104 réponses à ce sujet

[Dethateer]

I think my brain just blew a fuse.

[Jonathan Shepard]

Side with the Geth. If you notice, the game hints hugely at that being the paragon response, which I lovelovelove.

[Noodlesoupninja]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

So you want to wipe out humanity too?  The Alliance refuses to believe the Reapers are real too.  And you would quite happily murder children too?  Children who have had nothing to do with the whole thing?

The alliance didn't decide to play God. The quarians did by creating the geth and then trying ( and still trying ) to wipe them out just for achieving sapience and defending themselves. The alliance isn't heading for war with one of the strongest allies I have against the reapers.

The alliance also doesn't speak for the majority of humanity. but most quarians do believe that they should either wipe out the geth, or enslave them again, even Tali does think like this. With only a small minority of people ( like Korris and Reager ) who think otherwise.

So no, I wouldn't feel anything bad about killing the entire quarian race.

Ok I'll try to answer this one more seriously. Where does it say that most of them want to wipe out all of them or enslave them. Only Xen wanted to enslave them and unless you talked to the 17 millions quarians I don't think you can say most of them do.

[DPSSOC]

I'd probably side with whoever didn't start the War.

[Must have name]

I'd side with the Quarians. The Geth are just machines at the end of the day.

But, to those saying the Quarians could comfortably defend any world?
-They may have a huge fleet, but it's still manned by civilians! We have no idea how the military capacity of the fleet compares to say the Human/Turian fleets.
-There's 17 million Quarians on the fleet. Granted this is a much higher population than the large Human Colony worlds (about 4 million iirc), it's still nowhere close to say the population of Earth. They could comfortably defend themselves against slavers, but a full blown war against another sovereign power? They'd have trouble defending a world against the Geth.
-The only reason they need such a big fleet is because they live on it. If they actually colonised somewhere, they'd likely disband much of those ships for salvage to help build actual homes quickly. That and they'd be focusing on adapting their immune systems.

On a serious note, why don't they colonise Virmire? Bar the fact there's one completely unihabitable part, the rest of it's fine, on the border between Council Space and the Terminus, and completely unwanted by the Council races because of this. Yet, 17 million Quarians is more than enough to defend a world against pirates, smugglers and slavers.

Modifié par Must have name, 06 mars 2010 - 03:05 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Ok I'll try to answer this one more seriously. Where does it say that most of them want to wipe out all of them or enslave them. Only Xen wanted to enslave them and unless you talked to the 17 millions quarians I don't think you can say most of them do.

Captain Danna says ( if you bring Legion with you to the fleet ) that there are a lot of militants these days. Han'Gerrel specifically states that they almost had the votes ( in the Conclave ) to unleash full scale war upon the Geth ( and thus wipe them out ). The HEAD of the Admiralty Board ( Tali's Father ) was in favor of enslaving the Geth. Shala says that the wind is blowing towards war with the Geth among the people.



The fact is most quarians, if not all save Korris and his minority ( and perhaps Shala as she does seem like a good person ) want the Geth wiped out, a few want them enslaved. The only reason a war has not started is that there are still many quarians with a brain to realize that they can't win a war with the Geth except with high casualties. Even Tali ( who knows damned well how dangerous the Reapers are ) is fanatical about retaking the Homeworld and killing geth.



If you give the evidence about Tali's father to the Admiralty Board then Tali will tell you after on the Normandy that the fleet is tearing itself apart, with many wanting to use Rael's research.



So yeah, I can't judge their entire species as I have not meet them all, but I can form an opinion based on the Quarians I have meet in game, and many of them where high ranking officials in the fleet.

[Dethateer]

Must have name wrote...

I'd side with the Quarians. The Geth are just machines at the end of the day.

So, sapient beings only have rights as long as they're made of meat? Here's a newsflash: we're machines too, the only diference is that we are made of cells instead of steel.

[Space Shot]

Geth

Advantages in data processing and the division of labor make them far more capable tactically and logistically. Additionally they have had centuries to progress and develop with the massive resources from the first war (supplanting an interstellar species has it's spoils) while the Quarians have been stagnating on ancient ships and what scraps they've come upon in the in the centuries following the destruction of their civilization.

However this is all moot. If Bioware wanted reasonable reactions to predictable factors they wouldn't have invented element zero. A war between the two will somehow end in a stalemate which is then leveraged by the arriving reapers to destroy both races regardless of what technological or social factors might be at work. A bit of a cop-out to a true conflict, sure, but it's an epic sci-fi story. What else can you expect?

Modifié par Space Shot, 06 mars 2010 - 04:25 .

[Varenus Luckmann]

The Quarians, of course.

I am an organic. Of course I'll join the organics. Who is right or who is wrong is completely irrelevant.

[Varenus Luckmann]

Must have name wrote...

[...]

On a serious note, why don't they colonise Virmire? Bar the fact there's one completely unihabitable part, the rest of it's fine, on the border between Council Space and the Terminus, and completely unwanted by the Council races because of this. Yet, 17 million Quarians is more than enough to defend a world against pirates, smugglers and slavers.

The choice of the Quarians not to colonize a world is a concious one. They lived in a symbiotic relationship with the flora and fauna of their original world (is that named, by the way? I can't believe we still haven't heard the name of the Quarian homeworld). Much of this symbiosis took the form of viruses or bacteria, so they basicly had "diseases" that were beneficial to them and a natural part of their immune system.

When they left their homeworld and wore suits, their already weak immune system (due to their immune system basicly treating bacteria and viruses as regular houseguests) completely crashed.

Odds are that they'd need decades to adapt to their own homeworld again, whilst any other planet would take centuries.

[Someguy101]

i would make them find peace with each other















but if i had to take a side it will be with the geth

[jonesj3599]

I saved the Queen beacuse I believe the Queen is telling the truth. The old Rachni NEVER attempted diplomacy even when faced with anniliation(ie. a fleet of ships bombarding your homeworld.) The first thing this Queen did was try diplomacy, that fact alone says she's completely different than the previous Rachni.

About Legion/Tali:
Speaking w/ Legion shows the Geth would not be adverse to letting the Quarians back in, they don't have emotions and don't hold grudges... especially 300 year old ones.

Yeah Legion could be lying, but why? Legion is running around the Organic part of the Galaxy to find support against the Reapers (What if he's lying you ask?) Well then my question would be: What possible other reason could he have? He's not equiped to do any covert reconnaissance (don't mind me i'm just an obvious geth checking out your guy's defense turrets, no biggie) so why else be there? He says that the Geth want to build a Dyson's Sphere and live peacefully mostly away from Organics. He says that they consider themselves caretakers for the Quarian worlds to be returned to them once they get the sphere made. This IS corroberated by reading the notes on at least one planet in Geth territory (can't remember which.) It states that Alliance military espionage drones report the Geth are not strip mining the planet... or even mining it at all. One can infer they're leaving the resources for the Quarian's return.

Consider there's also proof that the Geth do have a splinter group. Legion's loyalty mission proves that. The Geth know the Reapers are a threat, why else are there no synthetic lifeforms from previous extinction cycles? Because the Reapers annihilated them too. They know that and they know that they need the Organic's help to protect themselves. I think it would be pretty easy to convince the Geth to at least leave the Quarian Homeworld in exchange for a Non-Aggression pact w/ the Migrant Fleet (not to mention political clout w/ the Citidel for getting rid of the fleet as a drain on the Galaxy.) Legion himself says that that the Geth don't want to waste resources on a war.

Now to answer the OP's question: Id try to get them to come to an agreement. I think the Geth would be very open to negotiations based on Legion's actions. If that fails then it's most likely be because the Quarians can't get past their pretty irrational hatred of the Geth. So I'd side w/ the Geth in that case. Though I'd still do my best to keep the Quarians from being wiped out.

If for some reason the Geth are unwilling to compromise at all..... well then I'd side w/ the Quarians. It's not perfect I know, the Geth are the ones that got attacked first and all, but things have changed alot. The Geth don't need that world and keeping it would be a petty and unfair punishment of the Quarian's for a sin they're great great grandsires made.

About the Batarians, yeah I feel a little sorry for them, but they weren't ready to colonize those planets and the Humans were. Anyone can say "Oh man, those star systems WAYYY over there are ours but um it's going to take us a few hundred years to get around to them... but noone touch them ok!? Plus, even if they were right it's definatly no basis for enslaving people and attempting mass murder on multiple occasions, and doing it in a way that destroys garden worlds.... that's just stupid. Before you say crap like "Oh those are just splinter groups." Yeah a small splinter group could take over an entire asteroid and set up a wide ranged slave trade with no help from their government right?

[jonesj3599]

Must have name wrote...

[...]

On a serious note, why don't they colonise Virmire? Bar the fact there's one completely unihabitable part, the rest of it's fine, on the border between Council Space and the Terminus, and completely unwanted by the Council races because of this. Yet, 17 million Quarians is more than enough to defend a world against pirates, smugglers and slavers.

Also, the Quarian's have tried several times to colonize a safe planet. Anytime they do the Council always overrules their claim and then gives the world to a member species. (from several codex entries on planets) As far as colonizing somewhere in the Terminus Systems. 17 million Quarian's are not enough to defend an entire world from a concerted attack by pirates. Remember Reeger said the Quarians are not really cut out for full scale planetary warfare. If they colonized a Terminus system some pirate would organize another Skylian Blitz. Think of how many Quarian slaves they could grab w/ a few well timed and coordinated hit and runs?

[Brako Shepard]

I would help the Qaurians.

Not only because I think Tali is a groovy character, but because the Qaurians are similar to the rest of tissue based lifeforms, in that they always find something that the rest of life can benefit from.

Whilst Legion is a great character, I don't ever see the Geth helping out the galaxy. Sure they could keep to themselves, but at the end of the day they are just machines without any concerns for mortal life.

Plus the Geth could outnumber the Qaurians 100-1 in a matter of days by creating more. I would hate to not help the underdogs.

[Collider]

Side with Quarians. The Quarians will mourn their dead, whereas the Geth will feel next to nothing. But I'd like peace rather than war.

[V4nBl00d]

I'm sorry, but I've seen too many sci-fi movies to ever trust a computer, that I can't easily throw out the window. You can never estimate what they are doing, what goals they want to achieve and so on.

Although they have no emotions they understand emotions, which is btw. the definiton for psychopathy.

I recommend helping the quarians hack them and then letting them join the council to share responsability for this pretty powerful forces.



I know, Legion is awesome. But perhaps thats part of the geth's plan, so everybody likes him. Then, one day BAM! They got a fork in the eye (hope I quotet Moe right).



Now that I think of it: Legion wants to be awesome. Shepard=Awesome. Legion takes part of Shepard('s armor) -> Legion=Awesome

[DJBare]

V4nBl00d wrote...

I'm sorry, but I've seen too many sci-fi movies to ever trust a computer, that I can't easily throw out the window. You can never estimate what they are doing, what goals they want to achieve and so on.

You mean unpredictable like say.....humans?

As for the OPs question, I'd attempt a peace negotiation while remembering it's the quarians that started all the problems, the admiral got one thing right, the geth are the children of the quarians, that makes them irresponsible parents at this point, the fact that they panicked is a poor excuse, the geth are essentially rejected offspring.

[Phategod1]

It kind of foolish of the quarians when they Don't know how many Geth are in the Perseus veil. I just find it funny that they don't seek peace with the geth, what happened to them was there own fault the more I think about it I side with the geth.

[V4nBl00d]

DJBare wrote...

V4nBl00d wrote...

I'm sorry, but I've seen too many sci-fi movies to ever trust a computer, that I can't easily throw out the window. You can never estimate what they are doing, what goals they want to achieve and so on.

You mean unpredictable like say.....humans?

Humans are mostly predictable. In addition to our basic needs, all we want is being idividual, being better than the people we compare ourselves to and sensation. And chocolate, of course.
Nobody really knows what the geth really want, but I'm pretty sure it's not chocolate.

[DJBare]

V4nBl00d wrote...

Humans are mostly predictable. In addition to our basic needs, all we want is being idividual, being better than the people we compare ourselves to and sensation. And chocolate, of course.
Nobody really knows what the geth really want, but I'm pretty sure it's not chocolate.

They want the thing that first panicked the quarians, answers, what is my purpose, do I have a soul, the geth were originally meant as a labour force, without sentience this is not a problem, but now there is moral issue about putting a sentient being to work in dangerous and harsh conditions, and when it refuses because of something we take for granted(self preservation) what then?, the whole issue is that they are self aware and aware of their surroundings, but they are a chilld race with no one to guide them, that's why Soveriegn got control of them, he promised them answers.

[V4nBl00d]

DJBare wrote...

V4nBl00d wrote...

Humans are mostly predictable. In addition to our basic needs, all we want is being idividual, being better than the people we compare ourselves to and sensation. And chocolate, of course.
Nobody really knows what the geth really want, but I'm pretty sure it's not chocolate.

They want the thing that first panicked the quarians, answers, what is my purpose, do I have a soul, the geth were originally meant as a labour force, without sentience this is not a problem, but now there is moral issue about putting a sentient being to work in dangerous and harsh conditions, and when it refuses because of something we take for granted(self preservation) what then?, the whole issue is that they are self aware and aware of their surroundings, but they are a chilld race with no one to guide them, that's why Soveriegn got control of them, he promised them answers.

Even if the Geth are just misunderstood philosophers, they still have a massive lack in ethics and to me, they will never be real 'beings'.
Other species will always have to see them as a possible threat, so the geth will always have to see the other species as a possible threat.
But with enough information, the geth could use their superior intelligence to use tactics against us, we couldn't possibly understand, maibe we wouldn't even recognise it.
By the way, in most sci-fi movies/series machines finally come to the conclusion, that humans must be annihilated or enslaved.
So my opionion is still: Never trust a machine you can't throw out of the window. Otherwise, soon or later you'll have a fork in the eye.
So in my opinion the best would be helping the quarians hacking and using them. Seems like, for the geth, this procedure is pretty legitimate anyway (brainwashing/destroying heretics).

[JeffZero]

I love how similar the concept is to one of my favorite television series, Battlestar Galactica. It's so similar (and BioWare is so blatant in its mishmash of various sci-fi staples) that I was like 90% certain BSG was a huge influence on the quarians/geth angle before I saw the drop of a name for a quarian named 'Hala'Dama' (BSG's main character's name is Adama) and then it skyrocketed to 100%.

[Thompson family]

Forget psychology. The Geth have a large fleet and a lot of troops. The Quarians have the largest fleet in the Galaxy (although the overall quality of the ships is questionable.) Which is better: Those two fighting each other or both of them fighting the Reapers?



"Offer one hand and arm the other." You don't have to trust them, but you need them.