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Why would anyone destroy the collector base?

Débuté par codesmurf , mars 02 2010 04:37

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#501
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Posté 20 mars 2010 - 12:36

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spryforadeadguy wrote...

Why not just carve out our own little isolationist corner of the galaxy for ourselves like the geth?  Why does human autonomy have to come at the expense of the other races?


If you want my opinion I wouldn't have ever activated the Charon Relay. However we are now part of this community and so isolationism won't really work. We'll be forced to interact. So we can do that from a position of inferriority... or superioirity. If we went isolationist we'd wind up like the batarians... or like North Korea.

#502
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Posté 20 mars 2010 - 12:39

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Dethateer wrote...

Numbers. One species isn't worth the sacrifice of every other species.


If that "one" species is humanity then it absolutely is worth preserving, even at the expense of all others. If I were a turian or an asari I'd say the same thing, only replace "human" with "asari".

spryforadeadguy wrote...

With that kind of attitude, why bother about the whole of humanity at all? Wouldn't your own personal gains be a much greater priority?


Edit: I misread your post.

It's simple: I am not a psychopath who feels a need to place myself above others. My attidude is the opposite: it's one of self sacrifice for the species. I do not desire to rule over others but nor do I desire to be ruled over. I compromise.

What applies to the individual does not necessarily apply to the greater whole.

Modifié par Shandepared, 20 mars 2010 - 12:41 .

#503
Dethateer
Posté 20 mars 2010 - 12:40

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Shandepared wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

Numbers. One species isn't worth the sacrifice of every other species.


If that "one" species is humanity then it absolutely is worth preserving, even at the expense of all others. If I were a turian or an asari I'd say the same thing, only replace "human" with "asari".


Why?

#504
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Posté 20 mars 2010 - 12:42

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Dethateer wrote...

Why?


...because I'm human.

#505
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Posté 20 mars 2010 - 12:43

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Asheer_Khan wrote...

Udina jump on ocassion to size control over new council because of  temporal chaos after battle whit Sovieregin BUT soon or later new leaders (and this time blood thirsty hawks) will take command over Turian fleet and having no respect for new council they will take action to put at end Human dominance on the Citadel.


Except that they haven't and won't.

#506
Dethateer
Posté 20 mars 2010 - 12:43

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And that automatically makes your species worth more than another sapient species?

#507
spryforadeadguy
Posté 20 mars 2010 - 12:47

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Shandepared wrote...

If you want my opinion I wouldn't have ever activated the Charon Relay. However we are now part of this community and so isolationism won't really work. We'll be forced to interact. So we can do that from a position of inferriority... or superioirity. If we went isolationist we'd wind up like the batarians... or like North Korea.

Or like Switzerland.

Shandepared wrote...

Simple: if humans don't prioritize human needs then nobody else will.

Edit in kind:  You edited while I was typing, it seems.

Modifié par spryforadeadguy, 20 mars 2010 - 12:48 .

#508
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Posté 20 mars 2010 - 12:49

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spryforadeadguy wrote...

Or like Switzerland.


That's true, we could have made so much money off of dead Jews. Also, Switzerland is a small country with a small population. It's really not applicable to the United States or the entirety of the human species. They aren't isolationist either.

spryforadeadguy wrote...

I'm not asking who would push humanity ahead. If the needs of the few so greatly overpower the needs of the many, than what is the ultimate logical conclusion? My personal needs are greater than those of anyone else. To hell with asari, batarians, and humans alike. As long as I get what I want, all is right with the universe.


Again; you are approaching this from a position of selfishness and not self-sacrifice or service to another. You're greatly misinterpreting my mindset.

#509
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Posté 20 mars 2010 - 12:50

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Dethateer wrote...

And that automatically makes your species worth more than another sapient species?


I said nothing about worth. Objectively humanity is no more worthy than a rock to exist. However as a human I will advance the needs of humans over the needs of another species because I am a human. It's rooted in my DNA as well as a desire to protect and advance human culture, and the human mind.

#510
Dethateer
Posté 20 mars 2010 - 12:53

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I'm not disputing that, I'd give my life for mankind without a second thought. But isn't the sacrifice of an individual (a species in this case, in the galactic society) worth it for the well-being of everyone else ?

Modifié par Dethateer, 20 mars 2010 - 12:53 .

#511
spryforadeadguy
Posté 20 mars 2010 - 12:55

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Shandepared wrote...



It's simple: I am not a psychopath who feels a need to place myself above others. My attidude is the opposite: it's one of self sacrifice for the species. I do not desire to rule over others but nor do I desire to be ruled over. I compromise.



What applies to the individual does not necessarily apply to the greater whole.


I'm not seeing much compromise in your philosophy. It seems more like a very basic, "Conquer or be conquered, no exceptions," system.



Sure, I don't want humans to be subjugated or mistreated, but I see absolutely no reason why humans cannot coexist with the alien races in at least a civil manner. Preemptively subjugating other races is not civil, in my eyes. The last line of yours I quoted here sums it all up: what applies to the individual [race] does not apply to the greater whole.

#512
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Posté 20 mars 2010 - 12:55

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Dethateer wrote...

I'm not disputing that, I'd give my life for mankind without a second thought.


I rather doubt that.

Dethateer wrote...

But isn't the sacrifice of an individual (a species in this case, in the galactic society) worth it for the well-being of everyone else ?


No. What good is the rest of the galaxy for us if we aren't going to be around to enjoy it? If we can't survive then to hell with anyone else, I don't intend to make a martyr of the human species.

#513
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Posté 20 mars 2010 - 12:57

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spryforadeadguy wrote...

Sure, I don't want humans to be subjugated or mistreated, but I see absolutely no reason why humans cannot coexist with the alien races in at least a civil manner. Preemptively subjugating other races is not civil, in my eyes.


I never said we couldn't co-exist or be civil or that we had to subjugate anybody. The United States reigns dominant over the Earth and has for the last twenty or thirty years, but would you say that the rest of the Earth subjugated to it? Being dominant does not mean enslaving anybody. It merely means being a position where we are free to protect and advance our interests as needed to keep our people prosperous and content.

#514
Dethateer
Posté 20 mars 2010 - 12:57

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Shandepared wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

I'm not disputing that, I'd give my life for mankind without a second thought.


I rather doubt that.


I don't doubt you'd do the same.

Shandepared wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

But isn't the sacrifice of an individual (a species in this case, in the galactic society) worth it for the well-being of everyone else ?


No. What good is the rest of the galaxy for us if we aren't going to be around to enjoy it? If we can't survive then to hell with anyone else, I don't intend to make a martyr of the human species.


The galaxy doens't exist for us, so that we alone can exist in it.

#515
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Posté 20 mars 2010 - 01:01

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Dethateer wrote...

I don't doubt you'd do the same.


I don't doubt that you'd doubt that I'd doubt that you'd doubt that I'd do the same.

Dethateer wrote...

The galaxy doens't exist for us, so that we alone can exist in it.


So why does the galaxy exist?

#516
nikki191
Posté 20 mars 2010 - 01:01

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considering what happened to a cerberus team who tried to research a reaper i think its best to err on the side of caution

#517
Dethateer
Posté 20 mars 2010 - 01:02

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Shandepared wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

I don't doubt you'd do the same.


I don't doubt that you'd doubt that I'd doubt that you'd doubt that I'd do the same.

Dethateer wrote...

The galaxy doens't exist for us, so that we alone can exist in it.


So why does the galaxy exist?


Why does life exist?

#518
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Posté 20 mars 2010 - 01:17

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Dethateer wrote...

Why does life exist?


Why do we drive in parkways and park in driveways?

#519
GodWood
Posté 20 mars 2010 - 01:17

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Adakutay wrote...

GodWood,

Reapers can be defeated, reapers always won yes. However they are not powerful than whole universe combined, they always had the advantage of suprise and once the rulling body of the universe destroyed, the reapers simply hunt down divided organics all too easily.(and maybe not that easily since it's possible that the Reapers suffered, perhaps serious, losses during the harvests [IFF mission]).

We don't know that, we only know how the protheans were wiped out.
Their were countless other races some may of had even more knowledge of the Reaper attack before us and still lost.

It'd be arrogant to think that we are the first cycle to be aware of the coming war.

#520
Dethateer
Posté 20 mars 2010 - 01:19

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Shandepared wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

Why does life exist?


Why do we drive in parkways and park in driveways?


If you know that, then why would the galaxy need a reason to exist?

#521
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Posté 20 mars 2010 - 01:20

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Dethateer wrote...

If you know that, then why would the galaxy need a reason to exist?


I never said the galaxy had any reason to exist. As far as I'm concerned nothing does. If you want answers I suggest you talk to a priest.

Modifié par Shandepared, 20 mars 2010 - 01:20 .

#522
Guest_Shandepared_*
Posté 20 mars 2010 - 01:22

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GodWood wrote...

It'd be arrogant to think that we are the first cycle to be aware of the coming war.


We would be arrogant to think that but in some regards this is probably true. Harbringer's statement "We will find another way" implies that the Reapers are going to need to try something new, which suggests we may have achieved something that to date nobody else has.

#523
Dethateer
Posté 20 mars 2010 - 01:23

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Shandepared wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

If you know that, then why would the galaxy need a reason to exist?


I never said the galaxy had any reason to exist. As far as I'm concerned nothing does. If you want answers I suggest you talk to a priest.


I'm an atheist. But that's beside the point. We have no claim over this galaxy, even if it is utterly devoid of life. There is no reason whatsoever for us to survive at the expense of others.

#524
Weiser_Cain
Posté 20 mars 2010 - 01:25

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I exist to rock!

#525
Guest_Shandepared_*
Posté 20 mars 2010 - 01:27

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Dethateer wrote...

There is no reason whatsoever for us to survive at the expense of others.


Nor is there any reason for us not to.
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