26 réponses à ce sujet

[A Puzzled Mind]

Still boggles my mind even though I've seen multiple explainations.

[Maria Caliban]

Human cooties.

[Highdragonslayer]

They didn't construct enough pylons

[mhendon]

Maybe they were never immortal. It's possible it was just an elven legend that came about through cultural awe (OMG! These pointy eared people live really long!). I mean, it was so long ago, how could anyone know for sure? I don't want that to be true, but I feel that its a strong possibility. Their explanation is that, somehow, the human's way of life gave them a spiritual disease, and since elves are supposed to be the most connected to the fade and spirituality and such it ended up affecting them physically and their actual lifespan.



It's an interesting subject and I would be much pleased if we got more of a chance to explore it in the future.

[mousestalker]

Their ovens overheated and burned down the bakery trees where they lived and worked. Since they could no longer make their magical cookies, they no longer had immortality.

[Erucolindo]

You know what, it's cheap. Apparently, according to a codex entry, it was merely having contact with humans..proximity over a period of time. No touching required, just being in the same space as them..like the same area, and poof goes the Immortality.



If you ask me, that's some cheap immortality right there. Racist immortality to. Plus, Humans keep putting them down seemingly so easily. Every race prolly harbors some racism towards every other race. or at least some prejudice. It just shows you how utterly stupid racism is. It's even dumber in real life because there aren't different races of humans. However, I severly digress. I blame my ADD.



Anyways, Humans and Elves started interacting, and BAM! No more immortality.

[krylo]

I tend to bend toward 'they were never really immortal'. Uthenera sounds a lot like a funeral to me, and the immortality may have merely been hyperbole as many cultures describe their deaths as merely sleeping or continuing to live in a different manner.

Or perhaps it was some sort of blood magic ritual performed on the birth, or adulthood, of elves much like what Zathrien did with the Lady of the Forest--but minus the whole curse thing, and the knowledge was simply lost as human culture over rode elven culture.

Or perhaps a thousand other explanations.

It's never adequately explained.

Modifié par krylo, 02 mars 2010 - 04:00 .

[Drasanil]

'Cause Bioware decreed that it shall be so.

The in game explination is kind of rubbish, I'm hoping it gets clarified/retconned into something a little less absurd.

Untill Bioware comes up with something better I'm just pretending that the permanent loss of immortality had something to do with the Tevinter Magisters discovering that Arlathan Elves were really really usefull for blood magic and drained the immortality out of them over the course of a few generations as they used them to fuel their higher end magic, leaving the elves in the sorry state they are now.

It's also convenient in that it explains why the Dalish have started to age more slowly than city elves, they're descended from the oldest  and strongest bloodlines dating back to Arlathan, making them more likely be the first to recover some of their lost mojo.

Modifié par Drasanil, 02 mars 2010 - 04:11 .

[Erucolindo]

Plenty of things like this are left up in the air in the game, by design, and it's a good choice. However, it would be really cheap i think to find out that the elves immortality was a myth or an exaggeration, and it would make there fall from grace less so. It's one thing to be a slave to another race. That's horrid. However, if that other races steals from you your immortality and your very culture and way of being, then that's just unspeakable. It really makes the Elves a tragic race as I think are the Dwarves because of the loss of the Deep Roads and of their Empire.

[IanPolaris]

Agreed. The Elves of Thedas are perhaps the most tragic race in the game. Look at it objectively and you see that the Elves are completely boned as a people. Hunter-Gatherer Dalish tribes will never have the power or clout to regain an Elven homeland nor will the Chantry permit one to exist for very long. From looking at the Dalish, they seem to be a last gasp failing effort to preserve something and it's my assessment that there are fewer and fewer Dalish with each passing decade.



As for the City Elves (including Circle of Magi Elves), they are a dead-race walking. They live amoung humans, serve humans, and quite pointedly often sleep with humans (consent being optional) and since any coupling between Elves and the much more numerous humans generates a human (always), by inbreeding alone, Elves will become extinct within a thousand years or so tops.



Frankly given the dying and insular nature of both the Dalish Clans and Elven Alienages, I expect Elves to be completly or nearly completely extinct far sooner (a couple of centuries would be my best guess).



-Polaris

[Erucolindo]

IanPolaris wrote...

Agreed. The Elves of Thedas are perhaps the most tragic race in the game. Look at it objectively and you see that the Elves are completely boned as a people. Hunter-Gatherer Dalish tribes will never have the power or clout to regain an Elven homeland nor will the Chantry permit one to exist for very long. From looking at the Dalish, they seem to be a last gasp failing effort to preserve something and it's my assessment that there are fewer and fewer Dalish with each passing decade.

As for the City Elves (including Circle of Magi Elves), they are a dead-race walking. They live amoung humans, serve humans, and quite pointedly often sleep with humans (consent being optional) and since any coupling between Elves and the much more numerous humans generates a human (always), by inbreeding alone, Elves will become extinct within a thousand years or so tops.

Frankly given the dying and insular nature of both the Dalish Clans and Elven Alienages, I expect Elves to be completly or nearly completely extinct far sooner (a couple of centuries would be my best guess).

-Polaris

That assumes that the state of Elves in Ferelden never changes. I remember getting to mention something about it to Anora on my very first play through as a city Elf. Who's to say that, because the hero warden was a city elf, that the state of Elves will change.

The Chantry may not last forever, or at the very least it's power could weaken at some point. If they are supposed to be a metaphore for the Catholic Church, then they will weaken. If that happens, or if a large enough group of Elves went outside Thedas (i don't think the Chantry exist everywhere in this world) they could become a strong nation eventually. I would like to see that actually. It could mirror the Elves of Middle Earth.

Middle Earth Elves are few, but that is because all of them have gone to Valinor to live. if DA Elves did something similar..

[mhendon]

IanPolaris wrote...

. They live amoung humans, serve humans, and quite pointedly often sleep with humans (consent being optional) and since any coupling between Elves and the much more numerous humans generates a human (always), by inbreeding alone, Elves will become extinct within a thousand years or so tops.


-Polaris

Where does it say this???!  That's...like...suck.... I half elves...


Bioware, thanks for making the most inept elves in history.

[IanPolaris]

mhendon wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

. They live amoung humans, serve humans, and quite pointedly often sleep with humans (consent being optional) and since any coupling between Elves and the much more numerous humans generates a human (always), by inbreeding alone, Elves will become extinct within a thousand years or so tops.


-Polaris

Where does it say this???!  That's...like...suck.... I half elves...


Bioware, thanks for making the most inept elves in history.

I believe that DG on several occassions has said that the product of a human with an elf is always human.

-Polaris

[Ivellios goladon]

Highdragonslayer wrote...

They didn't construct enough pylons

ROFL. I like this idea.

[Maria Caliban]

And an elf and dwarf would likewise be a dwarf.

[Daerog]

IanPolaris wrote...

I believe that DG on several occassions has said that the product of a human with an elf is always human.

-Polaris

And an elf with a dwarf will produce a dwarf! They have "adaptive" genes or whatever. Think of it as the opposite of the asari.

[Leonia]

mhendon wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

. They live amoung humans, serve humans, and quite pointedly often sleep with humans (consent being optional) and since any coupling between Elves and the much more numerous humans generates a human (always), by inbreeding alone, Elves will become extinct within a thousand years or so tops.


-Polaris

Where does it say this???!  That's...like...suck.... I half elves...


Bioware, thanks for making the most inept elves in history.

Fiona and Maric produced a human child (Fiona being an Elf and Maric a human). Now we could debate who that child really is, but basically, it was decided then by Gaider that all Human-Elf pairings result in Human children. I think even Shianni or another elf in the Alienage mentions this. That's why the elves in the Alienage get so excited about weddings that don't involve humans.

[ObserverStatus]

mhendon wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

. They live amoung humans, serve humans, and quite pointedly often sleep with humans (consent being optional) and since any coupling between Elves and the much more numerous humans generates a human (always), by inbreeding alone, Elves will become extinct within a thousand years or so tops.


-Polaris

Where does it say this???!  That's...like...suck.... I half elves...


Bioware, thanks for making the most inept elves in history.

I like them better than those condescending elves from most other fantasy franchises.

[Charsen]

What about elves in other countries? I don't know much about the outside countries from my first play-through. There's the Free Marches, Orlais, Antiva and the Qun... Sten did say that they had elves in his homeland though. Are all elves everywhere similarly mortal? Does it go into that at all? If not, I hope it comes up.

[Default137]

Sex or they never were Immortal.



As Gaider said, alot of the lore in this game is told from the viewpoint of the people who told it, the Elves largely dislike humans for everything they have done to them, so why not say that it was humans who ruined their perfect utopia thousands of years ago? Its not like any living elf today would know what really happened, this was centuries ago, and everyone was dead, so its all hearsay told by older elves who are angry at their lot in life.



It could also be a twist in wording ( its to late for me to remember the actual term ), where the elves ended up sleeping with the humans of old, and because of it, it changed them as a race, they may have never been immortal, and in fact probably were not, but they could blame the human/elf couples of old as the start of their misfortune, and thus blame them for tainting the perfection of the elves as a species.



I honestly doubt they were ever immortal, it just doesn't make any real sense, and there is no evidence to back up that claim, they may have had much longer lives before all the nasty stuff thats happened to them as a race in the past few centuries, but most likely, they used to live fairly long, now due to the fact they live in cramped conditions, and are stressed, and probably don't get adequate medical care, their lifespans got shortened

[Vuokseniska]

there weren't to begin with. they just thought they where immortal because of smoking elfroot all day

[Fishy]

If you talk to the Treeman in The forest .. He tell you how Elve were immortal before.Although it's just a spirit.That spirit might be old enough to remember it..





=====

And an elf with a dwarf will produce a dwarf

=====

Sight.

Anyway i imagine the face of a nice slim elve woman infanting of a ugly bearded dwarf.That make no sense.

[Lord Athena]

Poor elves, I hope BioWare lets you play elves again. Maybe letting us play as an ancient Elvhenan elf that has awakened from "the endless dream" e.g. "our ancestors would drift into centuries-long slumber"

Elven hero in Dragon Age 3 is a young Elvhenan elf that was (immortal) happy living with his mentor and friends and family a couple of thousand years ago until the evil Tevinter Imperium sacked the city, you and some of your people hide in the underground tombs and went into the endless dream state but the tomb collapsed on top of you and were accidently forced into a long coma state. You awaken only to know what you once loved is gone and now must lead what is left of your people to reclaim their ancient land and immortality in Elrond/Galadriel style. Oh yeah the humans are going to get owned, lol!

[PizzaThe Hutt]

I doubt they were immortal but the ways they used their elffy magic probably made them seem immortal. They could have just had exagerrated lifespans and of course, being a short lived human and living besides the elves, it would make the elves seem immortal especially living for a few human generations. The sleeping state part reminds me of vampires strangely, you know how most go to sleep for a while and wake up a few hundred years later... Though I wonder what happened to the elves outside of Thedas? Are they still "Immortal" or were they affected too? Thedas is only a small part of the world and we have yet to find out much outside of that.

[SerTabris]

leonia42 wrote...

mhendon wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

. They live amoung humans, serve humans, and quite pointedly often sleep with humans (consent being optional) and since any coupling between Elves and the much more numerous humans generates a human (always), by inbreeding alone, Elves will become extinct within a thousand years or so tops.


-Polaris

Where does it say this???!  That's...like...suck.... I half elves...


Bioware, thanks for making the most inept elves in history.

Fiona and Maric produced a human child (Fiona being an Elf and Maric a human). Now we could debate who that child really is, but basically, it was decided then by Gaider that all Human-Elf pairings result in Human children. I think even Shianni or another elf in the Alienage mentions this. That's why the elves in the Alienage get so excited about weddings that don't involve humans.

Was this retconned for DA2? Feynriel doesn't exactly look human.

Also, I could see some doubt even in the assertion that living away from humans makes the Dalish elves live longer. Elves living with humans also live in the conditions of the alienages, and I think that by itself would have an effect on lifespan.