836 réponses à ce sujet

[Lightice_av]

That is why I promoted the idea of a compromise and having female Shepard kick Zaeed in the balls instead.

Why? You actually imagine a woman can't knock you out with her fists? I really hope you'll put that to the test one day.

[DraksisBG]

And this thread continued on for six pages?



Fine, I'll recap.



I have a black belt in Taekwon-Do. That doesn't make me the strongest person on Earth, sure, but I had my fair share of wins in tournaments and training in the gym, so that makes me capable.



Being one of the best fighters in my club, I can clearly state that I've known females that can practically twist your head with a punch. And Taekwon-Do is based on kick techniques, not fists, mind you. They weren't Rambo's or terminators, most were in fact so slim that they looked like twigs.



So what happens? It all comes down to basic training. If a woman of our age and generation can learn how to punch somebody with the strength of a raging bull, then I can't even dare imagine a space marine that undertook gene therapy.



Lock, del, ban?



Kidding for the last part, but still.

[Busomjack]

7th_Phoenix wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

mycroft77 wrote...

She's a freaking cyborg.

STOP FEEDING THE TROLL.

Male Shepard is a cyborg too, what is your point?

The point is they may share the same amount of strength.

So you're saying that some cybernetic implants somehow nullify the strength differences between genders?  That doesn't make any sense.  

[The Angry One]

Busomjack wrote...

I'm not saying her punches shouldn't hurt at all but her punches shouldn't have the same impact as a male Shepard's punches.  That is why I promoted the idea of a compromise and having female Shepard kick Zaeed in the balls instead.

I add a further compromise, Zaeed has to attack people with his cane and has a 70% chance of getting a heart attack in any battle.

[Marilynn-22]

DiscipleofUranus wrote...

Official Answer :

Maleshep has reach, Femshep has flexibility

[DiscipleofUranus]

How about this little idea:



It's Biowares game and Universe, they wanted Femshep to be as strong and powerful as Maleshep despite the size difference. So they made it that way, their game, their rules. End of Story!

[Busomjack]

Lightice_av wrote...

That is why I promoted the idea of a compromise and having female Shepard kick Zaeed in the balls instead.

Why? You actually imagine a woman can't knock you out with her fists? I really hope you'll put that to the test one day.

Why do you hope I put that to the test?  You support violence against women?  I would never even considering hurting a woman.

[shinobi602]

Darht Jayder wrote...

But they are still capable of punching as strong.

Sure. Maybe not all of them, but I'm not denying that a punch from anyone would still hurt lol.

[insochris]

Daveastation wrote...

Pancakes should taste better than Waffles, but even if they are genetically enhanced, they still both taste awesome. What gives? Let's discuss this perpelexing paradox for five more pages.

but the deliciousness molecules are more densely distributed in the waffles, especially in the syrup filled holes (first person to make a sexual joke out of this gets punched. by The Angry One). this is evidanced by the solid structure of the square walls. however, in the pancake, the form is more manipulatable, meaning a lesser concentration of deliciousness molecules. maple syrup does move these molecules closer together, but overall, the waffle will always be more delicious.

...

you know what? i honestly have no idea where this is going. but it was fun to try.

[The Angry One]

Busomjack wrote...

Why do you hope I put that to the test?  You support violence against women?  I would never even considering hurting a woman.

And this too is sexist.
I deplore violence against anyone.

[yoshibb]

The Angry One wrote...

You know there are some guys in this thread who would get their asses kicked so hard by a woman.

I'd be willing to demonstrate, but since most of blows are aimed to kill or severally disable (since in a life or death fight that's what's necessary) it probably wouldn't be a good idea.

[cutthecameras]

The Angry One wrote...

You know there are some guys in this thread who would get their asses kicked so hard by a woman.

Yeah, but he's trying to argue that a well trained woman and a well trained man are two different things. And that if you pit them against a strong bad ass dude, the well trained man would knock him out, while the well trained women would cause the bad ass dude to laugh heartily.

Please. <_<

[Lightice_av]

Why do you hope I put that to the test? You support violence against women? I would never even considering hurting a woman.

Tell that to a soldier lady at a bar some day. Like I said, one my my martial arts instructors was a woman, and she could kick your ass any day. Ofcourse you wouldn't have the gut to even spar with her in fear of your masculinity, I'd imagine.

[applehug]

Busomjack wrote...

7th_Phoenix wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

mycroft77 wrote...

She's a freaking cyborg.

STOP FEEDING THE TROLL.

Male Shepard is a cyborg too, what is your point?

The point is they may share the same amount of strength.

So you're saying that some cybernetic implants somehow nullify the strength differences between genders?  That doesn't make any sense.  

She has to be fit enough to pass basic training. I would imagine that would make her in equal strenth to maleshep.

[DiscipleofUranus]

The Angry One wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

Why do you hope I put that to the test?  You support violence against women?  I would never even considering hurting a woman.

And this too is sexist.
I deplore violence against anyone.

The fact that you would hit a man but not a women, is in itself sexist. Im with The Angry One of this ...

You man-hater you! *shakes fist*

[Zyrious]

The Angry One wrote...

Zyrious wrote...

Fact where? You're TAUGHT in basic highschool health class that women need to work twice as hard to develope the same amount of muscle. In the modern miltiary, most women are given LESS rigourous training than men. In Basic training, women require LESS pullups, situps, and pushups in order to pass. It is quite literally backwards but was established in order to appease the political correctness crowd.

And yet still the military produces women who can be every bit as capable as the men.

If femshep has the same exact training as maleshep, she is weaker than maleshep. But i'm not arguing that her punches wouldn't hurt. I'm just saying dont try and pretend she'd be just as strong as maleshep. All training and experiences being equal, femshep would be physically weaker than maleshep. But that doesnt mean she isnt capable of kicking ass. She just can't do everything maleshep can do. That's fact, the rest is political correctness jargon.

This assumes that females won't push themselves extra to be equal in those levels of training, and that the gene therapies won't even things out further.
Getting to N7 isn't a walk in the park, it must be gruesome. Both genders achieve this, the hows and whys are irrelevant.

Seeing as how the genetic therapy didnt make Fem-shep a man-shep, i don't think so. Before therapy, we assume their training is identical. So far, man shep is stronger than femshep. Through gene-therapy, their base strength is increased by, let's say 20%. Since Femshep's base strength is weaker than Manshep's, then femshep will remain weaker than manshep.

As far as women being "Every bit as capable as men", in some area's perhaps, in other area's...there is a reason the military bars all women from combat oriented positions in the United States. As far as "Pushing themselves extra", we're assuming femshep and manshep have an identical history, and that femshep wasnt doing an extra 100 pushups every day while manshep was eating hamburgers at the state fair.

[Busomjack]

applehug wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

7th_Phoenix wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

mycroft77 wrote...

She's a freaking cyborg.

STOP FEEDING THE TROLL.

Male Shepard is a cyborg too, what is your point?

The point is they may share the same amount of strength.

So you're saying that some cybernetic implants somehow nullify the strength differences between genders?  That doesn't make any sense.  

She has to be fit enough to pass basic training. I would imagine that would make her in equal strenth to maleshep.

I don't see the logic in that.  Not everyone who graduates high school makes the honor roll.  Like it was stated earlier, the testing standards for women in the military are deliberately lower than for men.

[FredThePhoenix]

- Training

- Technique

- Armour

- Gene therapy



MaleShepard has more weight and muscles than FemShep. MaleShep would of course be physically stronger when it comes to melee people with say, a punch. The fact that both are equal is just for game purposes. I agree that some scenes should have been different with MaleShep and FemShep.



Some scenes feel out of place with FemShep. Males are physically stronger than females. Nothing sexist about it. It's just a biological fact. But I'm very happy to have the option to play as a FemShep and it's nice that they are equals for game engines.

[WillieStyle]

yoshibb wrote...

My God, why is it so hard to understand that delivering a devastating blow has nothing to do with strength?

It's so hard to understand because it isn't true.
God I feel dirty.
I hate trolls.
I think Fem Shep should be just as strong and as effective as Male Shep. 
Cybernetics + Gene Therapy = No more Sexual Dimorphism.

But I am also a huge boxing fan.  Seeing people spout nonsense like this just hurts my brain.
Roy Jones Junior was one of the greatest boxers of all time.  He moved up ~20 lbs in weight class and got his ass handed to him because he wasn't strong enough.
Strength matters for punching... a lot.

[Akka le Vil]

Lightice_av wrote...

Ultimately she may not be able to lift as much as a man, or do any similar static feat of strength (pulling, pushing, lifting, throwing...), but when it comes to combat, technique goes over passive strength, and after you've passed certain limit, strength does only so much difference. When your nose is punched in, it doesn't matter if it was done by a few more psi than it did.

Though I agree that technique is extremely efficient, I'd like to point that people tend to significantly underestimate raw strength. Usually because people compare a very trained, quite atheletic combattant to an untrained very muscular opponent.
A very trained, unfit person against a trained strong person is a completely different situation ^^

Technique will win against pure strength if it's of a high enough level. But a slightly superior technique + some amount of strength will have a lot of hard time against a slightly inferior technique + a significant difference in strength.

An analogy I like is the concept of leverage. Technique is leverage. It allows you to multiply the effect of your strength. But don't forget that X times Y means that both X and Y count, not just X

There is a bone on top of the nose. It can be broken by punching.  Cheekbones too, now that I remember.

Usually cheekbones aren't broken by punches, they are broken because someone is slammed to the ground then kicked. The usual injury on the cheekbones level is the skin that explode under the impact.

[Lightice_av]

As far as women being "Every bit as capable as men", in some area's perhaps, in other area's...there is a reason the military bars all women from combat oriented positions in the United States.

In the United States. Not in any other Western country in the world. And even the so-called supportive troops in the US see plenty of combat these days, and many female soldiers have seen plenty of serious action at this day and age, even in the US troops who still follow the stone-aged decrees from the Congress.

[The Angry One]

Zyrious wrote...

Seeing as how the genetic therapy didnt make Fem-shep a man-shep, i don't think so. Before therapy, we assume their training is identical. So far, man shep is stronger than femshep. Through gene-therapy, their base strength is increased by, let's say 20%. Since Femshep's base strength is weaker than Manshep's, then femshep will remain weaker than manshep.

Yes let's assume a linear curve and not that perhaps there are limits before muscle mass and strength becomes a detriment.

As far as women being "Every bit as capable as men", in some area's perhaps, in other area's...there is a reason the military bars all women from combat oriented positions in the United States. As far as "Pushing themselves extra", we're assuming femshep and manshep have an identical history, and that femshep wasnt doing an extra 100 pushups every day while manshep was eating hamburgers at the state fair.

Yeah, it's called sexism. Israel has no such policies.

[Darkened Dragon]

Alright I need to drop my 2 cents in on this one, even though its troll bait so I'm only gonna reply once. As a male who has seen a hellova lot, studied martial arts, and had some anatomical and physiological schooling.



First point: While structurally men have more muscular mass than women, there are a lot more chemical aspects that women have over men to compensate the difference, not to mention their muscular fibers are more tightly formed as well. You want proof, threaten a loving mother's child that is smaller than you are. You will see just how fast the chemical called adrenalin will outdo any physical strength the body naturally has. My own mother has proven that exact point in front of my eyes to a man three times her size. More proof of their chemical build up is childbirth. A man p!sses out a kidney stone most want to crumble but women are made to be able to sum up the strength and such to be able to have a child.



Second Point: When the human body is under duress, when its flight or fight time, the body naturally surges adrenalin as well as a few other chemicals that make them move faster, hit harder, and basically do whatever it takes to survive and/or save an other's life if your that type of person. In ME's case this includes knocking back a cybernetically advanced Turian, or hoisting a male human up and carrying them out.



Third Point: (This one I already seen mentioned once) Size and brute strength are nothing in comparison to skill and agility when in a fight. Women, due to their muscular build being more tightly wound, does make them more agile. Combine that with skill and shock value of being clocked by what you feel is inferior, the opponent is gonna be knocked back and caught off guard.



As to wrap up, dude you have a lot to learn if you think a femshep can't do what a male shep does. Maybe too many horror movies where the damsel in distress can't hurt the psychopathic killer befuddled your common sense.



Oh and one more bit of FYI for ya OP, play through ME1 again and pay attention to the bits on genetics and how the altering of such is done, so long as it doesn't alien traits to the child being born. That alone can allow for women being the same physical strength as men.