619 réponses à ce sujet

[BurstAngel75]

If you remember when you became a Spectre in ME, the speech that the Council gave indicates that a Spectre is also an ideal, a reflection of all of that stands within the intergalactic community. Our job is to enforce peace among the races and to protect that peace from within and without.

A Spectre is an idealist, a very determined idealist. That's why Saren failed as a Spectre, he stopped caring.

Paragon would release the rachni, because genocide wrong. You can't condem a race because of the first encounter with them resulted in war. After all, our first encounter with an alien species resulted in war, and yet we were not wipe out even though they came pretty close to it. Sometimes compassion and mercy is needed.

[Turkeysock]

rasblak wrote...

Turkeysock wrote...

Yes the U.S. plays world cop. Yeah, we arm dictators (I don't agree with any of it). But honestly, playing cop and trying to extend human dominance across the galaxy are sorta... two different things. The U.S. armed dictators to ensure we had access to cheap resources when issues came up, TIM wants to bring humanity to dominate the galaxy. How are either of those even related?

Hey, I don't know, maybe in that "access to cheap resources when issues came up" means continued perceived Super-Power status?

What does "dominance across the galaxy" mean to you? Openly advertised intent of doing evil, or recognized superiority and commanding respect?

Really... I don't think you understand. There is a DIFFERENCE between what TIM wants, and what the U.S. does. The U.S. armed dictators for two reasons:
1. Paranoia about the spread of Communism
2. Cheap resources

TIM is plane and simple egomaniac and megalomaniac.

Comparing TIM to the U.S. is like comparing night to day.

[Habelo]

TIM is more like hitler then anyone else if you want to compare with real life. Think about it. Hitler commanded the greatest army in modern times, a real power source(cerberus is a great power source yes). Wanted dominance of the arian race and himself to be the leader of the leaders. Now hitler became quite maddened in later years but still was a great speaker and bull****er- just like TIM. He try to win you with words and bribe you, if you destroy the collector ship you prove him that his ways wont work.

Modifié par Habelo, 03 mars 2010 - 08:58 .

[BlueInkAlchemist]

Paragon would release the rachni, because genocide wrong. You can't condem a race because of the first encounter with them resulted in war. After all, our first encounter with an alien species resulted in war, and yet we were not wipe out even though they came pretty close to it. Sometimes compassion and mercy is needed.

The way I saw it, Renegade Shepard could release the rachni as well.  Having a race that once posed such a threat to galactic peace that the krogan needed to nearly wipe them out as an ally is a tempting thought.  A little mercy now can yield a major boon later, when calculated properly.  Then again, that's how I play Renegade - not just being a jerk and punching/shooting people, but manipulating situations so I always come out on top.

[rasblak]

Turkeysock wrote...

Really... I don't think you understand. There is a DIFFERENCE between what TIM wants, and what the U.S. does. The U.S. armed dictators for two reasons:
1. Paranoia about the spread of Communism
2. Cheap resources

TIM is plane and simple egomaniac and megalomaniac.

Comparing TIM to the U.S. is like comparing night to day.

Ok, you're probably right in the sense that it was a bad idea to try to compare a whole country to a video-game character.
By the time I'd tone TIM down to some  realistically comparable behaviour, might as well just admit that the analogy just won't fly.

[Turkeysock]

rasblak wrote...
Ok, you're probably right in the sense that it was a bad idea to try to compare a whole country to a video-game character.
By the time I'd tone TIM down to some  realistically comparable behaviour, might as well just admit that the analogy just won't fly.

Well, at least we're agreeing on something! That is far more important than taking sides.

I will say, I do see where a lot of you guys are coming from. The base may very well hold some more information that we could dig up. But, I just can't bloody trust TIM.

It is the same thing, if I found some kind of alien technology, I wouldn't hand it over to the U.S. government, because we will NEVER see it again, plus I might end up getting killed or put under 24/7 watch. I'd rather get some of the most brilliant minds together to study it and have the information released to the world! Idealistic, yes I know, but information like that shouldn't be kept to just one country, or one group.

It is the same with the Reaper base, I'd much rather have the entire galaxy share in studying and working together on the Collector Base, than just leaving it to Cerberus. Everyone learning and bettering themselves is much wiser decision than just letting one person learn everything.

That is how I view this situation, TIM is looking for Humans to dominate over the galaxy and eventually the Universe, with Cerberus/him leading it. I agree that the Reapers are the greatest threat atm, but I am also looking at what will happen afterwards. And frankly, I don't agree with the whole idea that one race should dominate the galaxy/universe. I see it as holding not just humanity, but every sentient race we have met/will come across back in the long run. After all, it is under the domination of a few over the many that has caused so many issues in our history. Not to mention that the few who rule, will always choose issues to fit their best interests and ignore the masses. TIM is a man who will do that, and that is a major reason why I do not want him to have this base.

[Chaplin_M]

just for 1 thing: Blue Sun... and cuz the first time i did it i skipped TIM and Miri's Peer review

[Yona Ti]

Yes, destroying the collector base does seem like a bad option but with info it could have held, and a human nationalist like TIM, yeah like he isnt going to use it for human domination.



I always thought the datapad Shepard holds in the last cutscene was all the info from the base. Was I wrong?

[Vaenier]

Would TIM be stupid enough to use the base for galactic conquest with Shepard out there watching him? Shep took out the collectors, does a few Cerberus scientists actually stand a chance?

[Turkeysock]

Yona Ti wrote...

Yes, destroying the collector base does seem like a bad option but with info it could have held, and a human nationalist like TIM, yeah like he isnt going to use it for human domination.

I always thought the datapad Shepard holds in the last cutscene was all the info from the base. Was I wrong?

It's probably not all the info the base had, but it does appear to be schematics to Harbinger. We won't know for sure until ME3 or a DLC that confirms this.

[Cypher0020]

I'm still wondering where the data Joker gives Shep came from



O_O



EDI made a backup OCD of the Base?

[Turkeysock]

Vaenier wrote...

Would TIM be stupid enough to use the base for galactic conquest with Shepard out there watching him? Shep took out the collectors, does a few Cerberus scientists actually stand a chance?

Nope, but TIM isn't stupid you know. If he's going to remove Shepard, he'd take him down when he least suspected. And that, I would have to say that would most likely be either right before or after the Reaper fleet is defeated. Best shot to remove someone, blame it on FF or targeting malfunction, or heck, Shep could just die in the battle. But TIM wouldn't make a move for galactic domination until after the Reaper threat is delt with.

[Gavinthelocust]

I did it to ****** off TIM and also get paragon points, no need for five paragraphs to explain that.

[Urazz]

The Angry One wrote...

A big problem with the game is that quite a few of the renegade options amount to being a Cerberus stooge.
That's just wrong. They shouldn't assume that renegade = pro-Cerberus. A renegade gets the job done at all costs, sure. But that doesn't mean goose-stepping to TIM's agenda, that's not being a renegade at all, that's being an idiot.

Yeah, but Cerberus pretty much gets the job done at all costs or at least tries to.  Hence why renegade options sometimes fall in line with being pro-Cerberus.

[T-35]

I won't be surprised if the base ends up self - destructing in the end..It seems to me that the Reapers would not want to leave such a valuable item lying around for someone to collect.

[Edrick1976]

It turns people into goo so it can build a ship that wants to destroy EVERYTHING!!!! How can keeping it in ANY way be a good thing.

[Snowraptor]

codesmurf wrote...

Destroying the collector base makes no sense, it's not a paragon decision, it's a stupid decision. They were building a reaper at the base, so you're going to find some schematics telling you how it work, once you know how it works you can figure out the best way to kill it.

Sheppard is convinced that the reapers are still coming, so why destroy the only real information you have on your enemy? If he didn't want to work with Cerberus, why not make a pit stop at the citadel and get the council or the alliance to send a fleet to secure the base instead of Cerberus. Even if they don't believe you about the reapers, you have enough scans and other evidence to convince them that there is advanced technology that can be had.

I'm just venting because it seems that for ME2, you don't get to choose between being paragon and renegade, you get to choose between being an idiot or being a jerk.


you havent defeated the enemy if you just use there technolodgey

[Snowraptor]

Lol your letting Terrorists take control of it. and your calling us stupid. hahaha. hipocrite

[trigger2kill1]

It is my belief that the Paragon is to save the most of the people. To do that some must unfortunately die. My Parashep let the Council die cause I figured to do otherwise was risking the bad guys to win. 3 to 5k die in Destiny Ascension and I save 40 million+ was simple numbers. Sovereign lost, period.
I also believe that the collector base is as useful as peter griffins cow kite.

.

Modifié par trigger2kill1, 04 mars 2010 - 05:02 .

[Kileyan]

Followed thread the first 10 pages or so, then can't keep up.

The gist of the base destroyers is that is was used to turn people into gel, so we must destroy it!! Just like we destroy deathcamps and such.  We must destroy it in honor of those taken!

That doesn't fly here. We are fighting Reapers of which even though we have been playing a game fighting them for 4 years, we know almost nil about. Keeping the base doesn't mean we are wanting to use their tech or create baby Reapers. That base wasn't just a reaper baby factory and nothing else. It is full of info about our enemy.

To us the Reapers are a total unknown, we believe in them but we really know little more than the council who do not want to believe in them. That base didn't just hold the biological food factory for the reaper tadpoles, it was tons of knowledge and tech about the reapers, hints to their motives, history, attack strat, defenses, things no one has been able to learn through 1000's of cycles.

It is fine to complain that we can't beat them by using their seeded tech. It is another thing to bury your head in the sand, and not believe that we can't get an edge by simply knowing more about them.

Modifié par Kileyan, 04 mars 2010 - 05:09 .

[Turkeysock]

Kileyan wrote...
Followed thread the first 10 pages or so, then can't keep up.

The gist of the base destroyers is that is was used to turn people into gel, so we must destroy it!! Just like we destroy deathcamps and such.  We must destroy it in honor of those taken!

That doesn't fly here. We are fighting Reapers of which even though we have been playing a game fighting them for 4 years, we know almost nil about. Keeping the base doesn't mean we are wanting to use their tech or create baby Reapers. That base wasn't just a reaper baby factory and nothing else. It is full of info about our enemy.

Odd... because the majority of people who have posted saying they blew up the base said they did it so TIM didn't get his hands on it. Sure many posts have said that it needed to be destroyed because it gooified thousands of humans and force fed it to a Reaper, but that is only one of many reasons why the base was destroyed.

As for the rest of this paragraph, we don't know what else is in the base. The only thing we do know is that it is basically a Reaper factory. That is the only thing we know at the time of setting up the bomb.

Also, we need to look at the fact that TIM is willing to win by any means neccessary, if he thought he could control the incomplete Reaper, and that it came in handy for his plans, he will do what ever it took to finish it. Because that is how TIM is.

Kileyan wrote...
To us the Reapers are a total unknown, we believe in them but we really know little more than the council who do not want to believe in them. That base didn't just hold the biological food factory for the reaper tadpoles, it was tons of knowledge and tech about the reapers, hints to their motives, history, attack strat, defenses, things no one has been able to learn through 1000's of cycles.

Yes and no, I agree that the Reapers are largely unknown to us and that the Council ignores their existence. But the rest of this is pure speculation. But, based off of logical assumption, I'd say that the Reapers did not place information pertaining to their motives, history, attack strat, defenses, and other things no one else knew. Why do I say this? The Collectors were pawns. They were only given information that pertained to their duties. So, your point of tech is the strongest possibility of being true. The data that was stored in the Collectors databanks were most likely wiped before Harbinger released control on the Collector General. And, even if the radiation pulse stopped that from happening, than the databanks are most likely corrupted from the pulse. The possibility of getting any information out of that is close to 0%, and even if you could, what little you get wouldn't be useful at all. And mind you, that is IF the Radiation Pulse affected the systems, if it didn't, the wipe would have deleted any and all information on there.

Also, since the Collectors were pawns, they would have next to no information on the Reapers aside from construction, which is what is most likely on the data pad.

Kileyan wrote...
It is fine to complain that we can't beat them by using their seeded tech. It is another thing to bury your head in the sand, and not believe that we can't get an edge by simply knowing more about them.

None of us have buried our heads in the sand. If you really read the first 10 pages, than you'd realize most of us looked at what we 100% know so far about Cerberus and tech related directly to the Reapers. We also looked beyond the final showdown with the Reapers. Any Reaper tech TIM found would be kept for Cerberus use only, and once the final battle ends, TIM will make his move to grab power from the Council/human lead Council, the Alliance, and anyone who stood in his way. That is how TIM is. It isn't a guess, it isn't speculation. Look him up in the Mass Effect Wiki, every shred of information from the books to the games that is known about TIM is on there.

[rasblak]

@TurkeySock...

You don't bury your head in the sand by choosing to blow up the base, not at all. You have your own valid reasons.

But you do bury your head in the sand when you deny the quasi-certainty that in a place where they were *building* a reaper you are bound to find technology that will definitely give you a crucial edge in defeating them.

So "a reaper factory" is not good enough.. You want BioWare to send you to a place where The Reapers have a full-fledged report outlining in detail every single one of their own weaknesses and viable methods for kicking their own ****es?

Or you needed the Collectors to have put up signs all over the place: "This component here is an explosive battery that regulates the high-speed radial plasma flow within The Reaper. Shoot us here for maximal damage... please."

Turkeysock wrote...
The data that was stored in the Collectors databanks were most likely wiped before Harbinger released control on the Collector General. And, even if the radiation pulse stopped that from happening, than the databanks are most likely corrupted from the pulse. The possibility of getting any information out of that is close to 0%, and even if you could, what little you get wouldn't be useful at all. And mind you, that is IF the Radiation Pulse affected the systems, if it didn't, the wipe would have deleted any and all information on there.

Also, since the Collectors were pawns, they would have next to no information on the Reapers aside from construction, which is what is most likely on the data pad.

Who's speculating now? Count the occurrences of "most likely", and "if".

I mean, you can be sure from knowing what TIM has done before what he will do with this place,
but you cannot be sure from knowing that this is a place equipped to build a reaper that you will find technology here that gives you more insight about what makes a reaper tick?

[frokenscheim]

There's only one thing I really need to know about the Reapers. If you throw enough firepower at them, they die. I learned this from Sovereign. So with my sound strategy of throwing firepower at them until they die, I felt the risks involved in Reaper tech-its inherent risks or the risks resulting from it being in TIM's hands-were not worth it.

[rasblak]

frokenscheim wrote...

There's only one thing I really need to know about the Reapers. If you throw enough firepower at them, they die. I learned this from Sovereign. So with my sound strategy of throwing firepower at them until they die, I felt the risks involved in Reaper tech-its inherent risks or the risks resulting from it being in TIM's hands-were not worth it.

You needed Sovereign to teach you that if you throw enough firepower at anything, it dies? Really?

How much is "enough"? How long do your weapons take to dispense that amount of firepower?
More importantly, how much damage do the Reapers do to you in that amount of time? Are you still alive?