86 réponses à ce sujet

[Nozybidaj]

Nightwriter wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

It feels more like a 180.

Welcome to politics 101!  Why do you think the world is so fecked?

Exactly. They weren't just agreeing because they were flustered and grateful about just being rescued.

They were being your average two-faced politicians.

Though really, I expected more from the Council. They really did seem to have a sense of duty, to believe in what the Council stood for. In Revelation they even seemed somewhat altruistic. Savvy, but altruistic.

I know it is "cool" to play off politicians as a bunch of self absobred nobodies with only the slightest of brain wave activity, but that simply isn't the case (most of the time).

Speaking about the Council specifically these are three individuals that have risen to a position to represent their entire race on a galactic scale.  These aren't stupid people, these aren't people who can't see something when it is literally right in front of their faces.

Their relucatance in ME1 to believe Shepard was, well, believable.  You had no proof, they couldn't risk starting a war with the Terminus systems based on, as Shepard put it, a bad dream.  I think seeing the the giant hyper advanced warship attacking the Citadel and wiping out most of the galactic fleets might have made an impression though.

The evidence being "removed" is just a story convience to not make the rest of it fall apart.  If we are to believe the end of ME2, what happened to whatever creature was inside Sovereign that was used to create him?  Am I supposed to believe a keeper just dragged this massive creature off somewhere and shoved it in a garbage can without anyone seeing? <_<

It would have made much more sense for the Council to believe you while at the same time keeping the public in the dark about it.  The only reason they don't is the writers felt you needed to be "left without any options" to make the story work.  I would have prefered to see the Council look at your connection with Cerberus as an opportunity, give you their own secret mission to spy on Cerberus while you face this new Reaper threat.  It would have made a lot more sense all around without sacrificing the direction the writers wanted to force you in, but also didn't make the Council out to be willfully stupid.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Nightwriter wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

It feels more like a 180.

Welcome to politics 101!  Why do you think the world is so fecked?

Exactly. They weren't just agreeing because they were flustered and grateful about just being rescued.

They were being your average two-faced politicians.

Though really, I expected more from the Council. They really did seem to have a sense of duty, to believe in what the Council stood for. In Revelation they even seemed somewhat altruistic. Savvy, but altruistic.

The Council has not been historically altruistic.

"Hey look, we're losing to the Rachni. Lets give this race of notoriously strong, homocidally violent, and extremely quick breeding lizard camels ships and space nukes so that we can throw their bodies at the enemy and defeat them through attrition."

"What do you mean that race we just gave space nukes went to war with us? Well screw them, lets cripple inflict them all with a horrible plague that will culturally ravage their entire race for generations."

"What's that Quarians, respected members of the galactic community? Your race just accidentally unleashed a race of genocidal robots that threatens to drive your race to extinction? Well... it is awfully far away... how about we just stop all diplomatic conversations with your race and exile you from any and all decisions. That'll teach you to accidentally create sentient AIs again."

I mean, especially with the Quarian situation, the Council's attitude concerning non-Asari, Turian, and Salarians (and Humans) seeems pretty reprehensible.

[Computron2000]

Amethyst Deceiver wrote...
...and what an incredibly boring cliche/archetype for the council to be made into your typical bull**** politicians, when so much more could have been done, given the events of ME1's aftermath.

*shrug* There a million possible ways to write a story but only 1 way to write it.

They had to pick a choice and decide on how they wanted to do it. Also they had to close off the path of you getting with the Alliance/Council instead of Cerberus because to do both would have cost very much more than their budget, not to mention having to change the dossiers you received and thus the teammates acquired.

Lots of people know about bull**** politicians (which makes it doubly sad when a non-bull**** politician gets whacked) so why waste extra effort for no actual reward. Use the sterotype and you're good to go

[SurfaceBeneath]

Nozybidaj wrote...
The evidence being "removed" is just a story convience to not make the rest of it fall apart.  If we are to believe the end of ME2, what happened to whatever creature was inside Sovereign that was used to create him?  Am I supposed to believe a keeper just dragged this massive creature off somewhere and shoved it in a garbage can without anyone seeing? <_<

Keepers didn't remove the evidence. Cerberus did.

Where do you think they came up with the technology for the drive core in the Normandy SR-2? The Drive core of the first game was supposed to be the same as what would have powered a dreadnaught class warship, and somehow Cerberus, in two years, comes up with something twice as large?

[FlintlockJazz]

Randy1083 wrote...

wolfstanus wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

It feels more like a 180.

Welcome to politics 101!  Why do you think the world is so fecked?

So...the world is fecked because of Ugly Shepard?

Damn right, every time you make an ugly Shepard, the world dies a litte more.

[SurfaceBeneath]

And honestly, if I can keep posting, where does anyone get the idea that the Council is in any way benevolent or worthy of respect? I can't think of a single thing they did in the first game to justify giving them the benefit of the doubt concerning any situation.

[Nightwriter]

Computron2000 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
Endorsing the existence of the Reapers is a heavy thing, would they have done so lightly? Only to take it back?

Thats exactly what they did. There was only the 3 of them, anderson and udina. Anderson believes you, Udina thinks you're a violent stupid person. So later they send you to track down Geth which meshes with their line of Sovereign = Geth ship exactly and they sideline Anderson.

Fortunately for them you die.

No one is there to question them when they just proclaim "reapers are a myth" which is basically a backtrack but with the only credible and popular witness (you) dead. Anderson probably did protest but what effect would that have done.

The Council just doesn't strike me as the type of political body that would feel the need to do something like this.

If they don't believe the Reapers exist, then they'd just say so. From the beginning. There would be no backpedaling, no trying to appease Shepard and then turning around and changing their tune.

They may be wrong about things, but they're solid on their issues. If they're not buying something, if there isn't enough evidence, then that's that and they'll tell you so. They don't placate, especially when it's someone who works for them.

Why believe Shepard at the end of ME1 but not in ME2? What changed? It's irritating.

[FlintlockJazz]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

It feels more like a 180.

Welcome to politics 101!  Why do you think the world is so fecked?

Exactly. They weren't just agreeing because they were flustered and grateful about just being rescued.

They were being your average two-faced politicians.

Though really, I expected more from the Council. They really did seem to have a sense of duty, to believe in what the Council stood for. In Revelation they even seemed somewhat altruistic. Savvy, but altruistic.

I know it is "cool" to play off politicians as a bunch of self absobred nobodies with only the slightest of brain wave activity, but that simply isn't the case (most of the time).

Actually it is the case most of the time these days.  Why do you think we ended up with such a screwed economy worldwide?  Politicians were too busy taking deals under the table to monitor what the hell was going on with the economy, and don't really care anyway since they'll still get paid.  You don't need to be capable in order to enter politics, just know the right people...

[SurfaceBeneath]

Nightwriter wrote...
Why believe Shepard at the end of ME1 but not in ME2? What changed? It's irritating.

Because it was convenient for them to.

[Computron2000]

Nightwriter wrote...
Why believe Shepard at the end of ME1 but not in ME2? What changed? It's irritating.

I believe that it was gratitude working. The massive change of tone of the turian counciler when you talk to him at the end of the game was a big flag to me. His tone in ME1 during the first talk of Saren is much closer to that of ME2

[Nightwriter]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

It feels more like a 180.

Welcome to politics 101!  Why do you think the world is so fecked?

Exactly. They weren't just agreeing because they were flustered and grateful about just being rescued.

They were being your average two-faced politicians.

Though really, I expected more from the Council. They really did seem to have a sense of duty, to believe in what the Council stood for. In Revelation they even seemed somewhat altruistic. Savvy, but altruistic.

The Council has not been historically altruistic.

"Hey look, we're losing to the Rachni. Lets give this race of notoriously strong, homocidally violent, and extremely quick breeding lizard camels ships and space nukes so that we can throw their bodies at the enemy and defeat them through attrition."

"What do you mean that race we just gave space nukes went to war with us? Well screw them, lets cripple inflict them all with a horrible plague that will culturally ravage their entire race for generations."

"What's that Quarians, respected members of the galactic community? Your race just accidentally unleashed a race of genocidal robots that threatens to drive your race to extinction? Well... it is awfully far away... how about we just stop all diplomatic conversations with your race and exile you from any and all decisions. That'll teach you to accidentally create sentient AIs again."

I mean, especially with the Quarian situation, the Council's attitude concerning non-Asari, Turian, and Salarians (and Humans) seeems pretty reprehensible.

Lol. What I mean is that they truly believe they act in the best interests of the galaxy. They hold themselves to this. In every situation you just mentioned, I'm sure the Council could argue that its motives were geared toward what is best for the galaxy, and that they did what they felt they had to.
I recently read Revelation and there was a conversation between the Council and Ambassador Goyle that really illustrates how they place the needs of the galaxy first, even above their own races'.

[Computron2000]

FlintlockJazz wrote...
You don't need to be capable in order to enter politics, just know the right people...

This is why most people in the world have no idea why a person who is obviously not very smart can get into a presidential position. Because of this jadedness, when a capable person replaces him, it still ends badly.

[FlintlockJazz]

Computron2000 wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...
You don't need to be capable in order to enter politics, just know the right people...

This is why most people in the world have no idea why a person who is obviously not very smart can get into a presidential position. Because of this jadedness, when a capable person replaces him, it still ends badly.

Aye, and it's not an easily solved problem unfortunately,  It's why I look forward to the day our machine overlords take over, they can't possibly do any worse and at least we'll get things done then!

[SurfaceBeneath]

Nightwriter wrote...
Lol. What I mean is that they truly believe they act in the best interests of the galaxy. They hold themselves to this. In every situation you just mentioned, I'm sure the Council could argue that its motives were geared toward what is best for the galaxy, and that they did what they felt they had to.
I recently read Revelation and there was a conversation between the Council and Ambassador Goyle that really illustrates how they place the needs of the galaxy first, even above their own races'.

I for one would really like to hear their justification for allowing the Quarian race to be driven 99% extinct and allowing a potentially very dangerous AI propagate itself to cause a threat to the (terminus sector of the) Galaxy at a later time instead of assisting.

And not only did they decide not to act in the Quarian's behalf, they literally threw them off the Council, pretty much rubbing salt into their race's giant gaping wounds. They did not care one iota for the Quarian people or their plight.

I don't think the Citadel has ever acted in the behalf of anyone outside of their bubble. And even then, they do act in the best interests of their three representing races by not allowing the other races to sit in any major position of power. They say that's because a race "isn't ready for it", but really, why did the Turians get put on it? They had the biggest fleet of any known species up to that point and helped them fight back the Krogan. Not because they were good "decision makers", but because they bailed the Council out.

Modifié par SurfaceBeneath, 01 mars 2010 - 11:06 .

[Nightwriter]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

It feels more like a 180.

Welcome to politics 101!  Why do you think the world is so fecked?

Exactly. They weren't just agreeing because they were flustered and grateful about just being rescued.

They were being your average two-faced politicians.

Though really, I expected more from the Council. They really did seem to have a sense of duty, to believe in what the Council stood for. In Revelation they even seemed somewhat altruistic. Savvy, but altruistic.

I know it is "cool" to play off politicians as a bunch of self absobred nobodies with only the slightest of brain wave activity, but that simply isn't the case (most of the time).

Speaking about the Council specifically these are three individuals that have risen to a position to represent their entire race on a galactic scale.  These aren't stupid people, these aren't people who can't see something when it is literally right in front of their faces.

"Cool"? No, I don't think it's cool, really. I wasn't saying that exactly. I know there are good politicians out there, and I don't think the Council should necessariy be stereotyped as bad ones.

It's just that, when compared to the idea that the Council only said they believed you after you saved them due to gratitude, the idea that they simply made a politically convenient move after you died seems much more believable. They were just being politicians.

It would have made much more sense for the Council to believe you while at the same time keeping the public in the dark about it.  The only reason they don't is the writers felt you needed to be "left without any options" to make the story work.  I would have prefered to see the Council look at your connection with Cerberus as an opportunity, give you their own secret mission to spy on Cerberus while you face this new Reaper threat.  It would have made a lot more sense all around without sacrificing the direction the writers wanted to force you in, but also didn't make the Council out to be willfully stupid.

This is exactly the way it should've gone. Going undercover in Cerberus would've been awesome. Would've made romancing Jacob or Miranda all the more interesting, too, but that's another thing...

I wouldn't have felt betrayed by the good guys, I wouldn't have been so disgusted at being forced to work with Cerberus, my old Alliance pals wouldn't have treated me with disdain as I would've told them I was undercover, it would've explained why a few old squaddies couldn't join me, and it would've been SO fun tricking TIM.

And at the end, the big finale "good or bad" decision, instead of destroying or keeping the Collector base, would've been who you give it to. Do you side with Cerberus, tell them you were a spy, and give them the Collector base? Or do you side with the Council, destroy Cerberus from within, and give them the Collector base? And what you decide determines who's there to fight the Reapers when they get here.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 01 mars 2010 - 11:09 .

[Amethyst Deceiver]

Computron2000 wrote...

Amethyst Deceiver wrote...
...and what an incredibly boring cliche/archetype for the council to be made into your typical bull**** politicians, when so much more could have been done, given the events of ME1's aftermath.

*shrug* There a million possible ways to write a story but only 1 way to write it.

They had to pick a choice and decide on how they wanted to do it. Also they had to close off the path of you getting with the Alliance/Council instead of Cerberus because to do both would have cost very much more than their budget, not to mention having to change the dossiers you received and thus the teammates acquired.

Lots of people know about bull**** politicians (which makes it doubly sad when a non-bull**** politician gets whacked) so why waste extra effort for no actual reward. Use the sterotype and you're good to go

painting yourself into a corner in one story, then pulling something out your ass to convenience another story is an unforgiveable cop-out. through and through

as much as i loved ME2, not much of that love was for the story itself. the ME2 story was incredibly mediocre at best, mostly due to the painful squirming out of painted corners they forced on us. this only being one of them.

thank god there were other redeeming factors in the game that made up for it. more or less

Modifié par Amethyst Deceiver, 01 mars 2010 - 11:15 .

[Knoll Argonar]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
Why believe Shepard at the end of ME1 but not in ME2? What changed? It's irritating.

Because it was convenient for them to.

It's convenient in an all-scale view of the Galaxy I think.

The Reaper thread is suposed to be a myth. Galactic stability. Doesn't compromise weak peace with the Terminus Systems. Economy keeps growing, but there's indeed a problem. What do they have to do about it?

Well, nothing. You'll do. Remember the "We believe you believe it's true" (or something like that) line. By letting Cerberus taking care of the problem, no one will notice the real trhuth, and Galaxy will only see a dead-Shepard talking with Criminals in the Terminus Systems. You WILL save the Galaxy again, they know it, and because of that they don't hunt you or Cerberus like if you were Saren (do you really think that Anderson would be able to stop the other Council members to place Specters to watch you?). Hell, for even less they told you to go hunt and kill Saren no matter what. Cerberus has done horrible things. Any other human specter working with them or FOR them would be considered a traitor.

And thanks to the "no, we dismissed that claim" line of the Council, they let you work, they let Cerberus be the one that invests in the mission, and keep everything that may help the Galaxy but takes place in the Terminus Systems as a SHEPARD personal mission, secret, not as a council work. No one will notice you just saved their as*es.

On the other hand, they don't get involved in some "terrorist pro-human group" to the galactic comunity, they don't alter the Terminus-Citadel peace, they don't waste money on you, galactic economy isn't affected, etc.

That's the way I see it. By keeping you AND Cerberus thinking that they're the only organization that cares about collectors, they make sure that Cerberus will help Shepard, and at the same time they manage to keep galactic stability.

Remember that almost everything you do in the game isn't considered to be done by you.

[FlintlockJazz]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
Lol. What I mean is that they truly believe they act in the best interests of the galaxy. They hold themselves to this. In every situation you just mentioned, I'm sure the Council could argue that its motives were geared toward what is best for the galaxy, and that they did what they felt they had to.
I recently read Revelation and there was a conversation between the Council and Ambassador Goyle that really illustrates how they place the needs of the galaxy first, even above their own races'.

I for one would really like to hear their justification for allowing the Quarian race to be driven 99% extinct and allowing a potentially very dangerous AI propagate itself to cause a threat to the (terminus sector of the) Galaxy at a later time instead of assisting.

And not only did they decide not to act in the Quarian's behalf, they literally threw them off the Council, pretty much rubbing salt into their race's giant gaping wounds. They did not care one iota for the Quarian people or their plight.

I don't think the Citadel has ever acted in the behalf of anyone outside of their bubble. And even then, they do act in the best interests of their three representing races by not allowing the other races to sit in any major position of power. They say that's because a race "isn't ready for it", but really, why did the Turians get put on it? They had the biggest fleet of any known species up to that point and helped them fight back the Krogan. Not because they were good "decision makers", but because they bailed the Council out.

Regarding the Quarians, one thing I discovered recently, literally last night in fact, is that there is a planet that the Quarians actually tried to settle and colonise after being driven out by the Geth, but not only was their application to the Council rejected who instead chose to give it to the Elcor, but the Quarian colonists already there were given one month to get off the planet before they would be forcibly chucked out (I think it even hinted at the threat of fatal force, since the Quarians literally abandoned half their stuff in their rush to get out of there).  This does not sound like a benign leadership (and considering the Quarians were the ones to find the planet in the first place, makes you wonder what right they had to decide who got the planet...).

[Nightwriter]

Knoll Argonar wrote...

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
Why believe Shepard at the end of ME1 but not in ME2? What changed? It's irritating.

Because it was convenient for them to.

It's convenient in an all-scale view of the Galaxy I think.

The Reaper thread is suposed to be a myth. Galactic stability. Doesn't compromise weak peace with the Terminus Systems. Economy keeps growing, but there's indeed a problem. What do they have to do about it?

Well, nothing. You'll do. Remember the "We believe you believe it's true" (or something like that) line. By letting Cerberus taking care of the problem, no one will notice the real trhuth, and Galaxy will only see a dead-Shepard talking with Criminals in the Terminus Systems. You WILL save the Galaxy again, they know it, and because of that they don't hunt you or Cerberus like if you were Saren (do you really think that Anderson would be able to stop the other Council members to place Specters to watch you?). Hell, for even less they told you to go hunt and kill Saren no matter what. Cerberus has done horrible things. Any other human specter working with them or FOR them would be considered a traitor.

And thanks to the "no, we dismissed that claim" line of the Council, they let you work, they let Cerberus be the one that invests in the mission, and keep everything that may help the Galaxy but takes place in the Terminus Systems as a SHEPARD personal mission, secret, not as a council work. No one will notice you just saved their as*es.

On the other hand, they don't get involved in some "terrorist pro-human group" to the galactic comunity, they don't alter the Terminus-Citadel peace, they don't waste money on you, galactic economy isn't affected, etc.

That's the way I see it. By keeping you AND Cerberus thinking that they're the only organization that cares about collectors, they make sure that Cerberus will help Shepard, and at the same time they manage to keep galactic stability.

Remember that almost everything you do in the game isn't considered to be done by you.

This might be a defensible argument, IF the Council hadn't treated you with condescension, rudeness, and outright disrespect.

They did not give you the benefit of the doubt, they did not come clean with you and tell you this is what they were doing. They hung you out to dry and made you feel your word counted for nothing. They told you that you were mentally unstable, a fool.

I don't care if they didn't want Cerberus to know, you can't tell me the Council couldn't have found a way to have a single conversation with you safe from Cerberus's ears. They could've found a way to communicate this to you, to explain themselves. They didn't. 

[SurfaceBeneath]

FlintlockJazz wrote...
Regarding the Quarians, one thing I discovered recently, literally last night in fact, is that there is a planet that the Quarians actually tried to settle and colonise after being driven out by the Geth, but not only was their application to the Council rejected who instead chose to give it to the Elcor, but the Quarian colonists already there were given one month to get off the planet before they would be forcibly chucked out (I think it even hinted at the threat of fatal force, since the Quarians literally abandoned half their stuff in their rush to get out of there).  This does not sound like a benign leadership (and considering the Quarians were the ones to find the planet in the first place, makes you wonder what right they had to decide who got the planet...).

Wow, good catch.

[Amethyst Deceiver]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
Lol. What I mean is that they truly believe they act in the best interests of the galaxy. They hold themselves to this. In every situation you just mentioned, I'm sure the Council could argue that its motives were geared toward what is best for the galaxy, and that they did what they felt they had to.
I recently read Revelation and there was a conversation between the Council and Ambassador Goyle that really illustrates how they place the needs of the galaxy first, even above their own races'.

I for one would really like to hear their justification for allowing the Quarian race to be driven 99% extinct and allowing a potentially very dangerous AI propagate itself to cause a threat to the (terminus sector of the) Galaxy at a later time instead of assisting.

And not only did they decide not to act in the Quarian's behalf, they literally threw them off the Council, pretty much rubbing salt into their race's giant gaping wounds. They did not care one iota for the Quarian people or their plight.

I don't think the Citadel has ever acted in the behalf of anyone outside of their bubble. And even then, they do act in the best interests of their three representing races by not allowing the other races to sit in any major position of power. They say that's because a race "isn't ready for it", but really, why did the Turians get put on it? They had the biggest fleet of any known species up to that point and helped them fight back the Krogan. Not because they were good "decision makers", but because they bailed the Council out.

Regarding the Quarians, one thing I discovered recently, literally last night in fact, is that there is a planet that the Quarians actually tried to settle and colonise after being driven out by the Geth, but not only was their application to the Council rejected who instead chose to give it to the Elcor, but the Quarian colonists already there were given one month to get off the planet before they would be forcibly chucked out (I think it even hinted at the threat of fatal force, since the Quarians literally abandoned half their stuff in their rush to get out of there).  This does not sound like a benign leadership (and considering the Quarians were the ones to find the planet in the first place, makes you wonder what right they had to decide who got the planet...).

what part of the game did you find this

[Randy1012]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

Regarding the Quarians, one thing I discovered recently, literally last night in fact, is that there is a planet that the Quarians actually tried to settle and colonise after being driven out by the Geth, but not only was their application to the Council rejected who instead chose to give it to the Elcor, but the Quarian colonists already there were given one month to get off the planet before they would be forcibly chucked out (I think it even hinted at the threat of fatal force, since the Quarians literally abandoned half their stuff in their rush to get out of there).  This does not sound like a benign leadership (and considering the Quarians were the ones to find the planet in the first place, makes you wonder what right they had to decide who got the planet...).

Oh yeah, I remember reading about that. Things like that sometimes make me wish I hadn't supported the Council so strongly in ME1.

[Computron2000]

FlintlockJazz wrote...
Regarding the Quarians, one thing I discovered recently, literally last night in fact, is that there is a planet that the Quarians actually tried to settle and colonise after being driven out by the Geth, but not only was their application to the Council rejected who instead chose to give it to the Elcor, but the Quarian colonists already there were given one month to get off the planet before they would be forcibly chucked out (I think it even hinted at the threat of fatal force, since the Quarians literally abandoned half their stuff in their rush to get out of there).  This does not sound like a benign leadership (and considering the Quarians were the ones to find the planet in the first place, makes you wonder what right they had to decide who got the planet...).

I'm guessing this is from a planet description somewhere? If so can you tell us whats the planet's name so we can take a look too?

[Lord Abrasion]

Amethyst Deceiver wrote...

its one thing to delude the public about the legitimacy of the reapers.

but its another thing entirely to backtrack 180 degrees in a private meeting with the one person who actually met and killed one of them.

it doesnt make ANY sense whatsoever. if the council wants to hide or cover up the reapers from the public, thats fine and understandable, but dont spout this delusional bull**** to shepard when they so humbly admitted it at the end of ME1.

if it went something like "yeah, the reapers... well we are going to reinstate your spectre status and you are free to go about your quest to find a way to stop them but you have to understand we cant officially support you due to the mass panic it would cause in the public"

they would be admitting the reapers are real to you, but are hiding it from the public. totally understandable.

but no...

That would be my main beef with the game as well. The scenario you describe would definitely have made more sense but instead - for some inexplicable reason - Shepard is repaid for saving the (council and) entire galaxy by having his/her name dragged through the mud. Even the Alliance stabs him/her in the back. Plot device to explain why Shepard would work with Cerberus? Hardly necessary if you ask me. I think it would've been enough that the council can't act for political reasons (not wanting to risk war with the Terminus Systems). Same with the Alliance, plus them still rebuilding the fleet.

[Balerion84]

Tali's trial didin't bothered me at all. But that thing with Sole Survivor and Cerberus did. Especially since my default/canon/whatever Shepard is Earthborn Sole Survivor... after 2 playthroughs he's 58 and I wanted to get him to 60, but now I'm wondering if I should just get over that or make a new canon Shep... oh well