836 réponses à ce sujet

[The Angry One]

2kgnsiika wrote...

People, the main point here is not the statistical difference between men and women.

It's the fact that when you have two versions of the same person, and the other one clearly more muscle, they should be more effective at punching people, since they have the exact same skills.

The muscle difference is slight at best since you're again ignoring the distribution of muscle mass in genders and the point that they've trained to the exact same level.
The fact that ManShep has a broader chest does not automatically gain him a strength bonus.

[Dark_Caduceus]

You know what, you're right. Mod the game so that females do half damage with melee attacks and when you punch Zaeed he gets angry and beats your female ass.

[Vagula]

Men are stronger than woman. So what? Doesn't mean you can't be punched by a woman.

[2kgnsiika]

Sharn01 wrote...

Bruce Lee in his prime punched harder then Mike Tyson in his prime, not opinion, its a fact, they both had the force of their punches measured during their career's because they where so famous, there is roughly a hundred pound weight difference between them and Bruce still landed blow's with more force.

Now lets talk sci fi, in the first game Shepard male or female is a genetically enhanced super soldier, all alliance marines are. In ME2 Shepard has a ton of Cybernetic implant's, pay attention to some of the upgrades your Shepard get's, the bones and muscles are being replaced with more synthetic upgrades.

The problem with your analogy is that we're not comparing a female Bruce Lee to a male Mike Tyson. We're comparing two different versions of THE EXACT SAME PERSON WITH THE EXACT SAME SKILLS, the only difference being gender and size.

[Busomjack]

Sharn01 wrote...

Bruce Lee in his prime punched harder then Mike Tyson in his prime, not opinion, its a fact, they both had the force of their punches measured during their career's because they where so famous, there is roughly a hundred pound weight difference between them and Bruce still landed blow's with more force.

Now lets talk sci fi, in the first game Shepard male or female is a genetically enhanced super soldier, all alliance marines are. In ME2 Shepard has a ton of Cybernetic implant's, pay attention to some of the upgrades your Shepard get's, the bones and muscles are being replaced with more synthetic upgrades.

We're not talking about a boxer VS a martial arts champion.  We're talking about an alliance soldier compared to another alliance soldier with the only difference at all being gender.

There is nothing at all to suggest that female Shepard could possibly be stronger than her male cuonterpart.  She has had all the exact same training and upgrades.  Only difference is gender and gender does matter when it comes to strength.

[cutthecameras]

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

You know what, you're right. Mod the game so that females do half damage with melee attacks and when you punch Zaeed he gets angry and beats your female ass.

Yeah, that was totally what Bioware should have done in the first place.

[Mondo47]

I make chocolates and candies sometimes - would anyone like a homemade dark-chocolate cinder toffee? There's even a doily in the pic, too!

I think they're a bit nicer than waffles myself...

[The Angry One]

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

You know what, you're right. Mod the game so that females do half damage with melee attacks and when you punch Zaeed he gets angry and beats your female ass.

Zaeed is like, old, man. Old people are weaker than young people! Why is Zaeed a merc at all?
He should be like in a rocking chair smoking a pipe.

Same goes for Anderson. WTF an old man punching Udina, he should've shattered his wrist! 

[Zyrious]

The Angry One wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

That is not being sexist, I'm just stating that a person who has a natural advantage in strength being knocked out by a woman means he must be a wuss since he lost a fight despite having a natural advantage due to gender.

It would be like a human outswimming a dolphin.

That is sexist, because this "natural advantage" you speak of is not a universal rule and is easily overcome by any number of factors.
You stated that a man being knocked out by a woman, any woman, even a soldier, makes him a wuss.
You are sexist as all hell.

Not to defend him, but let's hold back on the bra burning here. These are not differences "Easy overcome" by a number of factors. Most women are weaker than most men. Trained women are frequently weaker than trained men. With equal time and training Men will come out on top. Women must work twice as hard to develope the same amount of muscle. Female Hormones do not offer the muscle-building boost of male hormones. Not even close. Women need a very strong diet and a tight workout schedule, men building muscle can eat at BBQ's and sit on the couch between workouts and get to the same level(exaggerated a little but i see it all the time..).

This is a genetic difference, a result of evolution. Men were the hunter-gathers, as much as certain movements would love to revise that bit of history. Men burn off more calories, men have a stronger upper body, men develope muscle faster and easier, have more densley packed muscle fibers and can fit twice as much muscle as a woman in the same amount of space. Obviously a highly trained woman could beat up a civilian man who doesnt work out. But all things equal besides genetics, then who comes out on top?

.
.
.
*is about to get shot by the first woman to read his post*
God bless modern progressive political correctness, eh....

*runs* *fast*

[The Angry One]

Busomjack wrote...

We're not talking about a boxer VS a martial arts champion.  We're talking about an alliance soldier compared to another alliance soldier with the only difference at all being gender.

We're talking about two soldiers who achieved the exact same max grade. Which means they are equally capable, regardless of how. End of bloody topic.

[Sharn01]

Then since female Shepard is doing the same job as MaleShepard and she is female, she is just that much more of a badass example of humanity and worked twice as hard as him to get there.



Tell this to yourself if it makes you feel better about the game, we have very little info on Shepard prior to ME1, so femShep worked twice as hard as maleShep, and you can stop complaining.

[yoshibb]

2kgnsiika wrote...

People, the main point here is not the statistical difference between men and women.

It's the fact that when you have two versions of the same person, and the other one clearly more muscle, they should be more effective at punching people, since they have the exact same skills.

And I'm not sure you understand the concept of fighting. If a man and a woman delivered a quick decisive blow to a certain point in the body to two separate people, both people would be dead. I'm not sure how it would matter at that point.

I don't need strength to take someone down, therefore it's a completely pointless argument to say that someone has a stronger attack. 

[Daveastation]

Pancakes should taste better than Waffles, but even if they are genetically enhanced, they still both taste awesome. What gives? Let's discuss this perpelexing paradox for five more pages.

[Busomjack]

The Angry One wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

We're not talking about a boxer VS a martial arts champion.  We're talking about an alliance soldier compared to another alliance soldier with the only difference at all being gender.

We're talking about two soldiers who achieved the exact same max grade. Which means they are equally capable, regardless of how. End of bloody topic.

But they're not exactly the same.  One is male and the other is female and to say gender is irrelevent ignores human physiology.

[Dark_Caduceus]

The Angry One wrote...

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

You know what, you're right. Mod the game so that females do half damage with melee attacks and when you punch Zaeed he gets angry and beats your female ass.

Zaeed is like, old, man. Old people are weaker than young people! Why is Zaeed a merc at all?
He should be like in a rocking chair smoking a pipe.

Same goes for Anderson. WTF an old man punching Udina, he should've shattered his wrist! 

I was being sarcastic.

[The Angry One]

Zyrious wrote...

Not to defend him, but let's hold back on the bra burning here. These are not differences "Easy overcome" by a number of factors. Most women are weaker than most men. Trained women are frequently weaker than trained men. With equal time and training Men will come out on top. Women must work twice as hard to develope the same amount of muscle. Female Hormones do not offer the muscle-building boost of male hormones. Not even close. Women need a very strong diet and a tight workout schedule, men building muscle can eat at BBQ's and sit on the couch between workouts and get to the same level(exaggerated a little but i see it all the time..).

This is a genetic difference, a result of evolution. Men were the hunter-gathers, as much as certain movements would love to revise that bit of history. Men burn off more calories, men have a stronger upper body, men develope muscle faster and easier, have more densley packed muscle fibers and can fit twice as much muscle as a woman in the same amount of space. Obviously a highly trained woman could beat up a civilian man who doesnt work out. But all things equal besides genetics, then who comes out on top?

.
.
.
*is about to get shot by the first woman to read his post*
God bless modern progressive political correctness, eh....

*runs* *fast*

Another who assumes muscle mass rules all. Your argument belies the fact that trained women do in fact stand equal with trained men. It's not political correctness, it's simple fact.

[2kgnsiika]

The Angry One wrote...

2kgnsiika wrote...

People, the main point here is not the statistical difference between men and women.

It's the fact that when you have two versions of the same person, and the other one clearly more muscle, they should be more effective at punching people, since they have the exact same skills.

The muscle difference is slight at best since you're again ignoring the distribution of muscle mass in genders and the point that they've trained to the exact same level.
The fact that ManShep has a broader chest does not automatically gain him a strength bonus.

How am I ignoring the distibution of muscle mass in genders? Where do women have more muscle mass than men?

[cutthecameras]

Mondo47 wrote...




I make chocolates and candies sometimes - would anyone like a homemade dark-chocolate cinder toffee? There's even a doily in the pic, too!

I think they're a bit nicer than waffles myself...

They look delicious! I'd love to try my hand at something like this : O

[Collider]

Daveastation wrote...

Pancakes should taste better than Waffles, but even if they are genetically enhanced, they still both taste awesome. What gives? Let's discuss this perpelexing paradox for five more pages.

I'm afraid you've opened a can of worms my friend. The implications of genetically engineering pancakes is troubling. Who are we to play God in breakfast foods?

[The Angry One]

Busomjack wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

We're not talking about a boxer VS a martial arts champion.  We're talking about an alliance soldier compared to another alliance soldier with the only difference at all being gender.

We're talking about two soldiers who achieved the exact same max grade. Which means they are equally capable, regardless of how. End of bloody topic.

But they're not exactly the same.  One is male and the other is female and to say gender is irrelevent ignores human physiology.

Who says they're exactly the same, the fact is they achieved the same level.
If you must insist in your own mind that FemShep had to work more to do so, go ahead. But quit arguing it isn't possible.

[Akka le Vil]

Llandaryn wrote...

Huh. As a martial artist, I would have to disagree with you. It;s all about application of force.

You gotta admit that the hits in the game look more like Hollywood Punching than a real technical punch

Also during the renegade interrogation scene, do you really think it
would be possible for a female Shepard to cause a man to bruise so
easily?

Shepard wears a combat armor, with a metal gauntlet. You really DON'T need to punch hard to make someone bruise with that

Lightice_av wrote...

While the women can't reach the same
upper limits of strength as men, a woman's punch can break your bones as
good as man's, if she has any idea what she's doing. All female
soldiers most definately know.

Actually, you don't break bones by punching, except maybe the ribs and perhaps the jaw, even as a man. Unless you're really a very powerful guy, and/or your target is a VERY frail person. And even then it's dubious.


Now, the point of the OP is somewhat valid, in that female Shepard doesn't look very muscular, and the people she punches ARE (and are usually quite well combat trained themselves). And in all honesty, even with a muscular human and a metal gun, it seems ridiculous to be able to punch a Krogan and make it recoil - it should barely notice it.
But in the end it boils down to a minor point in game mechanics. I would have liked a more realistic approach (making the damage very dependant on the species you mélée, making the damage from male Shepard higher) but that's just because I like near-useless details, and I really don't care that it's not the case. I don't expect Bioware to bother with making two different punching scenes based on gender
(though it could be fun to see femShep kicking and maleShep punching, but that would be more of an easter egg than anything )

The Angry One wrote...

And the fact that pure muscle mass
alone gets you nothing, it may be easier for a man to brute force than a
woman but with the proper training it is in fact about equal.

The OP is probably a troll, but you should not try to counter his trolling by saying nonsense

The Angry One wrote...

The muscle difference is slight at best since you're again ignoring the distribution of muscle mass in genders and the point that they've trained to the exact same level.
The fact that ManShep has a broader chest does not automatically gain him a strength
bonus.

Actually, again without endorsing the trolling, but you say nonsense to counter him.
In fact, if you take into account the distribution of muscle mass in genders, female have a distinct disadvantage over men when it comes to punch, as they have theirs more oriented toward the lower body than the upper body.

Modifié par Akka le Vil, 02 mars 2010 - 10:54 .

[Forsakerr]

Mondo47 wrote...




I make chocolates and candies sometimes - would anyone like a homemade dark-chocolate cinder toffee? There's even a doily in the pic, too!

I think they're a bit nicer than waffles myself...

ohh that looks delicious , sometimes i get sugar rages ,like i dont eat sugar stuff for like months then one day i buy/make stuff that have sugar in it

[cutthecameras]

Darht Jayder wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

2kgnsiika wrote...

People, the main point here is not the statistical difference between men and women.

It's the fact that when you have two versions of the same person, and the other one clearly more muscle, they should be more effective at punching people, since they have the exact same skills.

The muscle difference is slight at best since you're again ignoring the distribution of muscle mass in genders and the point that they've trained to the exact same level.
The fact that ManShep has a broader chest does not automatically gain him a strength bonus.

Besides which there is so much more that factors into the mechanics of a punch than muscle distribution, mass and gender.

It's called physics.  Force, leverage, speed, acceleration, angle, point of contact, surface area.

Women are capable of surpassing men in all these things.  You can't generalize based on gender.

I'm willing to bet that the difference in force between the punch of a well trained woman and a well trained man would be inpercetable to the sad, knocked out fool on the ground that dared to question it in the first place.

[Busomjack]

The Angry One wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

We're not talking about a boxer VS a martial arts champion.  We're talking about an alliance soldier compared to another alliance soldier with the only difference at all being gender.

We're talking about two soldiers who achieved the exact same max grade. Which means they are equally capable, regardless of how. End of bloody topic.

But they're not exactly the same.  One is male and the other is female and to say gender is irrelevent ignores human physiology.

Who says they're exactly the same, the fact is they achieved the same level.
If you must insist in your own mind that FemShep had to work more to do so, go ahead. But quit arguing it isn't possible.

Just bceause they achieved the same rank doesn't mean they're equal in capabilities.  It's not like every admiral is just as skilled as the next.