619 réponses à ce sujet

[Bigdoser]

All we know about the base is that it is used for making a reaper anything beyond that is speculation.

[Bhaal]

GodWood,

Reapers can be defeated, reapers always won yes. However they are not powerful than whole universe combined, they always had the advantage of suprise and once the rulling body of the universe destroyed, the reapers simply hunt down divided organics all too easily.(and maybe not that easily since it's possible that the Reapers suffered, perhaps serious, losses during the harvests [IFF mission])

Also letting the old council die was seemed like the best choice againts the reaper threat yet just like what would happen in real life, that choice divided the universe even a bit more and still council doesn't gives a s*** about reapers.

Would Cerberus share the tech that they might develop with other races or use it before the other races suffered heavily? I don't think so. When it comes speculation a Cerberus with such tech may even be the cause of the defeat.

Modifié par Adakutay, 20 mars 2010 - 11:02 .

[Bigdoser]

Paragon is a traitor by trying to achive galatic peace with the other races? riiiiiiiiight. >_> also arms race is bad cause to me it looks like a civil war may break out. Well i am just speculating.

Modifié par Bigdoser, 20 mars 2010 - 11:03 .

[Bigdoser]

Shandepared wrote...

Bigdoser wrote...

Paragon is a traitor by trying to achive galatic peace with the other races? riiiiiiiiight. >_> also arms race is bad cause to me it looks like a civil war may break out. Well i am just speculating.

For betraying human interests he is a traitor, yes. Peace is established with the renegade options too, but at the same time humanity gains influence.

I doubt war with the turians is likely. They'd get pulverized just as much as we would; no one would win. It's more like a cold war. The competition will encourage technological development and ship production.

That's still speculation. Plus thats only your opinion, to achive a end at the expense of others is not a good idea to me and thats exactly what TIM is trying to do. I understand your point but I dont agree with it.

[Mcjon01]

Shandepared wrote...

spryforadeadguy wrote...

First off, paragon Shepard is not out for the dominance of mankind.

Paragon Shepard is a traitor as far as I'm concerned.

Both Paragon Shepard and Renegade Shepard are working to advance human interests.  The biggest difference is simply one of perspective -- Renegade Shepard believes that human interests and alien interests cannot coincide, while Paragon Shepard belives that human interests and alien interests always coincide.  I'd say that neither is entirely true, since they both take their respective ideologies to a ridiclulous extreme, but there's a reason there are separate sliders for Renegade and Paragon instead of a single scale.

In any case, I wouldn't call either version of Shepard a traitor, since they're attempting the same goal in different ways.  Unless one of them fails utterly and gets mankind wiped out, of course. Then I'd call whichever one dropped the ball a traitor a thousand times over as I died a horrible sci-fi death.

[Bhaal]

Shandepared wrote...
Ultimately I don't care if Cerberus shares the technology, just so long as they use it to defend the human races. Everyone else is expendable and in fact having their numbers and influence culled by the Reapers would be beneficial.

I didn't mean Cerberus shares it for happines of the universe, i simply pointing that the reaper tech can only make difference if used widely and to do so it must be shared with other races since this will interfere with Cerberus' ultimate plan...

Shandepared wrote...
It set off an arms race between the Systems Alliance and Turian
Hierarchy. That's a good thing.

Paragon choice gets the same conclusion too. It's just shows rather would you sacrifice 10.000 asari life or 3.000 human life while trying to save them.

As far as I can say you're taking your personel taste of ME a bit too serious.

Modifié par Adakutay, 20 mars 2010 - 11:19 .

[Bigdoser]

Hey aren't we going abit off topic?

[Reaper27]

I could write a list of reasons why it would be morally wrong to keep the base, but does that really matter? If the Reapers are able to smash the galaxy it will make the number of people who died in the collector base look almost insignificant and I would go against everything I believe in to prevent that happening.

Modifié par Reaper27, 20 mars 2010 - 11:27 .

[Mcjon01]

Shandepared wrote...

Well to be frank I think the most reasonable ending to ME1 is where humanity LEADS a multiracial Council. Punting the established races off the Council is NOT something I would reccomend... though I trust Udina knows what he's doing. The actual reason I go with the full on renegade ending is because I can't help but have that many renegade points and I find the all human Council makes for a more interesting plot-twist

I actually find it interesting that, for as much as the game trumps up Udina's political savvy, listening to the background news reports and such makes it fairly clear that he treats everyone the way he treats Shepard, basically everyone thinks he's an ass, and the Turians' nickname for him is "the diplomatic incident just waiting to happen".  I feel like I took a video game analog of (insert real-life politician known for saying stupid, stupid things here) and put them in charge of everything.  Needless to say, I chose Anderson the second time around.  At least he's able to open up trade routes between the Batarians and human colonies.

[spryforadeadguy]

Shandepared wrote...



The problem is that there is no practical reasoning for destroying the base. You could have made a better case for never examining the derelict Reaper. Do you think examining the dead Reaper was a mistake?

Ultimately, yes. It's one thing to go in and retrieve an IFF, but a whole other story to perform long term research aboard a Reaper. After how that quaint little fiasco turned out, I'm even more emphatic in not mucking about with hyper-advanced mind control technology.

Shandepared wrote...



In the end, as I've said before, you will always live in fear of indoctrination if you aren't willing to study it. When the Reapers come you won't be able to avoid it any longer. The only hope you'll have of countering it will be if you took the opportunities to study it in the past, no matter the losses.

There's probably a way to safely study indoctrination, but we apparently haven't found it yet. I will grant you that finding a way to prevent or reverse indoctrination would be immensely helpful, but we already know the best way to avoid indoctrination: don't expose yourself to it. Also remember that the Reapers have had millions of years to perfect this process; isn't it just a tad arrogant to think that in a few short years (using a generous time frame) we'd be able to completely, or even somewhat significantly, disrupt indoctrination? Our efforts and resources would better be served developing more immediate defensive measures, such as upgraded weaponry, communication systems that doesn't rely on Reaper tech, faster FTL drives that make a mass relay lockout moot, etc. I'm not saying we'd be able to match or beat Reaper tech, but at the very least decrease our dependence on it. Considering indoctrination research would almost surely cost us numerous scientific minds before anything useful comes from it, I can't help but emphasise that we will need every available resource to achieve any of the above.

Shandepared wrote...



Paragon Shepard is a traitor as far as I'm concerned.

Why is that, exactly?

Shandepared wrote...



Too bad yours isn't. That must be very hard on you.

This is where we come down to just a base difference of viewpoints. I see throwing people away for the sake of a Reaper tech goose chase as a waste. You see that slim chance of a pay off as worth it, no matter the cost. Similar to my above comment about requiring every resource; I would say the individual scientists and their collective potential outweigh the slim possibility of gaining something from Reaper research, while you'd probably argue the reverse. Neither of us are inherently wrong (morality is ultimately subjective, as much as disagree with your overall philosophy), and we both have practical reasons for the decisions we made concerning the base. Note that I never said you didn't have practical reasoning (though I admit, the comment was a tad bit snide).

[Mcjon01]

Shandepared wrote...

Mcjon01 wrote...

 At least he's able to open up trade routes between the Batarians and human colonies.

That's nice, but I'm in a favor of the stealth frigate assaults.

Yeah, I saw that in the other topic, and that's also interesting, since it's never popped up in my game.  When I had Udina heading up a new alien council, it just talked about how much of an abysmal failure he was.  I guess the man doesn't know how to get things done unless he's surrounded by humans.

There's also a certain amount of uncertainty here, since the way the game is designed, different playthroughs have different background fluff.  It's entirely possible that the improved relations between Batarians and Humans on the frontier means that there is no secret weapons project in the first place.  In which case, the worst scenario actually occurs with Udina and an alien council, and the best results come from pairing Anderson with aliens, or Udina with humans.  Which actually makes sense, given the characters.

[Weiser_Cain]

What if it's the reaper tech itself that makes a reaper, so that the more you know and use the tech the more like the reapers you become?

[Bhaal]

I'm trying say we don't know the choice between keeping the C. Base or destroying it is the same between total annihilation for idealism or survival, we can not even be sure that it will do more help than harm.

I would say if i sacrifice ideals to survive then humans are notting but most evolved apex predators of their planet(in reality i believe in that anyway) and do not deserve to live more than dinosaurs. A person with slightly nihilist perception like this would choose to destroy that base. If existing races have stronger will to survive than the reapers they will thrive over them nevertheless and that base wouldn't make any real difference. In conclusion as an individual i'll be making a moral/philosophical choice either way.Your's yours but don't rationalize it as the ultimate right choice.

Modifié par Adakutay, 20 mars 2010 - 12:13 .

[ObserverStatus]

I can't wait to splode Udina's fancy stealth frigates. My Thanix is grinding its teeth.

[spryforadeadguy]

Shandepared wrote...



I think you're letting your fear of Reaper technology cloud your judgement on the matter, as well as your fear of Cerberus.

And I think you're too willing to throw lives away prematurely. A difference of viewpoints.



I'd also like to note that I'd no more like the Alliance or Council to send their own goons to their deaths in vain attempt to study the base than Cerberus. Furthermore, despite my inherent distaste for Cerberus and my reluctance to admit this, they actually seem to have a better grasp of Reaper tech than any of the other major powers. It's not so much that I don't want Cerberus to have the base, more that I don't want anyone to have it. I personally think it's just that dangerous.

Shandepared wrote...



I will do exactly that because that is exactly what it is.

I'm sorry, but this just comes across as pure arrogance. If only on the basis of there being numerous philosophies in the world/universe, your statement is dubious. There are some who would say extinction is preferable to the willing sacrifice of lives. Who are you to tell them they are flat out wrong?

[Mcjon01]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

What if it's the reaper tech itself that makes a reaper, so that the more you know and use the tech the more like the reapers you become?

This poorly written and thought out post made me realize, on a completely unrelated note, that I'm not as Paragon as I'd like to think I am.  Because, to be honest, I would absolutely turn every last human into Reaper-paste, as long as I could set myself up as the dominant personality when we all come out the other side as an immortal space-robot Cthulhu.  The biggest problem I have with the base is letting the Reapers or Cerberus be the ones running it.

Oh, TIM, as much as I hate you, it would be so awesome to be you.