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[Maginipowfire]

 This occurred to me when I talked to the Rachni queen messenger, that  Asari that you find on Illium.

Rachni Queen Message

• They are similar (even though that isn't canon since the Collectors are so different from the Protheans)
• As the Asari said, the Rachni remind her of the Keepers, because of the way they work.
• The Rachni were "manipulated" by the Reapers to cause the Rachni war(or to be hostile at least). If they were only approached by the Collectors or the Reapers themselves is not clear, but obviously the Reapers know of their existence.
• If the Rachni were manipulated by the Reapers that may mean that the Reapers have some way to control them. Now, if the Reapers used Rachni traits on the Protheans so they could be controlled remotely as Harbinger does, that would explain why the Collectors look insect-like.

This is obviously purely spectulatory, please don't bash me. 

[Galimor_001]

The keepers are as old as the citadel itself, there is no way the rachni are that old.

This is mentioned in the mail you get from Chorban if you helped him scan the keepers in ME1.

Modifié par Galimor_001, 02 mars 2010 - 02:40 .

[Kelmen Wong]

I believe whatever left over by Reaper will be tarnish+brainwash 1 way or another...

[Wild Still]

The keepers are a plot device.

[cipher_Cero]

Maginipowfire wrote...

 This occurred to me when I talked to the Rachni queen messenger, that  Asari that you find on Illium.

Rachni Queen Message

• They are similar (even though that isn't canon since the Collectors are so different from the Protheans)
• As the Asari said, the Rachni remind her of the Keepers, because of the way they work.
• The Rachni were "manipulated" by the Reapers to cause the Rachni war(or to be hostile at least). If they were only approached by the Collectors or the Reapers themselves is not clear, but obviously the Reapers know of their existence.
• If the Rachni were manipulated by the Reapers that may mean that the Reapers have some way to control them. Now, if the Reapers used Rachni traits on the Protheans so they could be controlled remotely as Harbinger does, that would explain why the Collectors look insect-like.

What doesn't work with your theory is the fact that the rachni are still alive, meaning they have only been around since after the Protheans went extinct. The keepers have been around as long as, if not longer than, the Citadel itself.

It wouldn't make sense that the Reapers took a small number of rachni then left the rest to repopulate, not when the rachni would have remained hostile to the reapers all this time. Leaving them alive would have allowed the rachni to prepare some countermeasure against the Reapers.

The reapers took all the protheans they could find for that same reason (obviously those on Ilos survived the initial attack).


The asari makes that comment due to the fact that the rachni are of a hive mind, which means they are united in fulfilling the needs and wishes of the rachni queen and her collective. The keepers are similar in the sense that they only ever do their jobs around the Citadel. That behavior is common among social insects, not necessarily a "connecting" trait between the rachni and the keepers. The keepers and Collectors are only "hive-minded" because they've already been repurposed.

[SimonTheFrog]

Right.... what if you were right. Why would it matter?

[Maginipowfire]

cipher_Cero wrote...

What doesn't work with your theory is the fact that the rachni are still alive, meaning they have only been around since after the Protheans went extinct. The keepers have been around as long as, if not longer than, the Citadel itself.

It wouldn't make sense that the Reapers took a small number of rachni then left the rest to repopulate, not when the rachni would have remained hostile to the reapers all this time. Leaving them alive would have allowed the rachni to prepare some countermeasure against the Reapers.

The reapers took all the protheans they could find for that same reason (obviously those on Ilos survived the initial attack).


The asari makes that comment due to the fact that the rachni are of a hive mind, which means they are united in fulfilling the needs and wishes of the rachni queen and her collective. The keepers are similar in the sense that they only ever do their jobs around the Citadel. That behavior is common among social insects, not necessarily a "connecting" trait between the rachni and the keepers. The keepers and Collectors are only "hive-minded" because they've already been repurposed.

Again it is all speculation, but there are several reasons the Reapers could have let them to repopulate. Remember that the Rachni were not hostile to the Reapers since they were being manipulated by them until the Rachni wars at least, besides they could be also controlling the Rachni population. The reason that they might have killed all the protheans was because they didn't have that level of manipulation and/or the protheans were already developing countermeasures against the Reapers(conduit/keeper signal manipulation).

The Reapers could also be feeding on them, and just saved some Rachni for dessert since they are so tasty.

The mass relay to the Rachni system was closed, it could have been closed by the Reapers as a mean to know if the sentient life was evolving accordingly.

Yes, the asari made that comment because their behavior is common among social insects, it still doesn't kill the theory that they might be connected.

Inb4: Ah yes, the "Keepers".

Edit:

SimonTheFrog wrote...

Right.... what if you were right. Why would it matter?

It would make me feel warm inside.

Modifié par Maginipowfire, 02 mars 2010 - 03:22 .

[Skilled Seeker]

Ah yes 'the Keepers'. An insectoid race that maintains all functions of Citadel Station and controls the life support systems who when signalled to open a mass relay to dark space. We have dismissed these claims.

[Maginipowfire]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Ah yes 'the Keepers'. An insectoid race that maintains all functions of Citadel Station and controls the life support systems who when signalled to open a mass relay to dark space. We have dismissed these claims.

I shouldn't have edited my post. 

[cipher_Cero]

Maginipowfire wrote...

cipher_Cero wrote...

What doesn't work with your theory is the fact that the rachni are still alive, meaning they have only been around since after the Protheans went extinct. The keepers have been around as long as, if not longer than, the Citadel itself.

It wouldn't make sense that the Reapers took a small number of rachni then left the rest to repopulate, not when the rachni would have remained hostile to the reapers all this time. Leaving them alive would have allowed the rachni to prepare some countermeasure against the Reapers.

The reapers took all the protheans they could find for that same reason (obviously those on Ilos survived the initial attack).


The asari makes that comment due to the fact that the rachni are of a hive mind, which means they are united in fulfilling the needs and wishes of the rachni queen and her collective. The keepers are similar in the sense that they only ever do their jobs around the Citadel. That behavior is common among social insects, not necessarily a "connecting" trait between the rachni and the keepers. The keepers and Collectors are only "hive-minded" because they've already been repurposed.

Again it is all speculation, but there are several reasons the Reapers could have let them to repopulate. Remember that the Rachni were not hostile to the Reapers since they were being manipulated by them until the Rachni wars at least, besides they could be also controlling the Rachni population. The reason that they might have killed all the protheans was because they didn't have that level of manipulation and/or the protheans were already developing countermeasures against the Reapers(conduit/keeper signal manipulation).

The Reapers could also be feeding on them, and just saved some Rachni for dessert since they are so tasty.

The mass relay to the Rachni system was closed, it could have been closed by the Reapers as a mean to know if the sentient life was evolving accordingly.

Yes, the asari made that comment because their behavior is common among social insects, it still doesn't kill the theory that they might be connected..

Uh, no, the Protheans were wiped out because they didn't have a countermeasure until after the initial wave and the Reapers definitely had that level of manipulation. The Protheans had absolutely no idea the Reapers were coming in the first place. They were all either killed or enslaved--the weren't "beyond" manipulation.

The rachni, with their hive mind, are not hard to indoctrinate and repurpose. Take the queen, take the hive. They're definitely not beyond the Reapers' capabilities to enslave them, yet there are still a considerable number that are left alive.
Their discovery, the Rachni Wars, and the subsequent captivity on Noveria were all taking place during this extinction cycle, not before. That's why they took the queen.

First you'll need a stable, concrete explanation as to why so many rachni, particularly budding queens, were left around when the Citadel needs a constant supply of keepers to replace units that have "died." Next, you'll need to prove they have been around as long as the Citadel has. Without that, you have no support for your theory.

You can't just keep saying there's no evidence to prove you're wrong. You have to be right.

[Maginipowfire]

cipher_Cero wrote...

Uh, no, the Protheans were wiped out because they didn't have a countermeasure until after the initial wave and the Reapers definitely had that level of manipulation. The Protheans had absolutely no idea the Reapers were coming in the first place. They were all either killed or enslaved--the weren't "beyond" manipulation.

The rachni, with their hive mind, are not hard to indoctrinate and repurpose. Take the queen, take the hive. They're definitely not beyond the Reapers' capabilities to enslave them, yet there are still a considerable number that are left alive.
Their discovery, the Rachni Wars, and the subsequent captivity on Noveria were all taking place during this extinction cycle, not before. That's why they took the queen.

First you'll need a stable, concrete explanation as to why so many rachni, particularly budding queens, were left around when the Citadel needs a constant supply of keepers to replace units that have "died." Next, you'll need to prove they have been around as long as the Citadel has. Without that, you have no support for your theory.

You can't just keep saying there's no evidence to prove you're wrong. You have to be right.

Oh, no. I'm sorry. I just made this to generate a healthy discussion. I can't prove I'm right because there isn't enough data. I can only present the case with coherent assumptions. If you prove me wrong then, no hard feelings, good game. But if you can't prove me wrong it means that it is plausible, not that it is right.

Well, we don't know how the keepers "keep" their numbers constant, perhaps there are Queen Keepers creating them somewhere hidden on the Citadel.

What I'm thinking is. How would the Reapers control them without having ever encountered them(without knowing they exist). I don't think that is possible. And how would the collectors do anything since the mass relay was closed.

[cipher_Cero]

Maginipowfire wrote...

cipher_Cero wrote...

Uh, no, the Protheans were wiped out because they didn't have a countermeasure until after the initial wave and the Reapers definitely had that level of manipulation. The Protheans had absolutely no idea the Reapers were coming in the first place. They were all either killed or enslaved--the weren't "beyond" manipulation.

The rachni, with their hive mind, are not hard to indoctrinate and repurpose. Take the queen, take the hive. They're definitely not beyond the Reapers' capabilities to enslave them, yet there are still a considerable number that are left alive.
Their discovery, the Rachni Wars, and the subsequent captivity on Noveria were all taking place during this extinction cycle, not before. That's why they took the queen.

First you'll need a stable, concrete explanation as to why so many rachni, particularly budding queens, were left around when the Citadel needs a constant supply of keepers to replace units that have "died." Next, you'll need to prove they have been around as long as the Citadel has. Without that, you have no support for your theory.

You can't just keep saying there's no evidence to prove you're wrong. You have to be right.

Oh, no. I'm sorry. I just made this to generate a healthy discussion. I can't prove I'm right because there isn't enough data. I can only present the case with coherent assumptions. If you prove me wrong then, no hard feelings, good game. But if you can't prove me wrong it means that it is plausible, not that it is right.

Well, we don't know how the keepers "keep" their numbers constant, perhaps there are Queen Keepers creating them somewhere hidden on the Citadel.

What I'm thinking is. How would the Reapers control them without having ever encountered them(without knowing they exist). I don't think that is possible. And how would the collectors do anything since the mass relay was closed.

Queen keepers. Again. Theory based on your own theory based on your own misinformation.

Where the heck did I say the Reapers had no idea the rachni existed? Quit putting words in my mouth. The Reapers keep a constant vigil on organic life. Of course they knew the rachni existed. I'm asking you to come up with a fact-based explanation that makes sense as to why the rachni were left alive when they were obviously enough of a threat to build an army out of, and that they've been around as long as the Citadel has.

Don't get all butthurt. You posed a theory based on your own misinformation, twisting facts and taking them out of context to suit your guesses. It's not healthy discussion. You thought you stumbled onto something great and you wanted to feel good about it. It's not about there not being enough data. It's about you not paying attention to the data in the first place. I don't have to prove you're wrong. It's not my theory. It's yours. You, therefore, are responsible for coming up with the right evidence to support it.

Krogans look like lizards. Maybe they were dinosaurs! I can't be right because there isn't enough data, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong!

[RattleSnake08]

The keepers are a bio-engineered, insectoid race found only on the Citadel. They are completely docile and harmless, and appear to exist for no other reason than to maintain the Citadel and its systems.



The keepers are believed to have been created by the Protheans to serve as caretakers of the station, and have become essential to the Citadel's operation. Very little is known about them, as they do not communicate with other species.

[RattleSnake08]

It is later revealed that the keepers, along with the Citadel, predate the Protheans; they are, in fact, the key to the Reaper genocide, which occurs when a civilization is judged to be sufficiently advanced. According to Vigil, the keepers were likely once a race that was either created, conquered, or 'indoctrinated' by the Reapers, possibly even the first race they enslaved. Whatever their origins, the main purpose of the keepers now is to maintain the Citadel in its attractive state so that sentient organic life will settle there, and support their habitation of the Citadel once they take possession of the station, as they have for countless other races throughout time.



However, once an organic species has settled on the Citadel and reached the required level of technological advancement, the Reapers' current vanguard, a single Reaper left behind to monitor the situation, sends a signal to the keepers compelling them to activate the Citadel relay to dark space, and begin the process of genocide. The Protheans succeeded in altering this reaction to the signal, though too late to save the Protheans themselves from extinction at the hands of the Reapers. The keepers have changed and evolved so they only respond to the Citadel itself; they are now no longer under Reaper control and pose no threat to anyone.



Seeing as the keepers are now useless to the Reapers, Sovereign sought to replace them with a more controllable race, like the geth, believing synthetic races were more predictable and malleable to its wishes.









“The chances of surviving are… slim.” — spoilers for Mass Effect 2 follow.



After Saren's attack on the Citadel, the keepers began repairing the station, even touching up the repair work carried out by the species inhabiting the station. Nobody knows where the keepers get the materials for their repairs from and they have surprised everyone by proving that they are heavy lifters.



Following the discovery that the Collectors were once Protheans that have been transformed by the Reapers, members of the crew aboard Normandy SR-2 speculate that the keepers could also have once been a totally different species which was transformed by the Reapers to suit their needs.



If Shepard aided Chorban in collecting data on the keepers, he will send a message to Shepard detailing his findings. Chorban has discovered that the keepers are engineered and are designed to react to something like a signal which occurs every 50,000 years or so. This point after every 50,000 year gap is accompanied by minor genetic alterations, suggesting that the Reapers modify the keepers with each cycle of extinction.

[Maginipowfire]

cipher_Cero wrote...

Queen keepers. Again. Theory based on your own theory based on your own misinformation.

Where the heck did I say the Reapers had no idea the rachni existed? Quit putting words in my mouth. The Reapers keep a constant vigil on organic life. Of course they knew the rachni existed. I'm asking you to come up with a fact-based explanation that makes sense as to why the rachni were left alive when they were obviously enough of a threat to build an army out of, and that they've been around as long as the Citadel has.

Don't get all butthurt. You posed a theory based on your own misinformation, twisting facts and taking them out of context to suit your guesses. It's not healthy discussion. You thought you stumbled onto something great and you wanted to feel good about it. It's not about there not being enough data. It's about you not paying attention to the data in the first place. I don't have to prove you're wrong. It's not my theory. It's yours. You, therefore, are responsible for coming up with the right evidence to support it.

Krogans look like lizards. Maybe they were dinosaurs! I can't be right because there isn't enough data, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong!

Ok. I never said you said that dude.
But now that you said of course that they knew the rachni existed, doesn't that mean that the rachni were here in the last extinction cycle? Yeah, they could know by Sovereign or by the collectors, but the mass relay to that place was closed. Again, yes Sovereign could have closed it, but it is all plausible.

And I already answered why the rachni were left alive when they were obviously enough of a threat to build an army out of. Because they weren't enough of a threat. Not when they were indoctrinated.

I'm not butthurt at all, and if it makes you happy, I know I can't prove it is right, but that is not what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to prove it is plausible.

And I don't see how I was misinformed, I'm basing my assumptions all from the fact that keepers and rachni are similar, that rachni had the highest contact with the Reapers other then the keepers or the collectors, and the history of both the keepers and the rachni is a mistery. Yes it is little, but that is not misinformed.

And who knows, Krogan might have been dinosaurs after all, but dinosaurs aren't a big part on the mass effect story, they are not even mentioned.

[JediMB]

cipher_Cero wrote...

I'm asking you to come up with a fact-based explanation that makes sense as to why the rachni were left alive when they were obviously enough of a threat to build an army out of, and that they've been around as long as the Citadel has.

I'd like to suggest the possibility that the rachni simply avoided extinction because they were able to burrow beneath their planets' surface until the Reapers lost interest or assumed that they had killed everything.

The revelations in regards to the Rachni Wars suggest that a Reaper was observing the rachni, though, so there are complications.

[Forsakerr]

the rachnii Queens have a collective memory or if you prefer remembers everything that had happened with their ancestors.





*spoiler







if you saved the rachnii queen in ME1 you get a message from the queen in this game telling you that they were used by the reapers in the Rachnii war (or at least she thinks they were) if they had met the reapers before the Rachnii war she would also remember it and her ancestors would also have remembered it so they could nt have been indoctrinated

[Maginipowfire]

Forsakerr wrote...

the rachnii Queens have a collective memory or if you prefer remembers everything that had happened with their ancestors.


*spoiler



if you saved the rachnii queen in ME1 you get a message from the queen in this game telling you that they were used by the reapers in the Rachnii war (or at least she thinks they were) if they had met the reapers before the Rachnii war she would also remember it and her ancestors would also have remembered it so they could nt have been indoctrinated

Clearly her memory is not perfect. Also in ME1 she says that she doesn't remember the war because she was only an egg. So, she may be regaining her memory, or she doesn't remember everything.

Assuming memories occupy a space in a rachni cerebrum/mind they must have some sort of selective memory to store everything usefull. Perhaps in 50,000 years that memory went away.

[Maginipowfire]

JediMB wrote...

cipher_Cero wrote...

I'm asking you to come up with a fact-based explanation that makes sense as to why the rachni were left alive when they were obviously enough of a threat to build an army out of, and that they've been around as long as the Citadel has.

I'd like to suggest the possibility that the rachni simply avoided extinction because they were able to burrow beneath their planets' surface until the Reapers lost interest or assumed that they had killed everything.

The revelations in regards to the Rachni Wars suggest that a Reaper was observing the rachni, though, so there are complications.

Makes sense. They could have also sent a ship with eggs in cryogenic suspension, in the hopes someone would find them, just like it happened with the rachni queen.

[ObserverStatus]

It is possible, given that the collectors look nothing like the protheans, but the rachni look more like jumbo shrimp than keepers to me.

[DarthCaine]

Sten: No.

[drew.winters]

I think it's possible that the Keepers are what is left of the race that originally created the Reapers.



Alternatively, they could be the remnants of the race that turned into the Reapers.