57 réponses à ce sujet

[yummysoap]

Trash talking shouldn't be considered a positive attribute for a reaper. I can just imagine him talking with Shepard.



Shepard: You're just a machine, and machines can be broken.

Harby: YEAH? WELL... I DIDN'T LIKE YOUR SPECIES ANYWAY!



Nothing compared to Sovereign's menace.

[RigAudio]

Sovereign has a wayyyyy cooler voice.

[Biotic_Warlock]

I think harbinger has the better dialogue. Sovereign had the tougher boss battle. HE JUST WOULDNT STOP JUMPIN!

[Dama733]

Sovereign hands down, he actually got things done.



Sure Harbinger used the Collectors to kidnap Human colonies, but he never actually did anything apart from being a minor nuisance in combat.



While Sovereign not only took control of a large amount of the Geth, but its easy to imagine that he was also behind the creation of Sarens Krogen army and the return of the Rachni.



Then there’s the fact that he led the assault that pretty much destroyed the Citadel Fleet himself.





Although on a side note, I cant play through the final battle against Sovereign/Saren in ME1 without imagining Sovereign saying the words “Assuming Direct Control!” when Sovereign takes control of Saren’s Body.

[Burdokva]

The problem with Harbinger is that he's an in-game opponent, even if a "boss" sort of adversary. You can face him head on and beat him, and repeatedly at that. Also, up to a very late point in the story you're not sure if that's a Reaper at all or just the Collector leader - it takes away from his grandeur.



If we judge Harbinger solely by his cut-scenes dialogue he's no less intimidating than Sovereign. There's something unsettling in the way he casually possesses Collector bodies and switches to new ones when they die.



Had we encountered him less (and he wasn't so talkative in fights) he would have been an even better villain than Sovereign.



Sovereign is intimidating mostly by the fact that he's an ominous, almost unknown villain, revealed late in Mass Effect and that you have no way of defeating him, gameplay wise. The only scene where Shepard actually meets Sovereign "face to face" on the Citadel tower just adds up on the realization that you can't handle that huge, powerful thing.



Though, Harbinger has the potential to be a great villain for Mass Effect 3.

[Peavio]

sovereign seemed to be a unstoppable force even in the final battle it took a great deal taking him down, harbringer kept on saying he was all powerful or something along that line but just didnt give the the all powerful feeling like sovereign.

[Nibroc17]

lost lupus wrote...

exatly this is just a repeat of the tried and true
A team sovereigan loosing so they sent in the B team harbinger

i can see it now reaper command:
reaper general 1: sir Sovereign just kicked the bucket where stuck in dark space
reaper general 2: who the hell is Sovereign
RG1: well the bloke writing this couldnt remember the reaper name for the vanguard
RG2: son of a **** well we need a plan B it's to god damn cold out here besides where all pyscho's
if we dont let the fleet wipe out the gaxaly soon it will be civil war!!
RG1: well sir it's going to take awhile to come up with a plan you seewe dont really have what organics call contingence's
RG2: we dont have a couple of months we need a something to happen now! and find out what a contingency is!
RG1: Well sir um harbinger has an idea............
RG2: oh god harbinger? probbly just another of his "aussming direct control" ideas again went real well with the rachni isnt their anybody else?
RG1: no sir where really not as intelligent as we make out
RG2: your sure theirs nobody *RG1 shakes head* alright fine let him in *harbinger walk's in*
HB: sir im really glad your considering my plan......
RG2: whatever lets here it spit it out
HB: well sir we use the modified protheons i call them collectors you see because they coll........
RG2: i dont give a damn what you call them just get to the point
HB: right well i use the collectors to collect millions of humans then melt them down and build a new reaper all in secert of course
RG2: frst off that sounds really gross second humans arnt stupid hell they killed a stronger smarter version of you
HB: well um you see it doesnt matter if the humans find out because....... i'll assume direct control and kill them
RG2: oh really Sovereign tried that with some turian guess what happend it didnt bloody work thats what
HB: whos Sov..........
:RG2 if you finsih that sentence i'll melt you down into a tonka truck *pause* now you were saying
HB: well the collector base is hidden beyond the omega 4 relay so nobody can get through without an IFF and if they do our drones will kill them and ieven if they get through the drones.......
RG2: yes yes whatever just dont underestimate the humans that shepard guys a baddass
HB: thats why i plan to kill him first!
RG2: ok im starting to like this plan......... well as nobody else has a plan your approved how long is this supposed to take
HB: 2 years.. and a bit
RG2: 2 f***ing years your .. look just get it done *pause* and if you F*** this up im going to space you
*2 years later*
RG2: well HB you made a right mess of that one now we have to fly into the milky way great nice going not only did you royal screw the pooch but now shepards back he's got a kick arse ship good work, now answer this one question after that reaper was built what was your plan?
HB: well i figured we could use it to rally the geth against the citidel and lay siege giving this new reaper a chance to lock on and open the giant dark space relay
RG2: oh F*** me get this idiot out of my sight F***ing moron! you didnt even monolog once the entire time you hid like a littl B**** thats what you are a little B**** i can not beleive i agreed to this MotherF****er *pause* RG1 get over here we must prepare for tonight
RG1: what are we going to do tonight?
RG2: the same thing we do every night night RG1 ............. TRY TO TAKE OVER THE GAXALY!!

OMG!! OMG!! Thats F***ING AWESOME!!!! I love the pinky and the brain homage!!!

[spryforadeadguy]

Honestly, I can't think of a moment where I really felt threatened by Harbinger, even after I realised he was a Reaper. Perhaps if he'd been given his chance to deliver a bloody amazing speech or something equally awesome, I'd be more willing to give him a chance. He could very well become such a villain in ME3, but as it stands now, Sovereign (and even Saren) are the more compelling/bad ass foes.

[Axterix]

BadHelmetDay wrote...

We've met two Reapers now. So who wins the battle for being the most badass Reaper in or around the galaxy?
Most Evil Reaper Plot:
Sovereign: Search for clues to open a back door to the Citadel
Harbinger: Kidnap tens of millions of humans and process them into goo

Well, most likely, the reason for building a new Reaper is so that Reaper can trigger the Citadel.  Just Harbinger gets left to clean up Sovereign's failure.

Anyway, personally, felt Sovereign was much more threatening. 

Sovereign had the Geth, before they were changed into a "good, other than a small segment" race.  And even if it was always planned that way, it still feels that way, should have left 'em as the enemy.  And he himself was big and brutal, able to blow up big ships and shrug off fire, just cruise right through a cruiser.  He is a galactic threat.  And he's got some great Lts. in the Matron and Saren, minions who themselves were threats.

Harbinger had 1 Collector ship, a ship that could be hurt by planetary defense cannons and taken out by a single frigate.  And that ship wasn't even a nice shiny scary ship.  No, it was made partially from dirt.  Oh noes, galaxy, here comes Fred Flintstone, galactic conquerer.  Scared yet?  I'm not.  Harbinger's plan could have been swatted aside by parking a few ships with up to date weaponry at the Omega 4 relay.  He has one Lt, who doesn't really have a personality.  For a bit, you think he might have a personality consisting of taunting Shepard for some reason, but nope, that's not him.

Think Sovereign also has the benefit of feeling more important to the game he is in.  Between the Council and Sovereign's plans, well, that's what drives ME 1, adds a lot of emotional investment.  For ME 2?  Seems like it is more about recruiting all your people than actually dealing with this threat.  Less party members, more time invested on the enemy would have helped a ton.

Anyway, Sovereign wins by a landslide for me.  Harbinger just felt absent.

[RemingtonArms]

Even after all the damage that Sovereign did to the Citadel, I'd still give the advantage to Harbinger. After all, his actions did kill Shepard. Without getting his hands (or whatever) dirty.



Not to mention that 'ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL" thing he does.

[Axterix]

RemingtonArms wrote...

Even after all the damage that Sovereign did to the Citadel, I'd still give the advantage to Harbinger. After all, his actions did kill Shepard. Without getting his hands (or whatever) dirty.

Sure, he killed us mostly dead.  And then we got better.  And he blew up our ship.  But we got it back and it too was better.

Crazy as it may seem, but the Saren + Sovereign duo calling me a liar, killing some spectre I barely knew, and failing to take out a human colony invested me a lot more than Harbinger killing me and successfully taking out several human colonies.

And, of course, Fred Flintstone ship.  Take it to the ship wash, get that dirt removed so you'll look scary.  At the very least, upgrade it to some wicked looking crystals or something.

Modifié par Axterix, 13 mars 2010 - 10:48 .

[gsigman]

 For me Harbinger has the best voice, but Sovereign had the more memorable lines.  This is primarily because we heard Sovereign in a conversation where he was totally bad-ass instead of Harbinger's one liners.

So i think Sovereign is currently more bad-ass, although Harbinger has the better voice.  I think in ME3 Harbinger will top Sovereign in the bad-ass department, and hopefully we'll be able to interact with him in an epic conversation.

Modifié par gsigman, 25 juillet 2010 - 02:02 .

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

When you get to speak with Sovereign on Virmire, and Joker tells you that he is turning around I literally said out loud "holy s*** I'm f****d."

[Nightwriter]

Sovereign, definitely.

We actually get to talk to Sovereign. That's a big factor. His reveal in that conversation was a "wow" moment.

Sovereign is a physical villain, we see him, we engage him, we defeat him. We feel his presence in the game. You really get a sense of Sovereign's power when he attacks the Citadel.

Harbinger is nothing but another trooper on the battlefield who glows. And trash talks. He's nothing. He's boring. We interact with him only peripherally in the game.

[kraidy1117]

They both suck, but you can't compare them yet because Harbinger is still alive, thus there is more with him, Sovereign's tale is done, he blew up.

Modifié par kraidy1117, 24 juillet 2010 - 12:56 .

[Count Viceroy]

We haven't seen the much of harbinger yet.
The reason why most people don't feel as threatened by harbinger is that he was made to appear as the collector general through out the game, and to keep up the charade until his big reveal at the end his power is toned down to appear as a powerful collector, nothing else. There's also only so much he can do through mind control as well. Though I do think he deserves some credit.Think about it, he's fiddling with the minds of another race like they were puppets all the way from outside the galaxy itself.

I'm confident he'll be a badass in ME3.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 24 juillet 2010 - 01:14 .

[Lyrandori]

To me Sovereign was way more intimidating and menacing than Harbinger is in ME2, but maybe Harbinger will reveal its true potential in ME3 and I may change my mind, but so far Sovereign wins on all fronts.

[Sparda Stonerule]

Sovereign underestimated Shepard. He was almost completely disinterested in whatever Shepard was doing. Sovereign knew Shepard was on Saren's heels and basically ignored that. Despite all of the things happening Sovereign goes ahead and assaults the citadel anyway, causing his fleet and himself to be destroyed. Harbinger actually seems curious about Shepard. It seems like he wants Shepard's body for study, and it doesn't seem like he's underestimating him as much as Sovereign did.



An enemy that is indifferent about me is less interesting and intimidating than one that wants to collect me. Sovereign may have had cool lines, but they rang extremely hollow. Not to mention Shepard never resorted to insults against Sovereign, yet the "immortal" reaper spent the majority of the conversation flinging lame insults. Then the moment Shepard says that they can be broken Sovereign hangs up on you. At least Harbinger tries to keep the pressure on Shepard.



In the end neither of them scare me simply because of Shepard's attitude towards them. However Harbinger gets more respect from me since he wasn't ignoring me, and he didn't hang up on me just because I told him I could break him, like a certain other Reaper. Hell no matter how many minions I killed of his, he just kept at it and kept pushing his goal. I just like Harbinger better.

[Sledge454]

Keltoris wrote...

Sovereign is more menacing. Harbinger is more interesting.

lost lupus wrote...

RG2: the same thing we do every night night RG1 ............. TRY TO TAKE OVER THE GALAXY!!

They're Pinky, Pinky and the Brain, Brain, Brain, Brain, Brain, Brain, Brain, Brain!

But where are we going to find an open tattoo parlor at this time of night?

Modifié par Sledge454, 24 juillet 2010 - 01:41 .

[Nightwriter]

I always thought Sovereign and Harbinger's names should've been reversed for us.

Sovereign, as the vanguard of the Reapers, should've been named "Harbinger".

Harbinger, as the apparent leader and big baddy of the Reapers, should be called "Sovereign". It would at least make me not feel like an emperor got switched for an emissary, or something.

[Thalorin1919]

Harbinger has one of the best villian lines I have ever heard in any video game though at the end sequence of Mass Effect 2 when Shepard is escaping the Collector Base.



"Your species has the attention of those infinitely your greater."



I'm sorry, but that is such a great line. Other then that, I think Sovereign is the more badass Reaper, probably because we got to actually talk to him I guess.

[NanQuan]

For me the final boss is kinda the deciding factor. While you don't technically fight either personally, you do fight one of their "agents." Saren (even if you skip the first part) is harder than the human reaper in my book. Saren keeps hopping around like a mofo and it's a pain to catch him. Meanwhile I can leisurely sip wine and blast the human reaper to hell while not taking a lick of damage. So as a villain and difficulty go I think Sovereign wins.

[Nightwriter]

Makes you wonder. If Saren named Sovereign, who named Harbinger? And what's Harbinger's real name?

Where did the name Harbinger come from, anyway? It just appears in your Codex. Like Sovereign it's a title name so I'm assuming it's not his actual name and he has a real one like Nazara.

I bet it's George. No, Muhammad! Of course. Yes, I will bet my Rocky and Bullwinkle nesting doll it's Muhammad.

[NephilimNexus]

Sovereign was a James Bond villain as envisioned by H.P. Lovecraft & William Gibson.



Harbinger was just the Reaper's version of Admiral Hackett.