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Now that the infatuation is over...


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#1
Godeshus

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I'm going to start making random and annoying criticisms of the game storyline.

First off, I could write paragraph after paragraph about the awesomeness of this game, but I'll sum it up in 5 words:

This game is f***ing incredible! 

Now that I've played through a few times and tried out all sorts of builds, a few things come up that just don't make any sense. None of these things take away from how awesome the game is.

1-The story.

Nothing like I expected. In ME1 you spend the entire time ignoring your superiors and defying the council in order to bring light to the Reaper plot, which no one believes. The result of no one believing you was that you managed to finally uncover the plot, and barely save the alliance and citadel in an epic battle, while leaving the entire council to its much deserved fate. This mostly could have been avoided if the entire alliance would have devoted resources to the cause, instead of sending a troublesome rookie Spectre into deep space with a "Now that your're all growed up, go play in the sandbox".

After all that happens and everyone cheers and thinks you're a god and the savior of the known universe, you say "Hey, stop partying everyone, Sovereign was just an emissary. There's a whole ARMY of reapers out there trying desperately to wipe out all life in our galaxy! We gotta do something about this!"

So the newly appointed human council, and the alliance in general, says "Right. An army of Reapers. Ok, buddy. Stop smoking the Torfan weed and go kill some geth or something.

So, like a good soldier, you go searching for a few rogue geth and get yourself killed by a bunch of bugs flying a giant space rock, only to be resurrected and under the employ of one of the universe's most atrocious men, The illusive man, or Hitler, if you will.  I mean, the only thing nastier than this guy is the Reapers themselves.

2-Reunion with Ashley or Kaiden.

Ashley: Why didn't you try contacting me?
Shepard: I was dead.
Ashley: That's as may be, but the least you could have done was call.
Shepard: What did I ever see in this crazy b***h!? :blink: Oh, right...there was that thing she did with her tongue...and that other thing:devil:

3-Tali's trial.

Am I the only one that thought that this loyalty mission was a joke? Along side Shepard, she saved her people from galactic conquest at the hands of entities who want to turn all organic life into a Big Gulp of grey sludge. She accomplished a near impossible mission, with Shepard's help again, to discover the fate of a star. All this in order to help and save her own people. Meanwhile, one ship gets taken over by geth, so the Quarians do a little research and...

Quarian 1: "Hey, look at this. Tali mailed her dad a few legs. Lets put her on trial and exile her for ever, on penalty of death if ever she returns

All other Quarians: "Good idea".

So, instead of assembling a task force and storming the infected ship to wipe out all geth, and figure out what the hell this engineer was doing with all these Geth parts he's been receiving over the past 10 years, they decide to ignore the problem and send Tali a message telling her she's on trial, and that she should show up at her convenience so that they can tell her to go away.

Well, I'm glad I got that out of my system. It's been irking be for a while. Yes, it's mindless complaining, I know it. Some may even suggest that It is blasphemy, but what are you gonna do? It is my duty as a human being to complain uselessly. 

So, you guys have any story based beefs? Am I the only one, am I taking it too far? Before you guys start flaming and saying:

"It's a video game, don't be so serious".

I know it's a videogame, One that I've enjoyed more than any game since HL2, I think. Which is why it irks me when these turns of story make me go wtf?

-Godeshus

#2
wolfstanus

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Actualy the Trail was never about Tali... Its was actually about going to war or not going to war with the geth. She just got cought in the middle of it and used in the middle of a political game.

#3
Amethyst Deceiver

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you know whats even worse?



if you pick "save the council" (which i am now convinced is 'non-canon' decision) they say "whoa thanks shep, you risked people to save us! thanks for dealing with saren and the REAPER sovreign. we are in your debt" mind you the turian spat out the admittance of the reaper as sovreign verbatim.



2 years pass...



"ah yes 'reapers' we have dismissed that claim"



i guess we missed something important in those 2 years

#4
Computron2000

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Yes we missed that it became a political liability to start spouting about galactic extinction by alien flying machines.



I'm sure many people would vote for a candidate whose views included the Somalians are controlled by a alien being when they start packing advanced tech. Or we could vote for the freaky guy who wants to press for a global control and accounting system of technology and miltary exports.

#5
Nightwriter

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Ah, I see, Computron. Stupidity is politically advantageous.

Well, that makes it all right then. Posted Image

Modifié par Nightwriter, 01 mars 2010 - 09:28 .


#6
Amethyst Deceiver

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Computron2000 wrote...

Yes we missed that it became a political liability to start spouting about galactic extinction by alien flying machines.

I'm sure many people would vote for a candidate whose views included the Somalians are controlled by a alien being when they start packing advanced tech. Or we could vote for the freaky guy who wants to press for a global control and accounting system of technology and miltary exports.

its one thing to delude the public about the legitimacy of the reapers.

but its another thing entirely to backtrack 180 degrees in a private meeting with the one person who actually met and killed one of them.

it doesnt make ANY sense whatsoever. if the council wants to hide or cover up the reapers from the public, thats fine and understandable, but dont spout this delusional bull**** to shepard when they so humbly admitted it at the end of ME1.

if it went something like "yeah, the reapers... well we are going to reinstate your spectre status and you are free to go about your quest to find a way to stop them but you have to understand we cant officially support you due to the mass panic it would cause in the public"

they would be admitting the reapers are real to you, but are hiding it from the public. totally understandable.

but no...

Modifié par Amethyst Deceiver, 01 mars 2010 - 09:31 .


#7
Louis deGuerre

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The worst bit in the game for me was this :



Posted Image

#8
Nightwriter

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Amethyst Deceiver wrote...

its one thing to delude the public about the legitimacy of the reapers.

but its another thing entirely to backtrack 180 degrees in a private meeting with the one person who actually met and killed one of them.

it doesnt make ANY sense whatsoever. if the council wants to hide or cover up the reapers from the public, thats fine and understandable, but dont spout this delusional bull**** to shepard when they so humbly admitted it at the end of ME1.

if it went something like "yeah, the reapers... well we are going to reinstate your spectre status and you are free to go about your quest to find a way to stop them but you have to understand we cant officially support you due to the mass panic it would cause in the public"

they would be admitting the reapers are real to you, but are hiding it from the public. totally understandable.

but no...


It's almost as if the IQ of the entire galaxy will begin to deteriorate if Shepard isn't right there to monitor it.

#9
FlintlockJazz

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Louis deGuerre wrote...

The worst bit in the game for me was this :

Posted Image


So true...so true...

#10
Amethyst Deceiver

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the sole-survivor continuity error really irked me as well.

especially when you get hate mail from toombs and you cant do anything about it. in ME1 i shot the scientist myself so that toombs might get some closure and he wont get in trouble for it... but in ME2 they forced me to look like a hypocritical ass

one line of dialog is supposed to explain this away be good enough?

"sorry shepard, that was the other cerberus, not us"

i dont give a ****. im not buying it

Modifié par Amethyst Deceiver, 01 mars 2010 - 09:47 .


#11
Ultai

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Amethyst Deceiver wrote...

the sole-survivor continuity error really irked me as well.

especially when you get hate mail from toombs and you cant do anything about it. in ME1 i shot the scientist myself so that toombs might get some closure and he wont get in trouble for it... but in ME2 they forced me to look like a hypocritical ass

one line of dialog is supposed to explain this away be good enough?

"sorry shepard, that was the other cerberus, not us"

i dont give a ****. im not buying it


I was a war hero when I did that and I told him to let the scientist face trial, and I got hate mail from him as well since the scientist got immunity from prosecution in return for ratting on Cerberus which I heard in a news report...guess you can't please him I guess

#12
SimonTheFrog

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FlintlockJazz wrote...


at

Louis deGuerre wrote...

The worst bit in the game for me was this :

Posted Image


So true...so true...


Hehe... i just replayed the side missions of ME1, complete with the rachni stuff and all. It's just silly...

@ Topic. I agree that the trial is a bit weird. I love the atmosphere in that mission and i can't get enough Quarian's to chat with, Reegar and all... but the whole thing is just... well weird. What trial is that where you hear about what you are accused off during the trial itself??? And then they say "oh, never mind" after Shep shouts about a little. It's sloppily written, even if we all agree that the trial had this political undertone. And even so, why not have an admiral board meeting to discuss going to war?? It's not like you necessarily need a trial to meet your buddies... But anyway, there are quite a bunch of rather silly plot developments, which could have been avoided in my humble opinion, but we gotta live with it it seems

Modifié par SimonTheFrog, 01 mars 2010 - 09:58 .


#13
Computron2000

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Amethyst Deceiver wrote...
its one thing to delude the public about the legitimacy of the reapers.

but its another thing entirely to backtrack 180 degrees in a private meeting with the one person who actually met and killed one of them.


To get what they are thinking, remember what the asari said "We believe that YOU believe the Reapers are true"

So basically after the immense scare and overflowing gratitude they have IMMEDIATELY after saving them, they stopped, took stock then considered you a nutcase. After Shepard died, no one high profile was there to continously needle the Council so of course forgetting about the nutcase would be the most convienent  method.


A lot of people miss the part that the council almost died and was rescued. People have a tendency to agree with people who rescue them (at least for a little while until contempt by familiarity kicks in)

#14
Nozybidaj

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Amethyst Deceiver wrote...

the sole-survivor continuity error really irked me as well.

especially when you get hate mail from toombs and you cant do anything about it. in ME1 i shot the scientist myself so that toombs might get some closure and he wont get in trouble for it... but in ME2 they forced me to look like a hypocritical ass

one line of dialog is supposed to explain this away be good enough?

"sorry shepard, that was the other cerberus, not us"

i dont give a ****. im not buying it


Agreed, it is one thing to "force" Shepard into working with Cerberus, it is quite another to do so in a way that makes Shep look as spineless as possible.  At least give us dialogue options to force TIM to make excuses for it so we then get an option to tell him to stuff it and that our "arrangement" only lasts as long as it takes to wipe out the Collector threat.

#15
Randy1012

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Louis deGuerre wrote...

The worst bit in the game for me was this :

Posted Image

Amen, brother. With the default Shepard being Earthborn/Sole Survivor, this was a major WTF moment. Just sloppy.

#16
Nightwriter

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Computron2000 wrote...

Amethyst Deceiver wrote...
its one thing to delude the public about the legitimacy of the reapers.

but its another thing entirely to backtrack 180 degrees in a private meeting with the one person who actually met and killed one of them.


To get what they are thinking, remember what the asari said "We believe that YOU believe the Reapers are true"

So basically after the immense scare and overflowing gratitude they have IMMEDIATELY after saving them, they stopped, took stock then considered you a nutcase. After Shepard died, no one high profile was there to continously needle the Council so of course forgetting about the nutcase would be the most convienent  method.


A lot of people miss the part that the council almost died and was rescued. People have a tendency to agree with people who rescue them (at least for a little while until contempt by familiarity kicks in)


Oh, I didn't miss it. It just seems like a weak argument to me on their part - that they were just "flustered". It is hard for me, imagining the esteemed, professional, duty bound members of the Council feeling the need to agree with anyone just because they had been rescued.

Yes, they have been rescued, but as the leaders of the galaxy, would they let gratitude color judgment? Endorsing the existence of the Reapers is a heavy thing, would they have done so lightly? Only to take it back?

It feels more like a 180.

#17
Mox Ruuga

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Randy1083 wrote...

Louis deGuerre wrote...

The worst bit in the game for me was this :

Posted Image

Amen, brother. With the default Shepard being Earthborn/Sole Survivor, this was a major WTF moment. Just sloppy.


Seriously.

They invest time and resources in giving Helena Blake and Fist(!) cameos, of all people... And forget about investing into Shepard's character. How many references were there to Shep's various backgrounds in ME2? One for personal history and one for service record? And even those were newsreports and emails.

#18
Godeshus

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I can't remember a Bioware game that didn't have a trial.



In ME2, it seemed like the game was mostly fleshed out and someone said "Hey, we forgot the trial. Where should we put that?"



To which someone replied "I don't know, put Tali on trial or something". The next thing you know, Tali's on trial, and no one, not even the devs, have the faintest clue what it's doing there.

#19
FlintlockJazz

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Nightwriter wrote...

It feels more like a 180.


Welcome to politics 101!  Why do you think the world is so fecked?

Modifié par FlintlockJazz, 01 mars 2010 - 10:16 .


#20
Computron2000

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Nightwriter wrote...
Endorsing the existence of the Reapers is a heavy thing, would they have done so lightly? Only to take it back?


Thats exactly what they did. There was only the 3 of them, anderson and udina. Anderson believes you, Udina thinks you're a violent stupid person. So later they send you to track down Geth which meshes with their line of Sovereign = Geth ship exactly and they sideline Anderson.

Fortunately for them you die.

No one is there to question them when they just proclaim "reapers are a myth" which is basically a backtrack but with the only credible and popular witness (you) dead. Anderson probably did protest but what effect would that have done.

#21
Amethyst Deceiver

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Ultai wrote...

Amethyst Deceiver wrote...

the sole-survivor continuity error really irked me as well.

especially when you get hate mail from toombs and you cant do anything about it. in ME1 i shot the scientist myself so that toombs might get some closure and he wont get in trouble for it... but in ME2 they forced me to look like a hypocritical ass

one line of dialog is supposed to explain this away be good enough?

"sorry shepard, that was the other cerberus, not us"

i dont give a ****. im not buying it


I was a war hero when I did that and I told him to let the scientist face trial, and I got hate mail from him as well since the scientist got immunity from prosecution in return for ratting on Cerberus which I heard in a news report...guess you can't please him I guess


in the context of the sole-survivor backstory it was more important.

toombs was one of your squad mates on akuze when a thresher maw killed everyone. for a long time you believed that you were the only one to survive but later you find out toombs also survived and he cracked under the PTSD strain. you are sent over to confront him to diffuse the situation (he is killing scientists). over the course of the game and as well as in this mission you learn that cerberus was behind the attack on akuze and was responsible for toombs condition.

in my game i chose to sympathize with toombs. he recognized me and trusted me enough that i shot the scientist myself so that he would feel closure about the horrible incident while taking all the responsibility of the killing (but since i was spectre i knew nothing was gonna happen to me). this was one of the more powerful moments in ME1 for me.

fast forward 2 years, this isnt even mentioned. and its just conveniently explained away with one dialog line "that was the other guys"

so im my game according to my background and choices, i should have been able to at least defend my/toombs honor against cerberus regardless if it was "those other guys".

but instead the game forced me into looking like a complacent fool

Modifié par Amethyst Deceiver, 01 mars 2010 - 10:25 .


#22
Nightwriter

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FlintlockJazz wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

It feels more like a 180.


Welcome to politics 101!  Why do you think the world is so fecked?


Exactly. They weren't just agreeing because they were flustered and grateful about just being rescued.

They were being your average two-faced politicians.

Though really, I expected more from the Council. They really did seem to have a sense of duty, to believe in what the Council stood for. In Revelation they even seemed somewhat altruistic. Savvy, but altruistic.

#23
wolfstanus

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FlintlockJazz wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

It feels more like a 180.


Welcome to politics 101!  Why do you think the world is so fecked?

Posted Image

Modifié par wolfstanus, 01 mars 2010 - 10:29 .


#24
Randy1012

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wolfstanus wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

It feels more like a 180.


Welcome to politics 101!  Why do you think the world is so fecked?

Posted Image

So...the world is fecked because of Ugly Shepard?

#25
Amethyst Deceiver

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Computron2000 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
Endorsing the existence of the Reapers is a heavy thing, would they have done so lightly? Only to take it back?


Thats exactly what they did. There was only the 3 of them, anderson and udina. Anderson believes you, Udina thinks you're a violent stupid person. So later they send you to track down Geth which meshes with their line of Sovereign = Geth ship exactly and they sideline Anderson.

Fortunately for them you die.

No one is there to question them when they just proclaim "reapers are a myth" which is basically a backtrack but with the only credible and popular witness (you) dead. Anderson probably did protest but what effect would that have done.

...and what an incredibly boring cliche/archetype for the council to be made into your typical bull**** politicians, when so much more could have been done, given the events of ME1's aftermath.

i swear to god as soon as that turian did the reaper finger quotes thing, i literally said out loud "this s*** again?"

Modifié par Amethyst Deceiver, 01 mars 2010 - 10:38 .