619 réponses à ce sujet

[NebulaY]

i destroyed it on my first "quick-play-through" without a me import

on my second playthrough with one of my me1 chars i planned to do the same but took legion and tali with me instead of jack and tali as the first time..and legion then said "keeping it is only logical, there is no ethical problem after the reaper has been destroyed" and i thought "hell yeah..he is right..it could give us the edge over the reapers and if TIM would really dare to **** with me i will through him in the reactor of that damn thing before blowing it up later..."

well...i guess i will take another me1 char through to do the "good thing"

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

I kept the Collector base intact on one ending, and blew it up the second time around. Blowing it up centered around my distrust of the Illusive Man and distrust of Reaper technology as was mentioned in other posts. Losing the tech is a setback for Cerberus, the Alliance and the Council...sure, but it's also a setback for the Reapers. And having it fall into the wrong hands is just bad news.



There should of been an option to hand it to the Council at least as proof that Shepard isn't a nutcase. Evidence would be nice, hopefully Joker was taking pictures as the Normandy was being repaired and the Omnitools were recording on the members inside the Collector ship.



It will be interesting to see how the two choices will unfold in ME 3's plot.

[rasblak]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...
To think she didn't have enough time to scan and datamine their entire database several times over is silly.
If there was any information about the Reapers themselves in there, she would have it, easily.

So the "database" of the Reapers is all that's needed? Somehow that's different and separate from "the tech itself", right?
Why bother going after the IFF module if "the tech itself" is such a bad thing to have around?

If EDI can't hack into the Omega 4 relay, what makes you think that she can tell head from tail of the reapers' so very valuable "database" thing that you came up with?

CmdrFenix83 wrote...
Studying the tech itself, is just following more along the Reaper path, something they *want* us to do.  Anything that breaks away from the technological evolution that the Reapers followed is a good thing.

So, "Studying the tech itself" is a bad thing, right? Because that's what The Reapers "want us to do"?

Can we hire you to convince, e.g, The USA that revealing the tech they use in their latest cutting-edge weapons is what they should want to do?
And praise the Lord Hallelujah that the rest of the world is out there busy studying that?

CmdrFenix83 wrote...
Even if you think the tech is worth studying, giving the base to a man that has been known to commit atrocities against humanity himself, is just downright imbecilic.

Well, you could be right on that. There's hope for you after all.

Modifié par rasblak, 02 mars 2010 - 10:34 .

[Big Yam]

The only reason to destroy the base is because TIM wants it too much and comes off as a giant sleeze in pushing his agenda.  If he was a more upstanding person, it wouldn't feel so wrong to keep it.

[b1n0ry]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

All this talk about Indoctrination makes me wonder if spending too much time on the Citadel causes indoctrination.

Not impossible but it would have to be on the scale of a decade or more as Anderson is still pretty alert after being on the Citadel for 2 years

I guess thats true.  But since it is not an indoctrination structure or a Reaper it might not.  But because it is built by the Reapers it might have a subtle influence.

"Ah yes... Reapers"

Sometimes I wonder... with all this talk about indoctrination, why not have the Citadel equipped with an indoctrinator in the first place? That would've made life a lot easier for the Reapers in the first game. Stupid Reapers...

[LF1M_Tank]

Note that with regards to EDI, we never really see her unlocked potential pushed to the limits. Where as during the collector ship mission where her limits were pushed to capacity, most her hardware was still locked. Despite this she was able to fight off firewalls across 8000 nodes while downloading data to get control back. It may be wishful thinking on my part, but one would expect she would have much more processing power with full hardware. She was only sitting around doing repairs to the drive core any ways while we were in (yes subjective but meh heh). That and she explains to Shepard after being unlocked at being able to directly combat Reaper viruses since she's partially based on Reaper tech herself (may have paraphased that somewhat) so maybe easier to navigate Collector network second time around?

[NebulaY]

well if TIM makes unjust use of the base in ME3 i hope i may go in and do a little meltdown there.

in ME1 i destroyed at least 4 major cerberus facilitys

in ME2 i plowed through the collectors in the base..

i know the enemies, i know the terrain.... TIM betrays me and the base is toast ^^

[MwRDKY]

It could go really bad should the base has some Reaper stuff - not a far-fetch thought, y'know, and the recovering team will be indoctrinated, and what happened to the team studying the dead Reaper could happen again.

Modifié par MwRDKY, 02 mars 2010 - 09:11 .

[ThisIsMadness91]

If the option had been available, I probably would have turned the base over to the Alliance or the Council. But since the only option was to hand it over to Cerberus (who planned to make a Reaper of their own!), I decided to destroy it.

[horas1990]

I could turn the base to alliance or council but to the illusive man common.Illusive man is one of my favorite characters but i 100 percent do not trust him because i know his kind. He thinks in he's mind that the end justifies the means no matter what the cost so i wouldn't be surprised if he starts killing millions of humans to recreate the human-reaper or using reaper tech to start wars against all other galaxy races. He will justify to himself any act he commits as for the good of humanity even if it means the death of some humans.

[Wild Still]

Collector base didn't match my armour, it had to go.



Plus everything the collectors built looked like a turd with bits of jagged metal poking out, and that made me think of pain.



Where's my all-bran?

[Archereon]

Zulmoka531 wrote...

If I had any other option when keeping it other than handing it to TIM, I would have potentially gone down that route.

Pretty obvious what his post-Reaper motivations are.

TIM= Mass Effect's Palpatine.

[Reiella]

rasblak wrote...

So the "database" of the Reapers is all that's needed? Somehow that's different and separate from "the tech itself", right?
Why bother going after the IFF module if "the tech itself" is such a bad thing to have around?

If EDI can't hack into the Omega 4 relay, what makes you think that she can tell head from tail of the reapers' so very valuable "database" thing that you came up with?

Just a point here, the IFF wasn't so you could access the Relay.  Any old ship was able to access it, they just never came back.  And the flotsam you dropped into on your way shows part of why .

The IFF was so in theory, the automated defenses/ships defending the sector wouldn't know the Normandy wasn't supposed to be there.  It didn't seem to work out so well  for us .  A fair point may be that there were a number of automated systems that didn't frag us on Normandy's approach.  Personally, I feel that the IFF should now be worthless, since one ship did in fact confirm target on the Normandy, which should have invalidated that specific IFF, but that's plot handwavium .

Although more on point, IFF signal hacking is exactly what EDI was programmed for.  That's a pretty primal ECM/ECCM idea .  You make a very good point on her not being able to manage it either.  Although there is a different timescale in play.

[jklinders]

Cerberus has a mind-numbingly bad track record with handling dangerous technology. The fact that EDI did not turn into sovereign(she IS built from Sovereign tech after all) and Shepards cybernetics did not misfire and turn him into a t-800 does not mitigate the fact that Cerberus experiments have a habit of severly screwing up.

Forgive the image this will give you but I have no reason to believe that TIM would use that base for anything other than it was intended to do, buil reapers. So then i would have to stop a cigarrette smoking reaper from activating the Citedel relay because TIM only thought he could control what the reaper would after it was grown. Personally I think that was the only tech in that base. Reaper artificial insemination.

[Big I]

Cerberus can't be trusted not to use the base to attack their enemies, i.e. every other major group, government, or species in the galaxy. Therefore, base go boom.

[Darkened Dragon]

Well my paragon Shep thought about what happened to the Prothean's and how they used Reaper tech, and how Cerberus seems to swipe whatever tech they can and use it to better humanity. When you throw that into the mix, he decided to destroy it so TIM couldn't try and recreate it and causing a Dual fronted war with the Reapers. One from our own turf and the invasion force coming towards the galaxy. TIM's own admission was he wanted to use the tech from it. Why let him build something that's going to try and wipe out every organic lifeform on the off chance he will unlock a secret that will destroy them. Not to mention, he was never very proud of TIM using him as a political symbol and a symbol to his own power. So destroying it was not only a strategic thing to do, but also a means to separate himself from being a tool of TIM. Incidentally, he also chose to tell TIM that Cerberus now works for him now and not the other way around.



Also, when did it come out that the Lazurus project and EDI were developed using Reaper tech?

[rabbitchannel]

I think Cerberus isn't THAT bad. I mean, you guys make TIM sound like he beat Satan in a 1 on 1 bare-knuckle death match.



In any case, I made sure to save it on my first playthrough and then destroy it on my second. Even if TIM did use the base for his own purposes, we'd probably remove it from his possession right after. It's Commander freaking Shepard we're talking about, after all.

[smudboy]

What's worse? The Reapers or TIM?



Do the math.

[Mlow44]

codesmurf wrote...

Destroying the collector base makes no sense, it's not a paragon decision, it's a stupid decision. They were building a reaper at the base, so you're going to find some schematics telling you how it work, once you know how it works you can figure out the best way to kill it.

Sheppard is convinced that the reapers are still coming, so why destroy the only real information you have on your enemy? If he didn't want to work with Cerberus, why not make a pit stop at the citadel and get the council or the alliance to send a fleet to secure the base instead of Cerberus. Even if they don't believe you about the reapers, you have enough scans and other evidence to convince them that there is advanced technology that can be had.

I'm just venting because it seems that for ME2, you don't get to choose between being paragon and renegade, you get to choose between being an idiot or being a jerk.

the base is inherently evil. tens of thousands of humans died horrible, horrible deaths in that place, and that kind of horror can't just be wiped clean by the incentive of technological advancement. technology that would probably lead to more bad situations, at that. we've been told that the Reaper's technology (Mass Relays, the Citadel) have been left behind for us to curve our evolution and advancement to suit their needs. given, they did not expect organics to be able to take this specific tech from them, but i would imagine they still have ways to control or manipulate our use of it to their advantage instead.

finally, the fact that Cerberus would be the first ones on the scene to get the data means they pretty much have monopoly over it. As far as I know, the Reaper IFF was sent to the Illusive Man for instructions on installation protocol. you really think you can convince the council to enter the Omega 4 relay before Cerberus flies in and takes all the most useful tech for themselves? I also wouldn't put it past Cerberus to start using other races to create a Reaper they control.

it's a tough choice, but ultimately, Bioware did right by making its destruction a paragon option. Simply too many things can go wrong or go bad. besides, Shepard still seemed to get Reaper schematics anyway, as seen when Joker hands them to you in the end scene.

[Vaenier]

Blowing it up is the Renegade option. You put your own feelings above the safety of the galaxy. Saving it is Paragon option. You put aside your personal hate for the base in order to use the sacrifices of the Collector's victims to saves countless more innocent lives.

[Bigdoser]

Vaenier wrote...

Blowing it up is the Renegade option. You put your own feelings above the safety of the galaxy. Saving it is Paragon option. You put aside your personal hate for the base in order to use the sacrifices of the Collector's victims to saves countless more innocent lives.

EEER what? that makes no sense =_=

[rwilli80]

The problem with turning the Collector base over to the Alliance, how many times have you been told Cerberus has infiltrated just about all aspects of the Alliance. Hell EDI herself says they get huge donations from the AMIC (Alliance Military Industrial Complex), and who would be the first Alliance goons on the station. That's right so you would basically be handing it over to Cerberus anyway.



So you can turn it over to the Council, ya that's much better lets give advanced tech to people that generally don't like humans, regardless if you let them live or not.



If you want to keep it, the only logical step is to turn it over to TIM and Cerberus. Its one of those devil you know ordeals.

[rabbitchannel]

Mlow44 wrote...

codesmurf wrote...

Destroying the collector base makes no sense, it's not a paragon decision, it's a stupid decision. They were building a reaper at the base, so you're going to find some schematics telling you how it work, once you know how it works you can figure out the best way to kill it.

Sheppard is convinced that the reapers are still coming, so why destroy the only real information you have on your enemy? If he didn't want to work with Cerberus, why not make a pit stop at the citadel and get the council or the alliance to send a fleet to secure the base instead of Cerberus. Even if they don't believe you about the reapers, you have enough scans and other evidence to convince them that there is advanced technology that can be had.

I'm just venting because it seems that for ME2, you don't get to choose between being paragon and renegade, you get to choose between being an idiot or being a jerk.

the base is inherently evil. tens of thousands of humans died horrible, horrible deaths in that place, and that kind of horror can't just be wiped clean by the incentive of technological advancement. technology that would probably lead to more bad situations, at that. we've been told that the Reaper's technology (Mass Relays, the Citadel) have been left behind for us to curve our evolution and advancement to suit their needs. given, they did not expect organics to be able to take this specific tech from them, but i would imagine they still have ways to control or manipulate our use of it to their advantage instead.

finally, the fact that Cerberus would be the first ones on the scene to get the data means they pretty much have monopoly over it. As far as I know, the Reaper IFF was sent to the Illusive Man for instructions on installation protocol. you really think you can convince the council to enter the Omega 4 relay before Cerberus flies in and takes all the most useful tech for themselves? I also wouldn't put it past Cerberus to start using other races to create a Reaper they control.

it's a tough choice, but ultimately, Bioware did right by making its destruction a paragon option. Simply too many things can go wrong or go bad. besides, Shepard still seemed to get Reaper schematics anyway, as seen when Joker hands them to you in the end scene.

"Inherently evil" isn't a good reason. It's fear driven by superstition and emotions. They did not anticipate us getting our hands on the base. The Mass Relays were given to us on purpose. The base wasn't. How exactly are they going to control or manipulate our use of it? We don't have to use the actual tech in the base. We only have to base our own tech on it. Using the blender analogy (a poor one, though), we don't have to use the actual blender. We can just learn how it's built then use it to make more blenders or make our existing ones better.

I always read arguments like, "but Cerberus is EEEEEEEVIL!". But, but the Reapers are eeeeevil too. So what happens you don't take the base and the Reapers slaughter us? Then you can all go, "well, at least TIM didn't get it. What a bastard he was".

Modifié par rabbitchannel, 02 mars 2010 - 05:33 .