204 réponses à ce sujet

[apotheosic]

i didnt reload, but unfortunately i had accidentally viewed a topic listing the best choices, and i had seen the best choices for tech, and the team leaders. so i didnt mean to cheat, but in the end i had a large advantage.

[Operation Genesis]

Well, I got most of the ship upgrades, but not many of the weapon ones, so I was really worried that people would die. I sent Tali through the vents because Miranda said we needed a tech, and Tali was full tech in the first game so I figured she would be a good choice.

For the team leader part I read the discription on the choosing screen and it said, "Hey, Garrus is good at this," so I picked him.

When we got to the bubble, the discription said "Hey, Samara and Jack are really good at this," and I was like, LOL, I'm not putting my life in Jack's hands. So Samara got us through that.

I sent Jacob back with the crew because I always thought of him as more of a crewmember than a squaddie. He did good.

For the final bit I believe I picked Garrus and Tali for my squaddies, since Garrus was my bro and Tali was my LI. Figured it would be more dramatic. So, unwittingly, I left Grunt and Zaeed behind with Mordin. Luck + Reading Discriptions ensured a full team survival.

[thegreateski]

No cheating.





Everyone lived my first time doing that mission. Got lucky.

[The Enkindler]

I did everything right the first time. I didn't have to cheat because I just thought about what my options were.



I had Garrus lead both teams because he has great experience at leading teams (from his Arcangel thing on Omega, before they died obviously but that was Sedonis' fault.)



I had Legion do the vents because I thought obviously he would probably do better in hot vents being a synthetic being and my Shepard also said he has the best hacking skills.



I had Samara do the biotic shield because she is a powerful Justicar with 400 years experience.



I sent Jacob back with the Normandy crew because I thought he'd do well at it. And he did - no casualties. Plus he did a cool handshake thing and said he was ready for anything on the ship.



Every time I had to take two with me, I always had Jack and Miranda. Miranda was the love interest, so it was very cool battling bad guys with her beside me. I wanted Jack on my team because I love the swearing and attitude. The powerful biotics she does also came in handy, as I used Miranda for more of the tech attacks while I did combat specialization.



So Garrus, Zaeed, Grunt, Thane, Samara, Legion, Tali and Mordin were left to hold the line and they did it. They all survived. I figure that the combination of all their skill sets combined helped - combat, biotics and tech - there was at least one of each of the most powerful there.



So in the end, I was pleased when I got back to the ship and found that everyone survived. I wasn't really sure until I walked around after the game was over and saw them all there giving you cheeky victory comments. You just have to make some good choices and hope they work.



Oh, and of course they were all loyal.

[Nyaore]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Nyaore wrote...

General consensus is that Mordin is glitched during that part of the game, and that the only sure fire way to save his scaly ass is to send him back with the crew or gain his loyalty and take him with you to fight the final boss. I'm sure Bioware will fix it eventually...

No get your facts straight. Its public knowledge that Mordin is the first to die at the 'hold the line' segment of the mission if you don't have strong soilder characters defending such as Grunt and Zaeed. Loyalty of your entire crew is also a factor. This is not a glitch.

Really? Because I had everyone's loyalty, had all the 'stronger' characters hold the line alongside Mordin, and pretty much every upgrade I could get my grubby little hands on, and he STILL died. I've heard of plenty of people also reporting the same thing.

Modifié par Nyaore, 01 mars 2010 - 12:52 .

[Skilled Seeker]

Vaenier wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Its not cheating, its fixing horrible design decisions made by BioWare. You are only cheating yourself if you let them die from faulty game development.

Mind shining some light upon these 'horrible design decisions' cheating scum?

Having a character die by doing the logical thing is a bad design. [Moridin holding the line instead of fighting a reaper in hand to hand combat...]
Having a character die because they are ignoring a characters history is a bad design. [using Tali, who led a suicide mission on halstrum place already, or Zaheed, a blue suns founder, or Mordin who is an STG operative, be the second squad leader.]
having a rock kill a squad member based on their loyalty is a bad design. how are loyal squad members better at surviving rocks?

Tali and Mordin lead recon + stealth missions not strike teams. Zaeed gets his squads killed if you ask him about his missions. So it is you who is ignoring character's history not Bioware.

[enormousmoonboots]

Vaenier wrote...
Having a character die because they are ignoring a characters history is a bad design. [using Tali, who led a suicide mission on halstrum place already, or Zaheed, a blue suns founder, or Mordin who is an STG operative, be the second squad leader.]

Tali, who got both of the squads she led killed? Zaeed, who was such a bad leader he was shot in the face for it? And almost every single campaign he led after that ended in the death of the rest of the squad? Mordin, the GENETICIST? The salarian STG was like ninjas. Mordin is terrible at direct combat.

[MPSai]

Nyaore wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Nyaore wrote...

General consensus is that Mordin is glitched during that part of the game, and that the only sure fire way to save his scaly ass is to send him back with the crew or gain his loyalty and take him with you to fight the final boss. I'm sure Bioware will fix it eventually...

No get your facts straight. Its public knowledge that Mordin is the first to die at the 'hold the line' segment of the mission if you don't have strong soilder characters defending such as Grunt and Zaeed. Loyalty of your entire crew is also a factor. This is not a glitch.

Really? Because I had everyone's loyalty, had all the 'stronger' characters hold the line alongside Mordin, and pretty much every upgrade I could get my grubby little hands on, and he STILL died. I've heard of plenty of people also reporting the same thing.

I've sent Mordin as the escort just in case. Try packing him off early.

[irene9876]

First playthrough I lost Mordin. Last 2 everyone survived.  I didn't need to reload.

Modifié par irene9876, 01 mars 2010 - 12:56 .

[archonambroseus]

Didn't cheat, just used common sense and no-one died (although one of those may have been luck).

Did everything I could before hitting the disabled Reaper since I was expecting to be Virmired during the Reaper IFF (read: the story hits a pace where I feel bad doing side-missions).  So by the time the crew was abducted everyone was on board and loyal.  Had every ship upgrade, saved the whole crew and sent Mordin back with them thinking that Doctor Chakwas could use the help (lucky, lucky me since he often dies doing what Salarians do best [holding the line]).  Legion in the vents since he's durable and a good techie.  Garrus lead both fire teams (didn't expect Jack to work well under a Cerberus operative).  Jack as the Biotic shield because of her CUT-SCENE POWER TO THE MAX.  Brought Samara and Miranda with at the end because I figured I'd need some serious crowd control going into the center of the base (lucky again I guess).

So I had a bit of luck with picks, but in general it's just a matter of thinking things through.  As for Mordin dying, probably part due to him just having a high squishiness factor and partially due to lots of people thinking he'd be good for the tech specialist.  As a general rule, don't trust detailed tech work to a person who doesn't know that "flammable" and "inflammable" mean the same thing.

[Vaenier]

The worst design flaw is the inability to leave moridin on the ship. Why do we have to bring everyone with us...

[Krogan Face]

All mine survied on the first play through, and i didnt go on the forums until i had already beaten the game.
Im kinda anal tho, did all the damn side quest to, wich was a mistake...i should have left them for after the mission, but i didnt know that was possible at the time.

[Maugrim]

I made it through with everyone living without cheating, unless you count listening to developer interviews stating that you'll want tie up any loose ends before the point of no return, which goes without saying is traveling through the Omega 4 relay. Choosing people for jobs is simple if you have an IQ in the double digits. The only place I could've made a mistake was choosing who was to hold the line but apparently I lucked out there too and everyone survived including Mordin. I was surprised and relieved to see all lived in my initial main canon playthrough.

[vigna]

Lost Jack (unloyal) and half my crew first playthrough. I dallied getting through the omega 4, because time usually isn't an issue unless there is a clock in the bottom right corner.

Modifié par vigna, 01 mars 2010 - 12:58 .

[Mnemnosyne]

For the final battle, no, I saved everyone on my first try.  Through mostly logic and a little luck.  Going in, I had obtained everyone's loyalty because it felt like the IFF was the 'point of no return' at which you would be forced into endgame, so I did all the loyalty missions first, then did Legion's.  I had, of course, upgraded every part of the Normandy.  Coincidentally, I had upgraded Jack even though I rarely use her - from what I understand, this random bit of luck came in handy.

On the suicide mission, I assigned Jacob as the first fire team leader since I had Garrus in my squad, and I didn't really want to inflate Miranda's ego any more than it already was.  I figured Jacob was a good choice for that since he was an alliance soldier and had decent experience before coming to Cerberus.  Legion was my tech specialist, because Tali was in my squad.  Everything went well, but fighting the Collectors proved difficult - they use barriers and armor, and I was playing Insanity on my first playthrough.

When I got the option to remake my squad, I switched things up and made Garrus fire team leader, then took Samara as part of my team for her Area Reave.  I hadn't upgraded Miranda's warp, so I wound up picking Thane for his Warp.  Now I had a team to take out barriers and armor.  I chose Jack for my biotic specialist because it certainly seemed like a good idea to have the most powerful biotic available doing this, not just any biotic.  And from what I've heard the choice to upgrade Jack earlier kept everyone alive throughout this.

I forget whether the rest of the crew was after the biotic segment or before - either way, I sent Zaeed back because he was my least trusted and least liked crewmember.  He was loyal though, so he did fine in getting everyone safely back to the Normandy.

For the final battle, though I would have liked to have Garrus and Tali or Garrus and Miranda at my side, I made the decision to keep Samara and Thane with me, since I figured I would be fighting more Barrier and Armor targets.  I left Garrus in charge of holding the line, because it was blatantly obvious that he's the best leader to defend a fortified position, considering how long he held out before I arrived when I recruited him.

If you pay attention to the characters and their abilities, it seems to me it's not difficult at all to make all the right choices.  If you overestimate people's abilities, or for example, if you listen to Miranda's opinion on all biotics being a good choice for the barrier (which clearly seems like an inflated opinion of herself moment) then you'll screw up, but overall it all makes sense, and if you're paying attention it doesn't seem difficult in the slightest to come out with no one left behind.

Edit: I also had read nothing about the mission at all, indeed, until I finished my first playthrough I avoided forums and refused to talk to any friends about the game at all, just to ensure that no spoilers accidentally slipped in.  Even in the months leading up to the game I refused to participate in forums or discussion about it just to ensure that as much as possible was entirely new to me when I experienced it.

Modifié par Koyasha, 01 mars 2010 - 01:00 .

[Oawa]

Vaenier wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Its not cheating, its fixing horrible design decisions made by BioWare. You are only cheating yourself if you let them die from faulty game development.

Mind shining some light upon these 'horrible design decisions' cheating scum?

Having a character die by doing the logical thing is a bad design. [Moridin holding the line instead of fighting a reaper in hand to hand combat...]
Having a character die because they are ignoring a characters history is a bad design. [using Tali, who led a suicide mission on halstrum place already, or Zaheed, a blue suns founder, or Mordin who is an STG operative, be the second squad leader.]
having a rock kill a squad member based on their loyalty is a bad design. how are loyal squad members better at surviving rocks?

Mordin can fight, but he by no means is a front line, hold the line fighter like that.  Mercs are one thing, but end almost endless surge of mindless killing machines is another. 

Being a "founder" of an organization doesn't necessarily mean you're the right person to lead.  STG is more of a "recon", undective type organization, they aren't front line fighters.

Your last one is just a nitpick imo.

[Booglarize]

Only Zaeed died on my first playthrough. I then replayed to get his loyalty achievement and, unsurprisingly, he survived the second time around and now I've got everyone alive. I might play a third time and intentionally kill him off just to get back to the "original" state of affairs - but I'm not sure whether it'll be worth it, since I doubt whether DLC characters will appear in the next game anyway.



I will say this though, the game didn't to a great job of explaining the "Hold the Line" mechanics and what exactly the ramifications would be for having certain combinations of people at that point, so I wouldn't begrudge someone for replaying to fix their 'mistake' if, say, Mordin randomly died for them during that segment. Someone could legitimately feel that a death at that point is due more to the vagaries of the game's internal mechanics than a direct result of one of their decisions.



Everything else, though - ship upgrades, how quickly you go to save your crew, fire team leaders, tech/biotic experts - was a clear-cut decision with some obvious right and wrong answers, so replaying to correct those mistakes is 'cheating' in a way.

[archonambroseus]

Vaenier wrote...

Having a character die
because they are ignoring a characters history is a bad design. [using
Tali, who led a suicide mission on halstrum place already, or Zaheed, a
blue suns founder, or Mordin who is an STG operative, be the second
squad leader.]

Uhg.  You deserve to get your squad killed.

[Krogan Face]

Vaenier wrote...

The worst design flaw is the inability to leave moridin on the ship. Why do we have to bring everyone with us...

 Because u spent 95% of the game building a team. 


Wow, u spend 95% of the game building a team.

[insochris]

not during the suicide mission, but i did reload Thane's loyalty mission a few times because i couldn't find the third "Update Thane" node, and that just wasn't going to stand with me!

[BatarianBob]

I lost Thane on my first play through, but no one else.



I didn't reload, but I'm also not keeping that play through for ME3. $60 on the game, I'm going to play it more than once.

[CaseyPreston]

How could any die? Its so easy, just use common sense, its not hard at all, and the cheating well I ahve no idea what your talking about, Mordin never died on mine in 2 playthroughs(everyone survived both) and I didnt take him with me to the last boss.

[Oawa]

Vaenier wrote...

The worst design flaw is the inability to leave moridin on the ship. Why do we have to bring everyone with us...

Personally, I really like Mordin's skills, had him with me on a lot of missions.  Even the final boss, because he was a great compliment to my playstyle.

[2342]

On my first play though I picked Miranda as my biotic specialist but before when I realized that she wouldn't be able to fight I reloaded and picked Samara instead. So I don't consider my actions cheating since I didn't know the outcome of picking Miranda.

[archonambroseus]

Koyasha wrote...

I sent Zaeed back because he was my least trusted and least liked crewmember.  He was loyal though, so he did fine in getting everyone safely back to the Normandy.

Aaaahhhhhhhh… I know it can certainly work out fine, but who would trust Zaeed to protect a bunch of non-coms after his loyalty mission???