Guest_FaintlyAlarmed_*
Busomjack wrote...
That is not the only example. The Quarians on the flotilla using military salutes and the flotilla having english writing on the walls seems a bit far fetched
Really? I'll have to play through Tali's loyalty quest again... the writing I remember looked kind of Arabic to me.
Uh... No. English is from the Germanic family of languages, and was heavily corrupted when the Normans invaded in 1066, bringing their Norman French ass-kicking ways to the Anglo-Saxons and grinding them into the dirt. Normans, being lazy illiterate jerks, couldn't be bothered to learn the Saxon tongue and beat Norman French into their serfs. Their serfs, being stubborn little dirt clods, refused to learn Norman French and persisted in using the Saxon tongue and so they ended up created a broken version of Anglo-Saxon-French that somehow managed to communicate ideas to everyone. That worked so well that the English continued doing it everywhere they went. Instead of learning a new language or creating new words to describe a concept, English constantly incorporates words from other cultures and languages when they are available.Busomjack wrote...
Daewan wrote...
[a bunch of obnoxious brainy stuff]
The reason why we have words borrowed from French is because English and French are related having both descended from Latin.
Why in the Hell would the Quarian language share anything in common with English?
Guest_Darht Jayder_*
Perhaps they would. But good marines would send in Tali leading an assortment of Quarians. They would of course get massacred and then the Alliance marines would have something to duck behind and deal with the threat.......geez two uses for the Quarians. Not Bad.Jalem001 wrote...
Mox Ruuga wrote...
Darht Jayder wrote...
Quarians have practically become the galaxy's garbage collectors....perhaps there is a use for them afterall.
Lol, but don't you see the poor little victims have just been soooo misunderstood.
In ME2 Shepard interacts with quarians in the following manner:
- Saves Tali'Snorah three times
- Saves the remnants of Tali'Snorah's command twice
- Saves three different "victim" quarians on three "hub" worlds from various predicaments
- Walks all over the ruling body of their entire species in a legal spectacle, leaving them basically speechless before storming out with the "princess"
- Saves the remnants of the crew of a downed quarian scout ship
Notice a trend? Add to that the easy storming of the Alarei, which stymied "some of the best" of the quarian marines. It was a walk in the park compared to many of Shepard's missions.
A species whose "hat" is being a pitiful victim and general incompetence.
Everything is a walk in the park for Shepard! I stormed Eden Prime and single handedly handled the Geth. Every single marine on that planet including Ash and Jacob got their asses handed to them! This is why Shepard is so valuable.
Most marines would probably get destroyed boarding a ship, not sure of the threat, and suddenly finding themselves under fire while in a narrow hallway with no cover.
Busomjack wrote...
I would say that an alien using the term "HOORAH!" requires more suspension of disbelief than lip movements. Most of the time I don't even notice lip movements being in sync with the voices. "Hooarah!" coming from a Quarian is just absurd.
GenericPlayer2 wrote...
Jalem001 wrote...
Everything is a walk in the park for Shepard! I stormed Eden Prime and single handedly handled the Geth. Every single marine on that planet including Ash and Jacob got their asses handed to them! This is why Shepard is so valuable.
Most marines would probably get destroyed boarding a ship, not sure of the threat, and suddenly finding themselves under fire while in a narrow hallway with no cover.
You don't get it, its not about comparing it to Shep. The fight against the Geth carried on after Shep died and many of them were eliminated in council space - they don't even hear about pockets of resistance any more. Shep didn't do all of that. Your other team mates talk about their past missions and stuff, and you hear about how they got things done when Shep was not around. Now compare that to Tali and any Quarian you see.
Jalem001 wrote...
Everything is a walk in the park for Shepard! I stormed Eden Prime and single handedly handled the Geth. Every single marine on that planet including Ash and Jacob got their asses handed to them! This is why Shepard is so valuable.
Most marines would probably get destroyed boarding a ship, not sure of the threat, and suddenly finding themselves under fire while in a narrow hallway with no cover.
Mox Ruuga wrote...
Jalem001 wrote...
Everything is a walk in the park for Shepard! I stormed Eden Prime and single handedly handled the Geth. Every single marine on that planet including Ash and Jacob got their asses handed to them! This is why Shepard is so valuable.
Most marines would probably get destroyed boarding a ship, not sure of the threat, and suddenly finding themselves under fire while in a narrow hallway with no cover.
Nah. The situations aren't comparable. Eden Prime was a surprise attack from an unknown enemy the Alliance had never fought before. Add to that, the Reaper "buzzing" (ie. indoctrination) the colonists complain about.
Whereas the quarians tried to board a ship they knew was occupied by their hereditary enemies several times, using some of their best troops. Facing a ship held by 10 - 50 geth, most of whom were standard troopers. And failing.
I grant that Shepard basically walks over anyone, but the quarians are still the most pathetic species ever in a ground fight. I would bet on the volus or hanar before them... Kal'Reegar is the exception that proves the rule.
GenericPlayer2 wrote...
You're joking right? They are incredibly needy. In ME1 you have to save Tali Zorah from those thugs. In the second game you have to bail her out in the whole Veetor situation, then bail her out on Haelstrom, then bail her out at trial. Thats not even counting the Quarian kid on Omega, the Citadel theif, and the Ilium slave. In ME3, having the option to shoot some Quarians would be a welcome change.
Edit: OMG I forgot the bucket-head you save in Hades Nexus. You know, the one who didn't see her team being dragged off by the Varren!
Daewan wrote...
Uh... No. English is from the Germanic family of languages, and was heavily corrupted when the Normans invaded in 1066, bringing their Norman French ass-kicking ways to the Anglo-Saxons and grinding them into the dirt. Normans, being lazy illiterate jerks, couldn't be bothered to learn the Saxon tongue and beat Norman French into their serfs. Their serfs, being stubborn little dirt clods, refused to learn Norman French and persisted in using the Saxon tongue and so they ended up created a broken version of Anglo-Saxon-French that somehow managed to communicate ideas to everyone. That worked so well that the English continued doing it everywhere they went. Instead of learning a new language or creating new words to describe a concept, English constantly incorporates words from other cultures and languages when they are available.Busomjack wrote...
Daewan wrote...
[a bunch of obnoxious brainy stuff]
The reason why we have words borrowed from French is because English and French are related having both descended from Latin.
Why in the Hell would the Quarian language share anything in common with English?
The Quarian language doesn't have anything in common with English; what I was trying to point out that a culture as adaptive as the Quarians are would almost certainly have borrowed words, behaviors, phrases, etc. from other cultures. Why wouldn't a Quarian Marine seek to emulate an Alliance Marine? ME 1 introduced the fact that Turians are fascinated by the peculiar phrases of the Alliance (Lorik Qui'in and Lil on Noveria, for example) and Reegar, being a Marine and not a scientist like Tali, would and should have more in common with Marines than other Quarians do. Certainly, they could have made up a Turian exclamation for him to shout but considering that he was fighting alongside Commander Shepard of the Systems Alliance Navy, it was more appropriate for a fellow soldier to use the same cheers/swear words/encouraging interjections as the Alliance does.
Gah. This is now tl;dr.
Summary: People steal stuff from other cultures. Get over it.
Modifié par Busomjack, 02 mars 2010 - 09:26 .
Guest_Maviarab_*
Jalem001 wrote...
Only it is about Shepard because the direct comparison was between Shepard handling the Alerai and the Quarians handling it.
The Quarians have never had to handle a tiny fraction of the Geth with the full support of Council. The Quarians had to engage an entire Geth populace that was already highly integrated into society to the point that they were being used for security and war. Hunting down a broken, fractured, tiny portion of the Geth populace (Heretics) is not comparable to a desperate, winner takes all war for survival.
Jalem001 wrote...
They stormed a ship once and they did not know that it was filled with Geth. They explain this in the dialogue before you head off the Alerai. They sent a team of marines, got massacred, retreated, and then they decided it would be better for everyone if they just blew the ship up and moved on with their lives.
GenericPlayer2 wrote...
Jalem001 wrote...
Only it is about Shepard because the direct comparison was between Shepard handling the Alerai and the Quarians handling it.
The Quarians have never had to handle a tiny fraction of the Geth with the full support of Council. The Quarians had to engage an entire Geth populace that was already highly integrated into society to the point that they were being used for security and war. Hunting down a broken, fractured, tiny portion of the Geth populace (Heretics) is not comparable to a desperate, winner takes all war for survival.
The one thing the Quarians achieved as a race is defeat. And they continue to be defeated all the time. Does Tali even talk about a single past mission that ended in success? Of course you can argue that we know only what Shep sees and hears, and Shep is a demigod. But that does not disprove anything either. There is no reason for me to want their fleet in a fight against the reapers, the only thing they know how to do is lose. I only hope we can deliver the coup de gras in ME3
Mox Ruuga wrote...
Jalem001 wrote...
They stormed a ship once and they did not know that it was filled with Geth. They explain this in the dialogue before you head off the Alerai. They sent a team of marines, got massacred, retreated, and then they decided it would be better for everyone if they just blew the ship up and moved on with their lives.
Really?
I seem to remember that they sent in the marines after quarians who went investigating were attacked by the geth... And that "all attempts to reclaim it had failed" or words to effect, implying several attempts.
If they abandoned their people after a single attempt, and were ready to destroy the ship one of their five leaders was last seen aboard... Hell, they are even more pathetic than I thought. They themselves estimated that "10-50 geth aboard" figure. Can you tell me that the migrant fleet cannot muster a force that can budge a single enemy platoon from a fortified position? Geez...
FaintlyAlarmed wrote...
Busomjack wrote...
That is not the only example. The Quarians on the flotilla using military salutes and the flotilla having english writing on the walls seems a bit far fetched
Though maybe that's just on the windows in the corridor where you first arrive... I remember it because it really struck me as interesting at the time.
Noilly Prat wrote...
GenericPlayer2 wrote...
You're joking right? They are incredibly needy. In ME1 you have to save Tali Zorah from those thugs. In the second game you have to bail her out in the whole Veetor situation, then bail her out on Haelstrom, then bail her out at trial. Thats not even counting the Quarian kid on Omega, the Citadel theif, and the Ilium slave. In ME3, having the option to shoot some Quarians would be a welcome change.
Edit: OMG I forgot the bucket-head you save in Hades Nexus. You know, the one who didn't see her team being dragged off by the Varren!
You're joking, right? ME1 hardly gives any fair indication of quarian neediness, as Tali is literally the only quarian character in the game, and you just happen to have to rescue her (along with countless other characters throughout the game). And if we are generalizing that a whole species (which, according to the game lore, is one of the most self-sufficient in the galaxy) is needy simply because one important character needs your help at several points, we might as well call the galaxy needy because it always needs Shepard to save it.
As for helping out Tali in ME2, all I can say is that she's a squadmate, and you have to help out literally every single one of your squadmates in the game with some problem or another, even the ones you barely know. At least Tali and Shepard have some kind of preexisting relationship!
For the record, I don't take any of this forum arguing stuff seriously, so I hope nobody is taking what I say too seriously. I'm not interested in fighting about whether quarians are cool or not... I just couldn't resist making a few points.
Modifié par GenericPlayer2, 02 mars 2010 - 09:36 .
Busomjack wrote...
The guy was terrible as Kal"Reegar. Did the voice director tell Adam Baldwin that Kal"Reegar was supposed to be a US space marine? He even says "Hoorah!" which from what I understand is US military Jargon, why would a Quarian say it?
Anyways, Adam Baldwin was the worst voice actor in Mass Effect 2 and he is a blotch on an otherwise immaculate cast of talent.
GenericPlayer2 wrote...
Noilly Prat wrote...
GenericPlayer2 wrote...
You're joking right? They are incredibly needy. In ME1 you have to save Tali Zorah from those thugs. In the second game you have to bail her out in the whole Veetor situation, then bail her out on Haelstrom, then bail her out at trial. Thats not even counting the Quarian kid on Omega, the Citadel theif, and the Ilium slave. In ME3, having the option to shoot some Quarians would be a welcome change.
Edit: OMG I forgot the bucket-head you save in Hades Nexus. You know, the one who didn't see her team being dragged off by the Varren!
You're joking, right? ME1 hardly gives any fair indication of quarian neediness, as Tali is literally the only quarian character in the game, and you just happen to have to rescue her (along with countless other characters throughout the game). And if we are generalizing that a whole species (which, according to the game lore, is one of the most self-sufficient in the galaxy) is needy simply because one important character needs your help at several points, we might as well call the galaxy needy because it always needs Shepard to save it.
As for helping out Tali in ME2, all I can say is that she's a squadmate, and you have to help out literally every single one of your squadmates in the game with some problem or another, even the ones you barely know. At least Tali and Shepard have some kind of preexisting relationship!
For the record, I don't take any of this forum arguing stuff seriously, so I hope nobody is taking what I say too seriously. I'm not interested in fighting about whether quarians are cool or not... I just couldn't resist making a few points.
Miranda enjoyed success in the Lazarus Project. She saves you from the Mechs.
Mordin enjoyed success in his STG team project
Jacob thwarted some sort of plot on the Citadel - can't remember details since I rarely talk to him
Samara enjoyed success in hunting down criminals.
Thane was a successful assassin
Garrus had success in his own vigilante squad, though it falls apart due to treachery he still single handedly held them off for a long time. It takes a lot to make those guys so angry that they start working together and hiring free landers
Jack had a lot of success as a pycho killer
Grunt - well he is born on your ship, but he is a Krogan so that auto-exempts him from this comparison.
Legion - He has survived some pretty tough encounters since leaving the Veil, but works alone so I can understand that
Tali - accomplishes nothing without Shepard. Same could be said for other Quarians. Adam Baldwin/Kal
Reegar is the only one who puts himself on the line, once, maybe twice for Shepard (depending on your choices).
Noilly Prat wrote...
Reegar died in my first playthrough, because I mistakenly assumed he could take care of himself and decided to let him back me up with his rocket launcher. I guess he did still put himself on the line, but some good it did either of us. (My second playthrough I told him to lie down and leave it to the professionals, and the fight wasn't any harder, which leads me to suspect his aim isn't that great either.)
Yeah, Samara has been successful overall as a justicar, but spent hundreds of years trying to bag her daughter, who didn't really seem that hard to find or trap once Shepard was on board to help. Miranda has generally done well in Cerberus, but failed to keep her little sister safe without Shepard's intervention, and placed too much faith in her old friend despite her supposedly impeccable skills at reading people. Thane was a good assassin, but a lousy father. Tali gets help from Shepard on her pilgrimage, and ends up getting help on her missions in ME2 whether by coincidence or because Shepard is looking for her, but the game also makes it clear that she has done well for herself in the fleet since you last saw her (the thing with her father and the geth obviously goes wrong, but it's really nothing she can be blamed for).
The point is that all of the characters have had their successes and failures, so it isn't fair to selectively pick examples that support your case while ignoring the ones that don't. And as for the quarians' overall problems as a species... the krogan aren't doing very well, either, but they, like the quarians, are dealing with considerably tougher circumstances than probably any of the other major species in the series.
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