission needed because, unlike the majority of Shepard's companions, he's got his **** straight. But yet in a crew filled with people talking about their fathers and mothers and daughters and sons and revenge plots and betrayals, he's the whiner?!

This

Seriously! I can't agree with yoshibb's post enough! I really, REALLY don't get how Kaidan ever ended up with this "whiner" reputation. Seems to me the only reason people think that is because they associate Carth, whom they found whiny, with him. Kaidan FTW.

Oh my god.....He's the most emotionly stable person in all of Mass Effect......No wonder he's boring.

Everyone in this game is always asking you to do something for them. When someone doesn't do that it's kind of a thumbs way up kind of thing. Like someone saying, "No, I'm fine, Shepard. But what about you? That whole saving the galaxy must be pretty rough." 

Yeah... but then he dumps you, because he can't give you the benefit of the doubt.  He couldn't even say, "You know I love you, right? And I'm thrilled you're alive!  But I can't come with you because the Alliance owns my ass."   No, it's "You betrayed me, I can't trust you!  I LOVED you!  Are you sure you're you?" My Shep still hasn't forgiven him and no, an e-mail?  Really?  She's going in to hell and the best he can do is an email saying "Look me up if you survive?"  Also, doesn't scream emotionally stable to me, he always leaves himself an "out" after all.  There is no "out" in a relationship.


I do still like Kaiden probably more than Jacob, but my jury is still out on that character, so I can't say for sure.  Kaiden isn't whiny, he's guarded.  But he's OK with who he is.  He's a more complex character than he seems on the surface, especially if you don't talk to him with different classes of characters.

[Urazz]

I dunno, as a male, I didn't really care about any of the female romances too much. Truth be told, I feel they half-assed the romance options for female shepards (sadly Liara is the best one out of that bunch in my opinion but her romance is for both genders of shepard and is the same regardless if I recall) when compared to the male shepard romance options.



Jacob's romance felt more like a fling while Kaidan felt too much like a goody-two-shoes type of guy with no major flaws or anything to make him stand out. Jacob had that problem as well to a lesser extent but it was outshined by the 'fling' feel to the romance.



The problem is that both characters just don't have any major flaw or conflict with any of the other major characters. Jacob had the groundwork of one with Thane, but that would've just made Jacob seemed like the 'bad guy' in the conflict since Thane is basically the 'repetant assasin' mourning over his wife and worrying about his son.



Problem is that none of the male characters were set up to really get in a conflict with each other without one of them seeming like the bad guy regardless of the PC being male or female. Alistair and Zevhran from Dragon Age: Origins are a good example of two guys in the party being in a conflict regardless of the PC's gender (more on Alistair's side than Zevhran's though).

[Riona45]

yoshibb wrote...

Seriously this whole voice acting thing is really annoying. Is Matriarch Benezia Deanna Troi? Is Captain Anderson Goliath from Gargoyles? Is Miranda Sarah Walker from Chuck?

They are completely different characters! Why is that so hard to get?

I am so with you here.  This is one of the most annoying memes I've seen, up there with the "Alistair always leaves you if you aren't noble" myth.

And no, Kaidan is not a whiner. He offers Shepard advice, Shepard asks about his backstory, Kaidan tells Shepard how he killed a turian by kicking him in the face, Shepard asks if there is anyway to help him get over it and Kaidan says he got over it a long time ago.

That's right, no personal mission needed because, unlike the majority of Shepard's companions, he's got his **** straight. But yet in a crew filled with people talking about their fathers and mothers and daughters and sons and revenge plots and betrayals, he's the whiner?!

I agree.  It seems that for some people, once they develop a prejudice, it sticks, and/or they don't even bother to think it through rationally.  Perhaps they don't want to.

[oreolover15]

Kaidan. Kaidan. Kaidan. I think my signature says it all.

[Urazz]

Blah, lagfest and accidently posted again.

Modifié par Urazz, 01 mars 2010 - 02:26 .

[Elessara]

Kaidan > Jacob

[Nyx]

Joisan wrote...

Nyx.Aeterna wrote...

I agree. If they expanded on his character like they did in ME: Galaxy, Jacob would have greater potential. There's still ME3 (and possibly DLCs) to look forward to, so who knows what direction their relationship ends up growing into.

That's not the problem most people I know have with Jacob.  The main problem with Jacob is that some of his and Shepard's romance dialogue sounds way over-the-top sleazy.  The Kaidan/Shepard love scene made me melt with how tasteful and romantic the dialogue leading up to it was.  You get the sense that these two genuinely care about each other and are in a mature, committed relationship.  The Jacob love scene felt more like a booty call.

Ah, I didn't mention that wasn't a problem for his romance.  It was more of a general comment (or a response to dreman9999's post) on how Jacob's story and personality should be more fleshed out, which will help him from falling into the bland character trap. 

Also he's basically the only character on Shepard's ME:2 squad who doesn't have trauma issues. Since most of the ME2 romances revolved around talking about someone's insecurities and darker personal history, it was hard to make Jacob's plot as equally engaging. Even if they toned down the sleaze-bag dialogue, I think it sort of lacked the fire found in other romances.