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[The Happy One]

Jacob sucks, his dialogue is cringe worthy. Kaiden's dialogue is bearable, but the delivery is cringeworthy. They both suck, in short.

[Joisan]

Sialater wrote...

No, an e-mail?  Really?  She's going in to hell and the best he can do is an email saying "Look me up if you survive?" 

I think it would be unfair to judge Kaidan's character based only on that because the lack of much followup to Horizon is purely Bioware tried to do too much with the 6 or 7 new LIs in ME2 plus the returning LIs from ME1 and guess who got shafted as a result.  Exactly what I was afraid of.  *Glares daggers at the Bioware devs*

Modifié par Joisan, 01 mars 2010 - 02:29 .

[Elessara]

What I hated was ... whenever I wanted to show just a FRIENDLY interest in Jacob, Shepard would lean back suggestively and say, I just want to "talk" for a bit. First time I heard that I was like *blink* umm okay no more talking to Jacob.

[The Angry One]

It's a shame because Jacob and FemShep do have some nice plutonic dialog if you keep out of the romance crap, and hey the bro-hug is cute.

You know what gets me? After the suicide mission you can choose the same option and FemShep will ask if Jacob wants to talk IN A NORMAL, NON-SLEAZY VOICE.

So they freaking *had* a proper greeting for FemShep/Jacob recorded and they didn't use it till right at the end. Gimme a break.

[Sharn01]

Joisan wrote...

Sialater wrote...

No, an e-mail?  Really?  She's going in to hell and the best he can do is an email saying "Look me up if you survive?" 

I think it would be unfair to judge Kaidan's character based only on that because the lack of much followup to Horizon is purely Bioware tried to do too much with the 6 or 7 new LIs in ME2 plus the returning LIs from ME1 and guess who got shafted as a result.  Exactly what I was afraid of.  *Glares daggers at the Bioware devs*

They screwed up all the ME1 love interest's in ME2 in an attempt to lock them out of the game.  I am very surprised they took this path unless the ME2 crew will not have a signifigant role in ME3, if they do then the whole reason for the ME1 character lock out is thrown out the window.  This is not an argument to get rid of the ME2 cast, just that their logic behind the reason is faulty if the ME2 cast does have a large role.

But, the main problem with the Ashley/Kaiden and Liara romance's dilaog in ME2 is that there where no reasonable replies on Shepard's part, throughout the game Shepard show's how capable s/he is when dealing with people, but when it comes to the three ME1 character's Shep just sit or stands there staring blankly at them with out anything to say.

I will say this about Kaiden and Ashley, despite whatever I feel about the character's, they stood by their principle's in not even thinking of joining up with Cerberus, something I can not say for Shepard through poor writing, or Jacob and Miranda who apparently are OK with mass murder and human/alien experimentation against their will.

[Sialater]

Joisan wrote...

Sialater wrote...

No, an e-mail?  Really?  She's going in to hell and the best he can do is an email saying "Look me up if you survive?" 

I think it would be unfair to judge Kaidan's character based only on that because the lack of much followup to Horizon is purely Bioware tried to do too much with the 6 or 7 new LIs in ME2 plus the returning LIs from ME1 and guess who got shafted as a result.  Exactly what I was afraid of.  *Glares daggers at the Bioware devs*

I can excuse that to a certain extent, and I will have one celibate run-through where my Shep's not over Kaiden and won't look elsewhere (I refuse to call it cheating since once someone throws the word "betryal" out there, it's over).  BUT, you have to work with what you're given and that's what we were given.  I think he's a better personality fit for my Paragon Shep, but the Paragrade hasn't looked back.

[Elessara]

What? Ok, how do you talk to that guy without getting all flirty? I tried a couple of lines and all I got was this come on response in a "Come get me" voice. I gave up.

[Sharn01]

The Angry One wrote...

It's a shame because Jacob and FemShep do have some nice plutonic dialog if you keep out of the romance crap, and hey the bro-hug is cute.
You know what gets me? After the suicide mission you can choose the same option and FemShep will ask if Jacob wants to talk IN A NORMAL, NON-SLEAZY VOICE.
So they freaking *had* a proper greeting for FemShep/Jacob recorded and they didn't use it till right at the end. Gimme a break.

I did not know this, that just makes it worse because that means it was not a mistake.

[Gabey5]

The Happy One wrote...

Jacob sucks, his dialogue is cringe worthy. Kaiden's dialogue is bearable, but the delivery is cringeworthy. They both suck, in short.

im inclined to agree,

[The Angry One]

Elessara wrote...

What? Ok, how do you talk to that guy without getting all flirty? I tried a couple of lines and all I got was this come on response in a "Come get me" voice. I gave up.

Stick to renegade-ish choices mostly, stuff about duty and how the crew have to obey you and stuff.
The first few lines are always cringeworthy but skip past those and it gets a lot better.

[Joisan]

Nyx.Aeterna wrote...

Ah, I didn't mention that wasn't a problem for his romance.  It was more of a general comment (or a response to dreman9999's post) on how Jacob's story and personality should be more fleshed out, which will help him from falling into the bland character trap. 

Also he's basically the only character on Shepard's ME:2 squad who doesn't have trauma issues. Since most of the ME2 romances revolved around talking about someone's insecurities and darker personal history, it was hard to make Jacob's plot as equally engaging. Even if they toned down the sleaze-bag dialogue, I think it sort of lacked the fire found in other romances.

That's exactly why I love Kaidan, though!  Sure, angst-filled romances a la Carth from KotOR can be wonderfully touching, and don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of that romance.  It was believable and incredibly powerful given his character and the nature of the game world.  That can get old after a while, though, and let's face it, exactly how often does a romance like that come along in the real world?  Not very.  For me, Kaidan was a breath of fresh air after Carth.  His relationship with Shepard struck me as the sort of romance you might actually see in the real world, and was just as touching and powerful in its way.  Even Horizon... I wouldn't want that scene to have happened any other way, except maybe a better paragon response than the "how've you been?"  What was missing was good, in-depth followup to that showing how Kaidan and Shepard sort out what's happened.  A gap which fanfic writers have not hesitated to fill.

[Elessara]

Well, call me racist but I'm not really into aliens. And Garrus was my bud. If he was human I still wouldn't be interested in having him as an LI cause ... it would just feel weird to get it on with a good friend.

[Elessara]

Thanks Angry One. I'll have to try that. Generally I dislike the tone of the renegade responses because they make Shep seem like a complete jerk. Although some of the paragon moral outrage responses are way over the top too.

[Eshaye]

 I don't understand people that are all pissed off at Ash or Kaidan over Horizon and/or the email... Think about it for one second, if YOUR love disappeared for 2 years and shows up almost out of nowhere, what your reaction be? 

I'd bet for 90% of you, you'd be very upset and you wouldn't understand how and why right away and whether it's your right or not you'd feel betrayed. 

Sure it sucks we couldn't do any reparations in ME2 right away, would have loved that myself and a chance to have ME1 LI's more present as time goes on, but as for the initial reaction and the email I thought both those things were well handled. 

But that said, WTB Ashley/Kaidan DLC!!! Sure throw Liara in there too... XD  And to answer OP, Kaidan all the way, don't make me tell you in how many ways I want to crush Jacob as an LI! Cool dude, painful romance, if you can call it that even. 

[Eshaye]

The Angry One wrote...

It's a shame because Jacob and FemShep do have some nice plutonic dialog if you keep out of the romance crap, and hey the bro-hug is cute.
You know what gets me? After the suicide mission you can choose the same option and FemShep will ask if Jacob wants to talk IN A NORMAL, NON-SLEAZY VOICE.
So they freaking *had* a proper greeting for FemShep/Jacob recorded and they didn't use it till right at the end. Gimme a break.

 Can someone mod that? Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

[Sialater]

Eshaye wrote...

 I don't understand people that are all pissed off at Ash or Kaidan over Horizon and/or the email... Think about it for one second, if YOUR love disappeared for 2 years and shows up almost out of nowhere, what your reaction be? 

Sure, honey, where do I sign up?  How can I help?  What do you need?

[Sharn01]

Sialater wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

 I don't understand people that are all pissed off at Ash or Kaidan over Horizon and/or the email... Think about it for one second, if YOUR love disappeared for 2 years and shows up almost out of nowhere, what your reaction be? 

Sure, honey, where do I sign up?  How can I help?  What do you need?

You dont want a relationship then, you want a lap dog.

[The Angry One]

Sialater wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

 I don't understand people that are all pissed off at Ash or Kaidan over Horizon and/or the email... Think about it for one second, if YOUR love disappeared for 2 years and shows up almost out of nowhere, what your reaction be? 

Sure, honey, where do I sign up?  How can I help?  What do you need?

Okay let's say you and the love of your life saved the world from some great calamity.
Then that love vanishes for 2 years, presumed dead, then you hear they're alive and well and working for the Taliban.
Would you drop anything and immediately go with them when they turn up and confirm that they are in fact working for a terrorist group you've fought before?

[Aisynia]

Eshaye wrote...

 I don't understand people that are all pissed off at Ash or Kaidan over Horizon and/or the email... Think about it for one second, if YOUR love disappeared for 2 years and shows up almost out of nowhere, what your reaction be? 

I'd bet for 90% of you, you'd be very upset and you wouldn't understand how and why right away and whether it's your right or not you'd feel betrayed. 

Sure it sucks we couldn't do any reparations in ME2 right away, would have loved that myself and a chance to have ME1 LI's more present as time goes on, but as for the initial reaction and the email I thought both those things were well handled. 

But that said, WTB Ashley/Kaidan DLC!!! Sure throw Liara in there too... XD  And to answer OP, Kaidan all the way, don't make me tell you in how many ways I want to crush Jacob as an LI! Cool dude, painful romance, if you can call it that even. 

Yeah and not just showed up out of the blue, but working for what you always thought was the enemy.

It would feel like betrayal. I don't blame Kaiden for his reactions. He didn't have time to think about it out there in that field. After he had time to cool down, he sent a nice email.

Now if only we could correspond..

[Nyaore]

Eshaye wrote...

 I don't understand people that are all pissed off at Ash or Kaidan over Horizon and/or the email... Think about it for one second, if YOUR love disappeared for 2 years and shows up almost out of nowhere, what your reaction be? 

I'd bet for 90% of you, you'd be very upset and you wouldn't understand how and why right away and whether it's your right or not you'd feel betrayed. 

Sure it sucks we couldn't do any reparations in ME2 right away, would have loved that myself and a chance to have ME1 LI's more present as time goes on, but as for the initial reaction and the email I thought both those things were well handled. 

But that said, WTB Ashley/Kaidan DLC!!! Sure throw Liara in there too... XD  And to answer OP, Kaidan all the way, don't make me tell you in how many ways I want to crush Jacob as an LI! Cool dude, painful romance, if you can call it that even. 

Eh, I understood their motivations perfectly and can relate to why they choose to verbally abuse the person they care about given the circumstances during the meeting on Horizon. My Kaidan!Shepard however could not get over the fact that the one person in the world who SHOULD have trusted her, didn't. Ashley and Kaidan are literally the only squadmates from the original game who could not get passed the initial shock of Shepard working for Cerberus. Heck, even Liara and Wrex are supportive of you in some capacity even if they can't drop everything to come and help you save the galaxy yet again. And Tali, the one character who has the most reason to distrust Cerberus given what they did to the Fleet in one of the novels, can even put aside her differences in order to work with YOU - not them.
That, coupled with the weak email apology, pretty much signed the death notice for their relationship in that particular Shepard's mind. *shrugs* Again, I'd have personally given them the benefit of the doubt and understood why they decided to bite my head off instead of listening to what I had to say, but in that same breath I can understand why people would not be able to get over their actions.

Modifié par Nyaore, 01 mars 2010 - 02:54 .

[crimsonrhodelia]

The Angry One wrote...
You know what gets me? After the suicide mission you can choose the same option and FemShep will ask if Jacob wants to talk IN A NORMAL, NON-SLEAZY VOICE.
So they freaking *had* a proper greeting for FemShep/Jacob recorded and they didn't use it till right at the end. Gimme a break.

...That is ridiculous. Then they rather shot themselves in the foot there, didn't they? 

[The Angry One]

Aisynia wrote...

It would feel like betrayal. I don't blame Kaiden for his reactions. He didn't have time to think about it out there in that field. After he had time to cool down, he sent a nice email.

Now if only we could correspond..

That's the big problem here, no way to reply, no followup scene.
Hell we get more closure with Wrex than we do with Kaidan or Ashley. An omission by the devs though, not a character flaw.

[syllogi]

The Angry One wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

 I don't understand people that are all pissed off at Ash or Kaidan over Horizon and/or the email... Think about it for one second, if YOUR love disappeared for 2 years and shows up almost out of nowhere, what your reaction be? 

Sure, honey, where do I sign up?  How can I help?  What do you need?

Okay let's say you and the love of your life saved the world from some great calamity.
Then that love vanishes for 2 years, presumed dead, then you hear they're alive and well and working for the Taliban.
Would you drop anything and immediately go with them when they turn up and confirm that they are in fact working for a terrorist group you've fought before?

My younger brother and I had a conversation like this once, where he was outraged when I told him I would turn him in if he was guilty of murder and hiding out.  UMM...Sorry???  I can still love my brother when I call the police and get his ass thrown in prison.  Some people will understand it, some won't.

[Sialater]

Sharn01 wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

 I don't understand people that are all pissed off at Ash or Kaidan over Horizon and/or the email... Think about it for one second, if YOUR love disappeared for 2 years and shows up almost out of nowhere, what your reaction be? 

Sure, honey, where do I sign up?  How can I help?  What do you need?

You dont want a relationship then, you want a lap dog.

I wouldn't ask questions.  I trust him.  I'd want a damned good explanation, but until proven otherwise, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and back him 100%

And I believe you have it backwards.  I think you were calling ME a lapdog, not my "LI."

And let me elaborate.  I understand their reaction.  My Shep's are also entitled to theirs, whatever it may be.

But you can't call it cheating when you've clearly been dumped.

Modifié par Sialater, 01 mars 2010 - 03:02 .

[Joisan]

Sialater wrote...

Married 7 years, together 10.  I wouldn't ask questions.  I trust him.  I'd want a damned good explanation, but until proven otherwise, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and back him 100%

And I believe you have it backwards.  I think you were calling ME a lapdog, not my "LI."

Even if he had joined the Taliban or the Ku Klux Klan?  You would honestly give him the benefit of the doubt?