619 réponses à ce sujet

[codesmurf]

Destroying the collector base makes no sense, it's not a paragon decision, it's a stupid decision. They were building a reaper at the base, so you're going to find some schematics telling you how it work, once you know how it works you can figure out the best way to kill it.

Sheppard is convinced that the reapers are still coming, so why destroy the only real information you have on your enemy? If he didn't want to work with Cerberus, why not make a pit stop at the citadel and get the council or the alliance to send a fleet to secure the base instead of Cerberus. Even if they don't believe you about the reapers, you have enough scans and other evidence to convince them that there is advanced technology that can be had.

I'm just venting because it seems that for ME2, you don't get to choose between being paragon and renegade, you get to choose between being an idiot or being a jerk.

[Onyx Jaguar]

I don't agree with it either. Such a waste of a potential resource. But the reason I destroy it so blindingly stupid I shouldn't even say it.



I like seeing that mass turn blue being TIM

[Collider]

Being around Reaper technology is like asking to be indoctrinated. The Collector base and its reaper was also constructed with thousands of people's lives.

[Busomjack]

Because The Illusive Man doesn't deserve to have that kind of power.

[The Angry One]

Said it before and I'll say it again, if there was an option to give the base to someone else, I'd keep it.
As the only option is to hand it to the evil racist megalomaniac, I blow it up.

It looks better when you blow it up anyway, the Collector General's death doesn't sync at all with the "radiation pulse" sequence.

Modifié par The Angry One, 02 mars 2010 - 04:41 .

[Zulmoka531]

If I had any other option when keeping it other than handing it to TIM, I would have potentially gone down that route.



Pretty obvious what his post-Reaper motivations are.

[Busomjack]

The Angry One wrote...

Said it before and I'll say it again, if there was an option to give the base to someone else, I'd keep it.
As the only option is to hand it to the evil racist megalomaniac, I blow it up.

It looks better when you blow it up anyway, the Collector General's death doesn't sync at all with the "radiation pulse" sequence.

Yeah I agree.  It still looked like the base was exploding when the Collector General died but on the outside it just showed a blue radiation pulse.

[rarely common]

I did it so all our bases aren't belong to Cerberus.

[Computron2000]

i) When Shepard dies and you don't blow up the base, Ceberus ships are shown moving towards the *visible* base. This means they have the IFF codes already. Also having ships on standby (and the wierd smile when TIM learns Shepard is dead) does not point to a person you would want to have advanced tech.



ii) Indoctrination we really have no clue if it is possible to happen. However, if it really occured, what would happen? Letting the enemy have a hidden strike force is not a good idea. Also logically Harbinger should not be so stupid as to have no further control over the base other than projecting a hologram of himself. But we are talking about Reapers so they really could be that stupid.



iii) Then about the hologram. How many of you would think TIM will accept a deal where humanity is saved by becoming a Reaper after Harbinger contacts him with the hologram? Possibly add a few intimidating details about the power of the Reaper fleet to make him feel that its hopeless to fight. Remember he's out to save humanity by all means necessary and if it means we all turn into goo, well thats just life.



iv) The collector ship does not stand up to the upgraded cannons of the normandy. This means their shield and armor tech is not that great. Perhaps their weapon tech is good but its unlikely to be much much more powerful than the upgraded cannons.



v) Why not forget about TIM and call the Alliance? If the Alliance does not call in the Council (or the other major race reps if Council is dead) as well, its is just asking for fear, suspicion even likely preemptive strikes by the other races (why wait until you're so much more powerful than them right?) when news leaks out.



vi) If we call in the council (or race reps) and the alliance, everything will be tied up in red tape as there will be debates on who gets access to the base, what happens to discoveries, how to prevent various races not announcing their discoveries, etc.



So in short, the gains you get get heavily outweighed by the potential dangers and pifalls of keeping it

[CmdrFenix83]

See, there's this thing called Indoctrination. Everything involving Reaper tech has been disastrous. I personally wouldn't trust this tech in anyone's hands, much less the Illusive Man's.

[Zyrious]

There SERIOUSLY needs to be a neutral or renegade response for destroying it as well. I hate that choosing to blow it up makes you say "I'm not going to let fear change who i am". I'd rather have my renegade character say something like "I'll do whatever it takes to defeat the repears, but i'm not an idiot." Sort of let that go along with the whole "Next thing i know you'll tell me you want to build your own reaper" line.



I dont like the whole either/or situation, idiot or boy-scout approach taken to the ending dialogue there (though you can make up for it with some renegade responses to tim at the post-ending dialogue. But still).

[RiverRat]

Well... given the two options you have, either destroy it, or turn it over to TIM and Cerberus.



I think we've seen enough to know that most Cerberus projects end BADLY. You either destroy it and remove the threat... or risk making the situation worse by allowing it to continue to exist and it indoctrinate a number of Cerberus scientists and thus risking the base falling under Reaper control. Again.



TIM is a smart man. But his own hubris and agenda could lead not only to his downfall but contribute to the galaxy's.



So... you take a gamble either way. I found destroying the base the least risky of the two options presented. If there were a third option... I'd be open to considering it.

[Nightwriter]

Deplorable endgame decision.



What should've happened is you ought to have spent the game working undercover in Cerberus under the Council's orders. They should've believed you about the Reapers but have been unable to officially declare their existence to a galaxy who would not believe them.



So they send you to spy on Cerberus, and in the end, you can choose to betray the Council, join Cerberus and give the base to them, or destroy Cerberus from within and give the base to the Council. That should've been the paragon/renegade decision.

[Onyx Jaguar]

All this talk about Indoctrination makes me wonder if spending too much time on the Citadel causes indoctrination.

[Computron2000]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

All this talk about Indoctrination makes me wonder if spending too much time on the Citadel causes indoctrination.

Not impossible but it would have to be on the scale of a decade or more as Anderson is still pretty alert after being on the Citadel for 2 years

[The Angry One]

A big problem with the game is that quite a few of the renegade options amount to being a Cerberus stooge.
That's just wrong. They shouldn't assume that renegade = pro-Cerberus. A renegade gets the job done at all costs, sure. But that doesn't mean goose-stepping to TIM's agenda, that's not being a renegade at all, that's being an idiot.

Modifié par The Angry One, 02 mars 2010 - 04:54 .

[Splinter Cell 108]

The base is basically a Reaper factory, anyone could have ended up liquified into genetic material only to help the Illusive Man put humanity in charge. Besides anything associated with Reaper technology that isn't easily found (mass relays and the Citadel) always ends up indoctrinating everyone. Then everyone turns into a husk or someone like Saren.



The galaxy isn't ready for that technology, even if Cerberus weren't the ones using it I'd bet some other organization would try to get its hands on it. Imagine if someone like the Shadow Broker gained control of that station. Besides Cerberus is the least indicated to run that place, look at how many of their cells have gone rogue in the past in order to avoid ethical boundaries. Not even the Illusive Man can control Cerberus and with them having that kind of technology I could imagine many within Cerberus that would want the station for themselves especially when Cerberus is funded by Corporations. We all know what Corporations are like in Mass Effect.

[Zulmoka531]

The Angry One wrote...

A big problem with the game is that quite a few of the renegade options amount to being a Cerberus stooge.
That's just wrong. They shouldn't assume that renegade = pro-Cerberus. A renegade gets the job done at all costs, sure. But that doesn't mean goose-stepping to TIM's agenda, that's not being a renegade at all, that's being an idiot.

I agree 100%

[Busomjack]

I don't think the Collector ship would cause indoctrination. Only Reapers look like they're capable of indoctrinating organics, not Reaper related technology.



That being said I still chose to destroy the Collector base even playing as a renegade because I do not trust The Illusive Man.

[Zyrious]

The Angry One wrote...

A big problem with the game is that quite a few of the renegade options amount to being a Cerberus stooge.
That's just wrong. They shouldn't assume that renegade = pro-Cerberus. A renegade gets the job done at all costs, sure. But that doesn't mean goose-stepping to TIM's agenda, that's not being a renegade at all, that's being an idiot.

It's not that hard to be an anti-cerberous Renegade shepard. You just have to make careful use of Neutral and the occasional fitting paragon response. I never have trouble maxing out my renegade bar while still making it clear that i despise Cerberous.

But the ending is definetly that way, yes. Anti-cerberous renegade's are forced to speak the boy-scoutish paragon line when destroying the base, and have no option to give it to someone else.

[The Angry One]

Busomjack wrote...

I don't think the Collector ship would cause indoctrination. Only Reapers look like they're capable of indoctrinating organics, not Reaper related technology.

That being said I still chose to destroy the Collector base even playing as a renegade because I do not trust The Illusive Man.

The derelict Reaper and the indoctrinator signals on side mission plantets in both ME1 and ME2 say otherwise.

[Rip504]

Human death is what the Collector base had. Joker has the scans and info on Reapers. So you want to keep the Tech to learn how to create/transfer organics into Reapers? Seems to be a little Renagade to me.

[Turkeysock]

I don't believe the base has/have the device used onboard the Reapers for indocternation. Why do I think this? Simple, the Collectors are basically dependent upon the Reapers as they were genetically altered to suit their needs, continual replacement of failing organs with Reaper tech, and to be honest, I doubt even the Reapers would've expected someone to get one of their IFF.

I would like to point it out that I think it is obvious that the Collector Base itself has probably been around for at least one cycle before the Derilict Reaper was rendered derilict, as it's IFF code would've allowed it to enter the Omega 4 relay.

Back on topic though. TIM CANNOT BE TRUSTED WITH THE BASE! If you ever watch one of the many youtube videos at the end where Shep did/didn't keep the base, in both cases TIM states that the base could/will be used to advanced humanity to the forefront of the galaxy... with Cerberus leading it.

If there was an option to hand the base over to Alliance or the Citadel Council, than I would gladly do that. This wouldn't just prove that Shepard is right about the Reapers as god knows what kind of information is stored in the Reaper databanks, but also show that despite all the crap that they've put him through, he's still a major team player to the galaxy. I was saddened by the fact that this wasn't allowed, as if you think about it, the only ship that has a Reaper IFF to allow it to safely pass through the Omega 4 Relay would be the SR2 Normandy... Of course it is always possible that TIM also has a copy, but I really doubt that as transfering an IFF over even secured channels is still not a wise thing to do.

I don't even think it came to TIM's mind to use a radioactive pulse to kill off the Collectors until after the fact. But of course, it is very possible that TIM had planned this all along, and did transfer a copy of the IFF code to himself, allowing the Normandy to be pretty much a guine pig.

But I will say this, keeping the base will only benefit TIM, no one else will truly benefit from the knowledge acquired from the base, including humanity!

[Nightwriter]

Do not split an atom. Do not open Pandora's Box. Do not give advanced alien mind altering technology to Cerberus.



Sh*t WILL happen.

[The Angry One]

One thing about Reaper info, at the end we see the Collector General still possessed by Harbinger manipulating some controls and hitting some buttons.

Doesn't say what he's doing but if Harbinger has any sort of brain in that bulky metal head of his then he'd be wiping the database of anything useful before going "RELEASING CONTROL YOU HAVE FAILED LOL"