Rather than doing a complete 180 on their stance from ME1, I think it would have been better for the Council to, after two years with absolutely no signs of the Reapers, come to the conclusion that their threat died with Sovereign...
I would still be pissed at them for being blind, but at least I wouldn't be wondering how a sane government could appoint someone so stupi...
Oh wait...
How the Council should have been handled.
Débuté par
Archereon
, mars 02 2010 03:33
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#3
Posté 02 mars 2010 - 03:36
Archereon
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Onyx Jaguar wrote...
Hrm.
Hrm? (What could that mean...
Harbinger
Reads
Manga (It makes perfect sense, just listen to his one liners.)
#4
Posté 02 mars 2010 - 03:36
Sphynx118
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Hi im Mac walters, lead writer of Mass effect 2, and i do not see the logic here. Lets just make them retarded instead lolololol
Modifié par Sphynx118, 02 mars 2010 - 03:37 .
#5
Posté 02 mars 2010 - 03:37
Onyx Jaguar
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Yes
*nods head
ALSO I AGREE THAT THE COUNCIL SHOULD HAVE JUST SAID THE REAPER THREAT HAD DIED
*nods head
*nods head
ALSO I AGREE THAT THE COUNCIL SHOULD HAVE JUST SAID THE REAPER THREAT HAD DIED
*nods head
#6
Posté 02 mars 2010 - 03:42
Avissel
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In order to not cause a wide spreed panic by telling people "There are alot more of those things just beat the living **** out of our entire fleet out there." They tried to calm the situation down, with Shepard dead the only voice talking about the Reapers the people cared about was gone, the Council managed to convince themselves that the problem wasn't real. Cant blame them for wanting to think they giant galaxy ending monsters weren't real.
Honestly it's a pretty realistic reaction.
Honestly it's a pretty realistic reaction.
#7
Posté 02 mars 2010 - 03:46
Archereon
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Avissel: And yet with the very real possibility that the Reapers, a post singularity race that has destroyed galactic civilization hundreds of times over and has technology so advanced that they can travel across galaxies in seconds and land a 2 billion ton ship on a planet, are real, should prompt something other than denial.
I can more easily see them convincing themselves that the Reaper threat died with Sovereign, and devoting only a token effort (reinstating Shepard and such) to be on the lookout for the Reapers.
I can more easily see them convincing themselves that the Reaper threat died with Sovereign, and devoting only a token effort (reinstating Shepard and such) to be on the lookout for the Reapers.
#8
Posté 02 mars 2010 - 03:50
Avissel
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You have to remember though. Our knowledge of the Reapers isn't the same as the Council's knowledge. They never talked to Sovereign, or Vigil. There was no "smoking gun" ever presented to them that could prove Sovereign was more than a highly advanced warship.
They wrote the wreckage off as "Well thats just geth tech for you." as means to not have to deal with the issue at the time, with Shepard gone they never had to deal with it at all.
They wrote the wreckage off as "Well thats just geth tech for you." as means to not have to deal with the issue at the time, with Shepard gone they never had to deal with it at all.
#9
Posté 02 mars 2010 - 05:56
Big I
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Here's why the Council's reaction makes no sense:
Records - No helmet cams in the future? Really? What about omnitools, don't they record stuff?
Legion - You can bring Legion to that meeting if you wait long enough, and he tells them they didn't build (in fact, are technologically incapable of building) Sovereign. For no reason, they don't believe him.
The Beacons - So Shepard got visions from the beacons; Liara was able to see those visions by melding with him. To prove that the visions are real and not Shepard being crazy, send another asari to meld with him. Isn't there an asari on the Council?
The Cipher - Shiala can be spared, and possesses the Cipher. Why not verify the Cipher (which she got from a 50000 year old sentient plant which had no reason to lie to her) by getting her to give it to people researching the Protheans? If it's useful to them in their researches, it's probably legit; if it's legit, Shepard's probably right about the visions (i.e Reapers destroyed the Protheans).
Indoctrintation - You can save people who have witnessed indoctrination (Shiala, that one sane salarian on Virmire, and Rana, a scientist who actally studied it). So that proves it exists. It has only ever been seen to be used by one ship; Sovereign. If Sovereign is geth technology, why isn't every geth ship indoctrinating people? Or why don't they have big indoctrination machines or an indoctrination ray or something?
Shepard's Track Record - Shepard has been right three times when the Council thought he was nuts; 1) Saren's a traitor, 2) Saren's looking for the Conduit (which is a real thing), and 3) Saren's going to use the Conduit (which is a real thing) to attack the Citadel. He not only proved he wasn't nuts, he proved he was completely correct about everything and then, to rub their faces in how awesome he is, saved the Citadel. Maybe he's earned a little faith? Maybe?
Occams Razor - the simplest explanation is most often the right one.
1)What Shepard Believes: there is a single common factor behind the Prothean extinction, the preiodic extinction of intelligent life in the galaxy, Saren's actions, and the abduction of humans in the Terminus systems; that factor is the Reapers.
2)What the Council Believes: There is no such things as Reapers. The Prothean extinction, and any other such extinctions, has no bearing on anything happening today; furthermore, Saren's actions and the abductions are unrelated. Everything Shepard experienced/believes is the result of his manipulation by Saren and/or Cerberus. This means that the Beacon visions were either the results of Shepard's imagination or were planted by Saren; that his conversation with Sovereign on Virmire, and his conversations with Saren on Virmire and the Citadel, were all staged by Saren to make him believe in the Reapers; that on his way to the Conduit to invade the Citadel Saren stopped to plant Vigil in an ancient Prothean computer system in order to further fool Shepard into believeing the Reapers exist; and that the Cipher was not what Saren wanted from the Thorian, because you only need the Cipher to understand the visions, which were not real. It also means that Saren, a trusted and dedicated Spectre, betrayed the Council for no reason; that upon deciding this, he then decided that the best way to destroy the Council was to make contact with the Geth, the first to do so in 3 centuries; he then came up with the Reapers as a way of tricking the Geth into serving him; he then somehow made it through the Veil and convinced them with no proof that the Reapers existed, and he served as their agent, whereupon they gave him the (one of a kind, unreproduceable, no plans no prototype) dreadnought Sovereign, a ship incorporating technology found in no other geth machine and able to seamlessly integrate with and control the Citadel. Finally, it means that Cerberus is behind the Terminus abductions, possibly while working with the Collectors (who aren't supposed to exist), even when they're saving the colony on Horizon. NONE OF THAT MAKES SENSE
But apart from all that, the Council is completely logical.
Records - No helmet cams in the future? Really? What about omnitools, don't they record stuff?
Legion - You can bring Legion to that meeting if you wait long enough, and he tells them they didn't build (in fact, are technologically incapable of building) Sovereign. For no reason, they don't believe him.
The Beacons - So Shepard got visions from the beacons; Liara was able to see those visions by melding with him. To prove that the visions are real and not Shepard being crazy, send another asari to meld with him. Isn't there an asari on the Council?
The Cipher - Shiala can be spared, and possesses the Cipher. Why not verify the Cipher (which she got from a 50000 year old sentient plant which had no reason to lie to her) by getting her to give it to people researching the Protheans? If it's useful to them in their researches, it's probably legit; if it's legit, Shepard's probably right about the visions (i.e Reapers destroyed the Protheans).
Indoctrintation - You can save people who have witnessed indoctrination (Shiala, that one sane salarian on Virmire, and Rana, a scientist who actally studied it). So that proves it exists. It has only ever been seen to be used by one ship; Sovereign. If Sovereign is geth technology, why isn't every geth ship indoctrinating people? Or why don't they have big indoctrination machines or an indoctrination ray or something?
Shepard's Track Record - Shepard has been right three times when the Council thought he was nuts; 1) Saren's a traitor, 2) Saren's looking for the Conduit (which is a real thing), and 3) Saren's going to use the Conduit (which is a real thing) to attack the Citadel. He not only proved he wasn't nuts, he proved he was completely correct about everything and then, to rub their faces in how awesome he is, saved the Citadel. Maybe he's earned a little faith? Maybe?
Occams Razor - the simplest explanation is most often the right one.
1)What Shepard Believes: there is a single common factor behind the Prothean extinction, the preiodic extinction of intelligent life in the galaxy, Saren's actions, and the abduction of humans in the Terminus systems; that factor is the Reapers.
2)What the Council Believes: There is no such things as Reapers. The Prothean extinction, and any other such extinctions, has no bearing on anything happening today; furthermore, Saren's actions and the abductions are unrelated. Everything Shepard experienced/believes is the result of his manipulation by Saren and/or Cerberus. This means that the Beacon visions were either the results of Shepard's imagination or were planted by Saren; that his conversation with Sovereign on Virmire, and his conversations with Saren on Virmire and the Citadel, were all staged by Saren to make him believe in the Reapers; that on his way to the Conduit to invade the Citadel Saren stopped to plant Vigil in an ancient Prothean computer system in order to further fool Shepard into believeing the Reapers exist; and that the Cipher was not what Saren wanted from the Thorian, because you only need the Cipher to understand the visions, which were not real. It also means that Saren, a trusted and dedicated Spectre, betrayed the Council for no reason; that upon deciding this, he then decided that the best way to destroy the Council was to make contact with the Geth, the first to do so in 3 centuries; he then came up with the Reapers as a way of tricking the Geth into serving him; he then somehow made it through the Veil and convinced them with no proof that the Reapers existed, and he served as their agent, whereupon they gave him the (one of a kind, unreproduceable, no plans no prototype) dreadnought Sovereign, a ship incorporating technology found in no other geth machine and able to seamlessly integrate with and control the Citadel. Finally, it means that Cerberus is behind the Terminus abductions, possibly while working with the Collectors (who aren't supposed to exist), even when they're saving the colony on Horizon. NONE OF THAT MAKES SENSE
But apart from all that, the Council is completely logical.
#10
Guest_justinnstuff_*
Posté 02 mars 2010 - 06:03
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I can't wait to see the look on the Turian Councilor's face when the reapers show up. I really hope we get to "ah yes, reapers" him back.
#11
Guest_Littledoom_*
Posté 02 mars 2010 - 06:09
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Sphynx118 wrote...
Hi im Mac walters, lead writer of Mass effect 2, and i do not see the logic here. Lets just make them retarded instead lolololol
This
#12
Posté 02 mars 2010 - 06:12
Daeion
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I agree, having them believe the threat died with Sovereign would have made the existence of the derelict reaper seem like less of a plot hole because with the current set up here you have proof that at least the reapers aren't of Geth origin but you do nothing with it where as if the council just believed the threat had passed, all this does is show they were here in the past.
