204 réponses à ce sujet

[Revenant_Mortalus]

archonambroseus wrote...


I don't think that's quite right, since they stated in an early interview that Shepard's death would be canonical in your playthrough if it happened, meaning (presumably) that importing that game into ME3 would put you in control of someone else in a canon where Shep's dead.  Seems like a huge amount of extra work though (2 more VAs for every line, different reactions from people, probably a widely diverging storyline…)

Nah, the canon would just be that for that character, Shepard is dead and the story ends there.  Here is the link to the source...

[Pinkflamingo22]

I too saved everyone my first try. I did not "cheat", I did not even go on the forums, look for tips or anything of the sort. It wasn't difficult to make everyone live.



Everyone Loyal

Garrus lead team

Tali in vents

Zaeed to bring crew to Normandy

Samara for shield

Miranda and Thane were in my squad till the final boss battle when I brought Jacob and Tali



Those choices just seemed logical for numerous reasons

[archonambroseus]

Revenant_Mortalus wrote...

archonambroseus wrote...


I don't think that's quite right, since they stated in an early interview that Shepard's death would be canonical in your playthrough if it happened, meaning (presumably) that importing that game into ME3 would put you in control of someone else in a canon where Shep's dead.  Seems like a huge amount of extra work though (2 more VAs for every line, different reactions from people, probably a widely diverging storyline…)

Nah, the canon would just be that for that character, Shepard is dead and the story ends there.  Here is the link to the source...

Hmm, thanks for bringing that up!  While I can see why they don't want to go through all the work to let you play through as another character, it seems really weird that their rationalle is "dying should have serious consequences."  Serious like hitting "new character?" and going on our merry way?   Seems like the only way to make it have a serious effect is to make it… have an effect.  Oh well can't begrudge them not wanting to put release off for another couple years just for that though.


Anyways back on topic, I agree that it would be nice if the suicide mission was more, um, suicidey.  I can see some people getting angry at seemingly random character deaths (since some people get angry at the blatantly obvious ones), but it was just so damn easy to get everyone out of there that it felt more like a stroll in the park that a suicide mission that's so tough 95% of the game was nothing but making sure you were ready for it.  Perhaps it could have been harder to keep everyone's loyalty, or more failable loyalty missions, or more and less obvious choices in the suicide mission, maybe even an interrupt to push someone out of the way of a falling rock (despite the bad rap "press X not to die" has).

I know it's a bit nit-picky of me, but damn it would be nice if that mission were actually as tough as it was made out to be.  Would really have added an emotional kick to it.

[Omega_Novae]

Yep. I just made logical decisions about who does what, and everyone came out alive for my first playthrough. No guides. I had Legion do the vents (geth = l33t hacker), Garrus lead the fire team both times (lead a squad on Omega), and Samara make the barrier (asari make the best biotics). I sent Zaeed with the crew, since I didn't need him.

[Computron2000]

archonambroseus wrote...
Serious like hitting "new character?" and going on our merry way?   Seems like the only way to make it have a serious effect is to make it… have an effect. 

Actually it is pretty serious. Its serious in the sense that you get forced choices on you and you never experience all the bells and whistles the game has.

I restarted ME2 as a new character after finishing games with ME1 imports and the difference is pretty noticable. No conrad, no helena, no Wrex, etc. The biggest was there was no Council + Udina's the counciler. You never get to hear the finger quoting turian and tell them to shove it up their ass.

[Amathal]

me for the most part with with my infiltrator on first play through yah i used garrus becuase of the whole archangel thing for both second sqaud leads jack for the biotic part legion for the tech and I used tali for the escort back... can't remeber but i think everyone survived but thats only becuase i messed up and didn't head straight there. no one died that was good. for final battle i brought grunt and miranda(veteran). on my soldier which i just beat on hardcore (doing insanity next) again garrus for both second sqaud leader, then legion for tech, jack for biotic sheild and to the final the battle brought jack and thane... the perfect combo of there biotics was beautiful(with my direction of course) then while i was busy with the reaper the took care of the collectors jack died a couple of times but lived in the cut scene so that was all good.

[archonambroseus]

Computron2000 wrote...

archonambroseus wrote...
Serious like hitting "new character?" and going on our merry way?   Seems like the only way to make it have a serious effect is to make it… have an effect. 

Actually it is pretty serious. Its serious in the sense that you get forced choices on you and you never experience all the bells and whistles the game has.

I restarted ME2 as a new character after finishing games with ME1 imports and the difference is pretty noticable. No conrad, no helena, no Wrex, etc. The biggest was there was no Council + Udina's the counciler. You never get to hear the finger quoting turian and tell them to shove it up their ass.

Hm, I had thought that you essentially created your past playthrough on the shuttle to see TIM for the first time if you made a new character.  Having done every ME 2 playthrough with an imported character I never realized that so many decisions are made for you.  Also I suppose that a new Shepard may not have had many squadmates survive the suicide mission.

Anyways way off topic, but again thanks for the link!

[noobzor99]

I just got lucky.  The only mission I restarted was Samara's loyalty mission, as I kept choosing the wrong options and Morinth kept walking out on me 

[Revenant_Mortalus]

archonambroseus wrote...

Hmm, thanks for bringing that up!  While I can see why they don't want to go through all the work to let you play through as another character, it seems really weird that their rationalle is "dying should have serious consequences."  Serious like hitting "new character?" and going on our merry way?   Seems like the only way to make it have a serious effect is to make it… have an effect.  Oh well can't begrudge them not wanting to put release off for another couple years just for that though.


Anyways back on topic, I agree that it would be nice if the suicide mission was more, um, suicidey.  I can see some people getting angry at seemingly random character deaths (since some people get angry at the blatantly obvious ones), but it was just so damn easy to get everyone out of there that it felt more like a stroll in the park that a suicide mission that's so tough 95% of the game was nothing but making sure you were ready for it.  Perhaps it could have been harder to keep everyone's loyalty, or more failable loyalty missions, or more and less obvious choices in the suicide mission, maybe even an interrupt to push someone out of the way of a falling rock (despite the bad rap "press X not to die" has).

I know it's a bit nit-picky of me, but damn it would be nice if that mission were actually as tough as it was made out to be.  Would really have added an emotional kick to it.

Glad to help.  I'm guessing they felt that after ploughing through 2 games with our beloved Shepards, not being able to carry over to ME3 would be enough of a consequence,  I thought there was gonna be a new protagonist for ME3 if our Shepard died, back when they first announced this, but as Hudson says, this trilogy is Shepard's story so I can see where they're coming from.

I like your idea about the quicktime events for saving people, but it'd have to be a pretty narrow window of opportunity to make it worth while.  Here's a thought;  using your falling rock example.  Hit X or whatever to push the character out of the way of the rock.  Now if you're really quick with it, the character is pushed out of the way and saved.  Mistime it and another squaddie tries to be the hero, only it goes wrong and THEY get hit by the rock instead.  Miss it completely and the character in question gets splatted...

[The Happy One]

I laughed audibly when Tali got blasted in the face on my second go through. Sucked for her!

[We Tigers]

Oh god, not quicktime events. Anything but! I'd like more challenges and roadblocks on any future suicide mission-type encounters (more choices for leaders, more choice in setting up the fighting formation for holding the line, etc.) but not QTEs.

[Beerfish]

I just lost Legion the 1st time through because I sided with Tali in their little dispute and thus lost his loyalty it seems.

[archonambroseus]

Mmm… I like. Unintended consequences always hit harder than random events. Giving the player agency in them, even in a way that's unintentional and unforeseeable, really adds to the punch.

[Girl in the Box]

Well I fully admit if Garrus had died, I would have reloaded so fast the room would have spun....

But I managed to get everyone out alive and in one piece my first try, including all crew (sorry Lilith!) due to good decisions and a little luck.

Everyone was loyal, all ship upgrades, and most weapon/tech/biotic upgrades.

Legion in the vents.

Garrus squad leader both times. 

I rolled with Thane and Miranda.

Jack held the biotic barrier.

Mordin escort crew back to ship.

Took Garrus and Tali with me to the end fight.

Oh, and I didn't have Zeeke or whatever the DL dude's name is. lol

[Symbolz]

I never had to reload anything myself.  Everything was rather self explanatory and there were hints dropped everywhere.  Even in the ME2 cinematic trailer there was a hint to gain loyality of your crew, "An unlikely band of brothers.  Tough, but are they loyal?  If Shepard can't gain their trust, they're all as good as dead."

In-game, when Jacob is asked what he thinks of the state of the crew will respond that all distractions need to be removed to keep people focused on the mission.  A hint that you should gain loyalities.

When various crew members are asked about upgrades, they give their thoughts on what could be improved.  Not as obvious but they are subtle hints that these ship upgrades are needed.

During the suicide mission they almost tell you who you should take.  Most of it is just common sense anyways.

Modifié par Symbol117, 01 mars 2010 - 02:56 .

[Your Synthetic Superior]

Tal-N wrote...

Having finished the game tonight and looking through the forums it seems to me that many people managed to have all of their team survive the suicide mission. Which boggles my mind when I consider that there are so many ways to make mistakes. Now, I can understand some people are just lucky but never in a million years would I have figured that leaving behind 6 people to 'hold the line' while taking two of my tough guys to deal with the boss would result in someone getting killed. I mean come on now, I lost Mordin because I DIDN'T take him to face the boss? That just doesn't make much sense. If anything facing the boss was one of the more dangerous things which could happen since it was 3 of us on a team while those holding the line were a small army.

But in any event, I feel that I have to live with the consequences of my actions in order to really benefit from taking part in a story where my choices effect the story itself. Reloading just because I now know how to save Mordin doesn't sit right with me and frankly I was very fond of that character and losing him will stick in my memory as part of a wonderful game experience. As far as I'm concerned, it is right up there with when Aerith was killed in Final Fantasy 7 but rather than it being predestined, I know it was a choice I made which caused it.

So what about you? Did you reload to fix a 'mistake' you made? Or did you simply accept that choices sometimes come with consequences you don't like? How often did you use the magical 'load' button to pull a Quantum Leap on your game?

No one has ever died holding the line for me. I've had Mordin on the line and taken Grunt, Tali, Thane, Legion, Jack and Garrus, but nobody ever dies holding the line so far. Not even Mordin who every keeps saying dies. Once I swore I saw one of my squadmates drop dead in the background during the part where you radio communicate with one of your squad, but afterwards they were all still alive.

 I've heard that their dying depends on how long you take killing the final boss. I guess I beat him too fast, but it's so easy I don't see how anyone could take too long.

[Acero Azul]

 i got everyone on the first try all loyal and alive

[Inquisitor Recon]

On my first try Thane trying to shut the door, Jack died holding the line, and Zaeed died escorting the crew back.

[xedgorex]

I orchestrate doom, on my last 2 playthroughs i've killed Jack, Jacob and Tali and i'll keep doing it every time.

[Revenant_Mortalus]

I sent Jack as the leader of the 2nd fire team, simply because I really don't like her. I know there are a ton of Jack fans, and I'm not trying to start a flame war - I can see why people would be drawn to a character like that, she just really irritated me personally. Even if my buddy Garrus (my personal favourite squaddie, love the fact that in ME2 he's basically space-punisher) had died though, I wouldn't have reloaded. I knew going into the game that I wouldn't have my "canon" playthrough until we have all the DLC...

[Your Synthetic Superior]

xedgorex wrote...

I orchestrate doom, on my last 2 playthroughs i've killed Jack, Jacob and Tali and i'll keep doing it every time.

Tali dying is like shooting a baby at point blank range with a shotgun. Picture it. You enjoy the death of babies. You are a horrible person.

[Chamberboozer]

Vaenier wrote...

Having a character die because they are ignoring a characters history is a bad design. [using Tali, who led a suicide mission on halstrum place already, or Zaheed, a blue suns founder, or Mordin who is an STG operative, be the second squad leader.]

Tali led a team on Freedom's Progress. It was wiped out. She led a team on haestrom. it was either wiped out or had one survivor depending on your actions. She's not a good squad leader.

Zaeed is a mercenary - he has experience but your squadmates don't trust him. Also he tells you storied of when he led squads and they are generally about Zaeed being the only survivor.

Mordin has been working as a doctor for a long time. He's probably a decent leader but not the best choice.

Sounds like you're the one who's ignoring your squad's history.

Modifié par Chamberboozer, 01 mars 2010 - 03:19 .

[archonambroseus]

Chamberboozer wrote...

Mordin has been working as a doctor for a long time. He's probably a decent leader but not the best choice.

That, and even Mordin himself admits that as a Salarians he isn't really suited for anything non-small-scale.

[DarkNova50]

I lost Legion, Grunt, Thane, and Miranda on my first run. Along with the entire crew, save Chakwas. Needless to say, I didn't do any reading.



It's kind of fitting with the Colonist/Sole Survivor background. Death just seems to follow that poor bastard.