64 réponses à ce sujet

[beancounter501]

Well, if I went a strength rogue I would still use light armor. Still limit sustains. Probably a straight Duelist Rogue. More interested in Pinpoint strike so I do not have to waste time trying to flank. But I will agree the lack of deathblow is painful. Still, I really hate the idea that I have to turn the Rogue to some auto attack bot due to stamina limits. Just sitting there trying to flank and auto attacking seems really - boring. Especially after playing a two hand warrior and a mage.



Auto-Attack = Auto Boring

[Random70]

beancounter501 wrote...

Well, if I went a strength rogue I would still use light armor. Still limit sustains. Probably a straight Duelist Rogue. More interested in Pinpoint strike so I do not have to waste time trying to flank. But I will agree the lack of deathblow is painful. Still, I really hate the idea that I have to turn the Rogue to some auto attack bot due to stamina limits. Just sitting there trying to flank and auto attacking seems really - boring. Especially after playing a two hand warrior and a mage.

Auto-Attack = Auto Boring

Several points...
1) Most of that paragraph applies to rogues in general, whether str, dex, cun. If you really want to spam talents, maybe look at DW warrior instead (DEX / Dagger ofc!)

2) As to str vs. dex comparison, it boils down to this...
 A) DPS: Coin flip
  ATT rating: Coin flip
 C) DEF rating: Advantage DEX and it's not even close

3) I wouldn't count too heavily on Pinpoint Strike as you can't get it 'till clvl 16, it has a high casting cost and a reeeaaally long cooldown. Late game, against a tough boss I may throw a MoD + PS combo but 99% of the time PS is going to be sitting on the shelf due to the reasons listed.

4) The good news is that flanking is not necessary. Your ATT score is sufficient to hit consistently from any angle and with Coup de Grace you can initiate backstabs (again, from any angle) with Dirty Fighting, Riposte, Paralyze runes and poisons. Not to mention other party members with Mind Blast, Scattershot, Dread Howl, etc.

5) Early game stamina will be tight, especially with Duelling/Momentum running...but that will change fast. In addition to level ups, you get +20 from the Fade, +25 from Spellward, and +30 from Honnleath, Anduril, Key. Felon, Anduril and Wicked Oath (if you got it) each grant +1 stam regen. You can also run through the Assassin line to grab Feast of the Fallen - though I'm uncertain if it has any functionality issues the way Deathblow used to. Even with all this, will you be able to spam talents like a warrior? No, but you won't be an auto-attack bot either.

Modifié par Random70, 07 mars 2010 - 09:13 .

[soteria]

beancounter501 wrote...

Well, if I went a strength rogue I would still use light armor. Still limit sustains. Probably a straight Duelist Rogue. More interested in Pinpoint strike so I do not have to waste time trying to flank. But I will agree the lack of deathblow is painful. Still, I really hate the idea that I have to turn the Rogue to some auto attack bot due to stamina limits. Just sitting there trying to flank and auto attacking seems really - boring. Especially after playing a two hand warrior and a mage.

Auto-Attack = Auto Boring

I don't find it boring at all.  Constantly moving in combat for better positioning would keep it interesting even if Feast of the Fallen didn't give enough stamina to use specials fairly often--provided you're backstabbing and not trying to play a warrior.  The higher frequency of dagger attacks also helps ensure you get that killing blow.

Don't knock it till you try it.

[sajahVarel]

If you are going all str with a rogue, then go all the way, don't stop half way, I mean why bother with a DW str with toothpicks Oo ? go full str/cun (actually enough str to wear a 2H hammer, like gorim's chasind crusher ^^), take assassin (all 4 talents), mark the guy, use a swift balm, some stun poison, deadly strike and go backstab >.> (omg I have to try that one...).

[Timortis]

I agree with everything Random said.

[beancounter501]

Helpful post there Random & Soteria. The Feast of the Fallen looks interesting. It gives 5* level * critter scaling(.75 white/1 for yellow) stamina back when the killing blow is a backstab. I will defintely try that out.



Man, so talents to choose. I want level 4 stealth for sure, Lethality for the critical bonus, Coup De Grace, Riposte, Momentum, the assain line and dueling line. Whew, thats a lot.



Just curious, how early do you boost stealth? Is it really useful to max stealth early? Stealthing seems fun.

[soteria]

For my most recent rogue, I picked up Momentum and Combat Stealth asap, followed by Lethality and Coup de Grace. Riposte is handy, but is not as reliable or fast as Dirty Fighting, so I don't put high priority on that.

[RavenousBear]

Combat stealth will work on most enemies except bosses. I would take Lethality, Coup De Grace, and Momentum before I reach combat stealth.

[Random70]

beancounter501 wrote...
Man, so talents to choose. I want level 4 stealth for sure, Lethality for the critical bonus, Coup De Grace, Riposte, Momentum, the assain line and dueling line. Whew, thats a lot.

Just curious, how early do you boost stealth? Is it really useful to max stealth early? Stealthing seems fun.

You're going party mode, yes? Then Combat Stealth is important...but not critically so. You can use it to scout for traps or to get the drop on that mage but in this instance I find it most useful for interruption. You see a 'Shield Pummel' or 'Ram' floatie appear then simply tap the Stealth button and their attack is blown. In a party scenario, I'd call Master Stealth purely optional.

As to the rest, get Finesse and Momentum ASAP. Take Duelling @ 7 and Coup de Grace @ 8. The next three goals after that are Riposte, Lethality and Combat Stealth - your pick. And don't forget Keen Defense @ 14

[beancounter501]

Cool, thanks. I actually want to hurry up and finish my caster build to give it a play! At least I am resisting the urge to restart. I am such a chronic restarter! When I first got the game I must have rotated between S&S, Two Hand & Dual weld warriors about 10 times. LOL. Play through lothering, quit and restart.

[jsachun]

Strength & Dex rogue recently Built.

Not bad at nightmare, don't you think. Sure she doesn't do all that much damage in a single hit, but she is much more versatile.

Modifié par jsachun, 10 mars 2010 - 11:18 .

[Haplose]

beancounter501 wrote...

Helpful post there Random & Soteria. The Feast of the Fallen looks interesting. It gives 5* level * critter scaling(.75 white/1 for yellow) stamina back when the killing blow is a backstab. I will defintely try that out.

Man, so talents to choose. I want level 4 stealth for sure, Lethality for the critical bonus, Coup De Grace, Riposte, Momentum, the assain line and dueling line. Whew, thats a lot.

Just curious, how early do you boost stealth? Is it really useful to max stealth early? Stealthing seems fun.

This.

With Feast of the Fallen you can play your Rogue very actively. Just make sure the finishing hits are qualified as backstabs.
With Coup-de-Grace it is very easy and requires very little positioning (take advantage of Dirty Fighting, Riposte and any crowd control from other party members, especialy casters - but 2H Sweep, Holy Smite and other knocking/stunning skills work great too).

The Talent starvation is a problem for sure. The only weakness of Rogue-characters.

In a party setting, with a Taunt tank, 1st level of Stelth for scouting and trap disarming is mostly enough. You're never in any danger in a party anyway. Pick the rest once you have the other good Talents covered.
Coup-de-Grace is one of the most important ones. When going mostly Dex, you can leave Lethality for late-game, it's not really necessary if your Cunning and Strenght levels are 10-20 points apart. In DW tree Momentum is of course awesome. DW Finesse isalso good to have early. For some mobs (immune to backstabs) I've found Dual Striking good and late-game it's a great combo with Pinpoint Strikes. Riposte helps you backstab with CdG = Good.

[Snoopies]

Finnegone wrote...


See Discobird's excellent post and analysis on this subject for more details:  http://social.biowar...66/index/223777

In brief, the advantages of the various builds are:

1) Dexterity: very high attack and defense ratings; nigh unhittable. Reliably dishes out decent enough damage with daggers, but this build really shines on the defensive end of the spectrum - so much so that the game becomes somewhat boring at the end because most enemies stop being a threat (beware mages, though)

2) Strength: high attack rating, able to wield all weapons and use all armor. With backstabbing, this becomes a higher single-target DPSer than the Warrior, but lacks their staying power (less health) and some of their fun factor (less stamina, so fewer active abilities). All in all, solid main damage dealer with some nice utility

3) Cunning: highest damage potential, lowest attack rating and defense. This is very much the glass cannon build; it benefits from extreme damage potential (especially when paired with Assassin and Bard specs), but (in my experience) can be very frustrating to play, as in the beginning you're somewhat gimped until you get lethality, and at the end you really need to flank enemies all the time to ensure that you can reliably hit. With the right equipment (Felon's Coat and Rose's Thorn), and the right companions, though, this build becomes very powerful. 

Discobird research whilst great does have its limitations it calculated damage using the tainted blade and exploit weakness.  With the build that Disco uses tainted blade will not be up that long without major healing, as all att points go into cunning & dex not Con.  And exploit weakness can only be used on one target at a time.  Both of these add an additional (estimated) 20 points in dmg.

Also due to lack of information the higher attack rate is not factored into the calculation.

Str builds have a lot more equipment options, +50 stamina boots helping one of the bigger disadvantages. 

[Haplose]

Exploit Weakness works always when you backstab.
Perhaps you confuse it with the Mark of the Assasin (and I'm not sure if this one is even Cunning based).


The impact of higher attack rate is pretty much the only point I agree with - and it is pretty major. So I prefer high Dex myself. Best Attack Rate and Defence with damage comparable to Strength based - best of 3 worlds

Modifié par Haplose, 18 mars 2010 - 07:12 .

[Snoopies]

Haplose wrote...

Exploit Weakness works always when you backstab.
Perhaps you confuse it with the Mark of the Assasin (and I'm not sure if this one is even Cunning based).


The impact of higher attack rate is pretty much the only point I agree with - and it is pretty major. So I prefer high Dex myself. Best Attack Rate and Defence with damage comparable to Strength based - best of 3 worlds

Yeah your right, exploit weakness does work all the time.  but still stands that tainted blood adds more damage to cunning rogues.  Dex is probably the way to go but a higher strength also has several advantages.