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[The Angry One]

We see a pad of a picture of a Reaper, supposedly. Not necessarily Harbinger.

It has Harbinger's set of yellow eyes, only Harbinger has been shown with it.

It tells us it's a picture of a Reaper.  How the FLYING F&CK does it tell us all we need to know about their strengths and weaknesses?  What joint are you on tonight?

It's a schematic. Isn't that obvious. Schematics show you how to build something and what they're built with.
What, did you want a big sign on the schematic saying *SHOOT HERE TO MAKE ME EXPLODE*?

Who said anyone's going to make a Reaper?  What are you, hallucinating too?

What do you think a megalomaniac is going to do with a Reaper-o-matic? Make flowers?

[Onyx Jaguar]

I wouldn't rule out Cerberus buying slaves from Batarians and making Quarian/Turian/other specie reapers in order to ensure Humanities dominance.

[Nightwriter]

smudboy wrote...

Turkeysock wrote...

What use is there to having a place that makes Reapers? Knowing how to make one can lead to figuring out how to defeat it.

One of many good points on why to keep the base.

And at the end, we see a pad with information supposedly about Harbinger, which basically tells us all we need to know on their strengths and weaknesses. Making them would only get someone with enough access to a number of people to try to create one to use on their own. That is where the real danger comes from.

We see a pad of a picture of a Reaper, supposedly. Not necessarily Harbinger.

It tells us it's a picture of a Reaper.  How the FLYING F&CK does it tell us all we need to know about their strengths and weaknesses?  What joint are you on tonight?

Who said anyone's going to make a Reaper?  What are you, hallucinating too?

"Making them would only get someone with enough access to a number of people to try to" --> wow, this is totally incoherent.   Do you think before you hit the submit button?

Right.  Because TIM clearly wants to continue melting down millions of human lives to make a giant human Reaper.  Of course.  You have revealed his master plan, you master of deduction.  I'm so glad we you have the intelligence to use a mouse and grace us with your...other intelligence.  I'm going to go run around the house in a magic flying carpet now.  Oh wait, that wouldn't make sense.

You know, I really wouldn't put it past him.

Oh, I don't think he'd ever make a human Reaper, no. Never. But melting down a bunch of non-humans into a Reaper smoothie? Yeah, I could see him doing that.

I could see him throwing aliens at the Reaper fleet, building an army of turian and salarian and asari Reapers to serve humanity and fight the battle. It's out there, yeah, but I wouldn't put it past him. He cares about humanity surviving, but non-humans mean nothing to him.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 02 mars 2010 - 05:35 .

[Turkeysock]

smudboy wrote...

Turkeysock wrote...

What use is there to having a place that makes Reapers? Knowing how to make one can lead to figuring out how to defeat it.

One of many good points on why to keep the base.

And at the end, we see a pad with information supposedly about Harbinger, which basically tells us all we need to know on their strengths and weaknesses. Making them would only get someone with enough access to a number of people to try to create one to use on their own. That is where the real danger comes from.

We see a pad of a picture of a Reaper, supposedly. Not necessarily Harbinger.

It tells us it's a picture of a Reaper.  How the FLYING F&CK does it tell us all we need to know about their strengths and weaknesses?  What joint are you on tonight?

Who said anyone's going to make a Reaper?  What are you, hallucinating too?

"Making them would only get someone with enough access to a number of people to try to" --> wow, this is totally incoherent.   Do you think before you hit the submit button?

Right.  Because TIM clearly wants to continue melting down millions of human lives to make a giant human Reaper.  Of course.  You have revealed his master plan, you master of deduction.  I'm so glad we you have the intelligence to use a mouse and grace us with your...other intelligence.  I'm going to go run around the house in a magic flying carpet now.  Oh wait, that wouldn't make sense.

You are correct, I was typing and didn't check to see what I wrote until after I hit the button. Let me clarify what I was trying to say. Having the ability to make one would only encourage those who have access to large populations of people to actually attempt to make one. As history tends to show us, people tend to make the same stupid mistake countless times.

Now how does this apply to allowing TIM to keep the Collector base? Well simple, because TIM is the kind of person who one could see as finishing the Human Reaper. Why do I think this, because if he believed that creating a Human Reaper under his control would be for the "greater good" of Humanity, HE WILL DO IT. He has stated he will do ANYTHING to ensure that humanity will win.

[CmdrFenix83]

I couldn't understand anyone wanting to keep it. Even if the tech was already proven to not cause indoctrination, then what good is the base? Any ounce of information in there that is of any value, you can be pretty sure that EDI would have datamined it already while you were busy plowing through the Collectors to get to the core.



The only thing the base would give you is the ability to make more Reapers. As Shepard can say, "It liquified people!" that's all we know that the base did. Make new Reapers. Keeping the actual facility is pointless unless you're planning on juicing people to make your own Reaper, or letting the Illusive Man do so.

[Nightwriter]

Turkeysock wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Turkeysock wrote...

What use is there to having a place that makes Reapers? Knowing how to make one can lead to figuring out how to defeat it.

One of many good points on why to keep the base.

And at the end, we see a pad with information supposedly about Harbinger, which basically tells us all we need to know on their strengths and weaknesses. Making them would only get someone with enough access to a number of people to try to create one to use on their own. That is where the real danger comes from.

We see a pad of a picture of a Reaper, supposedly. Not necessarily Harbinger.

It tells us it's a picture of a Reaper.  How the FLYING F&CK does it tell us all we need to know about their strengths and weaknesses?  What joint are you on tonight?

Who said anyone's going to make a Reaper?  What are you, hallucinating too?

"Making them would only get someone with enough access to a number of people to try to" --> wow, this is totally incoherent.   Do you think before you hit the submit button?

Right.  Because TIM clearly wants to continue melting down millions of human lives to make a giant human Reaper.  Of course.  You have revealed his master plan, you master of deduction.  I'm so glad we you have the intelligence to use a mouse and grace us with your...other intelligence.  I'm going to go run around the house in a magic flying carpet now.  Oh wait, that wouldn't make sense.

You are correct, I was typing and didn't check to see what I wrote until after I hit the button. Let me clarify what I was trying to say. Having the ability to make one would only encourage those who have access to large populations of people to actually attempt to make one. As history tends to show us, people tend to make the same stupid mistake countless times.

Now how does this apply to allowing TIM to keep the Collector base? Well simple, because TIM is the kind of person who one could see as finishing the Human Reaper. Why do I think this, because if he believed that creating a Human Reaper under his control would be for the "greater good" of Humanity, HE WILL DO IT. He has stated he will do ANYTHING to ensure that humanity will win.

First of all, I think you are to be commended for how maturely you responded to that post.

Second of all, I quite agree with you. TIM has no limits. He will do anything to achieve his goals. I could see him doing just about anything and justifying it by saying he will do whatever it takes for humanity.

[aznsoisauce]

...a flower/plant Reaper is infinitely more scary than a Human one.

http://www.kingoftho...t/en/index.html
So it's an anime movie. The other movies I could think of to reference aren't good ones. The Ruins? The Happening?
<_<
Troperific paranoia, I suppose.

[Zulmoka531]

The Angry One wrote...

Who said anyone's going to make a Reaper?  What are you, hallucinating too?

What do you think a megalomaniac is going to do with a Reaper-o-matic? Make flowers?

Not just any flower...a Human flower.

[Sharn01]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I wouldn't rule out Cerberus buying slaves from Batarians and making Quarian/Turian/other specie reapers in order to ensure Humanities dominance.

TIM would have no problem's shoving human's into the juicer if he felt it would have even the slightest chance for result's.  He has commited equally disturbing atrocities in the past, why would he stop now?

[Onyx Jaguar]

Sharn01 wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I wouldn't rule out Cerberus buying slaves from Batarians and making Quarian/Turian/other specie reapers in order to ensure Humanities dominance.

TIM would have no problem's shoving human's into the juicer if he felt it would have even the slightest chance for result's.  He has commited equally disturbing atrocities in the past, why would he stop now?

I think he'd try a different species first.  Hopefully something cheap in order for it to be cost effective.

[aznsoisauce]

Zulmoka531 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Who said anyone's going to make a Reaper?  What are you, hallucinating too?

What do you think a megalomaniac is going to do with a Reaper-o-matic? Make flowers?

Not just any flower...a Human flower.

Nightmare fuel YAY

[RicadaSurprise]

I spent a solid five minutes debating wich to do, and thinking about the reprecussions. at first i thought about blowing it up cuz the illusive man is evil. But then i remembered that he has a really weird pattern in his eyes(which also matches the buttons on his shirt), which are blue so that could mean something. But then again I might have just been watching too much lost and M. Knight Shamalon movies and i think everything has a twist the point is theres a conversation wheel on a minimized screen and i still havent made a decision

[Turkeysock]

Thank you for the compliment Night.



Honestly, I believe that there is a lot of danger when TIM decides to continue the Reaper creation process(if you saved the base). But I believe the greater danger would come from when the Reaper comes online... I doubt even reverse engineering the Reaper process would grant TIM the ability to create one that would be under his control! A rogue Reaper, at least how I would see it, would be more dangerous, than one cooperating with the other Reapers.

[knightnblu]

I blew the base because using reaper tech is what they want me to do. The deeper we go into their tech the more control that they have. That is why they built the mass relays, citadel, etc. Additionally, they scrubbed the galaxy to remove any traces of their existence and intentions in order to lure new species in. They wanted us to develop along a pre-chosen path of technology for what I believe are two main reasons: first, any tech we develop will be compatible with their tech and secondly, any tech we develop would have no chance against those who have been developing it for millions of years. In essence, they created it and spent millions of years perfecting it. In that arena we are noobs and are at their mercy no matter what secrets we uncovered or decided to use.



By keeping the base I think that you are just going to end up making TIM and company a heck of a lot stronger and the reapers a heck of a lot tougher and your job in ME3 a heck of a lot harder. We don’t have the time to outsmart the creators of that tech. We need to think outside of the box and develop new tech to combat them that is outside of their development and influence. By proceeding down that path, we just may create something that will surprise them and give us an edge when we face off. Just my .02 on the issue.

[ObserverStatus]

I decided it would be too hard to beat the reapers without the base. TIM will just have to make a reaper out of batarians, no one likes them.

[GenericPlayer2]

Its enough that had I had to take Jack along for "the good of the galaxy". It was personally satisfying to give TIM the finger, so I blew up the base. I don't care if its a bad decision, I am Shep, and Shep always finds a way to win.

[Nightwriter]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

I couldn't understand anyone wanting to keep it. Even if the tech was already proven to not cause indoctrination, then what good is the base? Any ounce of information in there that is of any value, you can be pretty sure that EDI would have datamined it already while you were busy plowing through the Collectors to get to the core.

The only thing the base would give you is the ability to make more Reapers. As Shepard can say, "It liquified people!" that's all we know that the base did. Make new Reapers. Keeping the actual facility is pointless unless you're planning on juicing people to make your own Reaper, or letting the Illusive Man do so.

Well, it's all that we DON'T know about the base that made me want to keep it so badly. I mean, I destroyed it, but I can't pretend the possibilities of what I could learn from it didn't sorely tempt me.

It's full of mysteries. There really is no telling what could be in it or what we might discover. It's all alien. Full of things we might not have ever seen before. Who knows what could be in it?

However, I defer to Miranda's advice. "If you're going to do this, it should be because it's the right decision, and not just to satisfy your own curiosity."

It applied to Legion, it applies here, too.

[Sharn01]

Shepard had around 30 second's top's to make the decision to trust TIM with the base or blow it. The best way to do it when playing is to go with your gut for the character and not think about it elaborately in every possible situation that could arise.

[CmdrFenix83]

Nightwriter wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

I couldn't understand anyone wanting to keep it. Even if the tech was already proven to not cause indoctrination, then what good is the base? Any ounce of information in there that is of any value, you can be pretty sure that EDI would have datamined it already while you were busy plowing through the Collectors to get to the core.

The only thing the base would give you is the ability to make more Reapers. As Shepard can say, "It liquified people!" that's all we know that the base did. Make new Reapers. Keeping the actual facility is pointless unless you're planning on juicing people to make your own Reaper, or letting the Illusive Man do so.

Well, it's all that we DON'T know about the base that made me want to keep it so badly. I mean, I destroyed it, but I can't pretend the possibilities of what I could learn from it didn't sorely tempt me.

It's full of mysteries. There really is no telling what could be in it or what we might discover. It's all alien. Full of things we might not have ever seen before. Who knows what could be in it?

However, I defer to Miranda's advice. "If you're going to do this, it should be because it's the right decision, and not just to satisfy your own curiosity."

It applied to Legion, it applies here, too.

Well, that's probably what that datapad Joker handed you is.  Reaper data that EDI datamined from the Collector Base.  Anything we might need to know, EDI probably already got for us, we just have to wait for ME3 to see it.

[ObserverStatus]

What do you think the data pad said? Was harbinger made from a billion liquefied fleas?

[Nightwriter]

Turkeysock wrote...

Thank you for the compliment Night.

Honestly, I believe that there is a lot of danger when TIM decides to continue the Reaper creation process(if you saved the base). But I believe the greater danger would come from when the Reaper comes online... I doubt even reverse engineering the Reaper process would grant TIM the ability to create one that would be under his control! A rogue Reaper, at least how I would see it, would be more dangerous, than one cooperating with the other Reapers.

You're welcome, and you bring up an interesting point.

About when the Reaper comes online... I always wondered, where does the Reaper's ruling personality come from? It was said each Reaper is a nation, the essence of all the organics that went into creating it, but where does its sovereign consciousness come from?

Do Reapers exist by creating new bodies every cycle and transferring their consciousnesses into them? If so, building a new Reaper would be a disaster, as you'd be activating an old Reaper who would be intent on destroying the galaxy as soon as its new body was turned on.

Or is each new Reaper born with a new Reaper consciousness? And if so, where does it come from? Could it be controlled? For some reason I think not.

[Zyrious]

Nightwriter wrote...

Turkeysock wrote...

Thank you for the compliment Night.

Honestly, I believe that there is a lot of danger when TIM decides to continue the Reaper creation process(if you saved the base). But I believe the greater danger would come from when the Reaper comes online... I doubt even reverse engineering the Reaper process would grant TIM the ability to create one that would be under his control! A rogue Reaper, at least how I would see it, would be more dangerous, than one cooperating with the other Reapers.

You're welcome, and you bring up an interesting point.

About when the Reaper comes online... I always wondered, where does the Reaper's ruling personality come from? It was said each Reaper is a nation, the essence of all the organics that went into creating it, but where does its sovereign consciousness come from?

Do Reapers exist by creating new bodies every cycle and transferring their consciousnesses into them? If so, building a new Reaper would be a disaster, as you'd be activating an old Reaper who would be intent on destroying the galaxy as soon as its new body was turned on.

Or is each new Reaper born with a new Reaper consciousness? And if so, where does it come from? Could it be controlled? For some reason I think not.

Well let's think about this for a second. One of the fundamental technologies of Reapers is indoctrination. It's implied that the conciousness of all those used in the construction of the reaper are transferred into that reaper (It would have been useless tech for the original reapers if it meant they were all going to die, after all). There's no idea how they are either united, or how a chain of command within the ship is set up (this is all likely in some kind of virtual reality aboard the ship, where all the conciousness live out their lives while the ships are in dark space), but indoctrination is likely used to make sure all reapers share the goal's necessary for their continued survival. There is no debate on that issue, but that doesnt necessarily mean there arent many individual beliefs between each "nation" ship.

Modifié par Zyrious, 02 mars 2010 - 06:01 .

[Al-the-Catman]

TIM is an untrustworthy, greedy, maniacal megalomaniac who will only use you as long as you are an "asset"; Reaper tech has almost always come back time & again to bite us in the gluteus maximus (with the exception of EDI, so far). So of course...blow it up real good!!!

[Nightwriter]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Well, that's probably what that datapad Joker handed you is.  Reaper data that EDI datamined from the Collector Base.  Anything we might need to know, EDI probably already got for us, we just have to wait for ME3 to see it.

Ah, you're right. I always forget about that datapad because I'm not really sure what's on it exactly.

Whatever data is on it, I always feel instinctually that it's not as much as what could be learned from studying the Collector base intact. Don't really know why I feel this way. Maybe it's because I always wonder how much information EDI could really download in the short time she was given.

Less than could be learned from keeping the base for long term study, surely. Still, it's enough for me. I really think the base had to be destroyed. A datapad is better than handing it over to TIM.

[Nightwriter]

Zyrious wrote...

Well let's think about this for a second. One of the fundamental technologies of Reapers is indoctrination. It's implied that the conciousness of all those used in the construction of the reaper are transferred into that reaper (It would have been useless tech for the original reapers if it meant they were all going to die, after all). There's no idea how they are either united, or how a chain of command within the ship is set up (this is all likely in some kind of virtual reality aboard the ship, where all the conciousness live out their lives while the ships are in dark space), but indoctrination is likely used to make sure all reapers share the goal's necessary for their continued survival. There is no debate on that issue, but that doesnt necessarily mean there arent many individual beliefs between each "nation" ship.

So... supposing TIM did build a Reaper, then? Would it be controllable? How would it feel about TIM's goals? I'm convinced building a Reaper or having anything to do with a Reaper is bad news, but it does make me wonder.