283 réponses à ce sujet

[ZennExile]

Sharn01 wrote...

But he is entertaining... and sometimes his rant's do make sense, sometimes.

They always make perfect sense unless yer a troll looking for any excuse to defend a bridge.  But at that point it doesn't really matter anymore. 

[Sleepicub09]

ZennExile wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

But he is entertaining... and sometimes his rant's do make sense, sometimes.

They always make perfect sense unless yer a troll looking for any excuse to defend a bridge.  But at that point it doesn't really matter anymore. 

no they don't all make sense I seen you rant on about some silly things

[ZennExile]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

I'm not talkin about easter eggs here.  I'm talking about hidden star clusters, moons behind large planets, hidden items in crates, secret rooms or hidden pasages to "secret" areas.

Why is ME2 void of anything remotely resembling exploration and discovery?  Do the developers think the average gamer is too stupid to find hidden content?  Did someone at Bioware discover some market research that suggests all gamers hate finding secret stuff and must be handed every ounce of content on a silver rimmed platter garnished with "Yes we think yer stupid"-sauce?

RPGs typically offer something to explore, somthing to discover, and the option to choose your own path through the main story elements.   ME2 denies the player all of these things and no reason for this has ever been disclosed by any of the developers.

This seems like something that should have been explained in some manner.

Sounds like you scanned and probed all the gas giants, and it's not enough. If this is the case, you need to see a doctor.

Why is ME2 void of anything remotely resembling exploration and discovery?

On this one I can reply: R.I.P., dear Mako!

I did enter orbit on every planet in the game which is all you need to do to get credit for the solar system % score. 

And the Mako was only a vehicle.  Exploration didn't even require it you could run around every planet on foot as well. 

[didymos1120]

ZennExile wrote...
Is it really hidden though when the solar system has a % sign on it telling you that you have missed something and even telling you how many somethings you missed if yer any good at math?  Sure there are planetary bodies in a couple astroid belts but you are handed them on a platter.  That isn't really hidden is it?

Neither was much of anything in ME1.  Almost everything was marked on the map.  For fairness' sake, I'm going to have to ask you to b!tch about that.

Modifié par didymos1120, 01 mars 2010 - 06:12 .

[ZennExile]

Sleepicub09 wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

But he is entertaining... and sometimes his rant's do make sense, sometimes.

They always make perfect sense unless yer a troll looking for any excuse to defend a bridge.  But at that point it doesn't really matter anymore. 

no they don't all make sense I seen you rant on about some silly things

The quote explains your perception clearly as does your need to follow me around "trolling" damn near every post I make. 

[ZennExile]

didymos1120 wrote...

ZennExile wrote...
Is it really hidden though when the solar system has a % sign on it telling you that you have missed something and even telling you how many somethings you missed if yer any good at math?  Sure there are planetary bodies in a couple astroid belts but you are handed them on a platter.  That isn't really hidden is it?

Neither was much of anything in ME1.  Almost everything was marked on the map.  For fairness' sake, I'm going to have to ask you to b!tch about that.

Just about everything.  I suppose that is fair enough to say without considering crates had items in them, planets had hidden codex updates, you could explore levels and maps, and the entire game wasn't a series of linear shooting galleries with nothing hidden and no secrets....

[Sharn01]

I am actually on your side for a lot of the point's you make for the stories main plot, but this post is an example of you ranting about silly things, as was recently pointed out.

[thegreateski]

Why is there nothing hidden?



It's not hidden if you know where it is.

[ZennExile]

Sharn01 wrote...

I am actually on your side for a lot of the point's you make for the stories main plot, but this post is an example of you ranting about silly things, as was recently pointed out.

I'll accept this and shut up if you can find a single RPG in the history of Video Games that has no "secret" content or "hidden" items AND follows a linear mission system...

[The Lord of Space]

If no one complains about these things then what is the most likely outcome for ME3? The same ****.

[Sharn01]

ZennExile wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

I am actually on your side for a lot of the point's you make for the stories main plot, but this post is an example of you ranting about silly things, as was recently pointed out.

I'll accept this and shut up if you can find a single RPG in the history of Video Games that has no "secret" content or "hidden" items AND follows a linear mission system...

The origonal ME did not have much in the way of hidden objectives, not anything of signifigance at any rate.

But I digress, if the story had lived up to your expectation's, would not the lack of hdden or secret content been so insignifigant that it would not be worth mentioning?

[ZennExile]

The Lord of Space wrote...

If no one complains about these things then what is the most likely outcome for ME3? The same ****.

Exactly

Bioware made a good game but from the thousands of posts about how ME2 doesn't seem like an RPG or the sequel to ME1 it's fairly clear that I'm not the only person with these conserns.  Even the fanbois are like "yeah I miss the RPG elements but ME2 is still the best thing evah cause I'm a bat**** crazy fanboi what would eat it's poo if asked!!!"

[ZennExile]

Sharn01 wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

I am actually on your side for a lot of the point's you make for the stories main plot, but this post is an example of you ranting about silly things, as was recently pointed out.

I'll accept this and shut up if you can find a single RPG in the history of Video Games that has no "secret" content or "hidden" items AND follows a linear mission system...

The origonal ME did not have much in the way of hidden objectives, not anything of signifigance at any rate.

But I digress, if the story had lived up to your expectation's, would not the lack of hdden or secret content been so insignifigant that it would not be worth mentioning?

Exploration and Discovery are exceptionally powerful RPG elements.  They are the absolute most important motivation of millions of Gamers according to this widley accepted theory on gamer motivation  Bartle Test 

I don't believe the best story ever written could make up for this lack of RPG elements that, without doubt, played such a large role in why ME1 was embraced by millions of players as one of the best RPGs of all time.

[Sleepicub09]

ZennExile wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

But he is entertaining... and sometimes his rant's do make sense, sometimes.

They always make perfect sense unless yer a troll looking for any excuse to defend a bridge.  But at that point it doesn't really matter anymore. 

no they don't all make sense I seen you rant on about some silly things

The quote explains your perception clearly as does your need to follow me around "trolling" damn near every post I make. 

I actually didn't know you were the op of this thread when I first clicked on it and then I seen your avatar and I was like F**K

[ZennExile]

Sleepicub09 wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

But he is entertaining... and sometimes his rant's do make sense, sometimes.

They always make perfect sense unless yer a troll looking for any excuse to defend a bridge.  But at that point it doesn't really matter anymore. 

no they don't all make sense I seen you rant on about some silly things

The quote explains your perception clearly as does your need to follow me around "trolling" damn near every post I make. 

I actually didn't know you were the op of this thread when I first clicked on it and then I seen your avatar and I was like F**K

It's ok I undertand why trolls are attracted to me.  It's more or less intentional.  Conversations tend to be less retarded when the trolls announce themselves up front.  So it's a win/win for everyone.

[Sharn01]

ZennExile wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

I am actually on your side for a lot of the point's you make for the stories main plot, but this post is an example of you ranting about silly things, as was recently pointed out.

I'll accept this and shut up if you can find a single RPG in the history of Video Games that has no "secret" content or "hidden" items AND follows a linear mission system...

The origonal ME did not have much in the way of hidden objectives, not anything of signifigance at any rate.

But I digress, if the story had lived up to your expectation's, would not the lack of hdden or secret content been so insignifigant that it would not be worth mentioning?

Exploration and Discovery are exceptionally powerful RPG elements.  They are the absolute most important motivation of millions of Gamers according to this widley accepted theory on gamer motivation  Bartle Test 

I don't believe the best story ever written could make up for this lack of RPG elements that, without doubt, played such a large role in why ME1 was embraced by millions of players as one of the best RPGs of all time.

Then why did you rant about the story immediately and save this one for March if it's such a more important element then the story?

Chill a bit and get back to discussing the things that are actually important.  I would not mind bigger area's or hidden goodies, but if the storyline had been everything I wanted I would have no complaint's in the slightest. 

Not to mention from an objective standpoint the story is actually pretty good, it just never should have been a story for Shepard, it belong's to a new character who is a Cerberus agent that is not entirely familiar with everything Cerberus does. 

[didymos1120]

ZennExile wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

ZennExile wrote...
Is it really hidden though when the solar system has a % sign on it telling you that you have missed something and even telling you how many somethings you missed if yer any good at math?  Sure there are planetary bodies in a couple astroid belts but you are handed them on a platter.  That isn't really hidden is it?

Neither was much of anything in ME1.  Almost everything was marked on the map.  For fairness' sake, I'm going to have to ask you to b!tch about that.

Just about everything.  I suppose that is fair enough to say without considering crates had items in them, planets had hidden codex updates, you could explore levels and maps, and the entire game wasn't a series of linear shooting galleries with nothing hidden and no secrets....

Crates that weren't at all hidden.  And were yet more tedious "Simon" sequences most of the time.  For the codex stuff, you didn't "find" anything.  It just updated by virtue of you being there.  Tricky, that. The vast majority of it was found by way of conversation, or clicking stuff in plain sight: also not hidden. 

You can still explore maps in ME2.  You just don't drive to them now over mostly bland and/or annoying terrain sprinkled with mildly interesting mini-game triggers (and it was always the SAME mini-game for everything).  Admittedly, some UNC worlds set a nice mood, but those were pretty few and there was still hardly anything of note on those.

You can still open crates and wall safes and hack stuff.  They just tend to have metals and med-kits now or credits, instead of crap you almost certainly don't want and is destined to be omni-gel or sold for...credits. 

Also, ME1 was just as much a bunch of shooting galleries, and far less unique at that when it came to all the nigh-identical UNC buildings/abandoned mines/freighters.  The plot worlds were rather linear too.  Sure they gave you some side stuff on two worlds, but it wasn't much different than the optional stuff on Omega, the Citadel, or Ilium.  They've simply separated the truly plot-progressing stuff into self-contained mini-worlds.  But Therum, Virmire, Ilos, and the final Citadel level were pure "Start at A, go to B, shoot crap along the way"

ETA:  Oh, and so was the Eden Prime prologue.

Modifié par didymos1120, 01 mars 2010 - 06:47 .

[Sleepicub09]

ZennExile wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

But he is entertaining... and sometimes his rant's do make sense, sometimes.

They always make perfect sense unless yer a troll looking for any excuse to defend a bridge.  But at that point it doesn't really matter anymore. 

no they don't all make sense I seen you rant on about some silly things

The quote explains your perception clearly as does your need to follow me around "trolling" damn near every post I make. 

I actually didn't know you were the op of this thread when I first clicked on it and then I seen your avatar and I was like F**K

It's ok I undertand why trolls are attracted to me.  It's more or less intentional.  Conversations tend to be less retarded when the trolls announce themselves up front.  So it's a win/win for everyone.

you make no sense I am not troll and i never even called you troll so where is the word troll coming from

Modifié par Sleepicub09, 01 mars 2010 - 06:41 .

[GodWood]

BOORAGEBOO

[BobbyTheI]

If a good RPG needs to have "driving back and forth across the same mile of square footage in order to find a blip that will give you a small cash bonus or yet another piece of equipment you will have no use for," then I'll pass on RPGs, thanks.

(I honestly don't even care about this argument, but I just want to see if he can actually resist responding to every single solitary post on a thread.  The experiment... begins.) 

[didymos1120]

Sleepicub09 wrote...
you make no sense I am not troll and i never even called you troll so where is the word troll coming from

At this point, shouting "Troll!" is practically a spinal reflex for Zenn, I think.

[didymos1120]

"You're going outside the operational range commander. Get back in your perfectly square box and play Simon, damn it!"

[ZennExile]

Sharn01 wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

I am actually on your side for a lot of the point's you make for the stories main plot, but this post is an example of you ranting about silly things, as was recently pointed out.

I'll accept this and shut up if you can find a single RPG in the history of Video Games that has no "secret" content or "hidden" items AND follows a linear mission system...

The origonal ME did not have much in the way of hidden objectives, not anything of signifigance at any rate.

But I digress, if the story had lived up to your expectation's, would not the lack of hdden or secret content been so insignifigant that it would not be worth mentioning?

Exploration and Discovery are exceptionally powerful RPG elements.  They are the absolute most important motivation of millions of Gamers according to this widley accepted theory on gamer motivation  Bartle Test 

I don't believe the best story ever written could make up for this lack of RPG elements that, without doubt, played such a large role in why ME1 was embraced by millions of players as one of the best RPGs of all time.

Then why did you rant about the story immediately and save this one for March if it's such a more important element then the story?

Chill a bit and get back to discussing the things that are actually important.  I would not mind bigger area's or hidden goodies, but if the storyline had been everything I wanted I would have no complaint's in the slightest. 

Not to mention from an objective standpoint the story is actually pretty good, it just never should have been a story for Shepard, it belong's to a new character who is a Cerberus agent that is not entirely familiar with everything Cerberus does. 

Yeah if the plot was different and the game was called Mass Effect: Cerberus and didn't claim to be a sequel to ME1 but a new game altogether I would not have had much to say about the game other than it doesn't seem like an RPG and the side quests replace the main plot...  Like I've always said, it's a "good" game but it's not great nor does it feel like a sequel to ME1.

But the story isn't cohesive regardless of intention.  The majority of the plot elements are loosly string together with the thinest of fibers.  Objectively that is poor story telling.  You should also realise "Things that don't make sense" and "poor Storytelling" are two different ideas and were presented as such.

The reason I saved this idea was because players won't really grasp it fully until they've got to the point where looking for hidden content is all that's left.  Before that point the only player type that will notice the lack of hidden content would the the Explorer.  That removes all the other player types from the discussion and I figured that would be rude.   

Modifié par ZennExile, 01 mars 2010 - 06:47 .

[ZennExile]

BobbyTheI wrote...

If a good RPG needs to have "driving back and forth across the same mile of square footage in order to find a blip that will give you a small cash bonus or yet another piece of equipment you will have no use for," then I'll pass on RPGs, thanks.

(I honestly don't even care about this argument, but I just want to see if he can actually resist responding to every single solitary post on a thread.  The experiment... begins.) 

That's what makes you a troll. 

[Sharn01]

I am what you would call an explorer, I refuse to finish a game even the first time until I have found every little secret it has hidden, and I still would have overlooked it all for the sake of the story.