537 réponses à ce sujet

[ModerateOsprey]

Grizzly46 wrote...

First some development psychology: One of the first things we learn in life is that we have a gender - that we are different/or alike to mum or dad. and it is fundamental to our self-identification. Later, we add other things to our self-image or identification (nationality, sexuality, class, etc), but our gender is fundamental.

That means that in a role-playing game where we can choose gender, we can choose to break out of these boundaries. An actor will in 99.99% of the time be limited to his/hers gender's role availability, but a role-player will not have that. We can be experimental and see how it would be to be the must fundamentally different from our own self, a different gender.

I guess I'm a little too old and a little too conservative to play anything but a straight male since that is what I am, but I can play games with female leads if there are no male options, like Tomb Raider. The immersion in the role is however greater in a male protagonist. That said, I don't mind people breaking out of the barriers for whatever reason they may have - its just that I can not do that.

Neatly put. I would say pretty much the same thing if I was playing the game as if I was 'inhabiting' the character. AngryFrozenWater and I further up were saying that view perspective has a bearing on this. In a 3rd person view, I am playing a character external to myself, whereas a first person perspective is more like its me. Tomb Raider is a good example of that, where it is Lara you are controlling and it is up to the player to keep her alive.

Modifié par ModerateOsprey, 28 mars 2010 - 02:53 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

ModerateOsprey wrote...

Grizzly46 wrote...

First some development psychology: One of the first things we learn in life is that we have a gender - that we are different/or alike to mum or dad. and it is fundamental to our self-identification. Later, we add other things to our self-image or identification (nationality, sexuality, class, etc), but our gender is fundamental.

That means that in a role-playing game where we can choose gender, we can choose to break out of these boundaries. An actor will in 99.99% of the time be limited to his/hers gender's role availability, but a role-player will not have that. We can be experimental and see how it would be to be the must fundamentally different from our own self, a different gender.

I guess I'm a little too old and a little too conservative to play anything but a straight male since that is what I am, but I can play games with female leads if there are no male options, like Tomb Raider. The immersion in the role is however greater in a male protagonist. That said, I don't mind people breaking out of the barriers for whatever reason they may have - its just that I can not do that.

Neatly put. I would say pretty much the same thing if I was playing the game as if I was 'inhabiting' the character. AngryFrozenWater and I further up were saying that view perspective has a bearing on this. In a 3rd person view, I am playing a character external to myself, whereas a first person perspective is more like its me. Tomb Raider is a good example of that, where it is Lara you are controlling and it is up to the player to keep her alive.

I think that gender is less import when controling that other character in third person view. It's very hard to make a character look exactly like you anyway. It's just not you. And maybe that's why we see so many people use the voice actor or actress as the determining factor for selecting the gender of the player character. Just a hunch, though.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 28 mars 2010 - 05:55 .

[ModerateOsprey]

Voice has a lot do with it, I think. This is especially true when taken in conjunction with the visual perspective. How they are both treated by a game is what governs how I roleplay that particular character be they male or female.

I think it is interesting if we compare the different treatment of voice and visual perspective in both ME and DA. Both ME and DA offer a third person visual perspective. However, the way that voice is treated is seemingly quite different on the surface - PC voice actors for ME vs. no voice for the PC in DA. In actual fact,the DA PC does have a voice, but the PC only speaks when being directed by the player in combat or exploration modes.

What I find really interesting is that the script chosen for the PC voice in DA seems to be as if the PC (and the rest of the DA party, for that matter) is replying to the player's instructions. In ME, you don't really know what the PC (Shepard) is going to say and so there is a discovery of dialogue that is closer to a dramatic film in nature.

As a result of this, my approach to these games are subtly different, but they both offer me a way to fully roleplay a male or female character, because of this total 3rd person perspective. I am patently not the character that I influence in both games - they even answer back in DA!

This, for me, totally negates any potential 'weirdness' I may feel in allowing my female Shepard to romance a male, for example. I don't feel weird following the tales of Elizabeth Bennett in Pride and Prejudice or Ripley in Alien, yet I still feel very involved with those characters.

ME and DAO just add an extra dimension. I can influence their personality as well as outcomes for Shepard and my DA PC.

It is possible that someone for the opposite gender to their PC may find selecting dialogue in romantic or sexual encounters difficult or weird or, indeed, boring, but that could be simply because the player has no real interest in romance in other media. This is not a problem for me as I have a real weakness for period drama and books, so like romance in my stories.

That said, my female Shepard looks great swinging that ass and looks superb when firing a gun. The same with my DA PC with sword in hand dealing out the pain. This is no different to me enjoying the sexy girls with guns and blades like Trinity in the Matrix or River (Summer Glau) in Firefly/Serenity.

Modifié par ModerateOsprey, 28 mars 2010 - 08:05 .

[Grizzly46]

ModerateOsprey wrote...

Grizzly46 wrote...

First some development psychology: One of the first things we learn in life is that we have a gender - that we are different/or alike to mum or dad. and it is fundamental to our self-identification. Later, we add other things to our self-image or identification (nationality, sexuality, class, etc), but our gender is fundamental.

That means that in a role-playing game where we can choose gender, we can choose to break out of these boundaries. An actor will in 99.99% of the time be limited to his/hers gender's role availability, but a role-player will not have that. We can be experimental and see how it would be to be the must fundamentally different from our own self, a different gender.

I guess I'm a little too old and a little too conservative to play anything but a straight male since that is what I am, but I can play games with female leads if there are no male options, like Tomb Raider. The immersion in the role is however greater in a male protagonist. That said, I don't mind people breaking out of the barriers for whatever reason they may have - its just that I can not do that.

Neatly put. I would say pretty much the same thing if I was playing the game as if I was 'inhabiting' the character. AngryFrozenWater and I further up were saying that view perspective has a bearing on this. In a 3rd person view, I am playing a character external to myself, whereas a first person perspective is more like its me. Tomb Raider is a good example of that, where it is Lara you are controlling and it is up to the player to keep her alive.

And it is in the view you loose the RPG perspective, I think. In 2D you control a character; in 3D you are a character. I guess that is why shooters are so popular, even if the lack much (if not even all) of the RPG elements - they simply provide the player with more immersion. One example of this being quite bizarre, but still doing it tremendously well is the Half-Life series: an excellent story told via a lot of action in first person view - but where you can't talk to people.

[Grizzly46]

ModerateOsprey wrote...

Voice has a lot do with it, I think. This is especially true when taken in conjunction with the visual perspective. How they are both treated by a game is what governs how I roleplay that particular character be they male or female.

I don't agree, but that's me. I would have played as a male Shepard no matter what voice actor he would have had - and I got into the game quite late so I had no idea of what to expect either.

[XavierHollywood]

i figured, if im going to be starring at the characters ass for 90% of the game, it might as well be a womans ass

[IccaRa]

XavierHollywood wrote...

i figured, if im going to be starring at the characters ass for 90% of the game, it might as well be a womans ass

All I hear when I see stuff like this is "I'm not gay!"

It's fine to have preference but I've always thought *that* line of reasoning was kind of... weak.

[ModerateOsprey]

Grizzly46 wrote...

ModerateOsprey wrote...

Grizzly46 wrote...

First some development psychology: One of the first things we learn in life is that we have a gender - that we are different/or alike to mum or dad. and it is fundamental to our self-identification. Later, we add other things to our self-image or identification (nationality, sexuality, class, etc), but our gender is fundamental.

That means that in a role-playing game where we can choose gender, we can choose to break out of these boundaries. An actor will in 99.99% of the time be limited to his/hers gender's role availability, but a role-player will not have that. We can be experimental and see how it would be to be the must fundamentally different from our own self, a different gender.

I guess I'm a little too old and a little too conservative to play anything but a straight male since that is what I am, but I can play games with female leads if there are no male options, like Tomb Raider. The immersion in the role is however greater in a male protagonist. That said, I don't mind people breaking out of the barriers for whatever reason they may have - its just that I can not do that.

Neatly put. I would say pretty much the same thing if I was playing the game as if I was 'inhabiting' the character. AngryFrozenWater and I further up were saying that view perspective has a bearing on this. In a 3rd person view, I am playing a character external to myself, whereas a first person perspective is more like its me. Tomb Raider is a good example of that, where it is Lara you are controlling and it is up to the player to keep her alive.

And it is in the view you loose the RPG perspective, I think. In 2D you control a character; in 3D you are a character. I guess that is why shooters are so popular, even if the lack much (if not even all) of the RPG elements - they simply provide the player with more immersion. One example of this being quite bizarre, but still doing it tremendously well is the Half-Life series: an excellent story told via a lot of action in first person view - but where you can't talk to people.

I agree with you here. One of my favourite games is Flashpoint. I really do feel immersed in that. I am that soldier. Interestingly, in relation to the thread topic, I would prefer to have a male voice if I had a choice and would prefer to be a male within that game world. The reason here is that the games is designed to be as close to the actual players perspective as possible.

[Grizzly46]

@ModerateOsprey: Just to clear up the confusion: don't youm mean female? Because in Operation Flashpoint you only play male characters (great game btw - when I get a better comp I'm going to test the new one!)

[ModerateOsprey]

Grizzly46 wrote...

@ModerateOsprey: Just to clear up the confusion: don't youm mean female? Because in Operation Flashpoint you only play male characters (great game btw - when I get a better comp I'm going to test the new one!)

Hehe.  I'm a bloke and wanna play a bloke in Flashpoint

[ModerateOsprey]

I did create a female in Rainbow 6 Vegas. That 3rd person perspective again!

[AngryFrozenWater]

ModerateOsprey wrote...

Voice has a lot do with it, I think. This is especially true when taken in conjunction with the visual perspective. How they are both treated by a game is what governs how I roleplay that particular character be they male or female.

I think it is interesting if we compare the different treatment of voice and visual perspective in both ME and DA. Both ME and DA offer a third person visual perspective. However, the way that voice is treated is seemingly quite different on the surface - PC voice actors for ME vs. no voice for the PC in DA. In actual fact,the DA PC does have a voice, but the PC only speaks when being directed by the player in combat or exploration modes.

What I find really interesting is that the script chosen for the PC voice in DA seems to be as if the PC (and the rest of the DA party, for that matter) is replying to the player's instructions. In ME, you don't really know what the PC (Shepard) is going to say and so there is a discovery of dialogue that is closer to a dramatic film in nature.

As a result of this, my approach to these games are subtly different, but they both offer me a way to fully roleplay a male or female character, because of this total 3rd person perspective. I am patently not the character that I influence in both games - they even answer back in DA!

This, for me, totally negates any potential 'weirdness' I may feel in allowing my female Shepard to romance a male, for example. I don't feel weird following the tales of Elizabeth Bennett in Pride and Prejudice or Ripley in Alien, yet I still feel very involved with those characters.

ME and DAO just add an extra dimension. I can influence their personality as well as outcomes for Shepard and my DA PC.

It is possible that someone for the opposite gender to their PC may find selecting dialogue in romantic or sexual encounters difficult or weird or, indeed, boring, but that could be simply because the player has no real interest in romance in other media. This is not a problem for me as I have a real weakness for period drama and books, so like romance in my stories.

That said, my female Shepard looks great swinging that ass and looks superb when firing a gun. The same with my DA PC with sword in hand dealing out the pain. This is no different to me enjoying the sexy girls with guns and blades like Trinity in the Matrix or River (Summer Glau) in Firefly/Serenity.

Those are all excellent points. It describes how I feel about playing ME/DA:O.

There is a practical reason why you cannot select the full name of the PCs in both ME and DA:O. It would be hard for the other characters to pronounce the name without a voice synthesizer. But it also makes me feel that it is someone else.

Another extreme in terms of customization is the Witcher. It's a predefined character. There's not much to chose from (without modding). That makes it very clear that you control in fact somebody else.

As I mentioned earlier, Oblivion has an interesting feature. It allows you to zoom from first person to third person and back by using the scroll wheel. Such a feature would be great in DA:O to make you feel more connected to the character. Especially if you were able to switch off the Warden's voice.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 28 mars 2010 - 09:34 .

[The Almighty Ali]

I always start with a Male character and spend alot of time to make them look like me, on my second playthrough I go for the Female that I try to give an apperance I find attractive.

I don't mind playing as a Female, but to be honest I do feel more at home with a Male character.

[Elvis_Mazur]

My main character is a male Shepard but i have one female too.



But i have to admit that the voice of the female Shepard is inferior in Mass Effect 1, but they improved it in Mass Effect 2.

[ModerateOsprey]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

ModerateOsprey wrote...

Voice has a lot do with it, I think. This is especially true when taken in conjunction with the visual perspective. How they are both treated by a game is what governs how I roleplay that particular character be they male or female.

I think it is interesting if we compare the different treatment of voice and visual perspective in both ME and DA. Both ME and DA offer a third person visual perspective. However, the way that voice is treated is seemingly quite different on the surface - PC voice actors for ME vs. no voice for the PC in DA. In actual fact,the DA PC does have a voice, but the PC only speaks when being directed by the player in combat or exploration modes.

What I find really interesting is that the script chosen for the PC voice in DA seems to be as if the PC (and the rest of the DA party, for that matter) is replying to the player's instructions. In ME, you don't really know what the PC (Shepard) is going to say and so there is a discovery of dialogue that is closer to a dramatic film in nature.

As a result of this, my approach to these games are subtly different, but they both offer me a way to fully roleplay a male or female character, because of this total 3rd person perspective. I am patently not the character that I influence in both games - they even answer back in DA!

This, for me, totally negates any potential 'weirdness' I may feel in allowing my female Shepard to romance a male, for example. I don't feel weird following the tales of Elizabeth Bennett in Pride and Prejudice or Ripley in Alien, yet I still feel very involved with those characters.

ME and DAO just add an extra dimension. I can influence their personality as well as outcomes for Shepard and my DA PC.

It is possible that someone for the opposite gender to their PC may find selecting dialogue in romantic or sexual encounters difficult or weird or, indeed, boring, but that could be simply because the player has no real interest in romance in other media. This is not a problem for me as I have a real weakness for period drama and books, so like romance in my stories.

That said, my female Shepard looks great swinging that ass and looks superb when firing a gun. The same with my DA PC with sword in hand dealing out the pain. This is no different to me enjoying the sexy girls with guns and blades like Trinity in the Matrix or River (Summer Glau) in Firefly/Serenity.

Those are all excellent points. It describes how I feel about playing ME/DA:O.

There is a practical reason why you cannot select the full name of the PCs in both ME and DA:O. It would be hard for the other characters to pronounce the name without a voice synthesizer. But it also makes me feel that it is someone else.

Another extreme in terms of customization is the Witcher. It's a predefined character. There's not much to chose from (without modding). That makes it very clear that you control in fact somebody else.

As I mentioned earlier, Oblivion has an interesting feature. It allows you to zoom from first person to third person and back by using the scroll wheel. Such a feature would be great in DA:O to make you feel more connected to the character. Especially if you were able to switch off the Warden's voice.

I have ordered The Witcher, as I mentioned.  Am really looking forward to playing it. I have also contemplated getting the books...another discussion in Off Topic perhaps?

I have a friend that will lend me Oblivion, but for XBox. I will take him on it, purely for academic reasons and to sate my curiosity as it costs me nowt. Your reminder has actually piqued my curiosity even more, as I am now really interested in seeing the dual perspective in action and how the rest of the game world fits with it. If it is like what my imagination tells me it will be like, it would alter the DAO experience quite considerably...staying on topic...the implications for whether you play an opposite gender would offer all sorts of choices and a whole new range of implications! O f course, this could not be added to ME.

Voice synth - ugh. The tech just isn't good enough yet, so completely get why BW did what they did. I am fine with roleplaying from the provided perspective - it works.

[KainrycKarr]

IccaRa wrote...

XavierHollywood wrote...

i figured, if im going to be starring at the characters ass for 90% of the game, it might as well be a womans ass

All I hear when I see stuff like this is "I'm not gay!"

It's fine to have preference but I've always thought *that* line of reasoning was kind of... weak.

It is weak, and a poor excuse to not play a female character. You'd have to be rather insecure about yourself for that to be a truly valid reason. I play a male character mostly because I tend to roleplay as...well me.

I play maleshep about 75% of the time, femshep 25% of the time. I am glad there is a choice, and I hope there will continue to be both a male, and a female shep, in ME3 and beyond.

[AngryFrozenWater]

ModerateOsprey wrote...

Voice synth - ugh. The tech just isn't good enough yet, so completely get why BW did what they did. I am fine with roleplaying from the provided perspective - it works.

Hehe. Don't get me wrong. I am not suggesting that they should include voice synth.

[ModerateOsprey]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

ModerateOsprey wrote...

Voice synth - ugh. The tech just isn't good enough yet, so completely get why BW did what they did. I am fine with roleplaying from the provided perspective - it works.

Hehe. Don't get me wrong. I am not suggesting that they should include voice synth.

Aye, got that :happy:

[XavierHollywood]

IccaRa wrote...

XavierHollywood wrote...

i figured, if im going to be starring at the characters ass for 90% of the game, it might as well be a womans ass

All I hear when I see stuff like this is "I'm not gay!"

It's fine to have preference but I've always thought *that* line of reasoning was kind of... weak.

haha, it was a joke bro.

No in all seriousness, when i first started ME1, it didnt occur to me to pick the guy.  Just like with any game i have the option, Ive always gone the route of the female.

And i can honestly trace it all the way back to my early childhood.  Playing Final Fight 3 for SNES.  Could never beat that game despite always picking the macho tough looking guys as my main character.  But then, i finally caved and decided to be this "wimpy girl" and lo and behold, i kicked the **** out of every gangbanger in the game with ease and finally beat it.  Ever since then, Ive just had this preferance for female leads lol.  True story.

And while it isnt true with Mass Effect, female leads often get a speed boost (over the guys strength boost) that I always prefered.

oh and also, Jennifer Hale pwns Mark Meer

[Virodhi]

I've played both in order to get all aspects of the story (completionists of the world unite!), but ultimately Shepard will always be female in my mind. As has been mentioned all over this thread: Jennifer Hale's voice work is just top notch, and I cannot seem to warm to male Shepard's voice at all. I'm sure Mark Meer is a very talented man, but it's like he's trying so hard to keep his voice neutral (because a recognisably Canadian protagonist would be baaaad, apparently) that it kills his ability to emote. Which is a shame, because when you listen to interviews, it turns out his voice is very pleasant when he's not trying so hard.

But really, having your performance compared to Jennifer Hale is just unfair because she *will* blow you out of the water. Don't feel bad, Mr Meer. She did it to the guy who voiced male Jaden in Jedi Academy as well.

Also, it's deeply satisfying to be center stage for a female protagonist being absurdly awesome. The story just *works*.

Modifié par Virodhi, 29 mars 2010 - 10:32 .

[Weiser_Cain]

I usually play both female and male character, leaning more female. But something about ME makes playing female less than satisfying. Maybe it's that I don't like the romance choices. That said I have four female Shepards right now.

[We Are Harbinger]

i have plyed bth ad i leik nuber male i have mke seckz with femal LOLAOWOLAOWLWOAWLWW!!!

[AngryFrozenWater]

Errr.

[Dreadstruck]

Everyone says there is a lot of emotion in the female shep performance. All I hear is devoicing the last 2-3 syllables and very unreal intonation (no curves characteristic for English). I think Meer did a better job being neutral, although it does sometimes come through a bit dull (while Hale is just forced). So Mark, if you are reading this: well done.

Also, nothing breaks the immersion faster, than a male NPC hitting on you.

Yep I am a guy, I have 2 male and 2 female characters but still....>_<

Modifié par Avalla'ch, 29 mars 2010 - 12:29 .

[LiquidGrape]

I reiterate my flawless argument.

Two words.

Jennifer Hale.

That is all.