204 réponses à ce sujet

[tropicalwave]

Strange I lost no one. Even when I tried to get Zaeed killed. What do I have to do to get people killed? Mordin lived!!! And obviously Tali isn't a good leader, when you first encounter her she can't keep her team alive... I'm not trusting that kind of loyalty. Zaeed is obviously out for himself and will only think to save his butt not everyone elses. A scientist is still a scientist even if he led a scientific, doesn't mean he can lead. After all he did say they got caught a few times and had to fight out of it.



And obviously rocks know who is loyal and stay away from them. They sure don't want to have the wrath of Shep on their minds, things tend to explode when Shep is around!!!! Rocks don't want to explode!



Personally I'm surprised that people had Miranda lead the squads. She doesn't strike me as one that would care if they lived or died, only that the mission was a success. ON a lighter note can y ou fail all the loyalty missions? I know of a few you can but don't know if you can fail them all?

[We Tigers]

I got everyone out the first time. I send Mordin back with the crew, figuring he'd done plenty of sneaky covert ops and would get them back there slowly, surely, and safely. Guess it was a good choice.

[Computron2000]

Sadly this is why subtle stories tend to lead to player outcry. Too many people don't bother to listen to the dialogue and end up complaining.

Zaeed is a survior but everyone with him constantly dies. If that is a good leader, i'm sure the same people love bosses who put the blame on any ****ups with you and send you to your career deaths through self preservation.

Tali is a good leader because she's led a *failed* mission? One in which she would have died if Shepard did not arrive? And from a girl whose unloyal response to shepard when he/she calls is "Shepard, they are everywhere! I can't do this! You got to get us out of here!" in a panicking voice?

Fighting hundreds of collectors in a holding position (little movement allowed) is apparently less dangerous than 1 Reaper with assorted 3-4 collectors slowly flying in? 1 Reaper who you could run circles around? 1 Reaper who you're fighting with a known intergalactic killer? 1 Reaper who actually isn't even fully functional?

Seriously sometimes i don't understand some people's logic

Modifié par Computron2000, 01 mars 2010 - 01:32 .

[Mlow44]

Tal-N wrote...

Having finished the game tonight and looking through the forums it seems to me that many people managed to have all of their team survive the suicide mission. Which boggles my mind when I consider that there are so many ways to make mistakes. Now, I can understand some people are just lucky but never in a million years would I have figured that leaving behind 6 people to 'hold the line' while taking two of my tough guys to deal with the boss would result in someone getting killed. I mean come on now, I lost Mordin because I DIDN'T take him to face the boss? That just doesn't make much sense. If anything facing the boss was one of the more dangerous things which could happen since it was 3 of us on a team while those holding the line were a small army.

But in any event, I feel that I have to live with the consequences of my actions in order to really benefit from taking part in a story where my choices effect the story itself. Reloading just because I now know how to save Mordin doesn't sit right with me and frankly I was very fond of that character and losing him will stick in my memory as part of a wonderful game experience. As far as I'm concerned, it is right up there with when Aerith was killed in Final Fantasy 7 but rather than it being predestined, I know it was a choice I made which caused it.

So what about you? Did you reload to fix a 'mistake' you made? Or did you simply accept that choices sometimes come with consequences you don't like? How often did you use the magical 'load' button to pull a Quantum Leap on your game?

i redid my entire Sentinel playthrough on Insanity because Mordin died. and the only reason he died was because i took Grunt with me to fight the final boss (Grunt has the highest "Hold the Line" value, as far as I've read since). Everything else went fine

[Booglarize]

Tal-N wrote...

I just feel a little peeved that Bioware feels he would have stood more of a chance escorting the crew back to the ship ALONE or facing down a Reaper and a horde of Collectors with only me and a squadmate. Like folks have said, it would have been nice to just tell him to stay on the ship and play with his test tubes because he was never a suitable choice for anything we did on that suicide mission.

I agree. The game really didn't do a good in-game job of explaining what exactly was going on in those final moments with non-squad crewmates. So if someone were to replay so they could avoid casualties that occurred due to the lack of information that the game provided, I wouldn't call it cheating. 

[eternalnightmare13]

Tal-N wrote...

Here's a question. Is it possible to have Shepard die? The impression I got from the previews and developer intervews is that it is possible to have him/her die on the suicide mission and therefore end up with a new lead character in ME3.

Yes, he can die.  Not sure how they'd handle that in ME3 nothing has been stated clearly - too early.  Though, I'd reckon they'd just have you create a new Shep and never acknowledge that your ME2 one ever existed or died.  In other words if your ME2 Shep dies that's the end of the storyline.

[Revenant_Mortalus]

Vaenier wrote...

having a rock kill a squad member based on their loyalty is a bad design. how are loyal squad members better at surviving rocks?

Actually, Jacob explains this.  If a squad member isn't loyal, then the idea is that they're distracted because they have unfinished business.  When their mind isn't on the job, mistakes happen.

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

Tal-N wrote...

Here's a question. Is it possible to have Shepard die? The impression I got from the previews and developer intervews is that it is possible to have him/her die on the suicide mission and therefore end up with a new lead character in ME3.

Yes, he can die.  Not sure how they'd handle that in ME3 nothing has been stated clearly - too early.  Though, I'd reckon they'd just have you create a new Shep and never acknowledge that your ME2 one ever existed or died.  In other words if your ME2 Shep dies that's the end of the storyline.

This has been addressed as well.  Can't find the link but there was an interview where it was stated that if your shepard dies then you simply won't be able to import that character to ME3 (makes sense).  Tal-N is right, you'd just start from scratch in ME3, or import a character that survived...

[Reiella]

Vaenier wrote...

Its not cheating, its fixing horrible design decisions made by BioWare. You are only cheating yourself if you let them die from faulty game development.

Erm, faulty game development?  Really just sounds like the use of a literary device that you may not much like.

Similarly so, was Wrex faulty game development in ME1?

[Tal-N]

Either that or you end up playing as one of the other consistant characters in the series like Garrus, Tali or whoever.

[eternalnightmare13]

tropicalwave wrote...

Strange I lost no one. Even when I tried to get Zaeed killed. What do I have to do to get people killed? Mordin lived!!!  ON a lighter note can y ou fail all the loyalty missions? I know of a few you can but don't know if you can fail them all?

I used Jack with no upgrades to her biotics and no loyalty for the biotic shield.  I took two loyal team mates and one will be pulled away by the swarm every time.  It seems random which one but if you really want to kill someone off that is a good way. Also if you send a non loyal team mate to escort the crew back to the ship the non loyal team mate will usually die but the crew will make it back okay.

Fail loyalty?  I know you can fail Thane's but who elses?  Zaeed was still loyal even though what's his face got away which was weird.  You can block Garrus' shot but convince him to not kill the dude and he's still loyal - at least for me.  Who's can fail utterly?

[bbfan13]

I'll have to admit that I was lucky to get everyone through on my first play. I avoided everything about this game like the plague before playing it because I love surprises. I assumed I was sending someone to their death in the vents so I picked Legion because that was the tech specialist I was willing to lose. I lost Jack's loyalty so I was worried about making her part of the team. I wanted Miranda and Tali with me because I had no idea what was coming but that left all my tanks back on the line. I sent Thane back with the crew because I thought he made the most sense as someone who is good at stealth. I picked Garrus because I wanted one of my old crew in charge of the second team instead of these Cerberus psychos they set me up with. I was actually shocked that no one died on my suicide mission. I wondered if Bioware lost their nerve. As dumb as it sounds, it was only after joining this form that I found out someone could die.

[Booglarize]

Computron2000 wrote...

Fighting hundreds of collectors in a holding position (little movement allowed) is apparently less dangerous than 1 Reaper with assorted 3-4 collectors slowly flying in? 1 Reaper who you could run circles around? 1 Reaper who you're fighting with a known intergalactic killer? 1 Reaper who actually isn't even fully functional?

Seriously sometimes i don't understand some people's logic

This part makes sense in retrospect, but I think most people's gripe (with those that had Mordin randomly perish) is that the game didn't do a good job of indicating what was actually going on with those guys. And if you think about it, even hundreds of collectors shouldn't have been a problem for them, given that Harbinger was focusing on Shepard's team, and therefore wouldn't have been randomly possessing guys to blast them.

Heck, if I didn't have to deal with Harbinger, I could probably fight collectors single-handedly on insanity all day. 

[The Uncanny]

Computron2000 wrote...

Zaeed is a survior but everyone with him constantly dies. If that is a good leader, i'm sure the same people love bosses who put the blame on any ****ups with you and send you to your career deaths through self preservation.

Well... that presumes that you take all his stories as fact and I kind of figured that half of them were just tall tales. And anyway, even if they are true, if you learn from your mistakes that would make him a tactical genius, no?

[Zhijn]

Actually found it harder to get someone killed, lol.
Aint kidding!. I had no clue untill my third game, and i had to read a guide on how to get everyone killed.

I think it was alittle to obvious who could lead, who was a tech and a biotic. And the hole loyalty thing your constantly reminded about from TIM and everyone else, so no suprise there if they aint loyal they'll die.

So yeh, the so called "suicide" mission was really a cakewalk in term of getting everyone out alive.

Which have me wondering if any of the characters really stay dead in ME3.

[Urazz]

Nope, I didn't reload and didn't do anything like read any strat guides in the forums.

I had their loyalty, all necessary upgrades (and most of the more minor ones) for everyone's survival and I picked the right squadmates for each part.

Modifié par Urazz, 01 mars 2010 - 01:45 .

[archonambroseus]

Revenant_Mortalus wrote...

This has been addressed as well.  Can't find the link but there was an interview where it was stated that if your shepard dies then you simply won't be able to import that character to ME3 (makes sense).  Tal-N is right, you'd just start from scratch in ME3, or import a character that survived...

I don't think that's quite right, since they stated in an early interview that Shepard's death would be canonical in your playthrough if it happened, meaning (presumably) that importing that game into ME3 would put you in control of someone else in a canon where Shep's dead.  Seems like a huge amount of extra work though (2 more VAs for every line, different reactions from people, probably a widely diverging storyline…)

The Uncanny wrote...

Well... that presumes that you take
all his stories as fact and I kind of figured that half of them were
just tall tales. And anyway, even if they are true, if you learn from your mistakes that would make him a tactical genius, no? ../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png

Perhaps, but I get the feeling that Zaeed doesn't see losing his team as a "mistake" at all. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

Modifié par archonambroseus, 01 mars 2010 - 01:49 .

[Meta-Scourge]

I never cheat

[Computron2000]

Booglarize wrote...
Heck, if I didn't have to deal with Harbinger, I could probably fight collectors single-handedly on insanity all day. 

Another point there. Shepard is bloody tough

Which begs the question. Is it less dangerous to stay with someone who never needs healing through unity or staying with a big bunch who consistently needs it? I know if i was Mordin, i would be volunteering to go with Shepard

[Cypher0020]

nope got squad/crew out on my first try

[superimposed]

jwilliamson77 wrote...

I just used common sense. Lost no one on my first try.

^This^


Tali as specialist, Jack as Biotic, Jacob as leader both times.
Took Tali and Mordin with me to the final boss.

[JulianusApostate]

Legion always dies from that rocket to the face, but no one else. Which is weird since I had everyone's loyalty completely and Miranda said Samara was an 'excellent choice' for the first fire team's leader. Or does she say that about everyone?

[chelseaisthepan]

the only reason I 'cheated' was because Mordin died for no reason.

[Booglarize]

Computron2000 wrote...

Booglarize wrote...
Heck, if I didn't have to deal with Harbinger, I could probably fight collectors single-handedly on insanity all day. 

Another point there. Shepard is bloody tough

Which begs the question. Is it less dangerous to stay with someone who never needs healing through unity or staying with a big bunch who consistently needs it? I know if i was Mordin, i would be volunteering to go with Shepard

Hah, now that's true. Come to think of it, there really should be an option to loan some of your medi-gel packs to the fire teams/ hold the line people. Would've really saved a lot of frustration and heartbreak. 

[R-F]

I save an enormous amount of times. I did Jack's loyalty mission about 12 times because i didn't have enough paragon points to keep her loyal. My first time I looked up a few different ways to save everyone and chose my people based on that, mostly because I wanted to maximize my achievements on the first time through. This time the only person i am going to lose is Zaeed, as I took the paragon option in his damn quest and couldn't convince him that he is a stubborn jackass.

I am looking forward to him dying through

my set up was Garrus as leader both times, Tali as the specialist, Jack as the biotic, Grunt to lead the survivors, and Mordin and Thane as my wingmen versus the reaper i believe.

Modifié par R-F, 01 mars 2010 - 02:11 .

[pefrase]

I avoided spoilers before I finished my first play-through, so no "cheating". But for the sake of making a better story, I was actually trying to avoid having everyone survive, so I didn't do Samara or Thane's loyalty missions. In addition, Zaeed was non-loyal because I screwed up his loyalty mission, and Miranda was non-loyal because I couldn't defuse the argument with Jack.



My endgame ended up being pretty dramatic and emotionally satisfying, because nothing worked out quite the way I intended. I sent Legion into the vents and had Miranda lead the first team even though she was non-loyal, because I was completely fine with her dying. But of course, that choice resulted in Miranda surviving and Legion dying, which was quite upsetting. Then I ended up having to use Samara for the biotic bubble, because I wanted Jack for my squad (I was still playing on Veteran at that point, and her shockwave thrashes at that level). Once again, I was OK with Samara dying, but it was Jack who ended up getting killed instead. Finally, Thane also died because I made him head of the distraction team. That was mostly because I didn't pay close enough attention to the job description for that task, but it ended up being pretty ironic because the only time I "cheated" on my first playthough was when I reloaded Thane's loyalty mission after failing it the first time, and it all ended up being for nothing.



All in all, I found the suicide mission to be a real triumph of emotionally affecting game design. And unlike some people here, I really like the fact that who dies is a bit unpredictable and illogical because, well, war is like that. And it makes the deaths hit harder.