121 réponses à ce sujet

[ccconda]

Why did Bioware decide to make the player reload the thermal clips?

When playing Mass Effect 1, I read that the ammo was described as a block of steel, and the gun would chip off bits and propel them out of the gun with a mass effect field. When I first read that, I wondered "doesn't the ammo block ever run out, and shouldnt we need to insert a new ammo block in this case?"

If Bioware wanted a reload system so badly, why didn't they just have the AMMO BLOCKS run out of ammo, and have the player pick up scattered ammo blocks instead of scattered heat clips? This would explain why certain guns run out of ammo faster - because they chip off more of an ammo block (or larger pieces, like with snipers) than other guns, like SMGs.

As it stands, thermal clips make no sense because certain guns have different ammo capacities. And you can run around with 1 more bullet left in your SMGs clip for 20 minutes, but once you fire that one bullet, the gun's thermal clip somehow overheats and you gotta insert a new one. Makes no sense, and everyone knows this. Yeah it's not a big deal, I prefer having an ammo system but thermal clips don't make sense as an ammo mechanic.

Ammo blocks are still in each of these guns, and don't have an unlimited amount of ammo in them, so logically Bioware could've simply made these the reason why the player needs to reload, and not the thermal clips. By reloading your ammo blocks, the guns would work just like normal guns and there would'nt be any strange lore-breaking weirdness behind it.

[MyChemicalBromance]

You should read a little more. It takes forever to use up a block.



Canon-wise, thermals make more sense than blocks.

[Daeion]

I believe it's said somewhere that you can get 4000 shots out of a typical block.

That being said, it's still stupid that your gun can't cool down on its own after not being used for a little bit.

Modifié par Daeion, 02 mars 2010 - 10:12 .

[frokenscheim]

Good points, although the idea with ammo blocks was that they held so much ammo(because the projectiles were so small) that you could fire many thousands of shots before needing to replace them.

What I kept wondering was, why don't weapons include a back up cooling system like the ME1 guns, so that when you run out of thermal clips your guns aren't completely useless?



But we're just geeking here, the fact is BW decided reloading was an important part of the experience, gameplay-wise, and from there did what they could to make the change work lore-wise.

[generic username]

I just think of thermal clips as a gameplay mechanic, problem solved.

[Lambu1]

never has there been a more deserving time for this than now:

[SentinelBorg]

Daeion wrote...

I believe it's said somewhere that you can get 4000 shots out of a typical block.

That being said, it's still stupid that your gun can't cool down on its own after not being used for a little bit.

The funny thing it, such a hybrid mode was in the earlier versions of the game and can still be activated with some ini tweaks. That will allow you to shoot your gun even without a thermal clip, but it will overheat after a few shots.

[ccconda]

They could have simply made the ammo blocks SMALLER, rather than create the THERMAL CLIP system which makes no sense heat wise or mechanic wise.

I like reloading, its fun, but when I pick up a 'thermal' clip i just pretend like it's ammo (after all, they give you ammunition, and after that ammunition is worn out after any period of time, you must reload the clip).

Bioware simply could've scrapped that "4000 bullets" idea, rather than create the convoluted "thermal clip" codex entry.
"While these new ammo blocks contain only a fraction of the capacity that pre-invasion ammo blocks contained, these new ammo blocks are made entirely of frictionless materials which pack a much greater punch. The frictionless design negates the need to cool down the chamber, allowing soldiers to continue firing and reloading when needed, improving the performance of armed units in high pressure situations. The increased power of each shot has also helped armed forces maintain their position in battle against multiple defense types."

Or whatever. You get it - less ammo per block = more powerful ammo per bullet. Makes sense, logical.

And nice face, stealing it.

Modifié par ccconda, 02 mars 2010 - 10:49 .

[Daeion]

SentinelBorg wrote...

Daeion wrote...

I believe it's said somewhere that you can get 4000 shots out of a typical block.

That being said, it's still stupid that your gun can't cool down on its own after not being used for a little bit.

The funny thing it, such a hybrid mode was in the earlier versions of the game and can still be activated with some ini tweaks. That will allow you to shoot your gun even without a thermal clip, but it will overheat after a few shots.

Yeah I've seen the mod for it but I'm not realy into messing around with game files.

[mcsupersport]

Why not just state that the new guns are of bigger caliber, and thus use up the ammo block quicker, making reloading now necessary. The trade off was more damage less shots, and the decision on ammo capacity was decided to allow as many shots as you could before overheat from a single clip/block. That way you cover the overheat issue, and the reload issue in one neat package. Otherwise the time it takes to reload is your cooldown period, and the guns hit harder so that is why they changed.

[The_Awesome_Sloth]

why not bullet cubes? or ammunition squares?....

Modifié par The_Awesome_Sloth, 02 mars 2010 - 11:27 .

[Akka le Vil]

SentinelBorg wrote...

The funny thing it, such a hybrid mode was in the earlier versions of the game and can still be activated with some ini tweaks. That will allow you to shoot your gun even without a thermal clip, but it will overheat after a few shots.

I wonder why they didn't keep it. It makes much more sense than the absurd "I didn't use my gun for twenty minutes but it just hasn't cooled off !", and is more interesting gameplay-wise.

[ccconda]

mcsupersport wrote...

Why not just state that the new guns are of bigger caliber, and thus use up the ammo block quicker, making reloading now necessary. The trade off was more damage less shots, and the decision on ammo capacity was decided to allow as many shots as you could before overheat from a single clip/block. That way you cover the overheat issue, and the reload issue in one neat package. Otherwise the time it takes to reload is your cooldown period, and the guns hit harder so that is why they changed.

Yeah exactly! They said the guns are more awesome now, but heat up real fast so you gotta isntert new thermal clips. That's pretty much the excuse behind thermal clips. They could've replaced "thermal clips" with "ammo blocks", and they would've been staying within ME1's canon, and they would've be breaking the laws of grade 3 physics. 

[CmdrFenix83]

Daeion wrote...

I believe it's said somewhere that you can get 4000 shots out of a typical block.

That being said, it's still stupid that your gun can't cool down on its own after not being used for a little bit.

Don't the Thermal clips work by consuming coolant of some sort? At which point, it wouldn't matter if you waited, the clip still only had X amount of coolant left anyway.  Might have pulled that explanation out of my bum, but it makes sense.

Edit:  It doesn't say for sure, but it seems what they're going for.

Mass Effect Wiki

Thermal clips hold a store of disposable heat sinks universal to all
small arms. Instead of waiting for an overheated weapon to cool down,
you can simply eject the spent heat sink and the clip feeds in a new
one. This allows for a greater sustained rate of fire and more numerous
impacts on targets down range.

Modifié par CmdrFenix83, 02 mars 2010 - 11:50 .

[ExtremeOne]

Thermal clips are better

[SaintlPatrick]

ccconda wrote...

They could have simply made the ammo blocks SMALLER, rather than create the THERMAL CLIP system which makes no sense heat wise or mechanic wise.

I like reloading, its fun, but when I pick up a 'thermal' clip i just pretend like it's ammo (after all, they give you ammunition, and after that ammunition is worn out after any period of time, you must reload the clip).

Bioware simply could've scrapped that "4000 bullets" idea, rather than create the convoluted "thermal clip" codex entry.
"While these new ammo blocks contain only a fraction of the capacity that pre-invasion ammo blocks contained, these new ammo blocks are made entirely of frictionless materials which pack a much greater punch. The frictionless design negates the need to cool down the chamber, allowing soldiers to continue firing and reloading when needed, improving the performance of armed units in high pressure situations. The increased power of each shot has also helped armed forces maintain their position in battle against multiple defense types."

Or whatever. You get it - less ammo per block = more powerful ammo per bullet. Makes sense, logical.

And nice face, stealing it.

I was thinking something along these lines too.

"After Sovereign's attack on the Citadel, blah blah blah, studied Reaper shield technology to vastly increase shield strength.  As a result, the smaller slugs shaved off became insufficient to penetrate shielding, so the internal VI shaves off larger pieces, making ammo conservation an issue once again."

Of course, the hole with this is that the previous codex says that bullet "damage" is still limited by recoil.  So, a smaller bullet accelerated much faster would do the same damage, but they were never accelerated that fast because of the recoil.  Increasing the mass of the bullet would get basically the same effect.

You're also left wondering why Geth weapons work like that too.

Modifié par SaintlPatrick, 02 mars 2010 - 11:44 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

A few questions.



What is this ammo block made out of? Steel, tungsten? And there is some sort of laser or something within the gun that cuts off pieces of the block in milliseconds?



Why not just use that damn laser as a weapon.

[ccconda]

In ME1 it was simply "toss a chunk of metal in gun, and it's ammo"



If they just placed ammo in the ME2 world, nobody would ask questions. It made sense. Heck, ammo could've been lying around in ME1 after you run out, but it was implied you had backup ammo blocks and even just scrap metal. In ME2, you actually have to pick up the ammo blocks rather than have the game assume shepard is picking them up along the way.

[bstrothe]

The thing that irks me about the thermal clip is you are not using them as "universally" as the codex claims. If I use up the 10 for my sniper rifle, I want to take the extra from my shot-gun or whatever.

You can BS a reason like "thermal signatures" don't match different types of weapons, but that makes even less sense then just retconning ammo back into the galaxy, ignoring ME1's innovation.

[kregano]

bstrothe wrote...

The thing that irks me about the thermal clip is you are not using them as "universally" as the codex claims. If I use up the 10 for my sniper rifle, I want to take the extra from my shot-gun or whatever.

You can BS a reason like "thermal signatures" don't match different types of weapons, but that makes even less sense then just retconning ammo back into the galaxy, ignoring ME1's innovation.

I took it more as universal for each type of gun, since it wouldn't make sense for those huge long clips you pick up for rifles to fit into a pistol or SMG due to size constraints.

[Lambu1]

bstrothe wrote...

The thing that irks me about the thermal clip is you are not using them as "universally" as the codex claims. If I use up the 10 for my sniper rifle, I want to take the extra from my shot-gun or whatever.

You can BS a reason like "thermal signatures" don't match different types of weapons, but that makes even less sense then just retconning ammo back into the galaxy, ignoring ME1's innovation.

actually they are used universally,  if you'll notice that everytime you pick up a thermal clip, every weapon get refilled a certain amount.  as for "swapping" between guns, well that just doesn't make gameplay sense.  do you really want to use up all you ammo sniping only to be left with nothing for close range.  there have been quite a few games that have tried this and failed miserably.  example, in MW2 i had two guns that used the same ammo, and boy was it a pain in the butt  when i got pinned down and ran out on the first gun only to find out the other gun was empty too.

Modifié par Lambu1, 03 mars 2010 - 12:10 .

[Vaenier]

Why do we use such little pellets of metal as bullets? I want bigger bullets! something that actually has some kick to it.

[Orfinn]

A hybrid of the cool down from ME 1 and the thermal clips from ME 2 would make most happy.

The thermal clips should be less often found and if you dont have enough, you have to wait a REASONABLE amount of time to have your gun cool down. Something along those lines. This would satisfy both the heated canon heads around here and the trigger happy ammo munchers.



Unlimited ammo for all!

[The_Awesome_Sloth]

bstrothe wrote...

The thing that irks me about the thermal clip is you are not using them as "universally" as the codex claims. If I use up the 10 for my sniper rifle, I want to take the extra from my shot-gun or whatever.

**** THAT!

[Missouri Tigers]

generic username wrote...

I just think of thermal clips as a gameplay mechanic, problem solved.

Yeah, seriously.  You don't need to have a perfect storyline explanation for every little thing in the game that makes it better to play.