14 réponses à ce sujet

[crimzontearz]

not long ago I read a piece on GI written by a developer (I cannot recall the company but it's in the Feb issue) about communication between software houses/devs and the consumers/fans. In this piece the developer says that there are fundamentally 3 problems

1: Disclosure: the devs can't obviously reveal too much about a game...marketing and branding tho  also meddle with this for purely monetary issues most of the time and tell developers what can and cannot be said mostly before the release of a game to avoid sales repercussiuons.

2: Over reaction: Developers fear the taking out of context of what they say (the author of the piece makes a practical example as well) above all from the specialized media so they try not to communicate too much and if they do the communication goes through a number of filters. I mean we have seen it with ME2 as well.....remember the bestbuy chat and the headlines on IGN/TXBOX soon following?

3: Lack of Articulation: Fans usually do not express themselves well..."best thing EVAR" and "IT SUCKS" are usually the extent of their literary abilities so devs can't really gather concrete feedback on what the fans want/like/perceive as a problem (the author says nowadays tho the trend is  reversing as fans become more and more articulate).


now....take some of the worst complaints about the game so far

-handling of the ME1 LIs in ME2 (yes we all know about this...Bioware's attitude toward the DAO LI's also suggests this trend  will be getting WORSE)
-Renegade/Paragon  benchmarks issues (SOOOOO many threads about it)
-event triggers and recruitment pacing (seriously? the most AWESOME character  HAS to be recruited after we do everything else  or else our entire crew DIES??? even tho ALL his other missions' dialogue was recorded already?? WTH???)
-the evidence of material cut from the game to be then unlocked by DLC -coughkasumicough- (not a major one I know but it always irked me:innocent:)
)
it is obvious the awareness to the problems/complaints are there and by now everyone knows about it including every single specialized media on the net and off so any possible damage is DONE already.....it is also obvious that the Bioware fans ( a lot of them) are anything but not articulate and the gazillions of Liara posts in the love threads (those that complain about the way she was handled of course) are proof....I mean have you seen some of them? but it's not only in the Liara threads.....pretty much every major established problem has been assessed rationally and with long, detailed and well exposed  posts (yes there are the occasional nitwit "OMH TEH SUXXORZZZZ" posts but they are the exceptions not to rule)


so why exactly is it that there is pretty much complete silence from the developers at this point??? I mean a simple explanation of what is going on would work....

ok rant over.......
 

[Niddy']

Sup' I like to talk about Jack. Do you want to talk about Jack?

[Saberwolf116]

Maybe because everything they say is scrutinized and analyzed over and over by fans, so they can't say anything that isn't absolutely concrete.

If a member of BioWare staff were to say that they were a "fan of Tali", everyone would automatically assume she would be in ME3.

It's better to keep us in the dark then to be accused of being liars.

Modifié par Saberwolf116, 01 mars 2010 - 02:18 .

[Hk47sPappy]

Yeah Jack is fun

[Saberwolf116]

Niddy' wrote...

Sup' I like to talk about Jack. Do you want to talk about Jack?

Spam much?

[Daurf815]

cool story bro

[crimzontearz]

Saberwolf116 wrote...

Maybe because everything they say is scrutinized and analyzed over and over by fans, so they can't say anything that isn't absolutely concrete.

If a member of BioWare staff were to say that they were a "fan of Tali", everyone would automatically assume she would be in ME3.

It's better to keep us in the dark then to be accused of being liars.

correct but this is not a subjective issue

this is a very objective one like "how do the benchmarks really work?"

of course some are not so subjective like "what is the deal with "UnLiara" on Ilium" since that would involve a "well we wanted to really ****** you off about her so you would feel better about cheating" kind of answer


but still all the possible damage is already done at this point....why not just give a straight answer? I mean it cannot be worse than the "11 saves only" christmas faux pas done last year right???

[Pauravi]

To your issues:



1) Cut material (i.e. Kasumi): It is equally plausible that it was not cut specifically so they could use it as DLC later, but more because it was unfinished at release date and they wanted to polish it more. In any case, I really don't feel the need for feedback from the Devs about this.



2) Recruitment (Legion): To me it seems clear that this was a concession for the consoles. They would not have even included all the extra dialogue in the game if the decision to change the format didn't come very late in the process. I see no reason to complain about this, it was simply a logistics issue.



3) Paragon/Renegade benchmarks? I haven't personally had any trouble making any checks. I know some people have, and Devs have in fact posted about it. I never saw the big deal, personally.



4) The handling of ME1 LI's in ME2 is something that I know a lot of people are upset about, but I'm fine with it. I even romanced Liara, and I like her character, but this is the way Bioware planned it and I can see where they could go with it. I don't think for a moment that they're going to abandon the ME1 romances, they're just making the romance plot more complicated, and more emotionally trying. Sometimes people DO feel abandoned when they have conflicts with their lovers. Relationships aren't all puppies and rainbows. They toss you a very small bone -- a furtive kiss, or a little message -- to let you know that it isn't all gone. But you're in a troubled relationship, and you have to deal with it. I have absolutely no problem with this direction, and I hope Bioware doesn't answer to it. They're writing the story, and you have to go along for the ride.

[Krogan Face]

"If there are three humans in a room, there will be six opinions"  Samara

[Akrylik]

crimzontearz wrote...
so why exactly is it that there is pretty much complete silence from the developers at this point??? I mean a simple explanation of what is going on would work....
 

well it hasn't even been a month since ME2's release i assume it's only natural to sit and silently observe feedback and criticism which they can have influence the next installment early in the works, think of it statistically, a poll would be more accurate if it had 1000 participants rather than 100, so more consistent and pressing demands over time  will be of higher priority.

[Singu]

I think most accomplished gamestudios listen to their fans. Direct communication however would be an unfortunate venture however since everything you say can and will be twisted into something that it wasn't meant to be.



Q&A sessions might be the answer though, and surprisingly very few gamestudios have Q&A before, during or after a gamelaunch. Blizzard being one of the few ones that I can think about at the top of my head. Some gamestudios have zero communication at all - like Valve. I'm honestly not sure if either of them benefits or suffers from taking either stance towards the fanbase. But I don't think that it wouldt hurt to at least have some channel of periodic communication between developers and fans like Blizzard has in it's Blizzard Insider feature. AFAIK Bioware has no tradition for such communication towards the fans except Stanley Woo's marathon feedback in the sencorship thread.

[The Happy One]

I would rather BW do away with Love Plots than to continue hearing players whine about them. There are so many valid complaints about any game that the LI nonsense is a non issue.

[crimzontearz]

Pauravi wrote...

To your issues:

1) Cut material (i.e. Kasumi): It is equally plausible that it was not cut specifically so they could use it as DLC later, but more because it was unfinished at release date and they wanted to polish it more. In any case, I really don't feel the need for feedback from the Devs about this.

2) Recruitment (Legion): To me it seems clear that this was a concession for the consoles. They would not have even included all the extra dialogue in the game if the decision to change the format didn't come very late in the process. I see no reason to complain about this, it was simply a logistics issue.

3) Paragon/Renegade benchmarks? I haven't personally had any trouble making any checks. I know some people have, and Devs have in fact posted about it. I never saw the big deal, personally.

4) The handling of ME1 LI's in ME2 is something that I know a lot of people are upset about, but I'm fine with it. I even romanced Liara, and I like her character, but this is the way Bioware planned it and I can see where they could go with it. I don't think for a moment that they're going to abandon the ME1 romances, they're just making the romance plot more complicated, and more emotionally trying. Sometimes people DO feel abandoned when they have conflicts with their lovers. Relationships aren't all puppies and rainbows. They toss you a very small bone -- a furtive kiss, or a little message -- to let you know that it isn't all gone. But you're in a troubled relationship, and you have to deal with it. I have absolutely no problem with this direction, and I hope Bioware doesn't answer to it. They're writing the story, and you have to go along for the ride.

ok I had made a loooong post about this but my computer bugged out on me so I'll just write the jist of it

1: you maybe do not want feed back about this.....others do seeing this as the beginning of a SFIV slippery slope, personally I am not rabid about this but a little explanation would be nice

2: what in hell are you talking about "concession to the consoles" and "change of format"? are you talking about the 2 discs-space related  issue?  How does that impact this matter at ALL???

3: a lot of people are experiencing the issue.....in some cases it is pretty upsetting, in this case it is a simple matter of explaining how the benchmarks really work and/or admitting there is a glitch and fixing it.....as I said for those who are having the problem the issue is rather big

4: I may agree with this simply because of the change in writers between the 2 games...yet...the overall riot about this particular issue warrants at least some sort of explanation

[Beerfish]

I assume they are busy on ME3 and DLC. I'm sure they do take notice of things the fans say.

[crimzontearz]

Beerfish wrote...

I assume they are busy on ME3 and DLC. I'm sure they do take notice of things the fans say.

hey...the beerfish from the DAO forum?

sup man?