204 réponses à ce sujet

[eternalnightmare13]

I think Mordrin is a leader but not in the tatical sense. The majority of his story about STG is about researching the genophage etc. I didn't get the sense he did much combat excusively. Yeah, he's capable of fighting but not on the same level as say Garrus.

[eternalnightmare13]

Your Synthetic Superior wrote...

xedgorex wrote...

I orchestrate doom, on my last 2 playthroughs i've killed Jack, Jacob and Tali and i'll keep doing it every time.

Tali dying is like shooting a baby at point blank range with a shotgun. Picture it. You enjoy the death of babies. You are a horrible person.

It's just a game.

[Nozybidaj]

doh:  teach me not to read the first post.

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 01 mars 2010 - 03:52 .

[Cyberfrog81]

I saved everyone my first try, so no "cheating" required (not sure I would have reloaded anyway... didn't do it when mixing things up a bit on my second playthrough), but I had no idea how the "hold the line" part worked. After the fact it is easy to see how leaving strong soldier types behind might be a good idea, but at the time you're likely worrying more about your own survival and want your favourite combo with you.

A few people complain about the game being "dumbed down", but in this case it might not be dumb enough:

•  [Vents] "We need to send a tech expert!" - Yes, thank you, Miranda - if we trust your advice, we'll send Legion or Tali. It's not too much to ask of us that we read the character descriptions if we're in doubt.
• [Biotic bubble] "I could do it too. In theory, any biotic could" (something like that) - Umm, no Miranda, if we choose you, someone dies. So the game requires you to think for yourself a little more here. It is clear a biotic is required, and logically the stronger the biotic, the better. Samara kind of stands out, IMHO.
• [Hold the line] Unless you've read spoilers, you have no idea how this will end. If someone "squishy" died on your first playthrough because of previous choices made and/or because of who you brought with you to the boss fight, I really don't think you should be too hard on yourself. "I should leave the toughest, meanest soldier types behind" may seem obvious in retrospect, but again: When you don't know what you'll be facing, it makes sense to move forward with a squad you think can handle pretty much anything - even if that means taking e.g. Garrus and Grunt.

I tend not to think of this as broken game mechanics (not saying it is perfect, either). Even escorting the crew... one could ask: How are you supposed to know that it is a "bad" idea to send a soldier type to escort them? (If you're ruthless enough, you can refuse to escort them, but even my hardcore renegade characters couldn't get themselves to do that.) But then, it is supposed to feel like a bit of a dilemma - you're weakening the team, in the worst case ruining your chances of a successful mission/survival. It definitely adds an element of uncertainty, but that does not equal "broken".

Modifié par Cyberfrog81, 01 mars 2010 - 04:06 .

[FlyinElk212]

Honestly? No, I didn't cheat, and I still ended up saving everyone on my first runthrough (sans the Normandy crew. I made the critical mistake of waiting to do everyone's loyalty mission AFTER the crew was taken by the collectors).

Really, the choices for the suicide mission make sense if you listen to your teammate's suggestions and read their descriptions. Miranda clearly states that they need a "TECH SPECIALIST" for the toobz job, and you obviously wanted the strongest Biotic you had for the bubble part.

The parts I could see people screwing up were choosing the secondary leaders. I personally overthought it, thinking, "OMGZ if Miranda leads and I don't take Jack with me, then one of them is totally FUBAR! I'll choose a neutral candidate like Garrus."

Modifié par FlyinElk212, 01 mars 2010 - 03:50 .

[Chamberboozer]

When it comes to the choices we were faced with during the suicide mission, I liked how it played out. The only problem with it IMO is no matter how many people are killed getting to the reaper, it doesn't matter. You'll still destroy it and escape unless you're TRYING to fail.



It would have been MUCH better if there were more choices during the mission that could leave you weaker at the end. And you should have been able to fail entirely simply for making the wrong choices along the way. It's a suicide mission, yet it wasn't a challenge.



No one would be mad if they died for making the wrong choices during the mission, they would be happy to have seen an interesting result, and could reload a save from the beginning of the mission and redo it, and still have fun seeing yet another result.

[SoulfireX1]

Well I saved everyone on my first play through without reloading or any other cheating. I just made common sense command decisions. The right person for the job at hand, and it worked out.

[archonambroseus]

LostScout wrote...

arbitrary

lol

[ZennExile]

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

Your Synthetic Superior wrote...

xedgorex wrote...

I orchestrate doom, on my last 2 playthroughs i've killed Jack, Jacob and Tali and i'll keep doing it every time.

Tali dying is like shooting a baby at point blank range with a shotgun. Picture it. You enjoy the death of babies. You are a horrible person.

It's just a game.

Exploding babies is serious business though.

[Sharn01]

Saved all on the first try, I picked Tali as an escort and everyone survived the hold the line even with Grunt in the finale fight with me. I got lucky probably on picking the escort and the hold the line, but everything else is pretty self explanatory.

[archonambroseus]

LostScout wrote...

If Jack isn't loyal, she is a less powerful biotic who gets one of your team killed?  Arbitrary.  If you take Garrus and Grunt with you for the final fight an unloyal Jack will die holding the line?  Arbitrary.  She is much more likely to take cover, resulting in the death of someone else.  There are many possibilities like this.  And Garrus, the great leader who got his whole team killed because he got suckered into leaving his team alone, yet he is the second best leader to hold the line.  Arbitrary.

If Jack isn't loyal, there's an extra thousand things swimming around in that already jacked-up (pardon the pun), rapidly deteriorating brain of hers.  Not arbitrary.  If you take your best "bunker down and fight" warriors with you and leave all the squishies, the squishies will die (especially if they're not in full fighting capacity).  Not arbitrary.  I suppose with Jack being a bit sociopathic it makes more sense for her to get someone else killed, but that's a major nit-pick.  And Garrus, who with 12 people took on an ENTIRE FREAKING STATION of people who wanted him dead for 2.5 months and only started losing people when his team was infiltrated and betrayed after THREE ENTIRE MERC GROUPS ganged up on him, and still managed to escape and get back, and who wasn't handed a team but built one by inspiring others with his grasp of command, is the second best leader to hold the line.  Freaking common sense.

[insochris]

archonambroseus wrote...

LostScout wrote...

If Jack isn't loyal, she is a less powerful biotic who gets one of your team killed?  Arbitrary.  If you take Garrus and Grunt with you for the final fight an unloyal Jack will die holding the line?  Arbitrary.  She is much more likely to take cover, resulting in the death of someone else.  There are many possibilities like this.  And Garrus, the great leader who got his whole team killed because he got suckered into leaving his team alone, yet he is the second best leader to hold the line.  Arbitrary.

If Jack isn't loyal, there's an extra thousand things swimming around in that already jacked-up (pardon the pun), rapidly deteriorating brain of hers.  Not arbitrary.

exactly. in the post-mission report screens for loyalty missions, they will say that they are now focused on the mission if you complete it properly.

keyword: "focused".

[eternalnightmare13]

LostScout wrote...

archonambroseus wrote...

LostScout wrote...

arbitrary

lol

Arbitrary.  Arbitrary.    Arbitrary.

Ooooooh! Someone learned a new word today! Yay LostScout! Atta boy!

[MyChemicalBromance]

I lost Thane the first time, but figured it out on my own.

[Aanorith]

I had everyone loyal. Legion for vents, Garrus for fire team. Samara for barrier, Tali escorted the crew and brought Grunt and Jack to the final part. Noone died, saved Kelly and so on. Happy happy first time ending.

[Lowrie 87]

I lost Legion my first playthrough

[Lucy Glitter]

I survived because I used logic. That's all, really.

[Terraneaux]

I saved all my squaddies but lost the entire crew, I don't know why. I only did Legion's loyalty mission in between the IFF and the Omega IV relay, then I accidentally hit the wrong dialog choice when talking to Chakwas.

[Big I]

Mordin died at the hold the line segment on my first playthrough, I was very annoyed.

edited for language

Modifié par LookingGlass93, 01 mars 2010 - 06:45 .

[NICKjnp]

Vaenier wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Its not cheating, its fixing horrible design decisions made by BioWare. You are only cheating yourself if you let them die from faulty game development.

Mind shining some light upon these 'horrible design decisions' cheating scum?

Having a character die by doing the logical thing is a bad design. [Moridin holding the line instead of fighting a reaper in hand to hand combat...]
Having a character die because they are ignoring a characters history is a bad design. [using Tali, who led a suicide mission on halstrum place already, or Zaheed, a blue suns founder, or Mordin who is an STG operative, be the second squad leader.]
having a rock kill a squad member based on their loyalty is a bad design. how are loyal squad members better at surviving rocks?

Tali's entire team got killed... not a good "leader".
Zaeed says that he once tried to take a Turian cruiser and all his team except for himself got killed... not a good "leader".
Mordin was not an STG operative.  He was a Doctor who led a team of research scientists who worked with the STG and had some STG combat training... not a good "leader".

[Computron2000]

LostScout wrote...
If Jack isn't loyal, she is a less powerful biotic who gets one of your team killed?  Arbitrary. 

If Jack isn't loyal , she doesn't give a **** on the other team members thus she never does her final shockwave and someone dies. It's all in the cut scene if you actually bothered playing both

LostScout wrote...
If you take Garrus and Grunt with you for the final fight an unloyal Jack will die holding the line?  Arbitrary. 

Eh no if you had no Zaeed as in sent Zaeed away as escort or got him killed previously *THEN* took you 2 soldiers with you and Mordin was not around then yes she dies.

Wha if you sent a team of a violent convict, a policeman, an mafia hit man, a electrician, a honda asimo, a combat medic, an army strategy planner and a guerillia fighter, an experienced army sergent, a special ops sniper and a 7 foot SAS corporal into a war zone.

Then evacced  the sergent, the sniper and the SAS member after you knew the remaining members would be trapped in a civilian house, how would they fare? No casulties?

LostScout wrote...
the great leader who got his whole team killed because he got suckered into leaving his team alone, yet he is the second best leader to hold the line.  Arbitrary.

the great Shepard who got his whole crew captured because he got suckered into leaving his team alone, yet he is the best leader to fight a galactic threat?

Modifié par Computron2000, 01 mars 2010 - 07:25 .

[SandTrout]

Lost Mordin my first time through, but I reloaded my personal cannon character to keep him alive because that how I want my story to go.

Modifié par SandTrout, 01 mars 2010 - 07:25 .

[Your Synthetic Superior]

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

Your Synthetic Superior wrote...

xedgorex wrote...

I orchestrate doom, on my last 2 playthroughs i've killed Jack, Jacob and Tali and i'll keep doing it every time.

Tali dying is like shooting a baby at point blank range with a shotgun. Picture it. You enjoy the death of babies. You are a horrible person.

It's just a game.

It's just a forum...