283 réponses à ce sujet

[Sleepicub09]

ZennExile wrote...

The Lord of Space wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

I know it seems like everyone should think like you and understand what you mean when you just pick stuff out of context and quote it in responce to something, but that's not the case.

Certainly not, but I don't care either way.

To be fair and more concise, it's not that they think the average gamer is stupid, they think (and are basically right) the average gamer just doesn't care. They knew this game would be spooged over regardless of whether or not the levels were extended with extra paths or hidden gems so why spend the resources doing it.

Hopefully they'll see that many people do like these things and that maybe it will increase their profits from ME3 if they make the effort to expand on the exploration front.

See that was pretty far from what I guessed your first post meant

I do think the average gamer does care a bit more than you might think about exploration elements in their games though.  I just believe that they don't recognize it and turn their focus to other concepts they can readily identify with.  All those saying about "knowing yourself" aren't just old delusional men ranting.  It's a difficult for people to look in and try to understand.  Much easier to just assign blame to whichever scapegoat happens to be in front of them.

I for one care the levels were to small. it was basically corridor, small room , corridor small room thats PSX era 2 me

[ZennExile]

Like deep still water. If you can see the bottom, it still seems shallow.

[ZennExile]

Sleepicub09 wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

The Lord of Space wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

I know it seems like everyone should think like you and understand what you mean when you just pick stuff out of context and quote it in responce to something, but that's not the case.

Certainly not, but I don't care either way.

To be fair and more concise, it's not that they think the average gamer is stupid, they think (and are basically right) the average gamer just doesn't care. They knew this game would be spooged over regardless of whether or not the levels were extended with extra paths or hidden gems so why spend the resources doing it.

Hopefully they'll see that many people do like these things and that maybe it will increase their profits from ME3 if they make the effort to expand on the exploration front.

See that was pretty far from what I guessed your first post meant

I do think the average gamer does care a bit more than you might think about exploration elements in their games though.  I just believe that they don't recognize it and turn their focus to other concepts they can readily identify with.  All those saying about "knowing yourself" aren't just old delusional men ranting.  It's a difficult for people to look in and try to understand.  Much easier to just assign blame to whichever scapegoat happens to be in front of them.

I for one care the levels were to small. it was basically corridor, small room , corridor small room thats PSX era 2 me

Hey now, Final Fantasy 7 was the "anti-linear" and there was more exploration and hidden crap in that game then every Bioware game released in the last 5 years combined. 

[Xandurpein]

I am not privy to the minds of Bioware, but I'll tell you what I think. Bioware have always, whatever the game, focused on the storytelling. They have in numerous interviews stated that they wanted to give Mass Effect a cinematic feeling. If you look at many of the things in ME2 that departs from what they have done previously, it all points towards enhancing the story and make it flow more like in a movie.

The conversation system is designed so you can keep the dialogue flowing 'on the fly' with hearing Shepard's voice and the way you only get very quick read in the response wheel so you can keep the conversation flowing. The new 'interrupt events' in the conversations. It gives the game more pacing.

The incredible amount of work they put into finding camera angles and facial expressions is all to make the game look more like a movie.

Combat in Mass Effect is meant to be fast and fun. Not the tactical "stop, plan, play 3 sec, stop" puzzles games like Baldur's Gate are. Emphasis is on action.

Spending endless time going back and forth to find that extra hidden planet with an invisible box containing a +5 laser rifle may be fun for some, but it isn't a very cinematic experience. It's the anti-thesis of a fast paced game that Mass Effect really is.

I think that Mass Effect was never meant to be an old school RPG. It was meant to be something else. Mass Effect 1 still kept more of the elements of an old school RPG, but they got axed when they realized it didn't fit into the vision of what Mass Effect is meant to be.

Now you obviously are a fan of old school RPG, to the point that anything that deviates from the norm is a loss to you. You do have the right to your opinion of course. My guess is however that deviations from the norm in Mass Effect are intentional, because ME tries to achieve something different than being an old school RPG. If you think that it means ME is 'dumbed down', again that is your opinion. I think it creates an expereince that is different, but not at all lesser.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 01 mars 2010 - 08:00 .

[BellaStrega]

Sleepicub09 wrote...

oooo lets guess what his next rant will be hmmm

the storyline oh no wait he did that already

oh what about planet scanning wait I think he did that 2

oh what about ammo counter wait I think he did that one to

oh the loot system oh wait he did that a couple of days ago
hmmmm he'll find something

Who can forget the time he started a new thread to say ME1 is better than ME2 because of clothing/armor options for your squad members?

[eternalnightmare13]

ZennExile wrote...

I'm not talkin about easter eggs here.  I'm talking about hidden star clusters, moons behind large planets, hidden items in crates, secret rooms or hidden pasages to "secret" areas.

Why is ME2 void of anything remotely resembling exploration and discovery?  Do the developers think the average gamer is too stupid to find hidden content?  Did someone at Bioware discover some market research that suggests all gamers hate finding secret stuff and must be handed every ounce of content on a silver rimmed platter garnished with "Yes we think yer stupid"-sauce?

RPGs typically offer something to explore, somthing to discover, and the option to choose your own path through the main story elements.   ME2 denies the player all of these things and no reason for this has ever been disclosed by any of the developers.

This seems like something that should have been explained in some manner.

There are planetoids you can find amongst the asteroid belts of certain systems.

[Xandurpein]

BellaStrega wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

oooo lets guess what his next rant will be hmmm

the storyline oh no wait he did that already

oh what about planet scanning wait I think he did that 2

oh what about ammo counter wait I think he did that one to

oh the loot system oh wait he did that a couple of days ago
hmmmm he'll find something

Who can forget the time he started a new thread to say ME1 is better than ME2 because of clothing/armor options for your squad members?

He simply wants Mass Effect to be an old school RPG. He has a list with all the things he thinks a game should include to be an old school RPG, and then he complains over everything that is on his list, but isn't in Mass Effect. He could save a lot of time by simply saying it like this:
"I want Mass Effect to strictly adhere to the formula of an old school RPG, and nothing else will make me happy".

[ZennExile]

BellaStrega wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

oooo lets guess what his next rant will be hmmm

the storyline oh no wait he did that already

oh what about planet scanning wait I think he did that 2

oh what about ammo counter wait I think he did that one to

oh the loot system oh wait he did that a couple of days ago
hmmmm he'll find something

Who can forget the time he started a new thread to say ME1 is better than ME2 because of clothing/armor options for your squad members?

See sleep.  Lots of "Ducks" here.

[ZennExile]

Xandurpein wrote...

BellaStrega wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

oooo lets guess what his next rant will be hmmm

the storyline oh no wait he did that already

oh what about planet scanning wait I think he did that 2

oh what about ammo counter wait I think he did that one to

oh the loot system oh wait he did that a couple of days ago
hmmmm he'll find something

Who can forget the time he started a new thread to say ME1 is better than ME2 because of clothing/armor options for your squad members?

He simply wants Mass Effect to be an old school RPG. He has a list with all the things he thinks a game should include to be an old school RPG, and then he complains over everything that is on his list, but isn't in Mass Effect. He could save a lot of time by simply saying it like this:
"I want Mass Effect to strictly adhere to the formula of an old school RPG, and nothing else will make me happy".

That would indeed save time if that had anything at all to do with what I'm saying. 

[SurfaceBeneath]

BellaStrega wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

oooo lets guess what his next rant will be hmmm

the storyline oh no wait he did that already

oh what about planet scanning wait I think he did that 2

oh what about ammo counter wait I think he did that one to

oh the loot system oh wait he did that a couple of days ago
hmmmm he'll find something

Who can forget the time he started a new thread to say ME1 is better than ME2 because of clothing/armor options for your squad members?

Or how about the time he attempted to argue that the Mako's terrible handling was in fact due to realistic reaction to a world's gravity?

Man, it's like he's just not trying any more.

[ZennExile]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

quack... quack  quack?

"Define Psuedo Realistic design intent" for me.  In your own words if you can handle that. 

Modifié par ZennExile, 01 mars 2010 - 08:18 .

[USMCTanker]

ZennExile wrote...
I'll accept this and shut up if you can find a single RPG in the history of Video Games that has no "secret" content or "hidden" items AND follows a linear mission system...

couldnt get to the end of this thread, so i appologize if someone has already done this but:

Diablo 2. an RPG with no secret content or hidden items, and it follows an incredibly linear mission system...

will you shut up now? ive been on these forums for like an hour and you already annoy me...

If you dont like the game, then dont play it...

[Xandurpein]

ZennExile wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

BellaStrega wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

oooo lets guess what his next rant will be hmmm

the storyline oh no wait he did that already

oh what about planet scanning wait I think he did that 2

oh what about ammo counter wait I think he did that one to

oh the loot system oh wait he did that a couple of days ago
hmmmm he'll find something

Who can forget the time he started a new thread to say ME1 is better than ME2 because of clothing/armor options for your squad members?

He simply wants Mass Effect to be an old school RPG. He has a list with all the things he thinks a game should include to be an old school RPG, and then he complains over everything that is on his list, but isn't in Mass Effect. He could save a lot of time by simply saying it like this:
"I want Mass Effect to strictly adhere to the formula of an old school RPG, and nothing else will make me happy".

That would indeed save time if that had anything at all to do with what I'm saying. 

But this is the argument you keep repeating over and over. 'Show me an RPG that doesn't contain...','It's no longer and RPG....'. your arguments seem to always boil down to that Mass Effect 2 is not good because it doesn't adhere to the formula of an Old School RPG.

[SurfaceBeneath]

ZennExile wrote...

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Or how about the time he attempted to argue that the Mako's terrible
handling was in fact due to realistic reaction to a world's gravity?

Man,
it's like he's just not trying any more.

"Define Psuedo Realistic design intent" for me.  In your own words if you can handle that. 

Sir, I am frankly offended that you think so low of my intelligence after all this time that you would actually try to bait me into arguing with you over something.

But for old times sake: Lol@MakoHandlingOnTheMoonTheSameAsItHandlesOnPlanetsWith150%EarthGravityIsRealisticAnything

[ZennExile]

USMCTanker wrote...

ZennExile wrote...
I'll accept this and shut up if you can find a single RPG in the history of Video Games that has no "secret" content or "hidden" items AND follows a linear mission system...

couldnt get to the end of this thread, so i appologize if someone has already done this but:

Diablo 2. an RPG with no secret content or hidden items, and it follows an incredibly linear mission system...

will you shut up now? ive been on these forums for like an hour and you already annoy me...

If you dont like the game, then dont play it...

http://www.d2tomb.com/cow_level.shtml

Will you keep going or just bugger off like a good bridge defender?

edit: oh and "I am Gamer".  I have an addiction...  So try harder or GTFO 

Modifié par ZennExile, 01 mars 2010 - 08:28 .

[Cancermeat]

I think whinning about whinning is just as bad.

[Cancermeat]

I think whinning about whinning is just as bad.

[ZennExile]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Quack quack....

"Define Psuedo Realistic design intent" for me.  In your own words if you can handle that. 

Quack quack huh?  Quack quack dodge /evade quack.

All you had to say was "No sorry I don't know what that means".

[ZennExile]

Cancermeat wrote...

I think whinning about whinning is just as bad.

I think every time you double post someone kicks a kitten through a plate glass window.  And yes I know it's because it lagged for so long you thought you needed to hit the button again (normally like 2 seconds... hurray for ADD)

[USMCTanker]

the cow level was never a secret, if you played in the old school days like I did, it was the only way to level up, and people knew about it as soon as the game was released... anyone who didnt immediately know about the cow level as soon as they started playing was either stupid or just didnt pay attention

[SurfaceBeneath]

ZennExile wrote...

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Quack quack....

"Define Psuedo Realistic design intent" for me.  In your own words if you can handle that. 

Quack quack huh?  Quack quack dodge /evade quack.

All you had to say was "No sorry I don't know what that means".

[Cancermeat]

no i did it just for you.

[BobbyTheI]

Here's my last word, and then I'm done.

I don't usually start threads trying to argue something.  It's just not really my thing.  But if I were to do something like that, my inherent goal in doing that would be one thing:  to have somebody convince me that I'm wrong.  I'm looking for people to present good arguments and refute them if they don't make sense, and concede if they do.

ZennExile does not do this.

There are a lot of people on this forum that have the same opinion as him.  There are a lot of people who don't like ME2, who wish it was more like ME1, who wish it had the deep RPG elements they wanted.  I have no problem with them.  That's their opinion; it's not the same as mine, no biggie.  

There are people who don't like the same characters I do.  Again, that's their right.  I have no problem with them, because that's their opinion.

The problem I have with ZE in particular is that not only is he utterly convinced his opinions are utterly right, not only does he absolutely refuse to concede even a single point to anyone who disagrees with him, but that he does so with an attitude that anyone who disagrees with him is not only wrong, but so utterly stupid and misinformed that they are worthy of nothing less than the lowest of scorn. 

And anyone who calls him out on this attitude, who dares to be annoyed that their difference of opinion makes them "speshul" (oh, the ripping wit) in his mind, is a troll.  I first witnessed this attitude on the Jack thread, where he came on to tell us all how stupid we are for liking Jack, and how he's smart enough to know she's a terrible character.

Never mind that this is all subjective opinion, and that we had the right to like a character if we wanted, even if he didn't.  We were all WRONG, and he was RIGHT.  And no matter how many times people tried to convince them of their opinion. there was no shift on his side. He was still completely right, they were wrong, and that was that.

And when I told the people in the thread to stop bothering, that nothing they said was going to change his opinion in the least, and insisted that people just ignore his posts, I became a troll, because I decided not to play his pointless game.  And then he went to the Thane thread and tried to stir things up there.

This is why I try to tell you people not to bother.  A real argument requires two people who are willing to admit that their opponent has a good point when they do.  ZE will NEVER do this.  NEVER NEVER NEVER.  If you can find me one post, one SINGLE post on this board where ZE has said anything to the effect of "I was wrong," I will give you a shiny trophy, because I'm firmly convinced it doesn't exist.  You would get more mileage picking a random wall in your house and trying to have an argument with it.  You will argue in circles for days, and when people give up and the thread falls out of the top pages, well, he'll just start a new argument, and go through the exact same procedure.

Argue with anybody else around here, and you at least have the hope that maybe they'll take your points into account, that maybe they'll listen to what you're saying and change their opinion.  That maybe, once in a blue moon, they might concede they were wrong.

ZennExile does not do this.  And this is why I wish everybody would stop bothering.

[ZennExile]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Quack quack....

"Define Psuedo Realistic design intent" for me.  In your own words if you can handle that. 

Quack quack huh?  Quack quack dodge /evade quack.

All you had to say was "No sorry I don't know what that means".

Finally a picture troll that doesn't need yer commentary to force sense into it.  (lamen's terms: it makes sense)

[ZennExile]

BobbyTheI wrote...

quack quack... quack... I hate zenn cause it makes me feel good inside.. quack quack... you should too cause it feels good when other people hate what I hate quack quack...

Yeah I hate that Zennexile fellah.  He's always making me think crap through and tricking me into responding like an idiot if I don't.  What a jerk that guy is.