133 réponses à ce sujet

[MusicToEat]

kregano wrote...

Why would everyone suddenly accept
humanity just because they saved the Council and team up to beat the
Reapers?

Because that would have at least been a
story advancment, instead of completely reseting the story and going off
in some unrelated direction.

[ccconda]

True, it's all very episodic and self contained.



Why didn't they just make the loyalty quests a part of the main mission? Change the story around so you encounter collector-related intel and such on the other planets and missions, and have you gradually work your way toward unravelling the collector threat? Yeesh! They made like 10+ unique flavorful character missions but said "yeah lets make them simply for 'loyalty' and make them OPTIONAL".



I can't back up Bioware's decision to make ME2 an experimental "Shepard gets a random party together, and they will all DIE at the end UNLESS he does their side missions! Funky! Never been done before!"

How about journeying from planet to planet and encountering mysterious abductions, ancient technology clues, and meeting/helping your team along the way? I like the variety of environments in ME2 but, right now, it's built like a Super Mario game where Jacob's (or whoever's) loyalty quest may as well be called "5-3"

[Nightwriter]

GenericPlayer2 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

jasonontko wrote...

Totally agree. Unfortunately you can appeal to the lowest common denominator and still make art with vdieo games.  Bioshock I thought did that well, it made some coin too. 

Ha, yeah.  Lowest common denominator seems to be synonymous with "larger market share" in the eyes of a game developer.  Sadly that is usually the case.

Its a sad state of affairs when people are more concerned with having their LI on their team in ME3 instead of actual plot or story.

Well... well... look what they gave us for a story!!

What are we supposed to do?!  

[MLG_Jake]

I agree completely. Since whenever i am crouched behind cover and being shot at, my thoughts tend to drift to my long lost daughter/sister/father/home as a child/my desire to kill(WTF how does wanting to kill distract him from killling things?????????)/my lab partner/etc.

[jasonontko]

MLG_Jake wrote...

I agree completely. Since whenever i am crouched behind cover and being shot at, my thoughts tend to drift to my long lost daughter/sister/father/home as a child/my desire to kill(WTF how does wanting to kill distract him from killling things?????????)/my lab partner/etc.

I dont know.  Every time at work when some one ask me to do something I give them a loyalty quest first.  Sure I will get to your Government Related Entity Default Study but first can you find my long lost father or I might not be focused enough to have it done by the publishing date.

[jasonontko]

Nightwriter wrote...

GenericPlayer2 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

jasonontko wrote...

Totally agree. Unfortunately you can appeal to the lowest common denominator and still make art with vdieo games.  Bioshock I thought did that well, it made some coin too. 

Ha, yeah.  Lowest common denominator seems to be synonymous with "larger market share" in the eyes of a game developer.  Sadly that is usually the case.

Its a sad state of affairs when people are more concerned with having their LI on their team in ME3 instead of actual plot or story.

Well... well... look what they gave us for a story!!

What are we supposed to do?!  

 
What were doing right now, giving Bioware feedback.

[Kileyan]

jasonontko wrote...

To your second point watch the council again and tell me that council does not accept humans or acknowledge the reapers.

As for the council deciding the reapers weren't a threat or didn't exist after ME1. They are typical politicians who like to pass the buck. If they did think such a think existed, but were convinced that after the relay was closed they were stopped or would take 100 or 1000 years to reach our space, they might just decide to pass the buck to others, as it won't concern them in their term on council, let alone their life time.


I propose an interesting question and what ME3 could be about:). Lets say the Reapers are coming, they don't have any more back up plans or relays to use. Our man Mordin and the Salarians during the time between ME2 and Me3 timeline do some math and decide it will take the Reapers(made up number) 600 years to reach our location.

No one will remember the Citadel almost falling, the single Reaper ship or even Sheps name other than as some bedtime story.. Other than Asari, how does Sheperd or anyone leave as their legacy the lasting knowledge that the death of the galaxy is coming. Do the typical 80ish year lifespan races believe the Asari stories after several of their short lived generations?

How does Shep fade off into death while leaving in death lasting incontrovertible proof that will last ages, that a threat is coming? The reapers don't win always because they are stronger, but often they can just outlast the memories of those they are coming for.

Actually I believe the reapers are stronger, but also logical and conserve energy, they aren't in a big hurry, waiting out people for 200 or 1000 years till they forget, isn't like us biologics waiting 1000 years, they don't care.

Modifié par Kileyan, 02 mars 2010 - 04:21 .

[Nightwriter]

jasonontko wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

GenericPlayer2 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

jasonontko wrote...

Totally agree. Unfortunately you can appeal to the lowest common denominator and still make art with vdieo games.  Bioshock I thought did that well, it made some coin too. 

Ha, yeah.  Lowest common denominator seems to be synonymous with "larger market share" in the eyes of a game developer.  Sadly that is usually the case.

Its a sad state of affairs when people are more concerned with having their LI on their team in ME3 instead of actual plot or story.

Well... well... look what they gave us for a story!!

What are we supposed to do?!  

 
What were doing right now, giving Bioware feedback.

... Did you just give me a justifiable reason to complain? I think you did.

Oh, what glorious ammunition you have given me. I will remember this day.

[jasonontko]

Kileyan wrote...

jasonontko wrote...

To your second point watch the council again and tell me that council does not accept humans or acknowledge the reapers.

As for the council deciding the reapers weren't a threat or didn't exist after ME1. They are typical politicians who like to pass the buck. If they did think such a think existed, but were convinced that after the relay was closed they were stopped or would take 100 or 1000 years to reach our space, they might just decide to pass the buck to others, as it won't concern them in their term on council, let alone their life time.


I propose an interesting question and what ME3 could be about:). Lets say the Reapers are coming, they don't have any more back up plans or relays to use. Our man Mordin and the Salarians during the time between ME2 and Me3 timeline do some math and decide it will take the Reapers(made up number) 600 years to reach our location.

No one will remember the Citadel almost falling, the single Reaper ship or even Sheps name other than as some bedtime story.. Other than Asari, how does Sheperd or anyone leave as their legacy the lasting knowledge that the death of the galaxy is coming. Do the typical 80ish year lifespan races believe the Asari stories after several of their short lived generations?

How does Shep fade off into death while leaving in death lasting incontrovertible proof that will last ages, that a threat is coming? The reapers don't win always because they are stronger, but often they can just outlast the memories of those they are coming for.

Actually I believe the reapers are stronger, but also logical and conserve energy, they aren't in a big hurry, waiting out people for 200 or 1000 years till they forget, isn't like us biologics waiting 1000 years, they don't care.

Interesting concept but even a man like myself who likes thought provoking plots also wants to see a large scale war of epic porpotions.

As far as the council, they dont need to go public, they just need work with the best Specter they ever had to ensure the worse does not happen.   This is why they have Specters to begin with. 

[Nozybidaj]

Kileyan wrote...

In game it served no point but to set up the fact  that the game was dark and edgy.

Did anyone actually feel like the game was "dark and edgy" though?  I didn't really.  Most of the situations had more of a "comic booky" darkness to them, it felt like at some level they didn't really take the source material seriously.

To me ME1 feels like a more mature game with the occasional dark side to it.  ME2 is more a watered down version of what a "dark second act" should be.

[Nozybidaj]

MusicToEat wrote...

ReTrAcK08 wrote...

MusicToEat wrote...

ReTrAcK08 wrote...

2. The end of ME2 shows that TIM was only intrested in gathering Collector/Reaper technology for human dominance. TIM puts up a front so he can keep Shepard an ally. If TIM was telling Shepard that the only reason he is confronting the Collectors for Cerberus dominance from the get go, I hardly think Shepard would want to work for him.

Since I chose Sole Survivor as my past in ME1 and in ME1 I find out that Cerberus is responsible fore Akuze and I also find out that I wasn't the sole survior, but that Cerberus experimented/killed the other surviors, I hardly think Shep would have wanted to worked with him from the begining.  Not even as a thank you for raising him from the dead.

Shepard doesn't have the resource to confront the Collector threat on his own. Cerberus is the only party backing Shepard up. I don't think Shepard is going to hold a grudge especially seeing how human lives are on the line.

To the point he wouldn't even mention it to them?

You'd think that the continuation of ME1's story would have been, Humanity having proved themselves in the eyes of the other alien races, everyone would have joined up to defeat a common enemy.  Instead we get a council that once again isn't convinced of the reaper threat.  Even though they had one die right in the middle of their United Nations.   The other races still resenting humanity.  Even though we saved their asses at considerable cost in human lives.  Not even the Alliance want to have anything to do with us. 

This is all subjective of course, but so much of ME2's story didn't make sense to me that it was kind of a disapointment.  It was like ME1 didn't even happen at all.  The council living or dying has zero effect on the story other then some minor flavor text.

Agree with your points, just too many oversights, missed opportunities, and generally unbelievable motivations all around.

[Nightwriter]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Kileyan wrote...

In game it served no point but to set up the fact  that the game was dark and edgy.

Did anyone actually feel like the game was "dark and edgy" though?  I didn't really.  Most of the situations had more of a "comic booky" darkness to them, it felt like at some level they didn't really take the source material seriously.

To me ME1 feels like a more mature game with the occasional dark side to it.  ME2 is more a watered down version of what a "dark second act" should be.

I thought that it was darker than the first game, and took you to grittier places, but all in all it didn't feel that dark, no.

[ZennExile]

ME2 is about as dark as Japanese Bubble Pop to be perfectly honest. 0o0o swear words and environments with seedy people in them. AND OMG you could DIE!!!!

Please. The only thing "dark" about ME2 is the lighting. Even a full hardcore Paragon playthrough feels like a Saturday Night Live skit...

[Acero Azul]

I didn't mind the loyalty missions, i just wish there were more regular missions as well

[ZennExile]

Follow up. ME2 only seems "dark" to homeschooled kids who've never had to suffer through anything in their entire life more tangeble than the loss of a childhood pet.

[jasonontko]

If the developers were looking for dark and edgy that clearly had not played Deus Ex. I have to decide either to rule the world as a AI dictator, give it to an evil orgainzation or send into a second dark age. That some dark ***t.

Modifié par jasonontko, 02 mars 2010 - 04:50 .

[jasonontko]

ZennExile wrote...

Follow up. ME2 only seems "dark" to homeschooled kids who've never had to suffer through anything in their entire life more tangeble than the loss of a childhood pet.

Damn Zen this just cant be topped.

[Nozybidaj]

jasonontko wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

Follow up. ME2 only seems "dark" to homeschooled kids who've never had to suffer through anything in their entire life more tangeble than the loss of a childhood pet.

Damn Zen this just cant be topped.

But, but, the fish, why couldn't Kelly feed my fish sooner?  Lord why?  :crying:

[Sigma Tauri]

MusicToEat wrote...

Finding Wrex's armor was just a small side story though.  It added flavor to an epic story line.  ME2 is all side story.

When the side quests are 10 times as long as the main quest, things are out of wack.

Say what you want. Side quests are still leisurely taken even when the game situation is dire. Wrex's Armor had you visit a dead planet away from the four plot worlds.

[WillieStyle]

I have never in all my years on the interwebs seen a more self-absorbed bunch of wankers.

Ooh I'm edgy. Ooh ME2 fans have never known true pain. Not like me. Man, back in 'nam I saw things that'd make a grown man cry.



For all the talk of feeback, the only actualy feedback in this thread amounts to "make ME2 before ME1."

[jasonontko]

WillieStyle wrote...

I have never in all my years on the interwebs seen a more self-absorbed bunch of wankers.
Ooh I'm edgy. Ooh ME2 fans have never known true pain. Not like me. Man, back in 'nam I saw things that'd make a grown man cry.

For all the talk of feeback, the only actualy feedback in this thread amounts to "make ME2 before ME1."

While this is not the real point, I did spend a tour in Iraq and have seen grown men cry and you know, it really is not that funny.  But then again I am self absorbed enough to put my life on the line for the only nation on earth that can show that people from every race and religion can live together in realitive harmony.  I know I am total narcists.   Dont believe me, you have my name, look it up.

Now as far as feedback is concern it is alot more complicted, but symplfied it in order to minimize confusion.  If you knew anything about communication, then you know you want keep to one concept. 

When I have an opionion I express it forcefully.  I dont understand what you want me to do, sit down, shut up and withdraw from society? 

Now I got to go to bed, got work tommorrow.   If you want to continue this beat down, I am more than willing to oblige.

[PooPoomonster]

The operation is smaller. In ME1 you were working as an agent of the council representing a trillion(?) people. In ME2 you are working for one large secretive organization. So the game feels smaller due to that too. If it makes you feel better though I agree, I would have liked more missions dealing with the actual problem of reapers and collectors rather than mostly recruitment missions.

            As to whether a trilogy was actually planned from the start I assume you know it was announced from the start. I think the style of ME2 points to that. This is the boring middle part where we build towards the climax. Its not as exciting as the beggining because you know what you are doing and gaining the ability to do it better instead of shock and awe. Next will be the finalle where all the resources are thrown to bring a final resolution.

[PooPoomonster]

jasonontko wrote...

WillieStyle wrote...

I have never in all my years on the interwebs seen a more self-absorbed bunch of wankers.
Ooh I'm edgy. Ooh ME2 fans have never known true pain. Not like me. Man, back in 'nam I saw things that'd make a grown man cry.

For all the talk of feeback, the only actualy feedback in this thread amounts to "make ME2 before ME1."

While this is not the real point, I did spend a tour in Iraq and have seen grown men cry and you know, it really is not that funny.  But then again I am self absorbed enough to put my life on the line for the only nation on earth that can show that people from every race and religion can live together in realitive harmony.  I know I am total narcists.   Dont believe me, you have my name, look it up.

Yea you are self absorbed.

[Massadonious1]

MusicToEat wrote...

kregano wrote...

Why would everyone suddenly accept
humanity just because they saved the Council and team up to beat the
Reapers?

Because that would have at least been a
story advancment, instead of completely reseting the story and going off
in some unrelated direction.

You're right, all the other alien races should be about hugz 'n cuddlez when you just sacrificed 10,000 of their commrades lives for a brief tactical advantage, then inserted your own race into sole positions of power over their lives.

I could explain how it also works if you saved the council, but I'm afraid that may spoil it, seeing on how a lot of you clearly haven't played it.

You don't have to hate it because people like ZennExile hate it.

[Jack_Shandy]

Jesus Christ!



I can only imagine that this thread holds the top 1% of Mass Effect players, because everyone else I've talked to, on the internet and in real life, frigging loved the thing. Myself included. It's ranked better than ME1 by a long shot, in my books.



I think one of the problems here is that people are mistaking one of the "Problems" with RPGs in general as a problem with Mass Effect's story specifically. Western RPGs are always about letting you muck around in a fantasy world doing whatever the hell you want while the bad guy is about to kill everything. ALWAYS. Hell, usually there's a point where they say;



"The bad guy's just about to release his evil plan and kill everyone! Go level up with some sidequests and things, he'll be there when you get back. No rush."



It's not REALLY a problem, so long as you suspend your disbelief a bit. Don't think of it as an epic movie: Think of it as a TV show. You have the missions/loyalty missions as self-contained episodes (pretty much separate from each other and dealing with small, self-contained issues) and then the big overarching dark Myth Arc that enters in every now and again, coming to a head in the finale. It's possibly better played more moment-by-moment. Unless the loyalty missions had you physically going "UGH SHUT UP YOU STUPID CREW MEMBERS I NEED TO ATTACK THE COLLECTORS" then I don't really see a problem with it.



The structure of it is fine, really. I'll agree that there are some plot holes/suspension of disbelief moments, no doubt. But it's a Space Opera, not frigging Shakespeare.



I am curious about the fact that apparently they're parables? What, parables like "Don't shoot a guy who betrayed your team", or "Don't let all the crew become mentally retarded and then shag the women", or "Don't let your son become an Assassin"?



And; I mean no disrespect, jasonontko, but I am tired of people using the fact that they were war veterans as ammo for internet arguments. The fact that you served in Iraq has no relevance to your opinion on the story of a video game.