27 réponses à ce sujet

[Erasculio]

The only useful feature of Tactical Cloak is the damage bonus it grants, which isn't linked to the power's main feature of becoming invisible.

Infiltrators excell at using Sniper Rifles, which is proved by how they get the slow time ability when zooming a target under the rifle's scope.

Tactical Cloak, in other hand, is useful when moving closer to a target, when running away from a target and when aiming. However...

1) Moving closer to a target: Sniper Rifles are the weapons with the greatest range in the game. They can kill an enemy as soon as it's visible, so there is no point in moving closer to a target.

2) Running away from a target: same as above. Sniper rifles can kill enemies from an incredibly long range; there is no need or point in moving so close to a target that running away from it would be necessary. Even against melee enemies, an Infiltrator can make his squad advance and remain in the back, sniping targets from safety.

3) Aiming: considering how Infiltrators already slow time down when aiming with a Sniper Rifle, the extra time given by Tactical Cloak to aim is useless.

Bioware should have removed Tactical Cloak, made the slow time ability when using Sniper Rifles the new Infiltrator-only power (of course, with a stronger slowing ability at maximum level than what it has today, and also stronger than Adrenaline Burst since it would be more limited), and given it the same damage bonus Assassination Cloak has. We would end with a useful power giving a useful damage boost, instead of an useless power giving a useful damage boost like we have today.

[rabbitchannel]

This assumes that everyone who plays an Infiltrator uses a sniper rifle. Which is not the case. Also, can be used for repositioning for flanking.

[Jayce]

Tactical cloak adds a whole heap of tactical flexibility got a firefight. you just have to lean to use it in conjuction with squad commands and line of sight.



Nothing beats using Tali's drone to draw fire while you cloak and sneak into the best vantage spot then Widow the crap out of every SOB too stupid to get out of Shep's way.

[Arde5643]

@Erasculio : Ehhh....unless you can actually kill all enemies in almost every battle with the sniper rifle, then you might have a point.

As it is, there's no way the sniper rifle can be used to kill all enemies in almost any single battle, even on veteran difficulty, hence the use of the tactical cloak to move around the battlefield when using the SMG and pistol.

[Erasculio]

This assumes that everyone who plays an Infiltrator uses a sniper rifle. Which is not the case.

You could also make a Soldier character that only uses Reave and doesn't fire a gun once, but you would still be only gimping yourself. Infiltrators have been made to use Sniper Rifles; that's not a matter of opinion, it's a fact from how their most basic ability, Operative, gives a bonus to Sniper Rifles and to no other weapon.

Tactical cloak adds a whole heap of tactical flexibility got a
firefight. you just have to lean to use it in conjuction with squad
commands and line of sight.

Yes, you only have to tell your squad to flank your enemies (since their weapons have far less range than you do, and so they would have to be closer to the targets anyway) and make them kill the few enemies outside your line of sight. It would be incredibly inefficient to go from the farthest possible position from your enemies (which is where you should be, considering how your sniper rifles can kill your enemies from there) to a position in which you need to move past them when you already have two party members who need to be close to the enemies and considering how all you need to see from an enemy is a small piece of their body in order to deliver a killing shot.

As it is, there's no way the sniper
rifle can be used to kill all enemies in almost any single battle, even
on veteran difficulty, hence the use of the tactical cloak to move
around the battlefield when using the SMG and pistol.

So instead of having an ability that doesn't work with the Infiltrator's main weapon, wouldn't it be better to have an ability that actually works with said weapon? Besides, Tactical Cloak is something more suited for Shotguns than for SMGs or pistols.

Modifié par Erasculio, 01 mars 2010 - 11:42 .

[Arde5643]

See? We're not really following your complaints now then ... are you actually complaining that you want infiltrators to get the exact same bonus power as the soldier? If that's the case, why don't you just play the soldier.



The tactical cloak as it is gives Widow users and non-Widow infiltrators a more varied game than the soldier's boring adrenaline rush skill.

With the widow in hand, the tactical cloak acts exactly like the adrenaline rush while giving some chance of not getting shot.

Without the widow (lack of ammo or saving ammo), the tactical cloak becomes well... tactical - you use it to reposition yourself in the field, giving yourself flanking opportunities.

And if you actually get something else other than the widow, well the tactical cloak's positioning bonus works even better for you since the other weapons require medium to close range to be effective.



If the tactical cloak is simply a damage boost power, I don't think the infiltrator class will be as interesting as it is now.

[Besetment]

Tactical Cloak only sucks if you use it for a one time damage bonus every cooldown. Tactical Cloak gives you ridiculous battlefield mobility. It makes you lose aggro instantly which among other things can be used to make enemies targetting you suddenly turn around and start walking towards your squadmates. Its useful for slowing YMIRs and Praetorians down and breaking their fire.

Its useful for shortening fights where there are endless waves of enemies like the shutter sections on Archangel's loyalty mission.

You can use it to reach cover which other classes just can't reach without getting shot to pieces or taking loads of aggro so even if they make it to cover they are getting flanked anyway. The damage bonus is a nice byproduct of Assassination Cloak and its useful when you have a round in chamber and the opportunity presents itself but honestly, if thats all you use cloak for you may as well just roll a Widow Soldier.

Modifié par Besetment, 01 mars 2010 - 01:20 .

[FlintlockJazz]

Erasculio wrote...

1) Moving closer to a target: Sniper Rifles are the weapons with the greatest range in the game. They can kill an enemy as soon as it's visible, so there is no point in moving closer to a target.

It is useful when you want to flank your enemy so that you can actually see them when they're behind cover to shoot.

Erasculio wrote...
2) Running away from a target: same as above. Sniper rifles can kill enemies from an incredibly long range; there is no need or point in moving so close to a target that running away from it would be necessary. Even against melee enemies, an Infiltrator can make his squad advance and remain in the back, sniping targets from safety.

I take it you've not got to the collector ship then?  Husks will charge you and at least some of them will get to you before you can shoot them all and ignore your comrades.  There are multiple situations of this.

Erasculio wrote...
3) Aiming: considering how Infiltrators already slow time down when aiming with a Sniper Rifle, the extra time given by Tactical Cloak to aim is useless.

The tactical cloak gives you a damage boost, and allows you to line up your shots without being shot back at in return.

Erasculio wrote...
Bioware should have removed Tactical Cloak, made the slow time ability when using Sniper Rifles the new Infiltrator-only power (of course, with a stronger slowing ability at maximum level than what it has today, and also stronger than Adrenaline Burst since it would be more limited), and given it the same damage bonus Assassination Cloak has. We would end with a useful power giving a useful damage boost, instead of an useless power giving a useful damage boost like we have today.

No.  If you think that then you are playing it wrong.

[BeyondFX]

CQC infiltrator. You should really look into it

[Tarisln]

Let's also remember that there are usually more enemies in a fight than that sniper rifle has rounds of ammunition. Tactical Cloak is fantastic for sneaking up to pick up some more thermal clips and then retreating back to your defensive position, preferably without getting filled full of holes.

[We Tigers]

Cloaking, rushing around the enemy, killing the guy behind cover with SMG/melee, and then taking over his cover point and tossing an incinerate or sniper shot right into the back of his buddies is one of the most fun things I've done in this game.  My only gripe with cloak is that the no-aggro effect disappears almost instantly when you emerge, even if enemies don't have line of sight on you.  However, since we have combat radar, I guess I can accept that all the bad guys do, too.

Even if you do only use the cloak for sniper shots, it still makes the infiltrator the most survivable sniper in the game.  6 seconds to line up the perfect shot without getting fired on is something that you won't have on insanity without it.  Not that you should really need it, but when you need a breather in a fight and want to make absolutely positively sure you've killed every heavy weapons merc in the room...accept no substitutes.

[Spyndel]

Another thread title I never thought I'd see.

[GCreature]

You could also make a Soldier character that only uses Reave and doesn't fire a gun once, but you would still be only gimping yourself. Infiltrators have been made to use Sniper Rifles; that's not a matter of opinion, it's a fact from how their most basic ability, Operative, gives a bonus to Sniper Rifles and to no other weapon.

Reave is a bonus abilty. The Infiltrators SMG, melee, enhanced cloak (longer duration is arguably best for closing in on the enemy rather than for camping) and cryo rounds aren't.

Yes, you only have to tell your squad to flank your enemies (since their weapons have far less range than you do, and so they would have to be closer to the targets anyway) and make them kill the few enemies outside your line of sight. It would be incredibly inefficient to go from the farthest possible position from your enemies (which is where you should be, considering how your sniper rifles can kill your enemies from there) to a position in which you need to move past them when you already have two party members who need to be close to the enemies and considering how all you need to see from an enemy is a small piece of their body in order to deliver a killing shot.

Except the player needs line of sight to fire off ally powers and to order allies to "move to", which makes it hard to move them to certain bits of cover. Also, Shepard easily has the greatest killing ability and speed(storm) to make use of flanking assaults.

Modifié par GCreature, 01 mars 2010 - 02:46 .

[tanarri23]

It's very useful for moving around and flanking enemies...and also for perfect headshots

[Hellhawx]

I strongly disagree. Tactical Cloak is my favorite ability as an Infiltrator. It becomes most useful on Insanity. It provides the following:

-The ability to relocate without getting shredded
-The ability to flank unnoticed
-To stop getting shot at (really helps against Harbinger controlled Collectors)
-To be able to shoot when under fire (when stuck in close range like Collector Ship or against Praetorians)
-To get a massive damage modifier

All of these are massively helpful. I don't think I could have survived Insanity without it.

Your views assume too much. You assume that all battles can be won with the sniper. Limited Thermal Clips make this impossible. Especially on higher difficulties. You also assume that enemies don't encroach on the player, which is also cearly not true. Not all battles are at extreme long range.

Modifié par Hellhawx, 01 mars 2010 - 03:16 .

[Jaekahn]

Erasculio wrote...

The only useful feature of Tactical Cloak is the damage bonus it grants, which isn't linked to the power's main feature of becoming invisible.

Infiltrators excell at using Sniper Rifles, which is proved by how they get the slow time ability when zooming a target under the rifle's scope.

Tactical Cloak, in other hand, is useful when moving closer to a target, when running away from a target and when aiming. However...

1) Moving closer to a target: Sniper Rifles are the weapons with the greatest range in the game. They can kill an enemy as soon as it's visible, so there is no point in moving closer to a target.

2) Running away from a target: same as above. Sniper rifles can kill enemies from an incredibly long range; there is no need or point in moving so close to a target that running away from it would be necessary. Even against melee enemies, an Infiltrator can make his squad advance and remain in the back, sniping targets from safety.

3) Aiming: considering how Infiltrators already slow time down when aiming with a Sniper Rifle, the extra time given by Tactical Cloak to aim is useless.

Bioware should have removed Tactical Cloak, made the slow time ability when using Sniper Rifles the new Infiltrator-only power (of course, with a stronger slowing ability at maximum level than what it has today, and also stronger than Adrenaline Burst since it would be more limited), and given it the same damage bonus Assassination Cloak has. We would end with a useful power giving a useful damage boost, instead of an useless power giving a useful damage boost like we have today.

Okay, lets consider the facts. The bane of sniper rifles is their limited ammo. Clearly you can't pick off every enemy on the battlefield with the amount of ammo you have for your sniper rifle, espacially on hardcore and insanity when every target has a form of protection. That means you would either need to get closer so that you could use your Pistol or SMG, or that you need to somehow scrounge some ammo clips in mid-fight.

Now that that's out of the way, Tactical cloak is one of the most unique, useful and talented powers out of all the classes. It allows you to relieve pressure from yourself by cloaking, granting you time to execute a kill via sniper rifle, or move to a better position. This is particularly helpful when you're being flanked. The purpose for Tactical Cloak isn't to grant Infiltrators the power of awesomeness, but instead it is given great synergy with their distinct playstyle. For example, Singularlity, for adepts, isn't a one hit kill. It, on the other hand, can set up some great combinations to set off a warp explosion.

So, sir, I would have to disagree with you. Tactical Cloak is far from useless. It serves several purposes, unlike other class powers which can only be used on enemies. Remember, the Infiltrator is practically an Assassin. Assassins don't go running into enemy forces with guns blazing. They are elusive, tactical shoulders that are trained to pick off their targets one at a time.

[Atmosfear3]

You guys got trolled. Erasculio probably hasn't even gotten past Horizon yet.

[bevey2176]

totally agree on trolled.



Hay guys u kno wut also iz bad? charge, warp, reave they all useless in this game all I iz i mean all i do is shoot and win ya?!

[KatanaMaster95]

I found tactical cloak pretty useless too.

[shnellegaming]

Arde5643 wrote...

@Erasculio : Ehhh....unless you can actually kill all enemies in almost every battle with the sniper rifle, then you might have a point.
As it is, there's no way the sniper rifle can be used to kill all enemies in almost any single battle, even on veteran difficulty, hence the use of the tactical cloak to move around the battlefield when using the SMG and pistol.

Uh I did.  My infiltrator run I only used my sniper rifle to kill enemies.  I was only on veteran level but the only time I didn't was if I ran out of ammo.  Think that was only two or three times though.  I mostly used Tac Cloak as a damage booster, a way to find REALLY good sniper perches, and if I needed to get mobs off me.

[JaegerBane]

I do have to admit I'm bemused at this new phenomenon of people convincing themselves that this class and that class can only function one way, and any other function - or indeed, any ability that assists another function - is somehow wrong.

I mean, geez, the infiltrator is supposed to snipe and only snipe? Really? You don't think they were given the name 'infiltrator' for a reason?

Tactical Cloak is one of the more novel abilities in this game. Second only in sheer coolness to Biotic Charge. It perfectly plays into the Infiltrator's concept of being a stealthy, tech-savvy killer. I've no idea where the OP managed to get the idea that the infiltrator was only ever supposed to Snipe, and then goes down this weird path of demanding they get Adrenaline Rush.

[Arde5643]

shnellegaming wrote...

Arde5643 wrote...

@Erasculio : Ehhh....unless you can actually kill all enemies in almost every battle with the sniper rifle, then you might have a point.
As it is, there's no way the sniper rifle can be used to kill all enemies in almost any single battle, even on veteran difficulty, hence the use of the tactical cloak to move around the battlefield when using the SMG and pistol.

Uh I did.  My infiltrator run I only used my sniper rifle to kill enemies.  I was only on veteran level but the only time I didn't was if I ran out of ammo.  Think that was only two or three times though.  I mostly used Tac Cloak as a damage booster, a way to find REALLY good sniper perches, and if I needed to get mobs off me.

Okay, so I guess that is doable in veteran level and lower I suppose then.

[boogu168]

bevey2176 wrote...

totally agree on trolled.

Hay guys u kno wut also iz bad? charge, warp, reave they all useless in this game all I iz i mean all i do is shoot and win ya?!

Im sorry but charge and reave are actually to of the MOST useful ablities if used correctly.

[Arde5643]

@boogu: your sarcasm detector is totally broken, good sir.

[mundus66]

Tactical cloak might not be as good as, charge, adrenaline rush or reave (op much?) but it is still one of the best skills in the game. Just 70% extra damage on your sniper bullets makes it pretty good. But you can also use it as a GTFO button or to flank and its nasty when combined with a smg. Experiment, it is good and infiltrator is even without it, one of the best classes since they got free slowdown on sniper.