619 réponses à ce sujet

[Suron]

I'm one to think we should have had the option to contact the alliance/council about it or something akin to the cerberus data you re-capture that gives you the option of cerberus, the alliance, or keeping it yourself.



but otherwise..it's a tough call..my first playthrough I decided (as a paragon no less) that it was best to keep the base with how big the Reaper threat is...my second play (also Paragon) decided to destroy it..TIM can't be trusted with it...what will he do with that tech when/if the Reapers are defeated?? especially if he somehow unlocks indoctrination tech.....I can't see him not using it to bring other races under his thrall much less any human's that don't fall in line behind him/cerberus

[RiverRat]

Nightwriter wrote...

Do not split an atom. Do not open Pandora's Box. Do not give advanced alien mind altering technology to Cerberus.

Sh*t WILL happen.

That sums it up pretty well.

[smudboy]

What's worse? The Reapers or potentially TIM?



Potentially having information on your enemy, potentially developing new tech to defeat them, finally having proof, determining what happened to all those people and how, or not? TIM ain't a saint, but without him, 1) you'd be dead, 2) you wouldn't have gotten this far, 3) with TIM and the base, you might have some sliver of hope.



Of course the entire plot was one massive hole after another, so why not suddenly throw inconsistency and score some P/R inconsistency in it too? (Hell we just fought Mega Maid, can drink Mr. Coffee out of our Dark Helmet and play with our kissie dolls.) Besides, blowing something up is clearly not P, and keeping it for the above reasons is clearly not R.

[Rip504]

Why assume the Collector base had some kind of valuable Reaper Tech/Info...?Maybe it's based of Reaper/Collector tech and doesn't hold all the deep dark secrets to the Reapers. Honestly what sense would it make for the Reapers to place their secrets or weakness aboard the Collector base?

A base that was used solely for the purpose of genetic reconstruction Protheans-Collectors Humans-Human Reaper.
What good could come from info like this? Humans with Reaper/Collector tech in their bodies working for Tim in ME3? Why is this Renagde? I don't know.
Tim wants to finish the Human Reaper and use it as his own personal bodyguard...

Modifié par Rip504, 02 mars 2010 - 05:11 .

[Zyrious]

The Angry One wrote...

One thing about Reaper info, at the end we see the Collector General still possessed by Harbinger manipulating some controls and hitting some buttons.
Doesn't say what he's doing but if Harbinger has any sort of brain in that bulky metal head of his then he'd be wiping the database of anything useful before going "RELEASING CONTROL YOU HAVE FAILED LOL"

Assuming he wasnt using the control panel to take a couple last shots at killing shepard before disconnecting. That, or that was just him using the intercom "I hate you shepard. GTFO" then ****ing out the collector general. Most likely you're right though (Unless the base is blowing up, then it's just the obligatory threats).

[RiverRat]

Or it's the one of the biggest red herrings ever...

[smudboy]

Suron wrote...

I'm one to think we should have had the option to contact the alliance/council about it or something akin to the cerberus data you re-capture that gives you the option of cerberus, the alliance, or keeping it yourself.

but otherwise..it's a tough call..my first playthrough I decided (as a paragon no less) that it was best to keep the base with how big the Reaper threat is...my second play (also Paragon) decided to destroy it..TIM can't be trusted with it...what will he do with that tech when/if the Reapers are defeated?? especially if he somehow unlocks indoctrination tech.....I can't see him not using it to bring other races under his thrall much less any human's that don't fall in line behind him/cerberus

If that was an option, that also should've been present right at the beginning with your first meeting with TIM.  If they suddenly sprang that **** on the end, it would be a complete farse.  You can't have it both ways.

[smudboy]

Rip504 wrote...

Why assume the Collector base had some kind of valuable Reaper Tech/Info...?Maybe it's based of Reaper/Collector tech and doesn't hold all the deep dark secrets to the Reapers. Honestly what sense would it make for the Reapers to place their secrets or weakness aboard the Collector base?

A base that was used solely for the purpose of genetic reconstruction Protheans-Collectors Humans-Human Reaper.
What good could come from info like this? Humans with Reaper/Collector tech in their bodies working for Tim in ME3? Why is this Renagde? I don't know.
Tim wants to finish the Human Reaper and use it as his own personal bodyguard...

It flippin MAKES REAPERS.  You think it might have,  geez, I don't know, some info on how to MAKE REAPERS?

DID YOU KNOW IT MAKES REAPERS?

[Nightwriter]

The Angry One wrote...

One thing about Reaper info, at the end we see the Collector General still possessed by Harbinger manipulating some controls and hitting some buttons.
Doesn't say what he's doing but if Harbinger has any sort of brain in that bulky metal head of his then he'd be wiping the database of anything useful before going "RELEASING CONTROL YOU HAVE FAILED LOL"

He tried. Didn't work. Hit a firewall. A hologram of Shepard popped up on his terminal and said, "I delete bugs like you on the way to real errors".

And Harbinger was like, "What the f*ck?! Erase, damn it, erase!!"

[Turkeysock]

The Angry One wrote...

One thing about Reaper info, at the end we see the Collector General still possessed by Harbinger manipulating some controls and hitting some buttons.
Doesn't say what he's doing but if Harbinger has any sort of brain in that bulky metal head of his then he'd be wiping the database of anything useful before going "RELEASING CONTROL YOU HAVE FAILED LOL"

That is true, he could've been wiping the database... but you'd have to wonder, a database that stretched for 50k (or possibly more) years would take a significant amount of time to be properly erased. With the Radiation pulse, it could mess with the systems and stop the erase, of course it could also erase the databanks as well, but we don't know either way until ME3.

[The Angry One]

Nightwriter wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

One thing about Reaper info, at the end we see the Collector General still possessed by Harbinger manipulating some controls and hitting some buttons.
Doesn't say what he's doing but if Harbinger has any sort of brain in that bulky metal head of his then he'd be wiping the database of anything useful before going "RELEASING CONTROL YOU HAVE FAILED LOL"

He tried. Didn't work. Hit a firewall. A hologram of Shepard popped up on his terminal and said, "I delete bugs like you on the way to real errors".

And Harbinger was like, "What the f*ck?! Erase, damn it, erase!!"

So that's what the Shepard VI is for.

[Kileyan]

codesmurf wrote...

Destroying the collector base makes no sense, it's not a paragon decision, it's a stupid decision. They were building a reaper at the base, so you're going to find some schematics telling you how it work, once you know how it works you can figure out the best way to kill it.

Sheppard is convinced that the reapers are still coming, so why destroy the only real information you have on your enemy? If he didn't want to work with Cerberus, why not make a pit stop at the citadel and get the council or the alliance to send a fleet to secure the base instead of Cerberus. Even if they don't believe you about the reapers, you have enough scans and other evidence to convince them that there is advanced technology that can be had.

I'm just venting because it seems that for ME2, you don't get to choose between being paragon and renegade, you get to choose between being an idiot or being a jerk.

Pretty much, blame Bioware. YOu could either destroy 1000's of possible insights into the Reapers and new tech or knowledge to fight them or you culd give them to Mr. Shady who was basically saying he couldn't wait to make his own Reaper. Choices 3 was common sense, take control and put your council choice in charge. Win win, more trustable people control the research, and they get more proof about the Reapers existance.

Apparently Shepard can only think about two choices at once, once the Reapers learn that, we are doomed. All they have to do is toss him a yellow, red and blue ball, he will freeze in place as his mind explodes with more than two options.

[The Angry One]

Turkeysock wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

One thing about Reaper info, at the end we see the Collector General still possessed by Harbinger manipulating some controls and hitting some buttons.
Doesn't say what he's doing but if Harbinger has any sort of brain in that bulky metal head of his then he'd be wiping the database of anything useful before going "RELEASING CONTROL YOU HAVE FAILED LOL"

That is true, he could've been wiping the database... but you'd have to wonder, a database that stretched for 50k (or possibly more) years would take a significant amount of time to be properly erased. With the Radiation pulse, it could mess with the systems and stop the erase, of course it could also erase the databanks as well, but we don't know either way until ME3.

True but look at it this way, BioWare may have given themselves an out if they don't feel like making radically different outcomes in ME3.
Plus I'd love to see TIM's face when he realizes he has the base but it's all just a useless hunk of metal because all the info on how to use it is gone.

[Turkeysock]

smudboy wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

Why assume the Collector base had some kind of valuable Reaper Tech/Info...?Maybe it's based of Reaper/Collector tech and doesn't hold all the deep dark secrets to the Reapers. Honestly what sense would it make for the Reapers to place their secrets or weakness aboard the Collector base?

A base that was used solely for the purpose of genetic reconstruction Protheans-Collectors Humans-Human Reaper.
What good could come from info like this? Humans with Reaper/Collector tech in their bodies working for Tim in ME3? Why is this Renagde? I don't know.
Tim wants to finish the Human Reaper and use it as his own personal bodyguard...

It flippin MAKES REAPERS.  You think it might have,  geez, I don't know, some info on how to MAKE REAPERS?

DID YOU KNOW IT MAKES REAPERS?

What use is there to having a place that makes Reapers? Knowing how to make one can lead to figuring out how to defeat it. And at the end, we see a pad with information supposedly about Harbinger, which basically tells us all we need to know on their strengths and weaknesses. Making them would only get someone with enough access to a number of people to try to create one to use on their own. That is where the real danger comes from.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Computron2000 wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

All this talk about Indoctrination makes me wonder if spending too much time on the Citadel causes indoctrination.

Not impossible but it would have to be on the scale of a decade or more as Anderson is still pretty alert after being on the Citadel for 2 years

I guess thats true.  But since it is not an indoctrination structure or a Reaper it might not.  But because it is built by the Reapers it might have a subtle influence.

"Ah yes... Reapers"

[Zyrious]

The Angry One wrote...

Turkeysock wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

One thing about Reaper info, at the end we see the Collector General still possessed by Harbinger manipulating some controls and hitting some buttons.
Doesn't say what he's doing but if Harbinger has any sort of brain in that bulky metal head of his then he'd be wiping the database of anything useful before going "RELEASING CONTROL YOU HAVE FAILED LOL"

That is true, he could've been wiping the database... but you'd have to wonder, a database that stretched for 50k (or possibly more) years would take a significant amount of time to be properly erased. With the Radiation pulse, it could mess with the systems and stop the erase, of course it could also erase the databanks as well, but we don't know either way until ME3.

True but look at it this way, BioWare may have given themselves an out if they don't feel like making radically different outcomes in ME3.
Plus I'd love to see TIM's face when he realizes he has the base but it's all just a useless hunk of metal because all the info on how to use it is gone.

This is TIM we're talking about. Even without a shred of info he'll start strapping random "volunteers" into the pods and start hitting random buttons until something happens. Rig up his own computers and operating systems until stuff starts happening. It's cerberus, after all.

[Computron2000]

The Angry One wrote...
True but look at it this way, BioWare may have given themselves an out if they don't feel like making radically different outcomes in ME3.
Plus I'd love to see TIM's face when he realizes he has the base but it's all just a useless hunk of metal because all the info on how to use it is gone.

Well TIM could still reverse engineer the hardware so he could make remote controlled spinning platforms, heat valves and pods that change people to goo. Also he gets those nifty glowing balls you see on the flying platforms

[Turkeysock]

The Angry One wrote...

Turkeysock wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

One thing about Reaper info, at the end we see the Collector General still possessed by Harbinger manipulating some controls and hitting some buttons.
Doesn't say what he's doing but if Harbinger has any sort of brain in that bulky metal head of his then he'd be wiping the database of anything useful before going "RELEASING CONTROL YOU HAVE FAILED LOL"

That is true, he could've been wiping the database... but you'd have to wonder, a database that stretched for 50k (or possibly more) years would take a significant amount of time to be properly erased. With the Radiation pulse, it could mess with the systems and stop the erase, of course it could also erase the databanks as well, but we don't know either way until ME3.

True but look at it this way, BioWare may have given themselves an out if they don't feel like making radically different outcomes in ME3.
Plus I'd love to see TIM's face when he realizes he has the base but it's all just a useless hunk of metal because all the info on how to use it is gone.

We'll never see TIM's surprised face... cause I'm pretty sure his face only has two modes, angry and boss! He'll just be really pissed off.

But we can hope right?

And lets hope that BW will be able to come up with some radically different endings. At least in this one even if you succeed you can still "fail" so to speak.

[siltsonata]

The Angry One wrote...

A big problem with the game is that quite a few of the renegade options amount to being a Cerberus stooge.
That's just wrong. They shouldn't assume that renegade = pro-Cerberus. A renegade gets the job done at all costs, sure. But that doesn't mean goose-stepping to TIM's agenda, that's not being a renegade at all, that's being an idiot.

I don't play too much renegade but I totally agree with you.  

I think they're trying to emphasize that Renegade Shep leans pro-human...but just because Cerberus takes the same stance does not mean that Shepard is automatically going to be their lackey. 

[Sharn01]

You act like there was a decision to keep the base and not give it to TIM.



The final decision is just one of the many Mass Effect decision's where the best course of action is not one of the choices you can make, so you pick the lesser of two evil's instead.

[Zyrious]

Turkeysock wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Turkeysock wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

One thing about Reaper info, at the end we see the Collector General still possessed by Harbinger manipulating some controls and hitting some buttons.
Doesn't say what he's doing but if Harbinger has any sort of brain in that bulky metal head of his then he'd be wiping the database of anything useful before going "RELEASING CONTROL YOU HAVE FAILED LOL"

That is true, he could've been wiping the database... but you'd have to wonder, a database that stretched for 50k (or possibly more) years would take a significant amount of time to be properly erased. With the Radiation pulse, it could mess with the systems and stop the erase, of course it could also erase the databanks as well, but we don't know either way until ME3.

True but look at it this way, BioWare may have given themselves an out if they don't feel like making radically different outcomes in ME3.
Plus I'd love to see TIM's face when he realizes he has the base but it's all just a useless hunk of metal because all the info on how to use it is gone.

We'll never see TIM's surprised face... cause I'm pretty sure his face only has two modes, angry and boss! He'll just be really pissed off.

But we can hope right?

And lets hope that BW will be able to come up with some radically different endings. At least in this one even if you succeed you can still "fail" so to speak.

Actually, when you decide to blow up the base with miranda with you, he looks really shocked and panicked when he turns around to Miranda and then orders her to stop shepard. Infact, i think he goes through a wide range of emotions from "Overconfident" to "Shocked" to "Oh ****" to "you bi..."

[smudboy]

Turkeysock wrote...

What use is there to having a place that makes Reapers? Knowing how to make one can lead to figuring out how to defeat it.

One of many good points on why to keep the base.

And at the end, we see a pad with information supposedly about Harbinger, which basically tells us all we need to know on their strengths and weaknesses. Making them would only get someone with enough access to a number of people to try to create one to use on their own. That is where the real danger comes from.

We see a pad of a picture of a Reaper, supposedly. Not necessarily Harbinger.

It tells us it's a picture of a Reaper.  How the FLYING F&CK does it tell us all we need to know about their strengths and weaknesses?  What joint are you on tonight?

Who said anyone's going to make a Reaper?  What are you, hallucinating too?

"Making them would only get someone with enough access to a number of people to try to" --> wow, this is totally incoherent.   Do you think before you hit the submit button?

Right.  Because TIM clearly wants to continue melting down millions of human lives to make a giant human Reaper.  Of course.  You have revealed his master plan, you master of deduction.  I'm so glad we you have the intelligence to use a mouse and grace us with your...other intelligence.  I'm going to go run around the house in a magic flying carpet now.  Oh wait, that wouldn't make sense.

Modifié par smudboy, 02 mars 2010 - 05:27 .

[Nightwriter]

Zyrious wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Turkeysock wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

One thing about Reaper info, at the end we see the Collector General still possessed by Harbinger manipulating some controls and hitting some buttons.
Doesn't say what he's doing but if Harbinger has any sort of brain in that bulky metal head of his then he'd be wiping the database of anything useful before going "RELEASING CONTROL YOU HAVE FAILED LOL"

That is true, he could've been wiping the database... but you'd have to wonder, a database that stretched for 50k (or possibly more) years would take a significant amount of time to be properly erased. With the Radiation pulse, it could mess with the systems and stop the erase, of course it could also erase the databanks as well, but we don't know either way until ME3.

True but look at it this way, BioWare may have given themselves an out if they don't feel like making radically different outcomes in ME3.
Plus I'd love to see TIM's face when he realizes he has the base but it's all just a useless hunk of metal because all the info on how to use it is gone.

This is TIM we're talking about. Even without a shred of info he'll start strapping random "volunteers" into the pods and start hitting random buttons until something happens. Rig up his own computers and operating systems until stuff starts happening. It's cerberus, after all.

Truth.

Just be glad TIM wasn't there in the volcano when Frodo was about to throw in the One Ring.

"Think of what you're doing, Frodo! That ring is a piece of valuable technology, we can use it against the enemy! Against Sauron and beyond! We have to keep it! Think of all we don't know, all the answers it could give us! It would be a betrayal not to keep it!"

[Stinkface27]

I pretty much agree with you, OP - my first inclination was to keep the base for the reasons you stated. It seems like a really stupid move tactically to destroy the only solid info you have about reaper design, and a massive waste of all the people's lives who have already been killed. I was completely happy with my decision to keep the base until I met up with TIM after the suicide mission...



I immediately realized that no matter how right this choice would have been, in TIM's hands, it is deadly information. The real Paragon option would have been to keep the base and then turn TIM and the Collector base in to the Alliance IMO.

[aznsoisauce]

The great thing about threads like this is that it opens up plenty of conversation and debate, but none of it is going to change anyone's mind. ...I have nothing to add, sorry.

I just wanted to agree with the OP, especially with how the ME2 ending decision does essentially feel as though your Shepard is choosing to be either an "idiot or a jerk." The ME1 ending felt so much more...Grey.