133 réponses à ce sujet

[jasonontko]

reepneep wrote...

ARK of ILKS wrote...

monkeycamoran wrote...

ARK of ILKS wrote...

word.

I agree, if my daughter was kidnapped, I wouldnt go around doing personal favors to the police or FBI. Its stupid.

FBI guy: Hey, I know your daughter was kidnapped (probably raped to death by now) but would you mind going to china and get my laundry? thanks dude, your the best. This will earn you my loyalty and make me work doubely hard to find your missing daughter.

Stupid, just stupid.....

Saren's looking for the Conduit. Why don't you give advice to a pair of quarreling strangers about what to do with their baby?

Thats a great idea, and while im at it, Ill go to Chora's Den and sit down to watch some stripper action, or better even... lets go to Pinnacle Station and waste hour after hour running around killing wave after wave of holographic baddies while Saren plans his little fieldtrip to Feros & Noveria.

Oh, he found the second beacon you say. Well, we cant win them all now can we.

This is what I think of consistency in ME:

Or sitting on your ass playing poker with a rodian in a remote space station while the big bad conquors the galaxy.

Inconsistency is the natural consequence of development teams moving from a couple dozen people to several hundered people.  More stuff means more writers means more stuff gets overlooked.

Sidequests are sidequests.  Assuming the plot elements have time pressure,  side quests don't make sense in any RPG.  In ME2, they're bigger, better developed and more integrated with the main plotline.  They're the single biggest source of character interaction with your flunkies, instead of just conversations on the Normandy.  They're just a more noticeable, much bigger part of the game in ME2, so instead of just ignoring them as the elephant in the room, they feel they have to **** about them.

Coincidentally, they're as skippable as ever.

The thing about it is there is a place for a character based story in a trilogy and that is the first installment.  You then transition from character based to event base.  If anything ME2 should have been ME1 and it would have been a much stronger trilogy.   

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

God damn you people are so negative.

[ZennExile]

Being realistic is not being negative. However positivity without regard for reality is in fact negative and harmful.

[jasonontko]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

God damn you people are so negative.

OK I will say something nice.  ME 2 had great aestetics.

Ohh wait... I cant do this.  The niceness is hurting me and turning me into a boring person.

Mass Effects 2 is to RPG Video Games as Jesisca Alba is to good cinema.  That is to say, its specious. Candy for the eye, not the mind.

Ahh I feel better now.

Modifié par jasonontko, 01 mars 2010 - 04:50 .

[tropicalwave]

@jasonontko So much win.



@ZennExile "No one cares how you justify it. It doesn't make sense on it's own without you "imagining" how the pieces come together and that can't be overcome with fan fiction."



for starter you don't speak for everyone. You only speak for yourself. And your wording comes across as rude. Second I don't remember putting any fan fiction into my response. In my response I specifically stated that an analogy used was not equal to the story in ME2. Then I responded in how I would love to have seen them do it, where I had the option to seek out the information on my own and didn't have to recruit anyone outside of Mordin.



So your response to me made no sense and felt strictly as an attack against me. And to that I would say poor form.



Like I've said before there are like only 5 'main story' missions before the suicide mission and 21 missions outside of the story mission that aren't 'side missions'. That does give a very flat feeling.

[tropicalwave]

@jasonontko "The thing about it is there is a place for a character based story in a trilogy and that is the first installment. You then transition from character based to event base. If anything ME2 should have been ME1 and it would have been a much stronger trilogy. "



Now that is a great idea. It would be easy to do to change around the story so ME2 comes first as stories go. Or even better you have all the character quests in ME .5 (since at the begging of ME1 you pretty much get your team within a couple of missions). Then the could do something different for ME2. LoL Oh now that is wishful thinking and gets me too excited....

[Pauravi]

Eh, I don't have such a big problem with it. The fact of the matter is that there really is no way for you to fight the Reapers at this point in the story. They're off in dark space, and the only visible element of the Reapers in the galaxy at the moment is the Collectors, who you ARE fighting.

[jasonontko]

tropicalwave wrote...

@jasonontko "The thing about it is there is a place for a character based story in a trilogy and that is the first installment. You then transition from character based to event base. If anything ME2 should have been ME1 and it would have been a much stronger trilogy. "

Now that is a great idea. It would be easy to do to change around the story so ME2 comes first as stories go. Or even better you have all the character quests in ME .5 (since at the begging of ME1 you pretty much get your team within a couple of missions). Then the could do something different for ME2. LoL Oh now that is wishful thinking and gets me too excited....

Thanks tropicalwave good to know I am not alone.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

ZennExile wrote...

Being realistic is not being negative. However positivity without regard for reality is in fact negative and harmful.

Mass effect is not supposed to be realistic

My only complaint is lack of exploration and dialouge, and it would be nice if they added a variety of weapons.

[ZennExile]

tropicalwave wrote...

@jasonontko "The thing about it is there is a place for a character based story in a trilogy and that is the first installment. You then transition from character based to event base. If anything ME2 should have been ME1 and it would have been a much stronger trilogy. "

Now that is a great idea. It would be easy to do to change around the story so ME2 comes first as stories go. Or even better you have all the character quests in ME .5 (since at the begging of ME1 you pretty much get your team within a couple of missions). Then the could do something different for ME2. LoL Oh now that is wishful thinking and gets me too excited....

Your post is missing words in key places that suggest a different meaning.  You're a line of text and so am I so taking anything personaly is silly.  You have no basis to judge my intentions other than a few words on the screen that you made the "choice" to assume were a personal attack.

Words are only 30% of communication.  You must, for the sake of sharing ideas in any rational manner, assume that you can NEVER understand more than 30% of the idea being communicated in any text box and act accordingly without assuming you somehow have special insight that makes up for missing inflections, anunciation, and body language that make up the other 70%.  And no I don't care if any of this is spelled wrong, sound it out. 

Modifié par ZennExile, 01 mars 2010 - 05:00 .

[ZennExile]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

Being realistic is not being negative. However positivity without regard for reality is in fact negative and harmful.

Mass effect is not supposed to be realistic

My only complaint is lack of exploration and dialouge, and it would be nice if they added a variety of weapons.

Exploration, or the utter lack of anything remotely resembling it, is by far my biggest gripe with ME2.

[Nozybidaj]

ZennExile wrote...

Chamberboozer wrote...

I'm just glad the loyalty missions made sense in and of themselves. Bioware could have done so much worse than they did, instead we wound up with intriguing missions that are well made for each character.

The OP's complaint makes sense, but I disagree.

Yeah if this game was like an expansion to ME1 and all it had was the missions, woulda been sweet.  But making a whole new game based on nothing but character side stories wasn't exactly in the spirit of the whole "sequel" concept...

Agreed.  ME2 as a whole feels like just a big collection of side missions instead of an actual sequel.  An actual sequel tends to involve story and character progression.  All we did was get a dozen people killed.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

ZennExile wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

Being realistic is not being negative. However positivity without regard for reality is in fact negative and harmful.

Mass effect is not supposed to be realistic

My only complaint is lack of exploration and dialouge, and it would be nice if they added a variety of weapons.

Exploration, or the utter lack of anything remotely resembling it, is by far my biggest gripe with ME2.

Guess thats what happens when to many people complain about the first game. I think bioware didn't really get the picture that people just didn't like the mako, that doesn't mean take out exploration completely =/.

Hopefully that hammerhead thing would open up a couple spots.

[jasonontko]

In defense of zennexile. He may be rude but he's funny and smart as hell, he is the Renegade option on the Bioware forum. You know what your going to get when you choose it.

Modifié par jasonontko, 01 mars 2010 - 05:07 .

[ZennExile]

jasonontko wrote...

In defense of zennexile. He may be rude but he's funny and smart as hell, he is the Renegade option on the Bioware forum. You know what your going to get when you choose it.

"Hi, my name is Zenn and this is my favorite post on the forums!"

[reepneep]

ZennExile wrote...

reepneep wrote...

 In ME2, they're bigger, better developed and more integrated with the main plotline. 

You had me until you dropped this big ole "Superman 64" on the thread...  The character sidequests replaced any semblence of an actual plot.  They were far from well developed.  And they most certainly did not integrate well with the main plot.  Unless Jacob's dad was pimpin his white hoes to the reapers....

You really don't have a civil bone in your body, do you?  I normally don't respond to your type but I think this point might need clarification.   Note that I didn't say well integrated, I said more integrated.  As in theres a plot related rather than just game mechanics reason to do them.  Whether the plot thread relates to 'teh reaperz' (like that is the only thing that matters and therefore the only thing the player could possibly be interested in <_<)isn't really the point, the fact that you're tying up these loose ends so your crew can more fully devote themselves to the mission is.  You can also say 'we don't have time' and jet right through the game. 

Is that line of reasoning kinda flimsy?  Yeah it is.  I challenge you to give me a better rationale for doing the sidequests in ME1.  Like I said, more integrated, not well integrated..

You want to complain about ineffective storytelling?  Complain about the horribly videogamey endgame sequence.

Modifié par reepneep, 01 mars 2010 - 05:25 .

[OptimusAlex]

i always thought of ME2's plot as being a "getting all your sh!t ready for the big epic conclusion in ME3


oh and by the way, if you don't like the plot of the game, quit whining about it and dont play it anymore, simple as that

Modifié par OptimusAlex, 01 mars 2010 - 05:34 .

[stormhit]

ZennExile wrote...

reepneep wrote...

 In ME2, they're bigger, better developed and more integrated with the main plotline. 

You had me until you dropped this big ole "Superman 64" on the thread...  The character sidequests replaced any semblence of an actual plot.  They were far from well developed.  And they most certainly did not integrate well with the main plot.  Unless Jacob's dad was pimpin his white hoes to the reapers....

Ah yes, racists.

[tropicalwave]

@ZennExile That is why I said it comes across as... I did not state you were doing anything! I did not take it personally, which you could see by my responses to others comments. I was just pointing out in a different way then you did that since words are the only way we are communicating here that some words without body language come across a certain way. And I am not the only one that the words you choose come across wrong.



But it is good to know that there is understanding.

[GenericPlayer2]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

GenericPlayer2 wrote...

I agree with the OP. It would have been appropriate for Bioware to add background news information indicating more colonies are being attacked (minimum effort on their part). That way the player can get the sense that there is a crisis and that he/she needs to go get that IFF instead of helping Jacob find his pervert dad.

Those are there. Listen to your crew, they talk about at least two more colonies (Ferris Fields and...New Calcutta? Second one is probably wrong) disappearing over the course of the game.

Ferris Fields is mentioned before Horizon. And I don't know about the second one you mentioned. The ones that count should be after the collector ship mission where Shep is running around acquiring new team mates or doing loyalty missions instead of getting the IFF. BioWare created a sense of urgency when your crew gets abducted, but they created no sense of urgency when you are doing loyalty missions instead of fetching the IFF.

[Lord Nicholai]

Pauravi wrote...

Eh, I don't have such a big problem with it. The fact of the matter is that there really is no way for you to fight the Reapers at this point in the story. They're off in dark space, and the only visible element of the Reapers in the galaxy at the moment is the Collectors, who you ARE fighting.

Agreed. By the looks of it some people here were expecting Shepard to go into darkspace and fight the reapers head on and finish it all before the 3rd game.

[Varenus Luckmann]

The story doesn't go over my head. It flies straight into it like a 9/11 bomber.

[ZennExile]

reepneep wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

reepneep wrote...

 In ME2, they're bigger, better developed and more integrated with the main plotline. 

You had me until you dropped this big ole "Superman 64" on the thread...  The character sidequests replaced any semblence of an actual plot.  They were far from well developed.  And they most certainly did not integrate well with the main plot.  Unless Jacob's dad was pimpin his white hoes to the reapers....

You really don't have a civil bone in your body, do you?  I normally don't respond to your type but I think this point might need clarification.   Note that I didn't say well integrated, I said more integrated.  As in theres a plot related rather than just game mechanics reason to do them.  Whether the plot thread relates to 'teh reaperz' (like that is the only thing that matters and therefore the only thing the player could possibly be interested in <_<)isn't really the point, the fact that you're tying up these loose ends so your crew can more fully devote themselves to the mission is.  You can also say 'we don't have time' and jet right through the game. 

Is that line of reasoning kinda flimsy?  Yeah it is.  I challenge you to give me a better rationale for doing the sidequests in ME1.  Like I said, more integrated, not well integrated..

You want to complain about ineffective storytelling?  Complain about the horribly videogamey endgame sequence.

Civility is overrated.  It's like Poitics and Religion.  Just another way to exact control.  However, if we start this kind of debate we'll likely get noticed by the big mean moderators so maybe not the place for this...

However, your challenge doesn't seem all that complicated.  The sidequests in ME1 weren't required to be successful.  You had the choice to find them and the choice to complete them.  The easiest rational would simply be to explore and uncover the mysteries of the galaxy.

In ME2 the "crewquests" aren't sidequests at all.  They are forced advancment quests.  Sure you can skip them but if you do you are garunteed to fail the final mission.  So technically they take the place of an actual plot.  They give you the illusion of being optional.  But they really aren't.

Yeah the ending sequence really coulda been a bit more cinematic, that's for sure, but I do like how Bioware uses the engine to create more "true to gamespace" cinematics.  It may not be as pretty but the armor weapon and character appearance are accurate and I think that amount of immersion helps keep the player in the game through the cinematics rather than taking them out of the game to watch a little movie.

[Skilled Seeker]

Wow Zenn you actually said something good about the game! My boy is growing up!