93 réponses à ce sujet

[Wild Still]

There is too much text in this topic, please limit your responses to seventeen words or less.

[GnusmasTHX]

AdamBoozer wrote...
I see how you could argue that it's just a crashed ship but we would see that race around still so they must of been wiped out

Yeah, they lived a billion years ago. So did the dinosaurs (not really), are you proposing that every extinction is the direct result of the Reapers?

AdamBoozer wrote...
So I thought it was a base or compound and the ship was under the crator. So the reapers seeing the base take it out it kills the organic ship if it was a ship and bam.

Why would you think there's a base or compound under the crater? There's no mention of anything like that when yo scan Jartar.  A crater is a crater, resulting from one object impacting another, in this case the Leviathan landing on Jartar. I presume this was a crash, because one; dreadnaught-sized ships rarely land on planets, and two, it resulted in a crater, so obviously it wasn't going at "landing-speed"

AdamBoozer wrote...I don't think I have ever seen a crator with anything inside it intact. For a ship to survive there won't be a crator either as seen by al the other crashed ships.

... Okay? But No.

AdamBoozer wrote...
Almost all the crators in ME2 have evidence of space fairing civilzation but hte moons just have sign of impact. If there is a crator it isn't ever explained like the reaper crators are.

No, they don't. Craters are craters. Seriously, Google what a crater is and you might understand why it is that not ALL craters in ME are detailed. They're naturally occurring. You might as well ask why not all mountains have a 3 page summary on their existence and formation.

AdamBoozer wrote...
Reapers are not just machines there cybernetic as said by EDI during the suicide mission and why they need humans. Your A and B support my theory . . .

Machine = Cybernetics.

My A and B don't support your theory because your theory uses the Leviathan as PROOF of the Reapers being active a billion years ago. The Leviathan is not PROOF of anything, other than that there's a Leviathan.

Instead, my theories, my A and B, expand on the nature of the Leviathan/the race that built it, itself. 

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 02 mars 2010 - 04:14 .

[SandTrout]

The likelihood of a race advanced enough for interstellar travel allowing itself to go extinct is low, and outside factors almost certainly played a role. However, there is no quantitative proof that the Leviathan is related in any way to the reapers. Possible, even probable? Yes. Certain? Not quite.

That discussion is going nowhere.



Any more theories?

[-D7-]

We know that the Reaper's reap every 50k years or so (Liara, ME1). The name Reaper was
given by the Protheans to "name their destruction" (Sovereign diagloge, ME1). Now that name (however inaccurate) implies that they are reaping something, as in a farmer reaping his wheat field, when the crop is
ready. 

From talking to TIM we know that normal collector behavior was that they periodically would pop in. Pay tons of cash to slavers and the like to collect dozen of samples of different species.

From talking to Vigil we know that Sovereign would have to periodically check the status of the galaxy to see if was time to call the other Reapers in.

From the end ME2 cut scene we can assume that the other Reapers had direct communication with the Collectors.

So the Reapers just finished killing/harvesting off the Prothean era races. The Protheans being the dominant species of that cycle (or the most successfully indoctrinated) are then set up to become the collectors for the next cycle (Hypotesis). Sovereign goes to wait at the collector base in a dormant state. Waking every so often to get a
status update from the Collectors (Conjecture form Vigil). More importantly checking the samples being
brought to him so see if whatever genetic/evolutionary marker  that his kind is looking for is present.

At some point the given condition that the Reaper's need is meet and verified by Sovereign and the Collectors. Sovereign tells Harbinger to get ready and sends the signal to the Citadel. Nothing happens (Vigil, ME1). At this point the big concern might be that the keepers might have evolved beyond indoctrination (Vigil, ME1). At this Point plan A is a bust.

Plan B. Sovereign is ordered to go to the Citadel and send the signal directly. He can't just show up and start signaling/hacking since he is the only one and if is safe to assume that at this point the Asari have enough of a fleet to damage him (Asari Super Cap Ship, ME1). Sovereign runs into the Rachni which offers him an easily malleable race, indoctrinate the queens you now control the race (Diag. from ME2 if you saved Rachi queen). Now Sovereign knew the other races would eventually run into them so he prep them to fight the moment they
are discovered. This will provide him with the fodder he needs to get to the Citadel at activate the signal. However the Krogan are found and provide the perfect counter to the Rachni before they were able to reach the Citadel (ME1 Rachi Wars Codex). Plan B is a bust.

Plan C. Sovereign needs another race to act as fodder for him to get close to the Citadel. At some point he finds a Prothean beacon and realizes that the Citadel has been sabotaged by the group of Protheans that escaped notice on Ilos (Conjecture since Soverign was on Vermire). Now the situation is worse since he will now need have a physical link to Citadel central control meaning that an 'inside man' will be needed. At around this time he becomes aware of the Geth and corrupts a group of them (Legion, ME2). He then allows himself to be found   (from the first ME book) and indoctrinates Saren. The rest is the events that occur in ME1 which ends in failure. Plan C is a bust.

Harbinger and the other Reapers are informed (probably by the collectors) what happened to Sovereign (ME2, the fact that they know you by name). Their thinking has to be along the lines of:  Who is this Shepard? What are humans? They only been in the 'scene' for less than a century (ME1, First Contact War)? and they killed one of us?

Now the Reapers are arrogant but with good reason. They have had this cycle thing going for Millions of years with no significant resistance (ME2, derelic reaper). Chances are none of them has died since the one they lost the one you board on ME2. I would be worried that if humans can a kill a reaper with less than century of space xp, what could they do if they had more time? Humanity would now represents a clear and present danger. Shepard would be the embodiment of that threat (Conjecture from ME2).

Plan D. The collectors are ordered to kill/capture Shepard. This eliminates the immediate threat since he is the driving force behind the any kind of anti-reaper preparation (Opening scene ME2).  But humans still pose a long term threat. So a human reaper is ordered to be constructed. My theory on why a human reaper is twofold.
One, the reapers are afraid of what humans can do. They have lost one of their number to the newbies. So they need a human cipher (like Shepard who needed the Prothean Cipher in ME1) to better understand them.
Two, I will assume that a human reaper would be able to indoctrinate humans more efficiently. Saren was
running experiments to test the effect/limits of indoctrination in ME1. If was affecting different people/races at different rate. With indoctrination taking anywhere from days to months. A human reaper should in theory be able to indoctrinate humans in a matter of hours. Vigil said in ME1 that those indoctrinated where used as saboteurs and spies. Humans now playing a more significant role would make the ideal race to indoctrinate since they would be in a position to sabotage the Citadel or allow the new reaper to activate the Citadel relay. This leads to the events in ME2 which ends with Plan D being busted.

Plan E: I read the last line spoken by Harbinger not as one of arrogance but one of frustration. "You failed. We will find another way. Releasing Control." = "It doesn't matter Shepard! You failed because we WILL FIND ANOTHER WAY". So far all efforts by the reapers have been to reactivate the Citadel's relay
functions so their fleet could jump in. I think by that line the Reapers have given up on that idea and will have to come in old school. However many years that would take, setting up events for ME3.

[GnusmasTHX]

SandTrout wrote...

The likelihood of a race advanced enough for interstellar travel allowing itself to go extinct is low, and outside factors almost certainly played a role. However, there is no quantitative proof that the Leviathan is related in any way to the reapers. Possible, even probable? Yes. Certain? Not quite.
That discussion is going nowhere.

Any more theories?

I agree, said so in my first post. I bring it up only because the original theory hinged on it, then I get swamped trying to answer irrelevant stuff about craters... Anyway...

Also kind of a moot point, your post, extinctions of advanced races are the staple of ME.

[SandTrout]

-D7- wrote...

Interesting point about the Human Cipher, hadn't considered that yet. I had figured the Human Reaper in as an End rather than a Means for the most part. It would make sense that they would need something to bridge the gap between Humans and Reaper phychology to get a stategic edge.

[slyguy07]

Doubtful they will fly in old school. Would take too long or possibly drain their power reserves. They have to have another plan.

[Mallissin]

SandTrout wrote...

-D7- wrote...

Interesting point about the Human Cipher, hadn't considered that yet. I had figured the Human Reaper in as an End rather than a Means for the most part. It would make sense that they would need something to bridge the gap between Humans and Reaper phychology to get a stategic edge.

HEY HEY! Nabbing my ideas for your own without even linking! Shame on you!

http://social.biowar...5/index/1513253

Edit note: Fixed the link.

Modifié par Mallissin, 02 mars 2010 - 05:30 .

[SandTrout]

My post was before yours, so that would mean you were nabbing my ideas.

[Mallissin]

SandTrout wrote...

My post was before yours, so that would mean you were nabbing my ideas.

Huh? My thread was started 42 minutes ago, you responded to it 23 minutes ago and posted an idea from it here 26 minutes ago. (These are all numbers from several minutes ago.)

So, unless I read your mind, it's more likely you read the other thread, posted an idea from it here and then responded to my thread.

Boy was that confusing to type. Time can be so complicated.

[Weskerr]

This is only a suspicion on my part, but the Reapers may have developed into their final form in the same way that the Geth wish to conglomorate into a Dyson Sphere-like structure. Perhaps the Reapers started off as a purely synthetic species, like the Geth, and after coalescing into a sphere then decided that adding organic components to their own anatomy -so to speak - was the next and best step of evolutionary advancement.

I'm basing this in part on the discussions Shepard has with Legion. Since the Geth are purely synthetic and the Reapers are partly synthetic, I think it's possible that at one point the Reapers were purely synthetic. Since the Geth's way of thinking is just mathematics, and mathematics is inherently logical, perhaps the Geth will inevitably come to the same conclusion as the Reapers - that is if the Reapers were really ever just synthetic - and try to integrate organics into their anatomy.

If my theory is true then the implications are scary. The Reapers foreshadow what the Geth will ultimately become.

Modifié par Weskerr, 02 mars 2010 - 05:27 .

[Mallissin]

I agree with the Salarian, as I mention in the other thread, but I only believe the Geth will become like the Reapers if the Quarians go to war with them.

[GnusmasTHX]

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 02 mars 2010 - 05:36 .

[AdamBoozer]

[quote]Yeah, they lived a billion years ago. So did the dinosaurs (not really), are you proposing that every extinction is the direct result of the Reapers?[/quote]
Actually I am suggesting every major extention is a direct result of the reapers so kinda yeah. your dino bit is WAY off though it is proven there was carbon based life forms on earth at the time it was not complex and this is mass effect.


[quote]Why would you think there's a base or compound under the crater? There's no mention of anything like that when yo scan Jartar.  A crater is a crater, resulting from one object impacting another, in this case the Leviathan landing on Jartar. I presume this was a crash, because one; dreadnaught-sized ships rarely land on planets, and two, it resulted in a crater, so obviously it wasn't going at "landing-speed"[/quote]

Well it just seems like it would be the only way for it to be intact from an impact powerful enough to cause a crater that big. I know there's no mention of it, it's speculation that whole bit is speculation it is also argueable that it never existed because it disapeared. There are many arguements but im not focusing on that.

You don't know it landed on jartar, that it's a ship or if it was a ship that it was actually ever flown. That's why I didn't try and say there is no doubt I tried to show a rough estimate of it's age. That was the first FOUND wiped out civilization we know it is a civilization though. because look on the wiki under races and you see the pattern it is VERY obvious there was reaper intervention.

From recent down.

Rachni roughly two thousand years ago
Protheans 50,000 years ago (repourposed into collectors)
Zeioph undetermined
Thoi'han and Inusannon Approximately 127,000 years ago, a series of battles were fought over it by two organic species. They are also gone "mysteriously"
Keepers If Shepard aided Chorban in collecting data on the keepers, he will send a message to Shepard detailing his findings. Chorban has discovered that the keepers are engineered and are designed to react to something like a signal which occurs every 50,000 years or so. This point after every 50,000 year gap is accompanied by minor genetic alterations, suggesting that the Reapers modify the keepers with each cycle of extinction.
Leviathan of Dis The lastest found evidence of reaper intervention in the galaxy. "The 'Leviathan of Dis[/b]' is the name given to a gigantic corpse discovered in a crater on Jartar in 2163. It is believed to be the remains of a genetically engineered starship and its age was originally placed at nearly a billion years old.
However there was little time to study it. Not long after its discovery by a batarian survey team, a batarian dreadnought visited the Dis system, after which the Leviathan mysteriously disappeared. The batarians have since strenuously denied that the Leviathan existed at all. They become even more vocal when showed documentation of the Leviathan by salarian researchers before its disappearance. "

You do not know it was a dreadnaught sized ship. It never said that anywhere. If it had been a crash you wouldn't find **** trust me. If we knew some weight measurements I could show you the actual math. It could of been built there for some purpose or rather grown.



[quote]AdamBoozer wrote...I don't think I have ever seen a crator with anything inside it intact. For a ship to survive there won't be a crator either as seen by al the other crashed ships. [/quote]



[quote]... Okay? But No.[/quote]
Like the jacobs loyality mission the normandy crash site and! and the freighter you upload the info about to a museum.


[quote]No, they don't. Craters are craters. Seriously, Google what a crater is and you might understand why it is that not ALL craters in ME are detailed. They're naturally occurring. You might as well ask why not all mountains have a 3 page summary on their existence and formation.[/quote]Do not insult my intelegence. I don't need to google for anything. I hate google. there is more then one type of crater if you payed attention in school you would know that. I am not about to do the work for you play the game go to the planets it will actually tell you that the sites that were struct have evidence of life struck by a dreadnaught sized ship. I shouldn't have to tell you all this you should read the threads guarda one left for us. It never will say "this event was natuarlly occuring." Well you would be surpirsed on the moutain thing. They can get bogged down on the theory's. *Looks around*


[quote]Machine = Cybernetics.

My A and B don't support your theory because your theory uses the Leviathan as PROOF of the Reapers being active a billion years ago. The Leviathan is not PROOF of anything, other than that there's a Leviathan.

Instead, my theories, my A and B, expand on the nature of the Leviathan/the race that built it, itself. [/quote]Uhhh too much will take me a bit to get all the proof.[/quote]
Finally last one to prove wrong. lol took me a bit.

Machine = Cybernetics (says you) the rest sound a bit like
http://www.english-t...definitions.php : to produce via mechanical means
A machine is any that uses energy to perform some activity. In common usage, the meaning is that of a device having parts that perform or assist in performing any type of work. A simple machine is a device that transforms the direction or magnitude of a force without consuming any energy. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine

Weird not many sites I know had that one. But here's the other side.

Cybernetics:

The theory/science of communication and control in the animal and the machine; The art/study of governing, controlling automatic processes and communication; Technology related to computers and Internet
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cybernetics



ah but it could mean what you said but it dose not mean machine. Thats way off from the new deffinetion. Can't bealive I haven't seen that new one yet with how much I study this kind of thing.

Uh I disagree on that. If you just look at what I have said and look at what you said it's very similar but im too lazy to go fetch what you said.

But basically your's was like a wash off of the exact same thing I was thinking when I made my theory. With missing a couple things.

[quote]SandTrout wrote...

The likelihood of a race advanced enough for interstellar travel allowing itself to go extinct is low, and outside factors almost certainly played a role. However, there is no quantitative proof that the Leviathan is related in any way to the reapers. Possible, even probable? Yes. Certain? Not quite.
That discussion is going nowhere.

Any more theories?[/quote]
No it is not low at all. It has happened every 50 thousand years for roughly a billion years. The reapers are could go to other galaxy's. Outside factors did play a role there galaxy was dieing do you understand? the black hole in middle became critical and was swallowing up there galaxy. Or god knows how it was dieing.

I know i was not certain but I have a strong feeling about that one though we will see soon maybe?

I disagree we have gotten a lot of good ones that I rather like a lot. Though you think it is not productive is your own concern and you haven't really said why everyone's is not productive. i have read them ALL. I like most of them but some have too many holes that are way too big. Mine had very small ones with the exception of how they came to be because we have no clue of that yet.

Modifié par AdamBoozer, 02 mars 2010 - 05:44 .

[AdamBoozer]

Sleepy will finish correcting later but so far we know most of it.

-D7- wrote...

We know that the Reaper's reap every 50k years or so (Liara, ME1). The name Reaper was
given by the Protheans to "name their destruction" (Sovereign diagloge, ME1). Now that name (however inaccurate) implies that they are reaping something, as in a farmer reaping his wheat field, when the crop is
ready. 

From talking to TIM we know that normal collector behavior was that they periodically would pop in. Pay tons of cash to slavers and the like to collect dozen of samples of different species.

From talking to Vigil we know that Sovereign would have to periodically check the status of the galaxy to see if was time to call the other Reapers in.

From the end ME2 cut scene we can assume that the other Reapers had direct communication with the Collectors.

So the Reapers just finished killing/harvesting off the Prothean era races. The Protheans being the dominant species of that cycle (or the most successfully indoctrinated) are then set up to become the collectors for the next cycle (Hypotesis). Sovereign goes to wait at the collector base in a dormant state. Waking every so often to get a
status update from the Collectors (Conjecture form Vigil). More importantly checking the samples being
brought to him so see if whatever genetic/evolutionary marker  that his kind is looking for is present.

At some point the given condition that the Reaper's need is meet and verified by Sovereign and the Collectors. Sovereign tells Harbinger to get ready and sends the signal to the Citadel. Nothing happens (Vigil, ME1). At this point the big concern might be that the keepers might have evolved beyond indoctrination (Vigil, ME1). At this Point plan A is a bust.

Plan B. Sovereign is ordered to go to the Citadel and send the signal directly. He can't just show up and start signaling/hacking since he is the only one and if is safe to assume that at this point the Asari have enough of a fleet to damage him (Asari Super Cap Ship, ME1). Sovereign runs into the Rachni which offers him an easily malleable race, indoctrinate the queens you now control the race (Diag. from ME2 if you saved Rachi queen). Now Sovereign knew the other races would eventually run into them so he prep them to fight the moment they
are discovered. This will provide him with the fodder he needs to get to the Citadel at activate the signal. However the Krogan are found and provide the perfect counter to the Rachni before they were able to reach the Citadel (ME1 Rachi Wars Codex). Plan B is a bust.

Plan C. Sovereign needs another race to act as fodder for him to get close to the Citadel. At some point he finds a Prothean beacon and realizes that the Citadel has been sabotaged by the group of Protheans that escaped notice on Ilos (Conjecture since Soverign was on Vermire). Now the situation is worse since he will now need have a physical link to Citadel central control meaning that an 'inside man' will be needed. At around this time he becomes aware of the Geth and corrupts a group of them (Legion, ME2). He then allows himself to be found   (from the first ME book) and indoctrinates Saren. The rest is the events that occur in ME1 which ends in failure. Plan C is a bust.

Harbinger and the other Reapers are informed (probably by the collectors) what happened to Sovereign (ME2, the fact that they know you by name). Their thinking has to be along the lines of:  Who is this Shepard? What are humans? They only been in the 'scene' for less than a century (ME1, First Contact War)? and they killed one of us?

Now the Reapers are arrogant but with good reason. They have had this cycle thing going for Millions of years with no significant resistance (ME2, derelic reaper). Chances are none of them has died since the one they lost the one you board on ME2. I would be worried that if humans can a kill a reaper with less than century of space xp, what could they do if they had more time? Humanity would now represents a clear and present danger. Shepard would be the embodiment of that threat (Conjecture from ME2).

Plan D. The collectors are ordered to kill/capture Shepard. This eliminates the immediate threat since he is the driving force behind the any kind of anti-reaper preparation (Opening scene ME2).  But humans still pose a long term threat. So a human reaper is ordered to be constructed. My theory on why a human reaper is twofold.
One, the reapers are afraid of what humans can do. They have lost one of their number to the newbies. So they need a human cipher (like Shepard who needed the Prothean Cipher in ME1) to better understand them.
Two, I will assume that a human reaper would be able to indoctrinate humans more efficiently. Saren was
running experiments to test the effect/limits of indoctrination in ME1. If was affecting different people/races at different rate. With indoctrination taking anywhere from days to months. A human reaper should in theory be able to indoctrinate humans in a matter of hours. Vigil said in ME1 that those indoctrinated where used as saboteurs and spies. Humans now playing a more significant role would make the ideal race to indoctrinate since they would be in a position to sabotage the Citadel or allow the new reaper to activate the Citadel relay. This leads to the events in ME2 which ends with Plan D being busted.

Plan E: I read the last line spoken by Harbinger not as one of arrogance but one of frustration. "You failed. We will find another way. Releasing Control." = "It doesn't matter Shepard! You failed because we WILL FIND ANOTHER WAY". So far all efforts by the reapers have been to reactivate the Citadel's relay
functions so their fleet could jump in. I think by that line the Reapers have given up on that idea and will have to come in old school. However many years that would take, setting up events for ME3.

Collectors payed in advanced tech that gave advantge until it was addopted by everyone. Codex says it and various sources. Okeen was proof of this hapenening and so was mordins recruitment mission in a way.

[GnusmasTHX]

Seeing as how I can't understand anything you're saying, I'll just say it like I said it originally:

The Leviathan of Dis is not proof of anything. If you put so much stock on 'proof' as you call it, then I recommend you make appropriate revisions to your original theory on Page 1 of this thread. Or at least revise the list of 'evidence' you have for your theory, because the existence of the Leviathan is not one.

I haven't been wrong so far.

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 02 mars 2010 - 06:02 .

[SandTrout]

AdamBoozer wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

The likelihood of a race advanced enough for interstellar travel allowing itself to go extinct is low, and outside factors almost certainly played a role. However, there is no quantitative proof that the Leviathan is related in any way to the reapers. Possible, even probable? Yes. Certain? Not quite.
That discussion is going nowhere.

Any more theories?

No it is not low at all. It has happened every 50 thousand years for roughly a billion years. The reapers are could go to other galaxy's. Outside factors did play a role there galaxy was dieing do you understand? the black hole in middle became critical and was swallowing up there galaxy. Or god knows how it was dieing.

I know i was not certain but I have a strong feeling about that one though we will see soon maybe?

I disagree we have gotten a lot of good ones that I rather like a lot. Though you think it is not productive is your own concern and you haven't really said why everyone's is not productive. i have read them ALL. I like most of them but some have too many holes that are way too big. Mine had very small ones with the exception of how they came to be because we have no clue of that yet.

You sir, fail at reading comprehesion.

Yes, there has been an extinction roughly every 50k years. You realize that this was because of the Reapers, right? My point was that advanced species don't just up and die, but would require some outside force(IE: The Reapers) to cause their extinction once they reach that level of technology.

And I wasn't saying everyone was being unproductive, just you Gnusmas's debate on the Leviathan. I've been contributing to the on-topic discussion, if you payed any attention. I was really just trying to get the two of you to shut the hell up about it.

[sniper1250]

Well, it's not a reaper theory, but I do have one that revolves around indoctrination and kinda makes a reaper theory. I've posted it in another thread somewhere and it's the idea that indoctrination is achieved by merging a mind into the mass of consciousness of a reaper.

All those beings that had to be melted down to make the reaper are added into the mind of the reaper, as each reaper is a nation in and of itself. The reason that the more control inversely affects an individuals ability to function is because more control is gained by merging a mind more completely into the reaper. Obviously not every being added into a reaper at "conception" is a rocket scientist or a brain surgeon. A lot of material is probably "filler" that is just anyone hardy enough to survive the trip back, hence the piles of bodies on the collector ship. Also shown by the scientist on the derelict reaper, they began to share memories. Even when the original mind of a reaper is destroyed, it tries to build a new one.

It could also be argued that the way people die while being added to the reaper affect how their minds add to the mass consciousness that controls the reaper. That is, the reason you have to fight the human-reaper larva is that all those colonists died in pain and fear, and so when they wake up with all these other thoughts in their head and you shooting at them, they lash out instructively. Perhaps while "building" a reaper they keep it "asleep" until it is finished, similar to how if you woke up in the middle of a surgery, you would freak out too. Which you do in the beginning of ME2.

Now, all nations have leaders or leading parties except a pure democracy, and since computers usually have specializations, I'm going to assume that a reaper would have a leadership program. This is where Shepard comes in. The reaper-larva needs a brain, one that can command so many voices into a consensus by will alone. This might be where the Protheans failed to become a full reaper. Harbinger tried, but there was no single voice that could rally or force all other voices in the Prothean-reaper into submission. They needed Shepard so that when the reaper-larva was ready to be awoken, his/her mind could be added to "calm" it. Nazara might have been such an individual, hence a reaper having an individual name like you give to Legion.



As for how the reapers started doing all this, who knows? They probably don't even remember. But seeing as how the Geth have separate factions, perhaps the reapers do too. Maybe the first species to become a reaper invented the technology as an ark, to preserve their race through a time when the galaxy destroys itself so it can rebuild.

The first reaper then returned peacefully to offer this escape to the next race to rise up a few tens of thousands of years later, and so on. Until at some point, a very admirable species refused to become reapers to survived this natural galactic event. Some reapers decided that they didn't get to chose death and had to "ascend," thus starting the new method of forcing species to become reapers.

At some point, it gets twisted into a timed cycle, instead of just when the galaxy starts to implode on itself, and some reapers get the mindset of just killing everything. So on the one hand, you have Soverign, who wants to call forth the reaper fleet and kill all life, and on the other you have Harbinger, who wants to continue the age old tradition of forced ascension into the reaper ranks. All Soverign needs is a few other like minded reapers and a galactic extinction can begin, and all Harbinger needs is one human reaper to prove the value of the current living galaxy.

I'm kinda tired but I think I was able to place most of my theories somewhere. I'll check back tomorrow to see if it makes sense.

[SandTrout]

Here's a point to discuss, did Sovereign intend to run a clean sweep, or was 'ascendance' its goal from the beginning? I consider this a low probability myself as Harbingers seems to discard other races as possibilities, and humans are the only ones that have sufficiently distinguished ourselves by destroying Sovereign.

Sov never revealed the true nature of the reapers to anyone, even Saren, so it may still be possible that they either were going to ascend all the species or figure it out during the invasion.

[PooPoomonster]

It will probably turn out to be a deturrent to some other event that wipes out all life and is a threat to Reapers. Hopefully it wont be as lame as "You organics only know war and will destroy each other, but we will make you one." I guess that would hinge on a new highly lethal piece of technology being developed.

[SandTrout]

Reapers saving us from some previously unknown calamity would be incredibly lame and not fit the storyline at all. If they wanted to save us from something that is as obvious a threat as exploding stars and what-not, they wouldn't need to destroy our fleets and attempt to wipe out our governments. They could just show up and say "Hey, check this **** out. We have a way to save you, but its a bit unpleasant," and they wouldn't have a problem. Sure, there might be some riots or minor civil wars, but they would still probably have the major governments and militaries on their side.

Them coming to force us into their version of ascendance isn't that lame. Usually the bad guys just want to kill us for being in their way and taking up resources they want to use instead.

[Llandaryn]

What makes this thread "official"? Is it endorsed by Bioware?

[Reptilian Rob]

I think the Reapers were created billions of years ago to help organics. I believe based on what Harbinger said "We are your salvation through destruction, you have caught the attention of those infinitely greater than yourself" that the Reapers are here to protect organics from something far worse than death. Perhaps another, more malevolent race is out there waiting to prey upon the galaxy and the Reapers are our only hope.

[AdamBoozer]

GnusmasTHX wrote...
Seeing as how I can't understand anything you're saying, I'll just say it like I said it originally:
The Leviathan of Dis is not proof of anything. If you put so much stock on 'proof' as you call it, then I recommend you make appropriate revisions to your original theory on Page 1 of this thread. Or at least revise the list of 'evidence' you have for your theory, because the existence of the Leviathan is not one.
I haven't been wrong so far.

Im afraid you haven't presented enough evidence (none at all but your opinion actually) for that to be overturned. I how ever have just given you a mountain of data and proof and sources.
If you cannot understand what I am saying I suggest you go to another thread
Now unless you have some actual proof I see no need for me to change anything on my theory at this time. Thank you for you're oppinon on the matter.

SandTrout wrote...

AdamBoozer wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

The likelihood of a race advanced enough for interstellar travel allowing itself to go extinct is low, and outside factors almost certainly played a role. However, there is no quantitative proof that the Leviathan is related in any way to the reapers. Possible, even probable? Yes. Certain? Not quite.
That discussion is going nowhere.

Any more theories?

No it is not low at all. It has happened every 50 thousand years for roughly a billion years. The reapers are could go to other galaxy's. Outside factors did play a role there galaxy was dieing do you understand? the black hole in middle became critical and was swallowing up there galaxy. Or god knows how it was dieing.

I know i was not certain but I have a strong feeling about that one though we will see soon maybe?

I disagree we have gotten a lot of good ones that I rather like a lot. Though you think it is not productive is your own concern and you haven't really said why everyone's is not productive. i have read them ALL. I like most of them but some have too many holes that are way too big. Mine had very small ones with the exception of how they came to be because we have no clue of that yet.

You sir, fail at reading comprehesion.

Yes, there has been an extinction roughly every 50k years. You realize that this was because of the Reapers, right? My point was that advanced species don't just up and die, but would require some outside force(IE: The Reapers) to cause their extinction once they reach that level of technology.

And I wasn't saying everyone was being unproductive, just you Gnusmas's debate on the Leviathan. I've been contributing to the on-topic discussion, if you payed any attention. I was really just trying to get the two of you to shut the hell up about it.

Yeah he has been a pain in the ass making me show him proof and correcting him. So im not going to do that anymore. Really drains me when it comes to reading everyoneelses.

You're point was also mine. The reapers responisble for the reapers leaving there galaxy in my theory? lol I must suck at reading comprehension though I did pass that part of the grad exam so it can't be that bad.

I agree they don't just up an die that's why I had thought it would have to be a majoir event to cause this race to create the reapers, then I thought it would be possible to download the memorys into seperate bodys though cloneing and advanced nano tech they could make the bodies again and de reaper. Like in my theory.

I i am sorry you did not like the discussion. But I can't stand it when people say false information and then try to pass it off like it's true. That's why you have to show sources (part of the reason anyway) I must correct people on that so not everyone goes OH really that must be right.

I know your contributing I didn't say you weren't. I like your ideals I just don't agree But think it could be possible.

Weskerr wrote...

This is only a suspicion on my part, but the Reapers may have developed into their final form in the same way that the Geth wish to conglomorate into a Dyson Sphere-like structure. Perhaps the Reapers started off as a purely synthetic species, like the Geth, and after coalescing into a sphere then decided that adding organic components to their own anatomy -so to speak - was the next and best step of evolutionary advancement.

I'm basing this in part on the discussions Shepard has with Legion. Since the Geth are purely synthetic and the Reapers are partly synthetic, I think it's possible that at one point the Reapers were purely synthetic. Since the Geth's way of thinking is just mathematics, and mathematics is inherently logical, perhaps the Geth will inevitably come to the same conclusion as the Reapers - that is if the Reapers were really ever just synthetic - and try to integrate organics into their anatomy.

If my theory is true then the implications are scary. The Reapers foreshadow what the Geth will ultimately become.

posible but what are you thoughts on who made the machines and what happened to them?

Your saying they saw the advantage of organics?

Modifié par AdamBoozer, 02 mars 2010 - 10:37 .

[Weskerr]

AdamBoozer wrote...


posible but what are you thoughts on who made the machines and what happened to them?

Your saying they saw the advantage of organics?

Well I really have no idea who could have created the Reapers as synthetic machines. The people who created them could have had the same intentions as the Quarians when they built the Geth. That is, they built them to perform various menial tasks that they couldn't or did not want to perform themselves. The whole process might have paralleled what happened between the Quarians and the Geth. Who really knows though.

In response to your second question, yes. I think they saw, assuming that the Reapers were first purely synthetic, that integrating organics with themselves was an evolutionary advantage - to them at least.