Many people are angry that the ME squadmates, particularly Asley/Kaidan and Liara were reduced to cameo roles in ME2. However, the devs have said they were not recruitable in 2 so that they could have a role in ME3. This suggests that they will have a plot-critical role in ME3 along the lines of Alistair, Bastila, or Saren. So, what would you have preferred:
1. A small role in 2 with a probably large role in 3.
2. Being recruitable in ME2. This would mean they could die in the suicide mission amd could not have a critical role in ME3. They may still be recruitable, but their roles would have to be similar to Leliana because they would be dead in some players' games.
How would you have preferred the ME squadmates be handled
Débuté par
jtav
, mars 02 2010 03:03
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#2
Posté 02 mars 2010 - 03:08
Nozybidaj
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Neither. They should have had proper roles in ME2, and if the plan is to have them with large roles in ME3, have them get kidnapped when the Collectors attacked before going through the relay. Problem solved. Saying "they aren't in ME2 to protect them for ME3" is a pretty weak excuse and just blowing smoke.
#3
Posté 02 mars 2010 - 03:15
Mnemnosyne
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A large role in 2 and 3.
They wouldn't necessarily have had to be party members and thus able to die to be treated respectably and have had a larger role. Liara could have been a major character, giving you information and such that the Illusive Man leaves out. She could have been a 'second option' for Shepard to basically go 'screw you, Illusive Man' and get information from Liara instead, such that she could be the source of all the same missions - or at least give additional information on each of them, like when the Illusive Man sends you to the Collector ship, Liara could bring up the turian code thing, and tell you it's a trap, but worth going into anyway, so you can go in prepared.
In addition, switching most of the random N7 missions for missions that Liara gives you, tangentially related to either the Shadow Broker or your main quest, would have been good and appropriate for her position as an information broker on Illium. I get that the Shadow Broker thing is probably going to be a significant part of ME3, but it wouldn't have hurt to build on it more than just Liara's mentions of it in ME2. Have Shepard be actively involved in seeking out information and helping her when she needs it.
As for Ashley/Kaidan, they could have been your Alliance contact, and kept you apprised of what the Alliance is doing in the situation. They're a little harder to make a major player, but they could have had the Alliance seeming to do something instead of being mostly useless. At least have a conversation with them after each major mission, brief them on what's going on, and have them work on things from that angle. It wouldn't have had to change anything actually in-game, just have such topics brought up so we know that stuff is happening.
Edit: But most of all, I would have liked stronger personal relationships with the old LI. If it was Liara, there's no reason you can't have 'off-hours' time when you go to dinner with her, talk about things, have an intimate conversation about her and Shepard's feelings over the events of the past two years, and such.
Similar thing with Kaidan or Ashley. Even if we kept the plot exactly the same with them blowing up at you on Horizon, after the apology letter they could ask Shepard to meet them on the Citadel for dinner and talking and such.
They wouldn't necessarily have had to be party members and thus able to die to be treated respectably and have had a larger role. Liara could have been a major character, giving you information and such that the Illusive Man leaves out. She could have been a 'second option' for Shepard to basically go 'screw you, Illusive Man' and get information from Liara instead, such that she could be the source of all the same missions - or at least give additional information on each of them, like when the Illusive Man sends you to the Collector ship, Liara could bring up the turian code thing, and tell you it's a trap, but worth going into anyway, so you can go in prepared.
In addition, switching most of the random N7 missions for missions that Liara gives you, tangentially related to either the Shadow Broker or your main quest, would have been good and appropriate for her position as an information broker on Illium. I get that the Shadow Broker thing is probably going to be a significant part of ME3, but it wouldn't have hurt to build on it more than just Liara's mentions of it in ME2. Have Shepard be actively involved in seeking out information and helping her when she needs it.
As for Ashley/Kaidan, they could have been your Alliance contact, and kept you apprised of what the Alliance is doing in the situation. They're a little harder to make a major player, but they could have had the Alliance seeming to do something instead of being mostly useless. At least have a conversation with them after each major mission, brief them on what's going on, and have them work on things from that angle. It wouldn't have had to change anything actually in-game, just have such topics brought up so we know that stuff is happening.
Edit: But most of all, I would have liked stronger personal relationships with the old LI. If it was Liara, there's no reason you can't have 'off-hours' time when you go to dinner with her, talk about things, have an intimate conversation about her and Shepard's feelings over the events of the past two years, and such.
Similar thing with Kaidan or Ashley. Even if we kept the plot exactly the same with them blowing up at you on Horizon, after the apology letter they could ask Shepard to meet them on the Citadel for dinner and talking and such.
Modifié par Koyasha, 02 mars 2010 - 03:18 .
#4
Posté 02 mars 2010 - 04:01
Collider
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Uh no, actually, as the crew can get killed if you don't save them fast enough. Why would Ashley or Kaidan be the exception?Nozybidaj wrote...
have them get kidnapped when the Collectors attacked before going through the relay. Problem solved.
Bioware already made it clear they did this intentionally. They wanted to make sure that they survived so they can have bigger roles in ME3. Jeez.Saying "they aren't in ME2 to protect them for ME3" is a pretty weak excuse and just blowing smoke.
#5
Posté 02 mars 2010 - 04:07
Nightwriter
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Nozybidaj wrote...
Neither. They should have had proper roles in ME2, and if the plan is to have them with large roles in ME3, have them get kidnapped when the Collectors attacked before going through the relay. Problem solved. Saying "they aren't in ME2 to protect them for ME3" is a pretty weak excuse and just blowing smoke.
I considered this. I bet they shot down this idea because they really wanted you to feel free to explore new romances in ME2.
How likely would you have been to romance someone new if your old LI had been kidnapped and you were on a mission to save them?
#6
Posté 02 mars 2010 - 04:11
Nozybidaj
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Nightwriter wrote...
Nozybidaj wrote...
Neither. They should have had proper roles in ME2, and if the plan is to have them with large roles in ME3, have them get kidnapped when the Collectors attacked before going through the relay. Problem solved. Saying "they aren't in ME2 to protect them for ME3" is a pretty weak excuse and just blowing smoke.
I considered this. I bet they shot down this idea because they really wanted you to feel free to explore new romances in ME2.
How likely would you have been to romance someone new if your old LI had been kidnapped and you were on a mission to save them?
About as likely as I was without them even being in the game.
#7
Posté 02 mars 2010 - 04:13
Collider
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This is how I suspect and hope the squad mates to be handled.
All or most of the squad mates from ME1 and ME 2 will return. If it's most instead of all, it should be all of the love interests, except possibly Jack and Jacob who seem to be the least popular romance options.
If x squad mate that died would have had a notable position in ME3, then another NPC may assume that position instead. This NPC would not be a squad mate. For example, it can be just as how Wrex was handled. If Wrex was killed, another Krogan took control of the Urdnot clan.
This is the last game of the trilogy, Bioware doesn't have to worry about importing ME3 to ME4. They can go all out, and give the fans what they want.
Also, related polls:
social.bioware.com/892908/polls/1974/
social.bioware.com/892908/polls/2652/
All or most of the squad mates from ME1 and ME 2 will return. If it's most instead of all, it should be all of the love interests, except possibly Jack and Jacob who seem to be the least popular romance options.
If x squad mate that died would have had a notable position in ME3, then another NPC may assume that position instead. This NPC would not be a squad mate. For example, it can be just as how Wrex was handled. If Wrex was killed, another Krogan took control of the Urdnot clan.
This is the last game of the trilogy, Bioware doesn't have to worry about importing ME3 to ME4. They can go all out, and give the fans what they want.
Also, related polls:
social.bioware.com/892908/polls/1974/
social.bioware.com/892908/polls/2652/
#8
Posté 02 mars 2010 - 04:16
Nightwriter
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Nozybidaj wrote...
Nightwriter wrote...
Nozybidaj wrote...
Neither. They should have had proper roles in ME2, and if the plan is to have them with large roles in ME3, have them get kidnapped when the Collectors attacked before going through the relay. Problem solved. Saying "they aren't in ME2 to protect them for ME3" is a pretty weak excuse and just blowing smoke.
I considered this. I bet they shot down this idea because they really wanted you to feel free to explore new romances in ME2.
How likely would you have been to romance someone new if your old LI had been kidnapped and you were on a mission to save them?
About as likely as I was without them even being in the game.
You are a staunch ME1 LI fan, I see. Well, you see what I mean anyway. The people who might have been enticed toward these new LIs might have felt too guilty to pursue them. They might even have played through the whole game romance free just to rescue their LI and see where the relationship picked up.
And if there's anything that was clear to me in the game, it's that Bioware really wanted you to try these new romances.
#9
Posté 02 mars 2010 - 04:18
jlb524
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Nightwriter wrote...
I considered this. I bet they shot down this idea because they really wanted you to feel free to explore new romances in ME2.
How likely would you have been to romance someone new if your old LI had been kidnapped and you were on a mission to save them?
Who wants to explore new romances in ME2? Certainly not I.
#11
Posté 02 mars 2010 - 04:23
jlb524
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I would have preferred the ME1 LIs to be squad mates in ME2, but I would have accepted them as non-squad mates if their cameo roles didn't suck and were meaningful. I almost feel like they're forcing the new ME2 LIs on us by making the old ones distant, unavailable, and cold towards Shepard.
#12
Posté 02 mars 2010 - 04:34
Nightwriter
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jlb524 wrote...
I would have preferred the ME1 LIs to be squad mates in ME2, but I would have accepted them as non-squad mates if their cameo roles didn't suck and were meaningful. I almost feel like they're forcing the new ME2 LIs on us by making the old ones distant, unavailable, and cold towards Shepard.
They are doing this. It's sad.
It's all the sadder for me because I don't feel that the new LIs need all these cheap tricks to attract their own fan base. The characters they created are good and they appealed to me as much as Liara did to you. I feel they should stand for themselves. There's no need for all this string pulling.
I would have preferred it if they had worked out some way where you and your old LI had a conversation, and you decided to take a break. Put your relationship on hold. Things are crazy and complicated, you're both involved with very important things that take priority, and you agree to wait and see what happens when it all blows over.
#13
Posté 02 mars 2010 - 04:37
Collider
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You're perfectly able to turn down the new romance options. It's pretty clear the romance from ME1 will continue to ME3. Then, the ME1 and ME2 romances will be on equal footing.
#14
Posté 02 mars 2010 - 04:40
Zulmoka531
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Kinda wished I could have talked to Ash/Kaiden on the Citadel, maybe in the embassy, after Horizon.
Get a real apology for the..meeting we had, instead of a silly email on my ship
Get a real apology for the..meeting we had, instead of a silly email on my ship
#15
Posté 02 mars 2010 - 04:42
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Liara = 95%
Legion, probably on a new platform. = 80%
Ashley/Kaidan. 99% recruitable, but hopfully there will be a choice to reject/kill them.
+ about 5 new squadmates (Human, Drell, Salarian, Batarian, male Quarian)
As for the Krogan and Turian squadmates, I think it will be Grunt and Garrus.
After some thinking, I reckon the best thing they can do in order to "bring back" ME2 squadmates is this: Free Day 1 DLC "Squadmate Pack", containing Grunt, Garrus, Zaeed, maybe Jack or Kasumi. The charachters, useful in combat, but with limited connection to the main story (with no power position in-game), other that they are Shep's buddies. Little dialogue, even less character development, zero impact on the story. Other ME2 squadmates will be NPCed into the main plot, and will possibly suffer some significant charachter development due to player's treatment of them in ME2. Of course, all of them available in the game only if survived on the "suicide mission".
That makes up to 12 squadmates with heavy presence of the surviving cast.
At least, if they pull something like that, Casey Hudson will have solid ground to say: "Look, we tried hard to please everyone, without damaging the the plot-driven game, that is the final part of a trilogy. What's the problem with you, haters?"
Personally I'd like them to cater much less to the characters' fanbase and concentrate on the sci-fi component of the game.
Legion, probably on a new platform. = 80%
Ashley/Kaidan. 99% recruitable, but hopfully there will be a choice to reject/kill them.
+ about 5 new squadmates (Human, Drell, Salarian, Batarian, male Quarian)
As for the Krogan and Turian squadmates, I think it will be Grunt and Garrus.
After some thinking, I reckon the best thing they can do in order to "bring back" ME2 squadmates is this: Free Day 1 DLC "Squadmate Pack", containing Grunt, Garrus, Zaeed, maybe Jack or Kasumi. The charachters, useful in combat, but with limited connection to the main story (with no power position in-game), other that they are Shep's buddies. Little dialogue, even less character development, zero impact on the story. Other ME2 squadmates will be NPCed into the main plot, and will possibly suffer some significant charachter development due to player's treatment of them in ME2. Of course, all of them available in the game only if survived on the "suicide mission".
That makes up to 12 squadmates with heavy presence of the surviving cast.
At least, if they pull something like that, Casey Hudson will have solid ground to say: "Look, we tried hard to please everyone, without damaging the the plot-driven game, that is the final part of a trilogy. What's the problem with you, haters?"
Personally I'd like them to cater much less to the characters' fanbase and concentrate on the sci-fi component of the game.
#16
Posté 02 mars 2010 - 04:44
Nozybidaj
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Nightwriter wrote...
Nozybidaj wrote...
Nightwriter wrote...
Nozybidaj wrote...
Neither. They should have had proper roles in ME2, and if the plan is to have them with large roles in ME3, have them get kidnapped when the Collectors attacked before going through the relay. Problem solved. Saying "they aren't in ME2 to protect them for ME3" is a pretty weak excuse and just blowing smoke.
I considered this. I bet they shot down this idea because they really wanted you to feel free to explore new romances in ME2.
How likely would you have been to romance someone new if your old LI had been kidnapped and you were on a mission to save them?
About as likely as I was without them even being in the game.
You are a staunch ME1 LI fan, I see. Well, you see what I mean anyway. The people who might have been enticed toward these new LIs might have felt too guilty to pursue them. They might even have played through the whole game romance free just to rescue their LI and see where the relationship picked up.
And if there's anything that was clear to me in the game, it's that Bioware really wanted you to try these new romances.
I see the point you are trying to make but I disagree it was needed. Either let the new LI's stand on their own or if they aren't good enough then scrap them. If you have to completely pull the old LI's out of the game for folks to even be interested in them you have already failed at making interesting characters.
In fact, for folks like myself, pulling the old characters actually severly hampered by ability to connect with the new characters. If I didn't have this overwhelming sense of disappointment in ME2 I might have given the game a few extra playthroughs just to see these new romances. However I feel completely uncompelled to even bother. By the time I did a single/Shep Tali romance and my two male/femaleShep/Liara games just to stay faithful I had no reason to bother playing any more.
Instead of BW just admitting defeat right up front and pulling the old LI's as a gimmick to try and make the new ones attractive they should have just picked up where they left off in ME1 and concentrated on fewer new characters and actually gave me a compelling reason to try the new romances out.
#17
Posté 02 mars 2010 - 04:46
Nozybidaj
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Collider wrote...
You're perfectly able to turn down the new romance options. It's pretty clear the romance from ME1 will continue to ME3. Then, the ME1 and ME2 romances will be on equal footing.
No they won't be. Unless we get dlc/expansions to "restart" the ME1 romances the ME2 romances are ready to run right into ME3 without a hiccup while the ME1 romances are back to square one basically. If I have to spend all of ME3 just to get my ME1 romance back to where it was prior to ME2 I don't think there are enough /slapforehead pictures on the internet to register that level of fail.
#18
Posté 02 mars 2010 - 04:50
Sharn01
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I will pose a question for a question.
We where told the ME1 character's where being left out of ME2 because they needed to survive to fulfill a large role in ME3. When ME3 comes out, if any of the ME2 squadmates have large roles, does that not make the reason for leaving out the ME1 character's completely pointless?
To answer the question, they should have had a larger non-squadmate role in ME2. They have given large and important roles to character's in the past without them being squadmates, there was no reason to leave these character's so poorly done, and make Shepard's dialog with them completely lacking even the most basic common sense.
They may have made their appearance poor intentionally to pat themselves on the back for the new LI's, but really there is no reason for it. The new LI will draw mostly the same player's from ME1 that they already did, there would be a small percentage who cheated who would not normally have, but not a huge amount, and new player's to ME2 would not be cheating at all.
We where told the ME1 character's where being left out of ME2 because they needed to survive to fulfill a large role in ME3. When ME3 comes out, if any of the ME2 squadmates have large roles, does that not make the reason for leaving out the ME1 character's completely pointless?
To answer the question, they should have had a larger non-squadmate role in ME2. They have given large and important roles to character's in the past without them being squadmates, there was no reason to leave these character's so poorly done, and make Shepard's dialog with them completely lacking even the most basic common sense.
They may have made their appearance poor intentionally to pat themselves on the back for the new LI's, but really there is no reason for it. The new LI will draw mostly the same player's from ME1 that they already did, there would be a small percentage who cheated who would not normally have, but not a huge amount, and new player's to ME2 would not be cheating at all.
#19
Posté 02 mars 2010 - 04:53
Nozybidaj
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Sharn01 wrote...
I will pose a question for a question.
We where told the ME1 character's where being left out of ME2 because they needed to survive to fulfill a large role in ME3. When ME3 comes out, if any of the ME2 squadmates have large roles, does that not make the reason for leaving out the ME1 character's completely pointless?
To answer the question, they should have had a larger non-squadmate role in ME2. They have given large and important roles to character's in the past without them being squadmates, there was no reason to leave these character's so poorly done, and make Shepard's dialog with them completely lacking even the most basic common sense.
They may have made their appearance poor intentionally to pat themselves on the back for the new LI's, but really there is no reason for it. The new LI will draw mostly the same player's from ME1 that they already did, there would be a small percentage who cheated who would not normally have, but not a huge amount, and new player's to ME2 would not be cheating at all.
This and is one of the reasons I hope to see most of the ME2 squad with fairly short and generic appearances in ME3. Otherwise what was the point of not having the ME1 cast in ME2?
#20
Posté 02 mars 2010 - 04:56
Nightwriter
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Nozybidaj wrote...
I see the point you are trying to make but I disagree it was needed. Either let the new LI's stand on their own or if they aren't good enough then scrap them. If you have to completely pull the old LI's out of the game for folks to even be interested in them you have already failed at making interesting characters.
In fact, for folks like myself, pulling the old characters actually severly hampered by ability to connect with the new characters. If I didn't have this overwhelming sense of disappointment in ME2 I might have given the game a few extra playthroughs just to see these new romances. However I feel completely uncompelled to even bother. By the time I did a single/Shep Tali romance and my two male/femaleShep/Liara games just to stay faithful I had no reason to bother playing any more.
Instead of BW just admitting defeat right up front and pulling the old LI's as a gimmick to try and make the new ones attractive they should have just picked up where they left off in ME1 and concentrated on fewer new characters and actually gave me a compelling reason to try the new romances out.
I've already said I found their handling of the old LIs quite unnecessary. I thought the new romances were incredibly compelling, and I loved the new LIs. I'd be as crushed to find their roles downsized in ME3 as you were about the LI roles in ME2.
I don't know why they felt they had to do it this way. Lots of people loved the new LIs. They would have drawn me to them on their own. They were good.
#21
Posté 02 mars 2010 - 04:59
Nozybidaj
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Nightwriter wrote...
Nozybidaj wrote...
I see the point you are trying to make but I disagree it was needed. Either let the new LI's stand on their own or if they aren't good enough then scrap them. If you have to completely pull the old LI's out of the game for folks to even be interested in them you have already failed at making interesting characters.
In fact, for folks like myself, pulling the old characters actually severly hampered by ability to connect with the new characters. If I didn't have this overwhelming sense of disappointment in ME2 I might have given the game a few extra playthroughs just to see these new romances. However I feel completely uncompelled to even bother. By the time I did a single/Shep Tali romance and my two male/femaleShep/Liara games just to stay faithful I had no reason to bother playing any more.
Instead of BW just admitting defeat right up front and pulling the old LI's as a gimmick to try and make the new ones attractive they should have just picked up where they left off in ME1 and concentrated on fewer new characters and actually gave me a compelling reason to try the new romances out.
I've already said I found their handling of the old LIs quite unnecessary. I thought the new romances were incredibly compelling, and I loved the new LIs. I'd be as crushed to find their roles downsized in ME3 as you were about the LI roles in ME2.
I don't know why they felt they had to do it this way. Lots of people loved the new LIs. They would have drawn me to them on their own. They were good.
Agreed, and don't take the negativity in that post personally, it is entirely directed at BW, not you.
