619 réponses à ce sujet

[CmdrFenix83]

rasblak wrote...

So you're saying that all it takes to build / breed a Reaper is to liquify people and keep the juice is some metal container? That's all a Reaper is?
You saw with your own eyes that they were *building* a Reaper there and you are saying that "You have no proof"??
What has your Shepard been smoking dude? Who's really "not listening at all"?

There are valid reasons for keeping the base, and there are valid ones for destroying it. The decision is up to each player.

No, because you know they have that information there, right?  It couldn't possibly have just been in Harbinger's databanks out in darkspace while he used the Collectors to go through the steps.  No, you have irrefutable proof that there's something worth studying there.  Oh wait, you don't?  You're just assuming that because the remains of another dead reaper are lying around, you can get something useful out of it.  Again, assumptions.

The point about reliving the past is very relevant.  You do know what they call someone that .....

.... sees with his own eyes that they were building a Reaper there and yet claims "You have no proof" that what's there can be useful; "That's hypothesis and conjecture", right?

In my version of Mass Effect, they're called The Council.

Proof isn't speculation.  I don't understand your point.  Are you trying to say that you want to build your own Reaper, or are you taking the larval form's presence as irrefutable proof that the blueprints for making one exist in the base?  These aren't Death Star plans, there is no "Thermal Exhaust port is here, shoot through it to win". 

You're just like the other poster(although much more hostile to the point of belligerent).  You see the possible reward as worth the enormous risks of indoctrination and Cerberus history of screw ups.  I, and I would bet the majority of the Shepards(at least the paragons) don't find the possible reward worth handing over something so dangerous to Cerberus.

[Zyrious]

BurstAngel75 wrote...

There are some things in life that are inheritly wrong no matter how "justified" it may appear. The base is wrong, all that pain, death, and suffering only to make an abomination. How can we keep it? Just so we can learn to do the same? Humans are such flawed creatures and yet you act as if we can handle that kind of corupted power, but history has shown that when humans have too much power, we destroy everything around us.
Hiroshima.
So tell me, is the world a safer place now that we used a nuke to end a war? Yeah, the war is over, the Allies won, but is it a better world? safer? More Humane? Especially now that any tom, dick and harry can recreate it for the "good of their country"? The sad fact is that the Allies were already winning the war of the Pacific, but the brass wanted it to end it "faster"; we wanted to bring the boys home, so we dropped it on civilians. And the World changed.
We didn't split the atom just for the sake of doing it, we did it with the very purpose of making a weapon of mass destruction. You keeping the collector base for the very same reason, but look at all the good spliting the atom has done for our civilization. We learn how to destroy our world for the sake of winning.
As Shepard, we have to question ourselves, is it worth it?
You are saying that it is, and I respect you thinking, but for my Shepard, I will always destroy the base because even as a renagade, the cost is just too high.

To play off your hiroshima example - Because of that power, Humanity is in an era of peace unrivaled. Disagree? look at history. In the past, every major power fought over the ENTIRE planet. No nation knew peace accept those that werent a target to be conquered yet.

Most historians agree that the use of nuclear weapons in WW 2 prevented an immediate WW 3 with russia. With the demonstration of our power, instead of marching to war there was a buildup of weapons. MAD has prevented a thousand future wars between the major powers. Sure, we've had proxy wars, but that's a HUGE step down from what the world has always experienced in the past.

Not to mention that a land invasion of Japan would have lead to the near complete genocide of the japanese as they would've all fought to the death in the name of the Emperor.

Sometimes you have to commit great atrocities to prevent even greater one's. In this case, we are preventing the genocide of trillions of beings now and in the future. If we fail here, the repeaers will continue on and even MORE trillions upon trillions upon trillions will be slaughtered in mass genocide for eternity.

Dont think blowing up the base makes you sleep any easier. If the reapers win, you won't be alive to sleep regardless. I'm starting to re-evaluate my decision to blow up the base....really...

[Theoristitis]

Zyrious wrote...

Sometimes you have to commit great atrocities to prevent even greater one's. In this case, we are preventing the genocide of trillions of beings now and in the future. If we fail here, the repeaers will continue on and even MORE trillions upon trillions upon trillions will be slaughtered in mass genocide for eternity.

Dont think blowing up the base makes you sleep any easier. If the reapers win, you won't be alive to sleep regardless. I'm starting to re-evaluate my decision to blow up the base....really...

Sometimes you do. A Renegade Shepard will generally indeed commit that atrocity for the greater good. A Paragon Shepard will not commit the atrocity because it is not "good", and he will not sacrifice his morals for some possible unknown advantage in a year, or two, or twenty. Since there's no knowing what the future holds in store, Shepard has to act on what he believes is morally the right decision. Both are valid from their respective points of view and wrong to the other.

And it's awesome that you're rethinking over your decision after the fact...clear-cut decisions can get so boring 

[CmdrFenix83]

Zyrious wrote...

Dont think blowing up the base makes you sleep any easier. If the reapers win, you won't be alive to sleep regardless. I'm starting to re-evaluate my decision to blow up the base....really...

Extinction or life as a slave of Cerberus.  Personally, I choose death.

[FROST4584]

I am very disappointed with the writers. I mean why wasn't their a option to share the tech? Now that shepard has all the proof from the dead collectors on horizon, and the ability to travel to the Omega 4 relay with the IFF (obviously there will be more IFFs created now that the SR2 has one.)

On topic I kept the base. One you never know what information is on the base. Using Reaper tech is the only reason why the mission to the collector base was possible. "I won't let fear overcome who I am" or something like that is one of the worst reasons to destroy the base. Keeping the base has nothing to do with fear, its more of discovery of anything that can be useful.

Hate to break it to you, fighting wars means people are going to die. Realisticly the collector base is just too big of a scienctic discovery to pass up. So much could be learned, including how to counteract indocination if it were there, through research using probes and any weakness the reapers might have.

Outright destroying the base changes nothing. Again I blame the writers for making two crap choices for the end. Even when Bioware tells us how the end game outcome affects ME3, I still wouldn't destroy the collector base, because logically there is no out right reason to destroy it. I could see if it was later discover it was a thread, THEN destroy it.

10,000+ humans died on the base, ok. Destroying the base won't change anything. You might be indocinated, ok. Again what if there was a way to block it? Wouldn't be logical to send probes to study how it happens, and find a way to stop it?

I don't trust Cerberus, and I really wish I would could have handed the base over to the counsel space species, but given the options the WRITTERS of Mass Effect 2 , I rather keep the base no matter what. Even if Cerberus was going something evil with it. They can't get away with it compared to a reaper fleet. In other words, Cerberus can't really get away with anything even if they did try.

Modifié par FROST4584, 03 mars 2010 - 04:22 .

[CmdrFenix83]

@ FROST4584 - Again, this comes down to: You feel the potential reward is > risk. You side with the Renegade here. Paragon option says risk > potential reward, and blows it to hell. Even without Cerberus, I'm sure many of us would still blow it up under the concept of Risk > potential reward. There's many choices in the game that you can question the Paragon/Renegade options. This one really isn't.

[FROST4584]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

@ FROST4584 - Again, this comes down to: You feel the potential reward is > risk. You side with the Renegade here. Paragon option says risk > potential reward, and blows it to hell. Even without Cerberus, I'm sure many of us would still blow it up under the concept of Risk > potential reward. There's many choices in the game that you can question the Paragon/Renegade options. This one really isn't.

There isn't a general poll of how many people kept the base or not.

What risk does the collect base hold, more so with the option of killing all of the collectors on it? What makes destorying the base a good thing compared to studying it?  Destorying the base, without knowing what information it could contain is narrow minded, and realisticly not even logical.


Mass Effect 2's ending choice is questionable in terms of Raragon/ Renegade . Destorying the base out right doesn't make you a hero. I could see if the base was attacking and you had to make a choice to destory it to save lives under attack. The humans on it are dead, the only thing left is information, why not take a chance to learn and study reaper tech?



Its like the writers already knew what was going to happen if you choose whatever and just "hinted" at was going to happen. Again why "delete the plans of the death star" without study? The base could answer alot of questions.

Modifié par FROST4584, 03 mars 2010 - 04:38 .

[Turkeysock]

I agree with you Frost, if I could've given the base over to the Council or to the Alliance, I would have. But for me, TIM isn't the kind of person I want to have Reaper tech.



Besides, Saren studied indoctrination for god knows how long, and couldn't find anything. If anyone has any additional knowledge, it would be Rana (if you let her live). I really doubt that they have the tech to create a defense against indoctrination, because it seems to affect the sub consciousness, just a guess. But it would explain why no one notices the indoctrination until too late.



But back on topic, I'm with Fenix, I don't believe the risk is worth the potiential reward. Because you'd have to sacrifice a LOT of people, and I'm going to bet that no one is going to say:



"Oh, by the way, you're slowly going to lose your senses and become a mindless body only wishing to follow the commands of a sentient race of organic machines bent on destroying all organic life in the galaxy! So we'll be studying you! Good luck in there!"



If it's Cerberus, I wouldn't put it past them picking up people with no abilities except being a guinea pig for them. Maybe you think sacrificing folks is worth it to learn something, but for me, I don't think it's worth the reward. But as Fenix say, it's personal choice.

[CmdrFenix83]

FROST4584 wrote...

There isn't a general poll of how many people kept the base or not.

What risk does the collect base hold, more so with the option of killing all of the collectors on it? What makes destorying the base a good thing compared to studying it?  Destorying the base, without knowing what information it could contain is narrow minded, and realisticly not even logical.


Mass Effect 2's ending choice is questionable in terms of Raragon/ Renegade . Destorying the base out right doesn't make you a hero. I could see if the base was attacking and you had to make a choice to destory it to save lives under attack. The humans on it are dead, the only thing left is information, why not take a chance to learn and study reaper tech?



Its like the writers already knew what was going to happen if you choose whatever and just "hinted" at was going to happen. Again why "delete the plans of the death star" without study? The base could answer alot of questions.

No, it really isn't.  The Risks have been stated many, many times, in detail, above.  I'm not going to retype them again.  If you didn't read them, that's your problem.  There's no questionable ground here on the terms of keeping the base.  You either blow it up, or give it to a man that very plainly states he'll use it to conquer the galaxy for humanity.  A man known to commit atrocities, even against his own people. 

You can't give it to the Council or the Alliance.  The only way to get there is on board the Normandy, due to the stealth systems.  Even if you replicate the Reaper IFF to let other ships go through, Citadel and Alliance ships are *not* welcome in the Terminus Systems, and you risk provoking a war that the galaxy cannot afford right now.  I suppose you could ferry people back and forth, but who's to say you don't end up bringing undercover Cerberus operatives over?  Hell, Cerberus has infiltrated the Alliance all over the place  Not to mention all the previously mentioned risks.

Your options are, literally:  Destroy dangerous enemy tech that has zero promise of further intel, or hand over the most dangerous facility in the known galaxy to a known terrorist.  Oh yeah, all sort of grey in this decision.   

[Nightwriter]

Reaper tech has an awful track record. It seems to corrupt everything around it, time and time again.



But, putting that aside, Cerberus's scientists have an even worse track record with studying dangerous technology.

[rasblak]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...
No, because you know they have that information there, right?  It couldn't possibly have just been in Harbinger's databanks out in darkspace while he used the Collectors to go through the steps.  No, you have irrefutable proof that there's something worth studying there.  Oh wait, you don't?  You're just assuming that because the remains of another dead reaper are lying around, you can get something useful out of it.  Again, assumptions.

Let me turn this around: at the time that we're told to make the decision to blow the place up or keep it, do we have
any indication that there's a scene of Joker handing Shepard some schematics coming?
How did you know that you were not blowing up the schematics too? Oh wait, you didn't, did you?

I have EDI telling me that it's not just "another dead reaper lying around"; it's a place equipped with what's
needed to *build* a Reaper. It's just to sound important that the US Military wouldn't allow the public full access to their weapons factories, right? Not because there's classified information there that'd give their adversaries an edge, right?

It couldn't possibly have just been in Harbinger's databanks out in
darkspace while he used the Collectors to go through the steps.

"Possibly"?? Did you just use the word "possibly" while in the same breath pointing out that it's supposedly others who are speculating and making assumptions?? (Can somebody say 'double standards' ?)

At the time of making the decision to blow up the place or not, was there any proof that there was nothing worth recovering there? There couldn't have been.
Was there any proof that the schematics had been recovered? Even so, what's that then? Proof that there's nothing worth recovering there maybe?

[Theoristitis]

What risk does it hold? The risk of the unknown, I guess.



We know absolutely nothing about the Collector Base except that genetically mutated Protheans "lived" there, for lack of a better word, and attempted to build a Reaper based on human genetic material. The only thing we know is in that base is the broken metallic skeleton of the Reaper embryo we just obliterated.



We know nothing about how indoctrination works after two years, during which Cerberus was probably studying it (given how much attention they gave to everything else Reaper-related). The base may not contain any plans at all.

Then again, it may have "the plans of the Death Star", or, hell, it could BE the "Death Star", with firing capabilities = 50 Reapers.

Then again, it may have a hidden Reaper protocol in its superstructure that has it self-destruct if anyone tries to utilize its technology. Or it could be a dormant Mass Relay connecting to dark space.



Yes, those examples are pretty much entirely illogical. The point I'm trying to make is, we know absolutely nothing, and we don't have time to find out anything more. Your Shepard has to make his choice based on what he believes is the right decision.

Neither is inherently correct.



It could answer a lot of questions, or it could kill us all, or it could prove to be our only salvation, or it could be a useless shell, or our very decision could be inconsequential in the long run.

[Theoristitis]

My god triple post fail.

Modifié par Theoristitis, 03 mars 2010 - 05:05 .

[Theoristitis]

triple post fail 

Modifié par Theoristitis, 03 mars 2010 - 05:05 .

[CmdrFenix83]

rasblak wrote...

Let me turn this around: at the time that we're told to make the decision to blow the place up or keep it, do we have
any indication that there's a scene of Joker handing Shepard some schematics coming?
How did you know that you were not blowing up the schematics too? Oh wait, you didn't, did you?

I have EDI telling me that it's not just "another dead reaper lying around"; it's a place equipped with what's
needed to *build* a Reaper. It's just to sound important that the US Military wouldn't allow the public full access to their weapons factories, right? Not because there's classified information there that'd give their adversaries an edge, right?

::sighs:: I'm not metagaming here.  I didn't know Joker would have that data to hand over at the end, and I still blew the place.  This is even a character(mostly paragon) that agrees with the Genophage and killed the Rachni Queen.

The better question, one that you and everyone else siding with you on here seem to keep ignoring, is that you simply do not know that there is any useful information in that base.  You have no clue.  You're guessing, based on the fact that there was one in construction there.  However, all of the Collectors were under Harbinger's control.  How do you know he wasn't building that thing from his own memory banks?  Answer:  You don't.  You're guessing, speculating, making your choice on what if's and not facts.

"Possibly"?? Did you just use the word "possibly" while in the same breath pointing out that it's supposedly others who are speculating and making assumptions?? (Can somebody say 'double standards' ?)

At the time of making the decision to blow up the place or not, was there any proof that there was nothing worth recovering there? There couldn't have been.
Was there any proof that the schematics had been recovered? Even so, what's that then? Proof that there's nothing worth recovering there maybe?

You're really going to great lengths to ignore my point.  You don't know what information the base actually contains.  You're guessing, assuming.  I don't need proof that nothing useful is in a human smootie maker made from Reaper tech to know that giving said smoothie maker to Cerberus is a bad idea.  All I need is the lack of evidence supporting said useful information, and a brief look at the history of experiments with Reaper Tech and well... anything we've seen Cerberus do.

Fact 1:  Collector Base liquifies people.
Fact 2:  Reaper tech study has resulted in bad things 100% of the time.
Fact 3:  Cerberus experiments that we know about have 100% of the time ended in disaster, and many were atrocities against humanity itself.

That's all I need to base my decision on.  There's no speculation necessary here.  Saying "Well, there might be something useful to defeating the Reapers" is pure speculation and cannot be proven at the point you need to make the decision.  Weighing "What If's" with the facts will tell you to destroy the base(if Paragon and deem the risk isn't worth whatever reward might be in there) or keep it and hand it to TIM(if Renegade and assuming that whatever intel in there must be vital enough to the anti-Reaper effort is worth all the risks of indoctrination, Cerberus' atrocious history, or potentially Cerberus' enslavement of the galaxy post-Reaper threat). 

[Theoristitis]

Shandepared wrote...

Even if you fear his plans for the galaxy after the Reaper invasion has been stopped you must acknowledge that your priority must be the Reapers, not the Illusive Man. Sacrificing a potential edge against the Reapers because TIM is a "bad guy" is stupid.

I repeat my statement earlier that ethics do not matter; only survival does. Your ethics need to be put on hold.

An excellent point: one thing at a time, Reapers before TIM, the known threat before the guy who might become a problem.

That said, there are other reasons not to take the base.

[thedoncarnage]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Your options are, literally:  Destroy dangerous enemy tech that has zero promise of further intel, or hand over the most dangerous facility in the known galaxy to a known terrorist.  Oh yeah, all sort of grey in this decision.   

I agree with most of what you've written Fenix, except the emboldened line. The fact of the matter is none of us players actually know whether there will be useful intel at the base. Maybe there is, maybe there isn't. Maybe the Collector General wiped all the memory blanks before dying. Or maybe the General wasn't able to move fast enough. But stating concretely that it has "zero promise" for intelligence doesn't make any sense. The real debate comes from what the cost of that intelligence will be.

But we don't really know what the cost will be either.

You and Frost both know the risks. The difference is that Frost believes the risks are acceptable. Personally, I'm inclined to agree. I play a Paragon but I let the base go to Cerberus not because I want to forward their agenda, but because I know I may be able to use whatever intel is gleaned later. I may even be able to steal the intel from Cerberus and give it to the Alliance/Council in ME3.

Unfortunately what this really boils down to is bad writing in the end. As many players have noted, there should have been an option to secretely work against Cerberus from the inside at the Council's behest. Even if that means the Council can't send official ships to investigate the base, what's stopping the Normandy or a covert smuggling operation using unmarked freighters? There's more than one way to skin a cat.

EDIT: Actually it appears we're on the same page Fenix. I didnt notice your post right above mine. We both recognize there may be useful info, or there may not. The difference is that I think the possibility for info is enough reason to save the base. You don't. Im sure ME3 will tell us which one is the right choice, but if Bioware's record on Renegade/Paragon outcomes is any record I'm sure Renegades will get screwed.

Modifié par thedoncarnage, 03 mars 2010 - 05:25 .

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

 Because i imagined the illusive man making a bunch of alien slurpies for himself for sheer amusement.

[Nightwriter]

Believing the Collector base contains worthwhile knowledge IS an assumption, yes, but quite a reasonably safe one. We can't be 100% sure, but it's an alien base with very advanced technology, all of which pertains directly to Reaper science and to building Reapers. There will likely be much to learn from it.



The danger of handing such knowledge over to Cerberus, however, is just too great.

[Theoristitis]

thedoncarnage wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Your options are, literally:  Destroy dangerous enemy tech that has zero promise of further intel, or hand over the most dangerous facility in the known galaxy to a known terrorist.  Oh yeah, all sort of grey in this decision.   

I agree with most of what you've written Fenix, except the emboldened line. The fact of the matter is none of us players actually know whether there will be useful intel at the base. Maybe there is, maybe there isn't. Maybe the Collector General wiped all the memory blanks before dying. Or maybe the General wasn't able to move fast enough. But stating concretely that it has "zero promise" for intelligence doesn't make any sense. The real debate comes from what the cost of that intelligence will be.

But we don't really know what the cost will be either.

You and Frost both know the risks. The difference is that Frost believes the risks are acceptable. Personally, I'm inclined to agree. I play a Paragon but I let the base go to Cerberus not because I want to forward their agenda, but because I know I may be able to use whatever intel is gleaned later. I may even be able to steal the intel from Cerberus and give it to the Alliance/Council in ME3.

Unfortunately what this really boils down to is bad writing in the end. As many players have noted, there should have been an option to secretely work against Cerberus from the inside at the Council's behest. Even if that means the Council can't send official ships to investigate the base, what's stopping the Normandy or a covert smuggling operation using unmarked freighters? There's more than one way to skin a cat.

This.

As for writing, however...if the base ends up playing a noticeable role in ME3, then Cerberus' ownership of it (or Shepard's ownership of it) will be expanded on. I'm guessing there will be a chance for Shepard to control what comes out of the base. It's quite arguably his base, after all. So I think that option, for Shepard to assume direct control (I couldn't resist), will open up, if it is significant to the storyline.
If I remember correctly, TIM only sends his own ships to the base in the Shepard's death ending, in which case whatever Shepard said before his own death really doesn't have much effect (ME1-->ME2 is pretty significant proof of this), and the option wouldn't make sense to exist.

[CmdrFenix83]

Shandepared wrote...

Is there something wrong with that? The strategy you mentioned would
secure victory for humanity with minimal losses and maximum gains. The
other races would be crippled, ensuring that humanity would be the
dominant force in the galaxy for eons to come.

That would be called the Renegade option.  Congratulations on spelling *exactly* why this option awards heavy renegade points!

He also gets results and he is the only reason we still have a fighting chance against the Reapers. Without him Shepard would have stayed dead or worse been incorporated into the new Reaper. Even if you fear his plans for the galaxy after the Reaper invasion has been stopped you must acknowledge that your priority must be the Reapers, not the Illusive Man. Sacrificing a potential edge against the Reapers because TIM is a "bad guy" is stupid.

I repeat my statement earlier that ethics do not matter; only survival does. Your ethics need to be put on hold.

Assuming survival means more to you than freedom.  Many people disagree, heck, my country was even founded on the ideal that freedom was paramount to all else.  "Give me liberty, or give me death!"  (Again, this is the ideal, not the current corrupt political system we have).

A Paragon Shepard would even disagree, as does your entire ship's crew.  No one's just blowing up the base because TIM will do bad things with it after the fact.  That's certainly part of it, but that's not the defining reason.  There's more risk to keep a base you literally know nothing about other than it juiced people.  You don't know what the base had in it.  You don't know the base has anything of tactical value against the Reapers.  You simply do not know. 

The only thing the base could presumably do, is create Reapers.  Do you plan on commiting genocide in order to prevent total genocide?  Sacrifice millions of lives in hopes that it'll be necessary?  If you say yes, then you're obviously siding with the Renegade here. 

As Paragon Shepard says to TIM at the very end after he tells says he brought Shepard back to stop the Reapers, "And I'm going to do exactly what you brought me back for, and I'll do it without sacrificing the soul of our species."  We'll take the Reapers down without the human smoothie maker.

[CmdrFenix83]

thedoncarnage wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Your options are, literally:  Destroy dangerous enemy tech that has zero promise of further intel, or hand over the most dangerous facility in the known galaxy to a known terrorist.  Oh yeah, all sort of grey in this decision.   

EDIT: Actually it appears we're on the same page Fenix. I didnt notice your post right above mine. We both recognize there may be useful info, or there may not. The difference is that I think the possibility for info is enough reason to save the base. You don't. Im sure ME3 will tell us which one is the right choice, but if Bioware's record on Renegade/Paragon outcomes is any record I'm sure Renegades will get screwed.

Indeed we are.  Note I said "zero promise of further intel." 

Edit:  And I'm sure Renegades will get screwed as well.  If the results in ME2 of ME1 choices are anything to go by at least.  Hehe.

Modifié par CmdrFenix83, 03 mars 2010 - 05:32 .

[FROST4584]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

FROST4584 wrote...

There isn't a general poll of how many people kept the base or not.

What risk does the collect base hold, more so with the option of killing all of the collectors on it? What makes destorying the base a good thing compared to studying it?  Destorying the base, without knowing what information it could contain is narrow minded, and realisticly not even logical.


Mass Effect 2's ending choice is questionable in terms of Raragon/ Renegade . Destorying the base out right doesn't make you a hero. I could see if the base was attacking and you had to make a choice to destory it to save lives under attack. The humans on it are dead, the only thing left is information, why not take a chance to learn and study reaper tech?



Its like the writers already knew what was going to happen if you choose whatever and just "hinted" at was going to happen. Again why "delete the plans of the death star" without study? The base could answer alot of questions.

No, it really isn't.  The Risks have been stated many, many times, in detail, above.  I'm not going to retype them again.  If you didn't read them, that's your problem.  There's no questionable ground here on the terms of keeping the base.  You either blow it up, or give it to a man that very plainly states he'll use it to conquer the galaxy for humanity.  A man known to commit atrocities, even against his own people. 

You can't give it to the Council or the Alliance.  The only way to get there is on board the Normandy, due to the stealth systems.  Even if you replicate the Reaper IFF to let other ships go through, Citadel and Alliance ships are *not* welcome in the Terminus Systems, and you risk provoking a war that the galaxy cannot afford right now.  I suppose you could ferry people back and forth, but who's to say you don't end up bringing undercover Cerberus operatives over?  Hell, Cerberus has infiltrated the Alliance all over the place  Not to mention all the previously mentioned risks.

Your options are, literally:  Destroy dangerous enemy tech that has zero promise of further intel, or hand over the most dangerous facility in the known galaxy to a known terrorist.  Oh yeah, all sort of grey in this decision.   

You missed the point completely.  Again read what I typed and logicaly think of ways the Alliance or anyone could send a covert  teams or even negogate options to get the Omega 4 relay. Hell even Jacob was a member of a black op team.  In cased you missed it, Cerberus opertives come from all over ,so it really doesn't matter. They even stole plans to recreate the Normandy , between a joint operations between two races. Also the fact that every race in ME is based on reaper tech, and even SR2 main gun is proof that learning and study about your enemies can prove to be a advantage.

Study to understand or go in fear and destory something that  could yeild information or something that be studied . The greater of the two evils is obviously the reapers they are obviously far more advance. Destorying the collector base  outright is based on fear. Keeping it.... again read above. Cerberus has proven unstable, so if they try anything, it wouldn't work. Cerburus isn't powerful, but resourceful and can be beaten, still ISN"T the "right "choice. Again it all goes back to the writters.

Also how do you know that the collector base has zero promise of further intel? Generally speaking  you do know bases DO have miltary information right? That is the point of going over there and looking. Paragon choice is based on fear, the other based on far lesser two evils and can be dealt with later.

Both my respones are based on the writter's of ME2 wanted two narrow choices, they don't really don't reflect what is really going on or what is going to happen . The writters have something planned out, so it won't reflect "real world options ie keep the base to study". 

They just slapped that keeping the base is a bad thing  without realisticly looking at the risk verus rewards.  In a real world wether it be human vs human or human vs alien(if that were ever to happen). If you captured a base even though people died , outright destorying the base would enver be a option if you captured the base, more so if your enemy is more advance. That information could save thousands of lives.

Mass Effect 2 ending implies too much of what is going to happen in Mass Effect 3, that is why people assume Shepard will find another way to destory the reapers, of course he will there is going to be a option to destory the collectors because it a game and there are going to be other options.

The final  choice doesn't reflect good or bad, but nothing more than to set  Cerberus/ TIM as Mass Effect 3 as the second front as the bad guys or a group that shepard is going have to deal with.

The game was written by the writters to be more like " You know Cerberus will be the bad guys for Mass Effect 3 along with the reapers, will you destory the collector base now thus ending your connection with cerberus now, or wait for Mass Effect 3 were TIM faction of Cerberus betrays Shepard and the rest of the galaxy, then have to kill them during or after Mass Effect 3). That is Mass Effect 2's ending in a nut shell.

Note: I am not bashing the writters of ME2. I like ME2, but the end choice was a wash and dissapointment of how it really would /should  handled.

Modifié par FROST4584, 03 mars 2010 - 05:39 .