104 réponses à ce sujet

[CmdrFenix83]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

The Flotilla is the largest Navy in existence, and probably the most advanced when it was first formed. (At least among the Military ships.) They could EASILY defend any single planet they choose to inhabit, and then expand from there.

The Galaxy is massive, and by all accounts, in-game and otherwise, there are actually HUNDREDS of colonizable planets. The Galaxy is TOO BIG for there NOT to be a place for the quarians, I mean read look at your galaxy map for god's sake. There are dozens of worlds with no or little effort to colonize.

The Terminus is officially not Citadel-space, and it's massive. The Systems Alliance in like 20 years has been able to colonize dozens of worlds within the Terminus, against laughable pirate and slaver bands. Even more so, while the Attican Traverse is at the edge of Citadel space, it too is NOT policed by the Citadel. 

The lack of any quarian colonization effort ANYWHERE doesn't make any sense. At the very least they could've made an artificial habitat if the world wasn't necessarily as habitable as they wanted it to be.

(Most of the Clusters you visit in both ME1 and ME2 are either within the Attican Traverse (Citadel frontier, unpoliced) or the Terminus Systems (non-Citadel Space). There were losts of Clusters, more Systems and WAY more planets. They could have settled.)

You're assuming most of these worlds are habitable.  Most of those planets aren't possible to colonize.  Most of the clusters you visit don't have a world within the life-giving range of a star.  Many are already colonized, and nothing in Citadel space is open, so that just leaves the Terminus. 

You also remember that Tali also states at one point in her loyalty mission(if you push for colonization) that it would be so much more difficult to adapt to.  "It's the difference between 60 years and 600."  They aren't just going to plop down anywhere, because no one would get any benefit out of it for centuries.  Think about it this way, even if they had colonized a world immediately after being pushed beyond the Veil, they *still* wouldn't be able to walk around without their suits, or they'd get ill.  Not to mention the countless numbers of individuals that would actually die to these new diseases.

It's not as simple as 'well just go get a new place!'.  The choices are set up as "war with Geth" or "coexistence with Geth".  The other options aren't feasible.  They need their homeworld back for anyone alive today to spend more than a couple moments out of their suits.

[GnusmasTHX]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

The Flotilla is the largest Navy in existence, and probably the most advanced when it was first formed. (At least among the Military ships.) They could EASILY defend any single planet they choose to inhabit, and then expand from there.

The Galaxy is massive, and by all accounts, in-game and otherwise, there are actually HUNDREDS of colonizable planets. The Galaxy is TOO BIG for there NOT to be a place for the quarians, I mean read look at your galaxy map for god's sake. There are dozens of worlds with no or little effort to colonize.

The Terminus is officially not Citadel-space, and it's massive. The Systems Alliance in like 20 years has been able to colonize dozens of worlds within the Terminus, against laughable pirate and slaver bands. Even more so, while the Attican Traverse is at the edge of Citadel space, it too is NOT policed by the Citadel. 

The lack of any quarian colonization effort ANYWHERE doesn't make any sense. At the very least they could've made an artificial habitat if the world wasn't necessarily as habitable as they wanted it to be.

(Most of the Clusters you visit in both ME1 and ME2 are either within the Attican Traverse (Citadel frontier, unpoliced) or the Terminus Systems (non-Citadel Space). There were losts of Clusters, more Systems and WAY more planets. They could have settled.)

You're assuming most of these worlds are habitable.  Most of those planets aren't possible to colonize.  Most of the clusters you visit don't have a world within the life-giving range of a star.  Many are already colonized, and nothing in Citadel space is open, so that just leaves the Terminus. 

You also remember that Tali also states at one point in her loyalty mission(if you push for colonization) that it would be so much more difficult to adapt to.  "It's the difference between 60 years and 600."  They aren't just going to plop down anywhere, because no one would get any benefit out of it for centuries.  Think about it this way, even if they had colonized a world immediately after being pushed beyond the Veil, they *still* wouldn't be able to walk around without their suits, or they'd get ill.  Not to mention the countless numbers of individuals that would actually die to these new diseases.

It's not as simple as 'well just go get a new place!'.  The choices are set up as "war with Geth" or "coexistence with Geth".  The other options aren't feasible.  They need their homeworld back for anyone alive today to spend more than a couple moments out of their suits.

There are dozens of habitable worlds if you read the planet entries when you scan. This has been the case in both ME1 and ME2. The Terminus is easily colonizable, along with the Traverse. You can't argue that there isn't a place for the quarians to have settled down.

No, they don't need their homeworlds back. I mean, the quarians colonized entire systems BEFORE all this happened. Just like every other race out there. Their immune systems are even weaker now than they were 300 years ago, so it probably WOULD take longer. But we do know that before the Morning War, colonization and habitation of worlds was feasible, if not common for the quarian race. Why did they just stop when they were forced off of all their colonies?

At the very least, a sizable colony should've been formed maybe 100 years after the Morning War. By then they should've realized a contingency plan was needed in case the Flotilla was wiped out, and also the bonus of actually having a home they could learn to adapt to. And after a 100 years, maybe they would've realized that the geth had no intention of hunting them down like interstellar boogeymen. 

They simply waited too long to colonize a world, and now their immune systems are beyond the point of no return. Or at the very least, "beyond the point where we don't even want to bother trying, and would rather submit our entire race to open war"

Think about it; in the 20 years humanity has been on the galactic spotlight, they've colonized DOZENS of worlds, some garden paradises,  some industrial and some agricultural. We literally have a planet for EVERYTHING now.

Eden Prime.
Terra Nova.
Horizon.
Freedom's Progress.

There are obviously worlds to FIND. But the quarians never bothered looking, and now they apparently "can't" afford to try to adapt to a new environment.

EDIT: I'm not saying the quarians should've colonized these worlds as if their immune system issues didn't exist, I'm just saying the abundance of worlds is... Yeah. There's an abundance of worlds. Galaxy is too massive. The Systems Alliance is proof of its size. 

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 03 mars 2010 - 01:51 .

[CmdrFenix83]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

There are dozens of habitable worlds if you read the planet entries when you scan. This has been the case in both ME1 and ME2. The Terminus is easily colonizable, along with the Traverse. You can't argue that there isn't a place for the quarians to have settled down.

No, they don't need their homeworlds back. I mean, the quarians colonized entire systems BEFORE all this happened. Just like every other race out there. Their immune systems are even weaker now than they were 300 years ago, so it probably WOULD take longer. But we do know that before the Morning War, colonization and habitation of worlds was feasible, if not common for the quarian race. Why did they just stop when they were forced off of all their colonies?

At the very least, a sizable colony should've been formed maybe 100 years after the Morning War. By then they should've realized a contingency plan was needed in case the Flotilla was wiped out, and also the bonus of actually having a home they could learn to adapt to. And after a 100 years, maybe they would've realized that the geth had no intention of hunting them down like interstellar boogeymen. 

They simply waited too long to colonize a world, and now their immune systems are beyond the point of no return. Or at the very least, "beyond the point where we don't even want to bother trying, and would rather submit our entire race to open war"

Think about it; in the 20 years humanity has been on the galactic spotlight, they've colonized DOZENS of worlds, some garden paradises,  some industrial and some agricultural. We literally have a planet for EVERYTHING now.

Eden Prime.
Terra Nova.
Horizon.
Freedom's Progress.

There are obviously worlds to FIND. But the quarians never bothered looking, and now they apparently "can't" afford to try to adapt to a new environment.

EDIT: I'm not saying the quarians should've colonized these worlds as if their immune system issues didn't exist, I'm just saying the abundance of worlds is... Yeah. There's an abundance of worlds. Galaxy is too massive. The Systems Alliance is proof of its size. 

Well, remember, the Quarians tried this once.  The Council made them leave, threatened to use force as well, and then gave the world to the Elcor.  Who knows how many times they tired.  We can't be sure, because we, the players, don't know.  Settling the Terminous Systems doesn't sound like a good idea for any race, but we don't know whether or not they tried and failed, or if they never tried. 

Won't matter anyway.  They've set it up to 'peace with Geth' or 'war with Geth'.  One results in sharing their homeworld, the other ends with one race wiped out for the most part.

[rabbitchannel]

I don't know why but I never really warmed up to Tali. So... I'd have to pick Legion and the Geth. Though if there were a Paragon option to persuade them to make nice, I'd go with that.

[GnusmasTHX]

I didn't know they tried before. I've never heard it. If they tried, that counts for something. But the Terminus is colonizable. We're doing it in ME2. For the quarians, the largest Nazy in existence would be ample deterrent for any pirates or slavers to attack.



Anyway, I think it's still a failure of the quarian planning committee that their ONLY choice is war/extinction vs. an unlikely peace with the people who killed you.

[CmdrFenix83]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

I didn't know they tried before. I've never heard it. If they tried, that counts for something. But the Terminus is colonizable. We're doing it in ME2. For the quarians, the largest Nazy in existence would be ample deterrent for any pirates or slavers to attack.

Anyway, I think it's still a failure of the quarian planning committee that their ONLY choice is war/extinction vs. an unlikely peace with the people who killed you.

Yup yup.  As someone pointed out earlier in the thread.  masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Ekuna

It's not a failure on the Quarian behalf, it's the BioWare writers that decided that we would heavily influence the Quarian fate by the end of the trilogy.

[BlightWalker]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

I didn't know they tried before. I've never heard it. If they tried, that counts for something. But the Terminus is colonizable. We're doing it in ME2. For the quarians, the largest Nazy in existence would be ample deterrent for any pirates or slavers to attack.

Anyway, I think it's still a failure of the quarian planning committee that their ONLY choice is war/extinction vs. an unlikely peace with the people who killed you.

Yup yup.  As someone pointed out earlier in the thread.  masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Ekuna

It's not a failure on the Quarian behalf, it's the BioWare writers that decided that we would heavily influence the Quarian fate by the end of the trilogy.

God forbid BW wanted to portray them in that way and not in the one that fits your views.

[CmdrFenix83]

BlightWalker wrote...

God forbid BW wanted to portray them in that way and not in the one that fits your views.

Eh?  I'm perfectly happy with the way things played out.  I even look forward to helping Tali retake the homeworld on my main Shepard, and helping bring the two races back together like estranged siblings on most of my other playthroughs.

[FlintlockJazz]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

CmdrFenix83 does raise a good point as to how Legion found out about the quarian experiments, since unless you revealed it at the court the only people to know about it are Shepard, Tali, the other team member you took with you and Admiral Xen, with everyone else being dead. You find Tali and Legion together, which is also strange, my Shep trusts Legion but that does look odd at the very least.

As to those saying that the Quarians should've just looked for a new homeworld, go read up on the planetary description for Ekuna to learn why they didn't and also to learn of the Council's stance on Quarians...

Another good point.  Outside of the Perisus Veil, it's unlikely the Council will grant the Quarian people any world whatsoever.  Looks like their choices are float around, fight Geth for territory, or find some way to coexist.  It's pretty obvious that the latter two are going to be what happens in ME3 based off of your actions in ME2.  Results of said war might vary depending on your actions in ME1(Geth Data) and ME2.

Thanks for that mention, by the way.  I had to look it up to see what you were referring to, but it's a good point against the idea of colonizing.

Aye, I only found that place myself couple of days ago, after trying to check out all the planets I had missed during my last playthrough.  Found it rather interesting as it raises questions on just how much control the council really does exert, since I thought they were kind of like the UN, but in reality they seem to be pretty much running everything.

As to settling the Terminus Systems, remember that one of the biggest advantages is that they can just move around without worrying about defending settlements.  If they were to settle the Terminus Systems they would lose that advantage, and considering that the Quarians still seem to want to be part of the Council space the Terminus Races might consider their moving in to be an act of war.  That could get messy.

[Costin_Razvan]

The quarians are pathetic in my eyes. What, they want to wage a war when the reapers are coming? ( and they know that ) Hell, it was because of Tali's info on the reapers that they even started considering a war with the Geth.



If I have to chose. I shall commit genocide upon the Quarians. They deserve it.

[FlintlockJazz]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

The quarians are pathetic in my eyes. What, they want to wage a war when the reapers are coming? ( and they know that ) Hell, it was because of Tali's info on the reapers that they even started considering a war with the Geth.

If I have to chose. I shall commit genocide upon the Quarians. They deserve it.

So you want to wipe out humanity too?  The Alliance refuses to believe the Reapers are real too.  And you would quite happily murder children too?  Children who have had nothing to do with the whole thing?

[Deflagratio]

It's not possible to beat the geth. Like the Heretic Station, many of the Geth primary hubs are between stars, and virtually impossible to find without prior knowledge. Since you cannot physically kill geth without destroying their root runtimes and all backups of that particular units memories, they have effectively unlimited manpower and a self-replenishing army. As for resource starvation, Machines can harvest in areas organics can't get within 1,000,000 KM of. Resource scarcity would not exist among the Geth. 

Though they do have one weakeness, the neural network. Adrimal Xen may crack that and turn it against the Geth and indoctrinate (more or less) the remaining geth into quarian hands once again. But I doubt it, she'll prolly get a cut and die of sepsis.

[Costin_Razvan]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

So you want to wipe out humanity too?  The Alliance refuses to believe the Reapers are real too.  And you would quite happily murder children too?  Children who have had nothing to do with the whole thing?

The alliance didn't decide to play God. The quarians did by creating the geth and then trying ( and still trying ) to wipe them out just for achieving sapience and defending themselves. The alliance isn't heading for war with one of the strongest allies I have against the reapers.

The alliance also doesn't speak for the majority of humanity. but most quarians do believe that they should either wipe out the geth, or enslave them again, even Tali does think like this. With only a small minority of people ( like Korris and Reager ) who think otherwise.

So no, I wouldn't feel anything bad about killing the entire quarian race.

[Dethateer]

Species. And me neither. I like them, but you have no right to kill something just because you created it.

[Noodlesoupninja]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

So you want to wipe out humanity too?  The Alliance refuses to believe the Reapers are real too.  And you would quite happily murder children too?  Children who have had nothing to do with the whole thing?

The alliance didn't decide to play God. The quarians did by creating the geth and then trying ( and still trying ) to wipe them out just for achieving sapience and defending themselves. The alliance isn't heading for war with one of the strongest allies I have against the reapers.

The alliance also doesn't speak for the majority of humanity. but most quarians do believe that they should either wipe out the geth, or enslave them again, even Tali does think like this. With only a small minority of people ( like Korris and Reager ) who think otherwise.

So no, I wouldn't feel anything bad about killing the entire quarian race.

I'm glad people think of genecide so positively

[Costin_Razvan]

I am glad so many people are quick to overlook the Quarians are playing God. They call the Illusive Man a criminal, hah, what he does pales in comprasion to what the Quarians did and are still trying to do for their OWN BLOODY SELFISH REASONS. At least TIM is trying to help humanity ( even if it means he wants to lead humans )

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 06 mars 2010 - 02:20 .

[Chakku Sama]

Legion is the only Geth I like, specially that dance of his.



Shepard Commander. Watch me Dance.

"BEE BAKA BOW"

[Noodlesoupninja]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I am glad so many people are quick to overlook the Quarians are playing God. Even Cerberus is far better then them.

Wow you're funny

[GiroX-]

Idk, because I dont like Tali at all (idk why), but Legion is my boy. But the thing is, if you took the geth side, would they still fight you? That the only thing, so I would probably still take Tali and the Quarian's side.

[Chakku Sama]

A geth army would be awesome, sort've why I re-wrote the geth.

[Dethateer]

Noodlesoupninja wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I am glad so many people are quick to overlook the Quarians are playing God. Even Cerberus is far better then them.

Wow you're funny

Could you be bothered to make a coherent argument to reply to the man without looking like an utter idiot?
Cerberus never attempted the extermination of an entire sapient species (except for the Collectors, but they weren't sapient anymore, plus Cerberus had a good reason to clear them out), nor do they plan to do so.

Modifié par Dethateer, 06 mars 2010 - 02:41 .

[Noodlesoupninja]

Dethateer wrote...

Noodlesoupninja wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I am glad so many people are quick to overlook the Quarians are playing God. Even Cerberus is far better then them.

Wow you're funny

Could you be bothered to make a coherent argument to reply to the man without looking like an utter idiot?
Cerberus never attempted the extermination of an entire sapient species (except for the Collectors, but they weren't sapient anymore, plus Cerberus had a good reason to clear them out), nor do they plan to do so.

The geth allowed a splinter faction of theirs to almost wipe out all life in the galaxy.

[Dethateer]

Keywords: splinter faction, not to mention the fact that the Geth gave the heretics a choice. When they realized that the heretics were planning to destroy everything, the Geth attempted to stop them. And besides, that relates to the current argument... how, exactly?

Modifié par Dethateer, 06 mars 2010 - 02:50 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Dethateer wrote...

Keywords: splinter faction. And that relates to the current argument... how, exactly?

Precisly. Almost the whole of the Quarian race belives that wiping out the Geth or enslaving them is the right thing to do. The Geth allowed a minor faction to side with the reapers, all the diference in the world.

[Noodlesoupninja]

Dethateer wrote...

Keywords: splinter faction. And that relates to the current argument... how, exactly?

It doesn't, I just have nothing good to say.