836 réponses à ce sujet

[DiscipleofUranus]

Official Answer :

Maleshep has reach, Femshep has flexibility

[Lightice_av]

Actually, you don't break

bones by punching, except maybe the ribs and perhaps the jaw, even as a man. Unless you're really a very powerful guy, and/or your target is a VERY frail person. And even then it's dubious.

As you said yourself, ribs, jaw, and lets not forget the nose. Those are all bones that can be broken by punching, and both men and women can do that quite well.

[Zyrious]

The Angry One wrote...

Zyrious wrote...

Not to defend him, but let's hold back on the bra burning here. These are not differences "Easy overcome" by a number of factors. Most women are weaker than most men. Trained women are frequently weaker than trained men. With equal time and training Men will come out on top. Women must work twice as hard to develope the same amount of muscle. Female Hormones do not offer the muscle-building boost of male hormones. Not even close. Women need a very strong diet and a tight workout schedule, men building muscle can eat at BBQ's and sit on the couch between workouts and get to the same level(exaggerated a little but i see it all the time..).

This is a genetic difference, a result of evolution. Men were the hunter-gathers, as much as certain movements would love to revise that bit of history. Men burn off more calories, men have a stronger upper body, men develope muscle faster and easier, have more densley packed muscle fibers and can fit twice as much muscle as a woman in the same amount of space. Obviously a highly trained woman could beat up a civilian man who doesnt work out. But all things equal besides genetics, then who comes out on top?

.
.
.
*is about to get shot by the first woman to read his post*
God bless modern progressive political correctness, eh....

*runs* *fast*

Another who assumes muscle mass rules all. Your argument belies the fact that trained women do in fact stand equal with trained men. It's not political correctness, it's simple fact.

Fact where? You're TAUGHT in basic highschool health class that women need to work twice as hard to develope the same amount of muscle. In the modern miltiary, most women are given LESS rigourous training than men. In Basic training, women require LESS pullups, situps, and pushups in order to pass. It is quite literally backwards but was established in order to appease the political correctness crowd.

If femshep has the same exact training as maleshep, she is weaker than maleshep. But i'm not arguing that her punches wouldn't hurt. I'm just saying dont try and pretend she'd be just as strong as maleshep. All training and experiences being equal, femshep would be physically weaker than maleshep. But that doesnt mean she isnt capable of kicking ass. She just can't do everything maleshep can do. That's fact, the rest is political correctness jargon.

[7th_Phoenix]

OMG. Cyborg or not... male or female... I think we're all capable of producing the same amount of force. Punch, kick, headbutt, whatever. A woman can exert the same strength as a man but the OP is much too stubborn to accept that. And to add to the fact, he wants the game to express less hit points when a FemShep enters melee combat is all the more startling.



...There is no end, the bridge has collapsed and he has no home. :|

[The Angry One]

Akka le Vil wrote...

Actually, again without endorsing the trolling, but you say nonsense to counter him.
In fact, if you take into account the distribution of muscle mass in genders, female have a distinct disadvantage over men when it comes to punch, as they have theirs more oriented toward the lower body than the upper body.

Since I'm not talking about baseline humans here, this point is irrelevant.
As a soldier and marine FemShep would've trained her upper body strength to compete with her male counterparts. Males are still going to have more upper body muscle mass than females, but through proper training and technique this gap becomes so small as to be irrelevant unless the male has excessively more weight and mass which isn't the case here.

[cutthecameras]

I don't understand OP. Are you suggesting that fem Shepard got to N7 rank and she can't knock out anyone she damn well pleases to?

Please! That's ridiculous. If you must tell yourself she's weaker than male Shepard then do so, but to say that her punches wouldn't hurt a dude is just insulting. She's not a housewife idiot, she's a soldier.

Modifié par cutthecameras, 02 mars 2010 - 10:57 .

[2kgnsiika]

Akka le Vil wrote...

Llandaryn wrote...

Huh. As a martial artist, I would have to disagree with you. It;s all about application of force.

You gotta admit that the hits in the game look more like Hollywood Punching than a real technical punch

Also during the renegade interrogation scene, do you really think it
would be possible for a female Shepard to cause a man to bruise so
easily?

Shepard wears a combat armor, with a metal gauntlet. You really DON'T need to punch hard to make someone bruise with that

Lightice_av wrote...

While the women can't reach the same
upper limits of strength as men, a woman's punch can break your bones as
good as man's, if she has any idea what she's doing. All female
soldiers most definately know.

Actually, you don't break bones by punching, except maybe the ribs and perhaps the jaw, even as a man. Unless you're really a very powerful guy, and/or your target is a VERY frail person. And even then it's dubious.


Now, the point of the OP is somewhat valid, in that female Shepard doesn't look very muscular, and the people she punches ARE (and are usually quite well combat trained themselves). And in all honesty, even with a muscular human and a metal gun, it seems ridiculous to be able to punch a Krogan and make it recoil - it should barely notice it.
But in the end it boils down to a minor point in game mechanics. I would have liked a more realistic approach (making the damage very dependant on the species you mélée, making the damage from male Shepard higher) but that's just because I like near-useless details, and I really don't care that it's not the case. I don't expect Bioware to bother with making two different punching scenes based on gender
(though it could be fun to see femShep kicking and maleShep punching, but that would be more of an easter egg than anything )

The Angry One wrote...

And the fact that pure muscle mass
alone gets you nothing, it may be easier for a man to brute force than a
woman but with the proper training it is in fact about equal.

The OP is probably a troll, but you should not try to counter his trolling by saying nonsense

The Angry One wrote...

The muscle difference is slight at best since you're again ignoring the distribution of muscle mass in genders and the point that they've trained to the exact same level.
The fact that ManShep has a broader chest does not automatically gain him a strength
bonus.

Actually, again without endorsing the trolling, but you say nonsense to counter him.
In fact, if you take into account the distribution of muscle mass in genders, female have a distinct disadvantage over men when it comes to punch, as they have theirs more oriented toward the lower body than the upper body.

Thank you for a balanced and neutral post. You're correct about the fact that this is a minor point at best. But it is valid point no less.

Also, who cares whether busomjack is a troll or not? His argument is still valid.

It's sad to see people ignoring the facts and instead posting irrelevant pictures when see something they don't like.

Modifié par 2kgnsiika, 02 mars 2010 - 10:59 .

[Busomjack]

Zyrious wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Zyrious wrote...

Not to defend him, but let's hold back on the bra burning here. These are not differences "Easy overcome" by a number of factors. Most women are weaker than most men. Trained women are frequently weaker than trained men. With equal time and training Men will come out on top. Women must work twice as hard to develope the same amount of muscle. Female Hormones do not offer the muscle-building boost of male hormones. Not even close. Women need a very strong diet and a tight workout schedule, men building muscle can eat at BBQ's and sit on the couch between workouts and get to the same level(exaggerated a little but i see it all the time..).

This is a genetic difference, a result of evolution. Men were the hunter-gathers, as much as certain movements would love to revise that bit of history. Men burn off more calories, men have a stronger upper body, men develope muscle faster and easier, have more densley packed muscle fibers and can fit twice as much muscle as a woman in the same amount of space. Obviously a highly trained woman could beat up a civilian man who doesnt work out. But all things equal besides genetics, then who comes out on top?

.
.
.
*is about to get shot by the first woman to read his post*
God bless modern progressive political correctness, eh....

*runs* *fast*

Another who assumes muscle mass rules all. Your argument belies the fact that trained women do in fact stand equal with trained men. It's not political correctness, it's simple fact.

Fact where? You're TAUGHT in basic highschool health class that women need to work twice as hard to develope the same amount of muscle. In the modern miltiary, most women are given LESS rigourous training than men. In Basic training, women require LESS pullups, situps, and pushups in order to pass. It is quite literally backwards but was established in order to appease the political correctness crowd.

If femshep has the same exact training as maleshep, she is weaker than maleshep. But i'm not arguing that her punches wouldn't hurt. I'm just saying dont try and pretend she'd be just as strong as maleshep. All training and experiences being equal, femshep would be physically weaker than maleshep. But that doesnt mean she isnt capable of kicking ass. She just can't do everything maleshep can do. That's fact, the rest is political correctness jargon.

I think we're finally reaching a consensus.  I think Bioware should reduce female Shepard's melee attack damage in the next patch.

[Peer of the Empire]

I agree with OP.

You nerds need to grow some muscle and get out of the house

[mycroft77]

She's a freaking cyborg.



STOP FEEDING THE TROLL.

[shinobi602]

Lolz, I saw this "debate" coming from a mile away. Sorry everyone, but there's no denying it, facts are facts, science is science. I have nothing against women, I love my fiancee and all the other women in my life, but it's just biology, a woman is not physically as strong as a man. This is not politics, it's not sexism, it's biology.

[Akka le Vil]

Lightice_av wrote...

As you said yourself, ribs, jaw, and lets not forget the nose. Those are all bones that can be broken by punching, and both men and women can do that quite well.

The nose isn't a bone, it's cartilage, which is why I didn't speak about it ^^

[Lightice_av]

If femshep has the same exact training as maleshep, she is weaker than maleshep. But i'm not arguing that her punches wouldn't hurt. I'm just saying dont try and pretend she'd be just as strong as maleshep. All training and experiences being equal, femshep would be physically weaker than maleshep. But that doesnt mean she isnt capable of kicking ass. She just can't do everything maleshep can do. That's fact, the rest is political correctness jargon.

Ultimately she may not be able to lift as much as a man, or do any similar static feat of strength (pulling, pushing, lifting, throwing...), but when it comes to combat, technique goes over passive strength, and after you've passed certain limit, strength does only so much difference. When your nose is punched in, it doesn't matter if it was done by a few more psi than it did.

The nose isn't a bone, it's cartilage, which is why I didn't speak about it ^^

There is a bone on top of the nose. It can be broken by punching.  Cheekbones too, now that I remember.

Modifié par Lightice_av, 02 mars 2010 - 10:59 .

[The Angry One]

Zyrious wrote...

Fact where? You're TAUGHT in basic highschool health class that women need to work twice as hard to develope the same amount of muscle. In the modern miltiary, most women are given LESS rigourous training than men. In Basic training, women require LESS pullups, situps, and pushups in order to pass. It is quite literally backwards but was established in order to appease the political correctness crowd.

And yet still the military produces women who can be every bit as capable as the men.

If femshep has the same exact training as maleshep, she is weaker than maleshep. But i'm not arguing that her punches wouldn't hurt. I'm just saying dont try and pretend she'd be just as strong as maleshep. All training and experiences being equal, femshep would be physically weaker than maleshep. But that doesnt mean she isnt capable of kicking ass. She just can't do everything maleshep can do. That's fact, the rest is political correctness jargon.

This assumes that females won't push themselves extra to be equal in those levels of training, and that the gene therapies won't even things out further.
Getting to N7 isn't a walk in the park, it must be gruesome. Both genders achieve this, the hows and whys are irrelevant.

[WillieStyle]

Sharn01 wrote...

Bruce Lee in his prime punched harder then Mike Tyson in his prime, not opinion, its a fact, they both had the force of their punches measured during their career's because they where so famous, there is roughly a hundred pound weight difference between them and Bruce still landed blow's with more force.

I love how people on the internet just casually pull "facts" out of their posteriors.  Anyone who knows the slightest thing about professional boxing and/or martial arts would realize this is complete and total nonsense.

The idea that someone roughly the size of Manny Pakiao would punch as hard as a World class professional heavy wieght boxer in his prime is simply idiotic.

[Kressida]

Please! That's ridiculous. If you must tell yourself she's weaker than male Shepard then do so, but to say that her punches wouldn't hurt a dude is just insulting. She's not a housewife idiot, she's a soldier.

Girls can't be soldiers! They get periods and stuff!! OMG! The vagina is such a handicap and breasts clearly get in the way of holding a gun and punching someone in the face!!




/facepalm

[Busomjack]

mycroft77 wrote...

She's a freaking cyborg.

STOP FEEDING THE TROLL.

Male Shepard is a cyborg too, what is your point?

[7th_Phoenix]

cutthecameras wrote...

I don't understand OP. Are you suggesting that fem Shepard got to N7 rank and she can't knock out anyone she damn well pleases to?

Please! That's ridiculous. If you must tell yourself she's weaker than male Shepard then do so, but to say that her punches wouldn't hurt a dude is just insulting. She's not a housewife idiot, she's a soldier.

For real.

[yoshibb]

My God, why is it so hard to understand that delivering a devastating blow has nothing to do with strength?

[The Angry One]

You know there are some guys in this thread who would get their asses kicked so hard by a woman.

[7th_Phoenix]

Busomjack wrote...

mycroft77 wrote...

She's a freaking cyborg.

STOP FEEDING THE TROLL.

Male Shepard is a cyborg too, what is your point?

The point is they may share the same amount of strength.

[Busomjack]

Darht Jayder wrote...

shinobi602 wrote...

Lolz, I saw this "debate" coming from a mile away. Sorry everyone, but there's no denying it, facts are facts, science is science. I have nothing against women, I love my fiancee and all the other women in my life, but it's just biology, a woman is not physically as strong as a man. This is not politics, it's not sexism, it's biology.

But they are still capable of punching as strong.

I'm not saying her punches shouldn't hurt at all but her punches shouldn't have the same impact as a male Shepard's punches.  That is why I promoted the idea of a compromise and having female Shepard kick Zaeed in the balls instead.

[applehug]

Actually to pass basic training she does have to be equal to her comrades.